Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [mercuryvapor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just figured the Vectors were being sent in for a refurbished unit. Garmin is usually pretty quick on the turnaround, but maybe they are held up in customs.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [mercuryvapor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mercuryvapor wrote:
I am a former user of the Vectors. I used them for a few weeks and I could never get them to give me consistent readings. I installed them numerous times exactly as they said with the tools they recommended. My baseline was using a Computrainer and Wahoo Kickr. My readings were inconsistent by a significant margin. I'm less emotional about it now , but I was a very pissed off customer.

I ended up getting a Quarq Riken and couldn't be happier. My readings are extremely close +/- 3 watts compared to my Computrainer and Kickr.

Is a Quarq really that far from an SRM? I know Riken doesn't have the same features, but the RED model seems pretty close. SRM just seems like over-kill for the AG athlete (given the price).

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [spider] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spider wrote:
I have a hard time believing that a professional cycling team would use a completely different power meter for training as they do for racing

I don't. Most professional cycling teams and/or cyclists simply just aren't all that tech savvy, but instead are very "old school" in their thinking. Then factor in the need for sponsorship $$, and the reasoning behind many equipment choices become much obvious.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [v0coder] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
v0coder wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:

As for Stages, I've been told by a couple of Team Sky rider's coaches that they are only used for show (i.e., in races) - for training, it is still SRMs.

Hey, I'm a fan of your book. But I can tell you that that is BS. They may have used both at the same time at times for comparison purposes.

Just going by what I've been told by the people crunching the numbers.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Interesting Andy!

I'd guess they could do that, but why deal with different +/- values or inconsistency?

We at FasCat have done testing with PT / Stages and SRM on the same bike numerous times, but just don't see a pro team doing that when they are striving for such accuracy and watts (Sky).

Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [mercuryvapor] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So far, I've been very happy with my Vector. Matches my Kickr within a watt or 2. My only problem is that I get dropouts when using my 910. Fortunately no dropouts or very few when using my 510 which is the more important factor anyway. I bought the Vector because I wanted to switch between my 3 bikes. I've only done 3 swaps between 2 of the bikes as I was scared of breaking the pods, but so far everything has gone well. My Tri bike uses 650 wheels and my road bike(s) has 700 wheels so I really wanted something easy to switch.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [chrica04] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chrica04 wrote:
Interesting Andy!

I'd guess they could do that, but why deal with different +/- values or inconsistency?

$$, plus the opportunity to have input into the development of Stages' dual-sided powermeter.
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Jul 9, 14 9:53
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You'd think that the face Team Garmin's headquarters is literally across the highway from Stages (maybe 1/2 mile as the crow flies)...that if Garmin steps out, they'd pick up Stages as a power meter sponsor. I mean...they're right there & they could walk across the highway. Great opp for pro team research on product & whatever else. Seems like a marriage that would be logical.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [chrica04] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chrica04 wrote:
We at FasCat have done testing with PT / Stages and SRM on the same bike numerous times

What kind of testing have you done? How do you measure differences or congruence?
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew Coggan wrote:
chrica04 wrote:
Interesting Andy!

I'd guess they could do that, but why deal with different +/- values or inconsistency?

$$, plus the opportunity to have input into the development of Stages' dual-sided powermeter.

Geez I hadn't thought of that. But, nothing to stop them from putting a gauge on each crank arm. Drop the "combined" price a bit and it is still cheaper than the Vectors. Then you get power into each arm.

Although, I looking at power numbers between my Computrainer and Stages they are pretty much the same, once I do a roll down on the Computrainer that is. At this point though, for the average (or sub-average) AGer, I don't see a requirement to go beyond what is available with Stages.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [BCDon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"...a gauge on each crank arm."

Isn't that what Pioneer did?
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [RChung] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nothing sophisticated, just a bunch of rides with some efforts and Multi File Ride Analysis to see difference in readings of sprints / efforts, etc.

A lot of the time, Stages and SRM were fairly spot on. Quarq was a bit more sporadic, and PowerTap was consistently lower (drive train efficiencies).

Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [karlw2000] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
karlw2000 wrote:
So far, I've been very happy with my Vector. Matches my Kickr within a watt or 2. My only problem is that I get dropouts when using my 910. Fortunately no dropouts or very few when using my 510 which is the more important factor anyway. I bought the Vector because I wanted to switch between my 3 bikes. I've only done 3 swaps between 2 of the bikes as I was scared of breaking the pods, but so far everything has gone well. My Tri bike uses 650 wheels and my road bike(s) has 700 wheels so I really wanted something easy to switch.

I have only a 910 and have dropout problems constantly. Only on the road though, for whatever reason it works fine on the trainer

Me: https://carnivoreendurance.blogspot.com/...ever-comes-next.html

Latest: Colorectal Cancer is in the News Again. Don't Blame Red Meat
https://carnivoreendurance.blogspot.com/...news-again-dont.html
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [Birdmantris] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
We have seen that with the Stages and Vectors with the Garmin 910XT. We think that the radio transmitter location of the watch just isn't strong enough to pick up the signal down in the pedal/crank area.

Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [buzz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
interesting that the Garmin stock is getting destroyed today on an analyst down grade.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [amos] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
amos wrote:
"...a gauge on each crank arm."


Isn't that what Pioneer did?


or!! or!!
a gauge on the crank spider!!

I take it you're not a big fan of Stages. lol

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [TheGupster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TheGupster wrote:

I take it you're not a big fan of Stages. lol

Just so many goofy solution to this problem when rear hub and crank spider are so (comparatively) simple and effective.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [chrica04] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chrica04 wrote:
Team Sky on Stages, and when I toured the Stages Factory, they make sure each PM is within 1% accuracy before sending to the team and rider. Will never run another powermeter myself!

As for SRM on Garmin, it's because the Vectors are FUBAR.

We coach a pro on the Garmin team, and his power files are all over the place. It's either 50% high or low. Not even the Garmin mechanics know what they are doing. Wonder if it has anything to do with Garmin pulling it's sponsorship next year????

If you're looking at getting Vectors, just get a two Stages for two bikes if you need different crank arms!

Hey, it's great they calibrate their strain gages to 1% accuracy, but I fail to see how that fixes their inability to consistently measure total power output because of the left-only issue.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [sinkinswimmer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sinkinswimmer wrote:
interesting that the Garmin stock is getting destroyed today on an analyst down grade.

You should never listen to a sell-side analyst.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jackmott wrote:
TheGupster wrote:


I take it you're not a big fan of Stages. lol


Just so many goofy solution to this problem when rear hub and crank spider are so (comparatively) simple and effective.

It's hard to market "innovation" when using the same method as your competitors. I imagine that's the real problem here.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [buzz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My Vectors have been flawless since installation and are easy to move between bikes. All that is needed is a torque wrench. Nothing special.
Last edited by: Lederman: Jul 9, 14 13:51
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [chrica04] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When I am on my aero bars and my 910 is turned to the inside of my wrist, it is basically RIGHT next to my 510 that is mounted between the aero bars. My 510 won't have any dropouts, but the 910 does.

My 910 does pick up my HRM and even the spinning magnetless speed sensor that is further away from the watch than the spinning Vector so I doubt location is the problem.


chrica04 wrote:
We have seen that with the Stages and Vectors with the Garmin 910XT. We think that the radio transmitter location of the watch just isn't strong enough to pick up the signal down in the pedal/crank area.
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [karlw2000] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Could also just be the strength. Just as you said, the 510 works perfectly.

We had an athlete with a 910XT, always had the dropouts, switched to 510, and works flawlessly on TT bike.

Is the firmware currently up to date? Could see if that helps.

Carson Christen
Sport Scientist / Coach
Torden Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Anyone know why Garmin pro team is not using the vector? [chrica04] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am one of those who always gets the latest firmware. Besides, I had to in order to support the Vector.

Since I have the 510, I'm not really that concerned, but I do think it would be nice for those who just have a 910.


chrica04 wrote:
Could also just be the strength. Just as you said, the 510 works perfectly.

We had an athlete with a 910XT, always had the dropouts, switched to 510, and works flawlessly on TT bike.

Is the firmware currently up to date? Could see if that helps.
Quote Reply

Prev Next