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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [monty]
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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [smtyrrell99]
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Lyle Alzado ... Need we say more???
"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [smtyrrell99]
[ In reply to ]
Again this is from a tyler interview, but the test showed he had the equivalent of a tablespoon of "foreign" blood mixed with his, which in any case would hardly be a benefit.
Do you think he had a fresh transfusion right before the test?
his doctors surmised that up to 50% of the population could have blood abnormalities at this level.
Again no other riders tested positive! that 50% number is bullshit.
If it did I tend to say let the dude ride, its not like traces of steroids or EPO where having taken it in the past still helps you
Um, blood doping is just like taking EPO, and taking it in the past can help you train harder.
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Do you think he had a fresh transfusion right before the test?
his doctors surmised that up to 50% of the population could have blood abnormalities at this level.
Again no other riders tested positive! that 50% number is bullshit.
If it did I tend to say let the dude ride, its not like traces of steroids or EPO where having taken it in the past still helps you
Um, blood doping is just like taking EPO, and taking it in the past can help you train harder.
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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [mwbyrd]
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For some reason (YET TO BE EXPLAINED), someone decided to re-evaluate TH's A sample AFTER it had been deemed negative
Don't know why, but Tyler isn't banned based on his Oympic test results.
People keep forgetting that the test was only run on (or at least the only published paper on the test) a sample of 25 people
There was a second validation study as well - I dont know how many other people were tested in that one.
TH's main defense is that the test isn't perfect.
Tyler and his supporters like to make general statements like that, but usually dont back it up with specific complaints about the test itself.
People and the media are just focusing on the Chimerism possibility
People focus on it because Tyler is making public statements that not only could he be a chimera, he could be a "Waxing and waning" chimera which would explain why he sometimes has foreign blood, and then later didnt. (Of course the simple exlpanation that he transfused and then stopped doing it after he got caught isn't possible, right?)
I can't explain why two teammates tested positive. The crazier thing is how come no one else has tested positive? Is it possible that TH and Perez were THE ONLY two in the peleton doping this way? Highly unlikely IMO. And as for Perez, if he was doping during the Vuelta last year, he would have been caught then, not two months after the race
I can't believe you're interpreting the facts this way. The reasonable interpretation is that since only Tyler and Perez got nailed, this test insn't rife with false positives like Tyler is claiming! The test may well have false negatives, but that's irrelevant to Tylers case now, isn't it.
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Don't know why, but Tyler isn't banned based on his Oympic test results.
People keep forgetting that the test was only run on (or at least the only published paper on the test) a sample of 25 people
There was a second validation study as well - I dont know how many other people were tested in that one.
TH's main defense is that the test isn't perfect.
Tyler and his supporters like to make general statements like that, but usually dont back it up with specific complaints about the test itself.
People and the media are just focusing on the Chimerism possibility
People focus on it because Tyler is making public statements that not only could he be a chimera, he could be a "Waxing and waning" chimera which would explain why he sometimes has foreign blood, and then later didnt. (Of course the simple exlpanation that he transfused and then stopped doing it after he got caught isn't possible, right?)
I can't explain why two teammates tested positive. The crazier thing is how come no one else has tested positive? Is it possible that TH and Perez were THE ONLY two in the peleton doping this way? Highly unlikely IMO. And as for Perez, if he was doping during the Vuelta last year, he would have been caught then, not two months after the race
I can't believe you're interpreting the facts this way. The reasonable interpretation is that since only Tyler and Perez got nailed, this test insn't rife with false positives like Tyler is claiming! The test may well have false negatives, but that's irrelevant to Tylers case now, isn't it.
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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [mwbyrd]
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You mean there isn't a ready-made chimerism kit test? No kidding.
To suggest that it couldn't be tested for is naive at best, dishonest at worst (not directed at you personally)
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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [jhc]
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Quote:
To add some more spin damage -- Everyone keeps wanted TH to prove why he's innocent, how come WADA/USADA/and UCI aren't going public with their results. Seems to me they could do that and end the case.
I also wonder why the USADA asked for an extension before presenting their case to CAS. I would think if they were 100% sure of the results, they would have been chomping at the bit to present their case to CAS. My thoughts are they aren't 100% sure they will win the appeal that at least they can keep TH out of competion for at least a year.
What's the difference between a false positive and a false negative? Doesn't that mean the athlete is guilty in both cases?
TheBikeRacer.com
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [Spider]
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"You know this to be fact or are you just throwing his name out there."
2+2=4
Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
2+2=4
Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [Spider]
[ In reply to ]
I'd love to be wrong, because I knew and respected the man. It's just that when someone that strong and that apparently healthy dies so young...
And if I were his doctor, I'd try to keep his name clean too.
Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
And if I were his doctor, I'd try to keep his name clean too.
Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [mwbyrd]
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[reply]
I can't explain why two teammates tested positive. The crazier thing is how come no one else has tested positive? Is it possible that TH and Perez were THE ONLY two in the peleton doping this way? Highly unlikely IMO.[/reply]
A possible explaination:
Hamilton and Perez were both blood doping by storing their own blood, collected durng the off-season, then re-infusing that blood closer to competition to increase performance. (They can't test for this type of doping, yet)
The doctor screwed up and accidentally mixed up the blood and injected Hamilton with Perez's and vice versa (the doctor was fired by the team, right?).
That'd explain why two people from the same team both tested positive. It makes Tyler's claim that he'd never knowingly risk his wife's healthy by taking someone else's blood true and leaves the door open that everyone else is doping too, but their doctors are smart enough to label the blood correctly.
I can't explain why two teammates tested positive. The crazier thing is how come no one else has tested positive? Is it possible that TH and Perez were THE ONLY two in the peleton doping this way? Highly unlikely IMO.[/reply]
A possible explaination:
Hamilton and Perez were both blood doping by storing their own blood, collected durng the off-season, then re-infusing that blood closer to competition to increase performance. (They can't test for this type of doping, yet)
The doctor screwed up and accidentally mixed up the blood and injected Hamilton with Perez's and vice versa (the doctor was fired by the team, right?).
That'd explain why two people from the same team both tested positive. It makes Tyler's claim that he'd never knowingly risk his wife's healthy by taking someone else's blood true and leaves the door open that everyone else is doping too, but their doctors are smart enough to label the blood correctly.
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [jhc]
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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [smtyrrell99]
[ In reply to ]
/As to higher HC level in training helping you - I've never heard that before. Certainly you could ride faster or longer in training, but that doesn't guarantee that those benefits will be their at the lower HC level. Its possible that the mental aspect of feeling less strong would be detrimental to a good racing performance./
Did you actually read what you wrote before you hit the send button?? So I dope all year, train my ass off, build more strenght, more endurance, recover better, and then when I stop, let's say a month or two out, I probably get no benifit...Come on now, and a detrimental mental attitude to boot. I think if I'm training faster, longer, and with more recovery, that I'll have a pretty good attitude going into a race... That's why I train up here in the mountains, like so many before me, to get the legal and safe advantage of a high HC%. And no, EPO is not blood doping, they just do the same thing......And by the way, once your HC% is built up, it can last up to two months.
Did you actually read what you wrote before you hit the send button?? So I dope all year, train my ass off, build more strenght, more endurance, recover better, and then when I stop, let's say a month or two out, I probably get no benifit...Come on now, and a detrimental mental attitude to boot. I think if I'm training faster, longer, and with more recovery, that I'll have a pretty good attitude going into a race... That's why I train up here in the mountains, like so many before me, to get the legal and safe advantage of a high HC%. And no, EPO is not blood doping, they just do the same thing......And by the way, once your HC% is built up, it can last up to two months.
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [monty]
[ In reply to ]
Styrrell
Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [smtyrrell99]
[ In reply to ]
That's really the only way that blood doping will help your performance. You can't race if your above 50% HC. You can take EPO in the weeks leading up to a competition to get your HC level up and only traces of EPO will be left by testing time. With blood transfusions yes you have to transfuse close to the testing time.
You can blood dope so that you can train harder...
However Dick Pound has admitted that TH was targeted for blood tests. I would love to know how many riders were given the same test and what level of scrutiny those tests had, but WADA isn't saying.
Can you point me to where he said this?
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You can blood dope so that you can train harder...
However Dick Pound has admitted that TH was targeted for blood tests. I would love to know how many riders were given the same test and what level of scrutiny those tests had, but WADA isn't saying.
Can you point me to where he said this?
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Re: Tyler's suspension compared to Palmeiro's in Sp-Ill: [jhc]
[ In reply to ]
Directly form the arbitration award on page 2.
"On September 11, 2004, at the Vuelta, cycling competition, Mr. Hamilton was targeted for testing at the request of the UCI." It may not have been Dick Pound who did the targeting, but they were specifically looking to test Tyler.
http://www.usantidoping.org/...n%20-%20Hamilton.pdf