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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [exerciseaddict] [ In reply to ]
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exerciseaddict wrote:
Remember the waiver we agree to before we're allowed to sign up and never read? Here's a piece of it:

- I am voluntarily participating with knowledge of the risks. Therefore, I assume and accept full responsibility for myself, for the inherent and other risks (both known and unknown) of the activities, and for any injury, damage, death or other loss I may suffer, resulting from those risks, including the risk of my, a co-participant’s, and/or a third party’s negligence or intentional or other misconduct, or any of the Released Parties’ negligence.

Sorry for the loss you suffered, but they're not responsible.

One cannot waive one's right to claim damages due to negligence. Sorry.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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Don't race anything you won't risk parting with. Stuff gets lost, stuff gets broken, cost of doing business.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [Gary Mc] [ In reply to ]
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I've served on numerous race committees and as transition coordinator at some large races.

One of the things that we always try to do is communicate with the RD about any competitors who have abandoned the race out on the course and try to keep their gear together for family or a friend to pick up later. Obviously safeguarding bikes is a particular focus. Even with our best efforts, with the scattering of gear in a typical transition area you can't guarantee that you'll get everything, especially if there is no label or identification on the article.

That being said, I'm always amazed at the volume of abandoned gear we accumulate after a race. Not only the small stuff you would expect like goggles, swim caps, sunglasses, etc., but stuff like wetsuits, shoes, clothing, aerohelmets, and even bike wheels. Then the best part is when someone calls the RD a couple of weeks later asking if we have their stuff and can we send it to them?

I feel sorry for the OP losing their wetsuit, but stuff happens sometimes and things get "lost". Still, the RD needs the feedback about what happened to hopefully prevent similar recurrence in the future. A civil dialog between the OP and the RD would seem to me to be the best way to resolve the situation. Ranting on a public forum probably isn't going to accomplish very much.

Mark
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [japarker24] [ In reply to ]
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Don't race with anything you can't afford to lose or replace.... or carry insurance with a deductible you can afford, to hedge yourself.

I wish I could afford a $700 wetsuit. I'm happy scavenging for a pro's old wetsuit from before he changed sponsors to replace my 17 year old sleeveless suit that doesn't fit all that great. When the race management goofed at Kansas 70.3 and brought all the transition stuff form T1 to T2 in a dozen or so giant plastic bags bags kind sort of organized by bib number range (yes they did this), I waded through piles of $400+ B70 & TYR's, looking for my Aquaman museum piece. I joked, that maybe this was a perfect opportunity to upgrade. At least mine was easy to find.

You won't see a dime. I think there's also a waiver and signs posted that tell WTC is not responsible for lost items. Someone would need to actually witness the item being taken away or catch them with it away from the race site.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
exerciseaddict wrote:
Remember the waiver we agree to before we're allowed to sign up and never read? Here's a piece of it:

- I am voluntarily participating with knowledge of the risks. Therefore, I assume and accept full responsibility for myself, for the inherent and other risks (both known and unknown) of the activities, and for any injury, damage, death or other loss I may suffer, resulting from those risks, including the risk of my, a co-participant’s, and/or a third party’s negligence or intentional or other misconduct, or any of the Released Parties’ negligence.

Sorry for the loss you suffered, but they're not responsible.


One cannot waive one's right to claim damages due to negligence. Sorry.


Actually you can depending on what the state law allows. A waiver of intentional conduct is not likely to be enforced however. In California you can't waive gross negligence but you can waive ordinary negligence. Assuming NY law applies I'd bet it is similar
Last edited by: ChrisM: Jul 29, 14 8:00
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM wrote:
klehner wrote:
exerciseaddict wrote:
Remember the waiver we agree to before we're allowed to sign up and never read? Here's a piece of it:

- I am voluntarily participating with knowledge of the risks. Therefore, I assume and accept full responsibility for myself, for the inherent and other risks (both known and unknown) of the activities, and for any injury, damage, death or other loss I may suffer, resulting from those risks, including the risk of my, a co-participant’s, and/or a third party’s negligence or intentional or other misconduct, or any of the Released Parties’ negligence.

Sorry for the loss you suffered, but they're not responsible.


One cannot waive one's right to claim damages due to negligence. Sorry.


Actually you can depending on what the state law allows. A waiver of intentional conduct is not likely to be enforced however. In California you can't waive gross negligence but you can waive ordinary negligence. Assuming NY law applies I'd bet it is similar

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, either.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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:). As to the op's question. It sucks to lose a piece of expensive gear, hopefully he gets it back. But in a race the size of an IM my philosophy is that anything I hand off to someone else I take the risk I won't see it again. If it's a $700 wetsuit that I absolutely cannot afford to lose/ replace I put it in the bag myself.

Even then it's not guaranteed. Who knows, maybe the volunteer got it in the bag but someone else stole it?
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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UKINNY wrote:
I made it through T1 , I am putting my bike gear on and the volunteer says, as he has done last year, leave it where it is , I will take care of it so I go and jump on the bike

I checked all lost and found

They are liable for me, ridiculous to say otherwise for me

it s your responsability to put all your gear in your swim bag after the swim. It dosnt matter what a VOLUNTEER tell you...they are no professional and they do there dam best.
WTC isnt on the hook for that one...you are.... It suck, but we all know it s our responsability to put gears in the bag...if you let someone else do it, it s a your own risk.

I personally take the risk everytime and never put my gear in the bag.... but i m aware it s a risk of mistake happening...

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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UKINNY wrote:
so i end up in the med tent yesterday with hyperthemia

they hand me my bike and run gear but at the time i am laid on a bed freezing my nuts off so i don't realize there is not wetsuit in my bag

Hyperthermia - Too much heat.
Hypothermia - Too little heat/too much cold.

(Basically).

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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Basic question- was your wetsuit labeled with your name or bib number? It's organized chaos in an Ironman changing tent and things do get left behind, but if your name or number is on anything you want back, there's an excellent chance of it getting into your bag once things calm down on raceday. The volunteers do everything they can to make sure athletes get all their gear back, including walking misplaced gear back to the gear bag area and putting it into the bag after the racers leave for the bike.

And wetsuits disappear all the time at races of all distances- I've heard plenty of stories of wetsuits disappearing from next to people's bikes in regular transition areas.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [oceanswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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I have worked the change tent for a couple of IMs for both T1 and T2 as well completed 4 IMs.

T1 is the most chaotic by far as majority of athletes come in withing a 15' window. Stuff gets left, misplaced, and bags get tossed into the pile to be put back. The volume of stuff and bags is overwhelming. For the most part the volunteers do a great job. But on the floor can be piles of many peoples stuff that can be easily confused even when the athletes are still sitting there.

One year they ran out of sunscreen to put on athletes in T2 and we started scavenging sunscreen from athletes bags.

Volunteers do the best they can for nothing other than to improve your race day and make your race a bit easier. Who know where the wetsuit went missing? Someone could have taken it out of your bag even if the volunteer put it in it.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
UKINNY wrote:
so i end up in the med tent yesterday with hyperthemia

they hand me my bike and run gear but at the time i am laid on a bed freezing my nuts off so i don't realize there is not wetsuit in my bag


Hyperthermia - Too much heat.
Hypothermia - Too little heat/too much cold.

(Basically).

John

thanks john, that is really helpful, honestly it is :)
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
UKINNY wrote:
I made it through T1 , I am putting my bike gear on and the volunteer says, as he has done last year, leave it where it is , I will take care of it so I go and jump on the bike

I checked all lost and found

They are liable for me, ridiculous to say otherwise for me


it s your responsability to put all your gear in your swim bag after the swim. It dosnt matter what a VOLUNTEER tell you...they are no professional and they do there dam best.
WTC isnt on the hook for that one...you are.... It suck, but we all know it s our responsability to put gears in the bag...if you let someone else do it, it s a your own risk.

I personally take the risk everytime and never put my gear in the bag.... but i m aware it s a risk of mistake happening...


i won't be making the same mistake again

summing up cost of my weekend:

4 nights accommodation for a swim and 8 mile bike ride

lost swim suit

one extortionate entry fee

lost swim suit and new goggles

zipper on pearl Iz speed suit broken (hoping for a refund there), clearly you should not swim in that

all in all, a truly wonderful weekend ! when is the next one, sign me up now
Last edited by: UKINNY: Jul 29, 14 9:36
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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UKINNY wrote:
I made it through T1 , I am putting my bike gear on and the volunteer says, as he has done last year, leave it where it is , I will take care of it so I go and jump on the bike

I checked all lost and found

They are liable for me, ridiculous to say otherwise for me


Here's ridiculous. You decide NOT to be responsible for putting your gear in your T1 bag. Then feel WTC is liable because a volunteer didn't pack ALL of your items. You consciously made that choice because you felt you had a chance to KQ.

YOU are responsible for having all your gear, getting all of your gear into transition, changing your gear throughout the day, your hydration and nutrition and retrieving your gear. If you accept an offer of assistance to mitigate handling your own responsibilities, well, that is a risk you assume.

Just like with the volunteer wetsuit strippers. You have a choice to use them at your risk or not to use them. If they rip your wetsuit getting it off or yank your knee out of socket, that is on you. If you decide that risk is unacceptable to you then by all means remove your wetsuit yourself.

I always put my stuff in my bag. Transitions are cluttered and confusing and it is darn hard to tell whose stuff is whose. Sounds like you expected valet service.
Last edited by: CPA_Triathlete: Jul 29, 14 10:24
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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Well what you think they should morally be liable for, and what they think they are legally liable for, are two vastly different things.

Someone at WTC may take pity on you and compensate you to keep you happy, but the odds of that are slim. But they aren't legally liable and are under no obligation to compensate you. Basically you left your wetsuit behind. That's what happened.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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UKINNY wrote:
who trains the volunteers ?


Have you ever volunteered at a WTC event? I have. Training? Uh, virtually none. They assign very simple tasks, like provide security in T1. They tell you to make sure only participants enter. There is no need for elaborate training.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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This.

Quote:
they are responsible for putting my stuff in bags - thats what they tell us


You are responsible for your shit. Not them, not the volunteers.

I have done 14 Ironmans, and every time I have entrusted the volunteers to put my stuff back in my bag as I run off to do my thing. If something was missing I would be upset, frustrated and pour through the lost and found, but in the end, it's my choice to save 30 seconds by not putting my stuff back in my bag.

At Kansas - that's a slightly different situation as they deviated from what they had published, but I had the foresight to label my stuff, which made it easy to find.


Edit: I see jonnyo more or less said what I said, before I said it :)
Last edited by: sentania: Jul 29, 14 10:16
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [sentania] [ In reply to ]
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My wife walked right into transition and grabbed my bags and bike. When exiting she asked a volunteer if she needed to check out or show them the ticket, said they didn't really pay much attention.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [CPA_Triathlete] [ In reply to ]
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CPA_Triathlete wrote:
UKINNY wrote:
I made it through T1 , I am putting my bike gear on and the volunteer says, as he has done last year, leave it where it is , I will take care of it so I go and jump on the bike

I checked all lost and found

They are liable for me, ridiculous to say otherwise for me


Here's ridiculous. You decide NOT to be responsible for putting your gear in your T1 bag. Then feel WTC is liable because a volunteer didn't pack ALL of your items. You consciously made that choice because you felt you had a chance to KQ.

I always put my stuff in my bag. Transitions are cluttered and confusing and it is darn hard to tell whose stuff is whose. Sounds like you expected valet service.

course i did not expect valet service, don't be an arse - i get the message however, i was pissed off yesterday hence i was a little blinkered in my responses

i am sure i won't be the last to do this

i have a cooler head today

lesson learned
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [dtaylor] [ In reply to ]
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dtaylor wrote:
My wife walked right into transition and grabbed my bags and bike. When exiting she asked a volunteer if she needed to check out or show them the ticket, said they didn't really pay much attention.

I have seen loose transition security in a couple of local races. That is an exception rather than a rule though. Usually it's pretty tight even at local races. They want to see body markings and/or bib match the bike number, or they want to see the ticket. I have seen people get turned around, or asked to show ID, because their body markings rubbed away. One local race has a huge hired goon guy in a security uniform to watch over transition exit. It was obvious he was no volunteer.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [UKINNY] [ In reply to ]
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The same thing happened to me last year at IMPL, only they lost my whole T1 bag and contents. Brand new Zoot Prophet wetsuit, googles and swimcap. They never found it, I checked lost and found a few times. I didn't even bother to try to get them to replace it. But had a good race, so I wasn't as pissed off as you. I wished they had lost my T2 bag because I was looking for an excuse to get a new a aero helmet.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [Bifff] [ In reply to ]
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some of you people have shit for brains.

don't race with anything you can't afford to lose? that has to be the dumbest most pompous statement i have ever heard. maybe you shouldn't drive a car you can't afford to lose, maybe you shouldn't live in a house you can't afford to have burnt down.

who cares what his stuff costs. the fact is that it was lost or stolen at a race where the race is entrusted ensure the safety (from theft) of people's belonging.

for starters, my WHOLE family was in t1 in 2011. i finished the swim 30 mins ahead of schedule and my mother panicked and thought i drowned. my whole family (mother, sister, aunt and FIVE cousins) were in transition running around looking for me and checking to see if my transition bags were still there. we still joke about it these days. they had absolutely ZERO difficulty getting in there.

they also were able to retrieve my transition bags afterwards with no tags (i got my bike myself).

the reality is that we don't know what happened to the wetsuit. for all we know it was placed (hung) on top of the transition bags (that's how mine was) and someone snagged it.

i have complete sympathy for this guy. a volunteer said don't worry about it and that he would pack things up for him. i've done over 20 traithlons and i've always entrusted these amazing volunteers to do the task they told me they would do. it's like going to a club and giving your coat over to coat check and they lose it. same difference. volunteers in T1 is a service provided by the wtc.

you're gonna get screwed, it's just too bad.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
maybe you shouldn't drive a car you can't afford to lose, maybe you shouldn't live in a house you can't afford to have burnt down.

Hmmm. I have insurance to protect me against both of those potential occurrences. Problem solved.
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
some of you people have shit for brains.

don't race with anything you can't afford to lose? that has to be the dumbest most pompous statement i have ever heard. maybe you shouldn't drive a car you can't afford to lose, maybe you shouldn't live in a house you can't afford to have burnt down.

who cares what his stuff costs. the fact is that it was lost or stolen at a race where the race is entrusted ensure the safety (from theft) of people's belonging.

for starters, my WHOLE family was in t1 in 2011. i finished the swim 30 mins ahead of schedule and my mother panicked and thought i drowned. my whole family (mother, sister, aunt and FIVE cousins) were in transition running around looking for me and checking to see if my transition bags were still there. we still joke about it these days. they had absolutely ZERO difficulty getting in there.

they also were able to retrieve my transition bags afterwards with no tags (i got my bike myself).

the reality is that we don't know what happened to the wetsuit. for all we know it was placed (hung) on top of the transition bags (that's how mine was) and someone snagged it.

i have complete sympathy for this guy. a volunteer said don't worry about it and that he would pack things up for him. i've done over 20 traithlons and i've always entrusted these amazing volunteers to do the task they told me they would do. it's like going to a club and giving your coat over to coat check and they lose it. same difference. volunteers in T1 is a service provided by the wtc.

you're gonna get screwed, it's just too bad.


What does your race in 2011 have to do with this situation? People are merely pointing out that we all run the risk of having things lost or stolen when we race. Fortunately, it's never happened to the vast majority of us. I think WTC makes it pretty clear that they are not responsible for this stuff and we agree to all of that legal shit when we sign up. On Sunday at IM Canada, T1 was so full that some guys were changing outside the tent. A volunteer told me that he would take care of my stuff but I didn't want to risk it so I put everything in the bag myself. If I hadn't, anything that got lost would have been on me. I have some sympathy for the guy but I don't think anyone owes him anything if his wetsuit is never returned.
Last edited by: cjbruin: Jul 29, 14 15:43
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Re: lost wetsuit IMLP - WTC policy ? [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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ahhchon wrote:
some of you people have shit for brains.

Or just a different opinion than yours. There are facts and then there are opinions. Fact is WTC is not legally liable for a lost wetsuit. Try suing them and see what you get. Are they morally obligated to compensate for a lost wetsuit? That's an opinion and everyone's got one.

People calling those with different opinions "shit for brains"? Those people have shit for brains....
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