I have Conti GP3000s on my training wheels and I love them. The training wheels hanging out to the side make tight turns impossible :)...

Clincher race wheels???

It's pronounnced Tube-U-Lar (Just kidding...I just bought a pair of zipp tubulars and will never go back).



----->Trent

The fastest tire out there is a tubular, not a clincher.

The advantages of tubualars over clinchers are:

1. Much higher flat resistance (depndant on tire selection, but almost all tubulars are much more flat resistant than clinchers by design).
2. Lower rolling resistance.
3. Lighter weight (rim and tire both).
4. Better traction due to better tire deformation (takes less energy to deform the tire).
5. Much faster tire changes should you ever flat in a race.

In my book, the term "clincher race wheels" is an oxymoron. There is no such thing. The first thing that makes wheels "race" wheels is that they are tubulars, not clinchers.

Having said all that, if you already have clinchers, short of selling them on E-Bay and starting over with tubulars (my recommendation) the new Continental Gran Prix Supersonic is a credible attempt at a race specific clincher as are the Continental Force and Attack front/rear specific tire combination.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

vittoria corsa cx evo. as close to a tubular you'll get..and easy to install. after 20 years of racing on tubs i might race on these this year. damn, did i just say that?

Well, I figured someone would say just what you did but I already have the clincher front H3 (newbie mistake) so what do you think about these new Tufo clincher-tubular tires?

DC Pattie

<<Of course puncture resistance is very, very important! Also any tube recommendations for a race wheel set? >>

I have had really good luck with Conti tires. The plain old Grand Prix, which are discontinued I believe, and the GP3000's. I spend the extra coin for Schwable(sp?) innertubes, but I like the little pressure gauge that they include in every box. OK, so I'm easily entertained. I'm a student on a budget, so I prefer the cost effectiveness of clinchers versus tubulars.

Brett

I trained and raced on Michelin Pro Race tires last year. Tried out Conti 3000, liked the tread wear but the sidwalls gave me a problem. Same with the Conti Supersonic. Probably my bad luck.

The only thing I didn't like about training on the Michelins is that the tread seemed to cut easier cuz it's a slick. The Conti 3000's have a tread pattern on them and seemed to resist cuts on the tread better.

This year I'm going to Tufo Tubular clinchers for training and Tufo tubular's for racing.

jaretj

In case of fire, yell "FIRE!"

DC Pattie said:

So Tom, I think it's OBVIOUS that his RACE WHEEL SET are CLINCHERS , and he wasn't asking whether to keep them or go to tubulars. Self-admittedly your social skills are in dire need of improvement, so why don't you start with realizing that paragraphs 1, 2, 3, 4 and the first part of 5 of your post were unnecessary, and you could have just posted:

"The new Continental Gran Prix Supersonic is a credible attempt at a race specific clincher as are the Continental Force and Attack front/rear specific tire combination."

There's no question you know your stuff about bikes, but it's not always necessary to show how smart or superior you (think) you are. Add this to your "elitism" thread if you're still mystified by customer's reactions. Cats take well to that kind of stuff... people, being human... don't.

I would have to go with the Michelin Pro Race, as I just love the feel and handling of these tires.

mp

Yup, I'm a bad person.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom D obviously has more experience than I do but I take issue with his statement concerning faster tire changes. I rode and raced (mostly crits and never above a Cat 4) on tubulars and I would say that if you can change a tubular that quickly then your glue job is substandard. I have rolled a tubular off a front at 20+mph and was on the concrete so fast I never knew what hit me. I have installed many tubulars over the years and they are still a pain in the arse and messy to boot. O.K so you glue it in such a manner that you CAN change it quickly, now you have a new tire that is held on by only by the tackiness of the old glue on the rim. So your descending on one of those nice wiggly downhills at IMOO and your new tire decides it doesn't want to stay on the rim, what next? Give me a good clincher any day, the rolling resistence of a good clincher is close enough to tubular for most of us. I can pay a sprint entry fee with the difference in the cost of clinchers vs tubbies. The only reason the pros still use them is because they have a support vehicle full of wheels right behind the peloton. Conti, Michelin, Vredstein all make good race clinchers that won't break the bank.

Well... at least you have your cats.

Uh, that's Vittoria. Close enough though, and I agree, they are the reason that I gave up tubs years ago.

That said, they don't last very long, and are best as a race tire only. I also never liked the dual compound tires. The solid black are the way to go, but they may have improved recently.

I just picked up a pair of Conti Attack / Force tires on the recommendation of my LBS. Haven't ridden them yet though, this weekend will be the first test.

Avoid Supersonics, on the back anyway. They wear out in under 1000 kms. The front will last longer (riding buddies experiences, not mine). a similar tire that lasts a bit longer is the Vittoria Ultraspeed, which I raced on for the first part of last year. Still not a high mileage tire, but combined with a lightweight tube is as light as almost any tubular out there, and has reasonable puncture resistance. It requires about 20 psi more than other tires, and not as grippy as the Corsa CX. Great for time trials though.

Hey tom, have you ridden the conti pair before?

It seems like a 100 bucks is an awful lot for some rubber, especially for clinchers.

I love michelins, and i hate to spend anymore than 20 bucks on a tire, in that range, you can't beat the discontinued High Lite's.

Sorry guys, I'm in the middle of doing some fittings. I'll jump back in here in an hour or two....

Good discussion though, as usual.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

To add to my previous post, I don't deny that good tubulars are probably faster than good clinchers but I question whether that justifies the extra cost and hassle. I'm the guy always checking the sale prices at Nashbar and Performance, my budget (and my wife) don't allow $100 a pair clinchers or tubulars to be part of the discussion.

Saber, Tom and I should all go bowling together. Seriously, no hard feelings but I'm still interested in some feedback on the TUFO clincher-tubulars. I have had good luck with the Vittoria's but I'm reluctant to put the new Corsa EVO's on my H3 because of Hed's warning statement on their website.

Thanks,

DC Pattie

I would rate them as OK. Nothing great.

The CX's are fine on the H3

Go with a Continental Gran Prix or Supersonic, but get at least a 23 mm width. the 18mm and 20mm tires are narrower than their nominal size and prone to sidewall damage.

The TUFO clinchers have been discussed in previous threads. Personally I don't like them as they give you the worst of both worlds with none of the advantages.

clinchers can be race wheels!

just ask dave harju (ironman wisconsin winner) heather gollnick (won several ironmans), and both ride spinergy clinchers and the rest of the timex team, and spencer smith. and i saw a picture of chis mcCormick winning a half-ironman in arizona, on alp clinchers. they are such losers! if they knew anything they would ride tubular!.....it might make a very very small difference, but if it was that big of deal (as many slowtwitchers make it) i highly doubt that the pros would ride them. i have clincher race wheels and had the fastest bike split at one race. i also know a cat 1-2 rider who placed in the top 40 at national TT championships, and he rides clinchers......loser.

just ride,

luke

i like michelin pro-race tires alot. i know guys that really like the vittoria stuff too.

I've used Conti Supersonics, very fast, but no puncture protection (?), very hard to fit and very limited lifespan.

I now use Veloflex Paves, awesome tyre, great grip, very fast. No puncture as yet (fingers crossed).

I have the same race wheel combo and use Michelin Race Pro. They are great.

Felix

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http://www.weilenmann.ch.vu

I think the TUFO's are a viable option, because if you have "race clinchers", changing a flat is a royal pain. Not sure what the worst of both worlds would be. But with clincher rims the choice is between the standard clincher tire, tube and rim tape vs. the TUFO setup. The overall weight is similar but the chance of flatting on TUFO's is significantly lower. That is the major advantage of TUFO's.

Some folks don't like them because they feel they ride hard. That's the major knock I've read, but they ride fine for me.

Chill out Luke. If they paid me to use their Crapy Clinchers I would. They don't so I don't. During a race I think I can change a tubie faster then a clincher. I had a bad experance with a clincher when I was a young child. I am still working through it but Dr Phill has bin a big help.He thinks in time I will recover. Till then no clinchers except MB tires but only kevlar folding tires. I want to use clinchers all the time . Their all I think about day and night. French clincher rims. Campy clincher rims. Huffy clincher rims. Stop my !!!~!!!!!! Prozac me DR memory !!! Screw this I'm going Ice biking !!
The Dirtball!

Hey DC Pattie, my 82 year old Mom can beat me at bowling. It's pretty humiliating.

Before I tried the TUFO "clincher/tubular" mutants I would go with the clincher recommendations people have posted her.

As stated by others, I like:

- Continentals, like Force/Attack TPS system.
- Continental Gran Prix Supersonic.
- Vredestein's (used by Hellriegal to win Hawaii).
- Michelin Race Lites.

In my opinion, these seem to be the better clinchers. It seems like I'm forgetting one though... It's crazy in here, I gotta run.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

How about the new Schwalbe Stelvio's..just mounted them on my new 404s (they are soooo sweet...and the Renn disc...bless you all for the recommendation...it is also clincher) and they feel awesome. Time will tell how they perform in a race and how long they last

Can anyone tell me how you glue your tubulars for triathlons to enable the "thumbrule" of less than 2 min flat changeouts? My wife has had two tubular flats in races and had to wait for the support van to change the tires (and if it happens again she will probably kill me). I currently use the procedure on the Zipp website and apply very thin layers, but I still never feel like I could get the tube off in anything less than five minutes...(not taking into account race adrenalin). Mahalo!

The fastest tires in the world aren't fast if you get a flat. Conti 3000s have been pretty much bullet proof for me, while Conti Supersonics have been very flat prone. However, I race with Supersonics because I think they are faster. All that speed I gain with tires puts me in the middle of the BOP or in the back of the MOP. So how stupid am I?

oh yeah. If you wan fast AND puncture resistance, hard to beat Michelin Axial Carbons.

I know you guys have already worked this out, kissed, and made up. Still, I'd like to make a point.

Someone asks, "What's the best screwdriver to use to drive a nail into a wall?" One could answer the question and provide a workable solution. Or, one could say, "You COULD use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail, but a hammer is better. In fact, you could probably sell one of your screwdrivers and buy a hammer and be much happier."

Tom did a good job of both answering the question posed (he did suggest some clincher choices) and offered a suggestion that the person may not have considered. As anyone who deals with customers knows, sometimes you have to steer the customer into a solution they had not considered. In the end, whatever decision the customer makes is what you do.

Personally, I bought a clincher Renn disc because my everyday front wheel (Spinergy Rev-X clincher) IS my race wheel and I didn't what to have a mixed bag. When I "upgrade" my race wheel choice, I will almost certainly go with tubulars but for now, this is what works best for me.

That said, I like the Michelin Axial Pro. The seem to provide better grip than the Conti's I've ridden and have pretty good wear. Yes, they do cut a little more easily but that's something I'm willing to live with.

- Ken

Snap-on, Craftman, Stanley et al neither design nor market screwdrivers for nail driving. Zipp, Corima, HED, Mavic et al, however, design and market clincher race wheels. It's a subtle, but important, difference.

I have both tubular and clincher "race wheels", depending on what kind of race. They both have their virtues. As far as the fastest clincher tires for race wheels, I think the Michelin Pro Race tires, which were used by several teams in the Tour de France, are probably it.

I can't wait to hear more about the new Michelin tubless tires. That sounds very interesting.

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http://irondad06.blogspot.com/

http://irondad.blogspot.com/

I was making a silly analogy. I agree there is an important difference and I stand (sit) corrected. I think I'll punish myself by slipping out for a run.

How come no one has mentioned veloflex? Has anyone ridden them?

I don't claim to have ridden them yet (still sitting in storage), but man, they are a work of art compared to my Panaracer S.E. & Michelin Carbons. And soooo supple!

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Proud member of Team Tooth Pick (TTP): like a leaf in the wind.

I am not being a wise guy but what exactly is interesting about tubless clincher road tires? When I questioned the Mavic guys about their tubless MTB system a few years ago they told me the main benefit was the ability to ride lower pressures without pinch flatting. On technical mountain trails this makes tons of sense and may be worth the problems that come with the system. i.e. limited rim choices, heavier tires, the use of a compressor to seat the bead, inability to patch on the trail. etc. The road thing looks like a "marketing" driven product. "Lets see we have a rim with no spoke holes, and we are the only company that has it. Lets promote tubeless road tires!" I doubt anyone would ever consider running low pressure on the road, if you puncture you have to patch the tire. If you have ever done it on a UST mt bike tire it is not easy. the weight savings will be 70 grams for a tube but the tire has to be heavier to keep air from escaping. Based on the MTB system weights you will be lucky to break even on weight. So you end up with the performance of a clincher, without the ability to pop a tube in after a flat. Just tell the group, "hang on I got a flat, anyone have a patch kit, some soapy water and a compressor so I can repair my tubless system? Dont worry though I only have to pump them up to 35psi. I can run low pressure."

Veloflex in both tubular and clincher versions are sweet, supple, and great road racing tires. As noted above, one needs to get to the finish line and a flat adds 2minutes to one's bike time if you are adept at tire changes. Do a solid roadie glue job and one can spend 20 minutes trying to get a hold of the tire to get it off. Do a cyclocross glue job, and you're stuck. I go back and forth between these (in tubs) and Conti GPs. Flatted both in various races, so who knows. The Veloflex clinchers are my tire of choice for Crits when I don't want to worry about my glue job in the middle of a sharp corner. Paired with latex tubes, and it's a freakin lightweight and supple set up. For the glue wary folks out there, a great tire, IF you are willing to accept the slightly higher possibly of puncture in exchange for the ride and lighter weight. They aren't for everyone.

I just got my vittoria in the mail today. what can I say? Howabout WOW! I can't even see the threads, let alone try and count them. I haven't had a chance to get these on my bike (or even try ridin) but dang these sure looklike nice tires.

-

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I don't work here, I just live here

It's a shame that Hed wheels are not compatible with the EVO line. If I could ride these with confidence on my H3's it would be an easy decision. Hed also points out on their website that the other Vittoria models are O.K. so I'm considering the Vittoria Diamante; 20's up front with 23's on the disc.

DC Pattie

Tufo Elite Jet tub/clinchers go up to 220psi (please don't try that, for your dental health's sake) but they roll like nothing else. With a little practice (remember practice?) you can change one in about 3 minutes.

Thumbs up also on the VeloFlex and Vredesteins. Both ride like tubulars, hold plenty of pressure, and grip well in corners.

Michelin is a French word for "Bad Tire".

b

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"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

Fastest clincher (since that's what you stipulated) I've ever used is the 20mm Veloflex Record.

• ~120 grams
• despite that, surprisingly durable tread life

All the speed you need.

Try the veloflex. They are made by the former Italian employees of vittoria beofore vittoria moved to Taiwan. Veloflex creates high quality mand made race tires. They smell like natural rubber and are very light weight.
I have Veloflex Records on my tt bike. I am a road guy, just like hearing what multi-folks are saying. the Records go to 140psi and have great feel. I am a cat 3 road racer (well, thanks to my itb I haven't raced ina year) and among folks I race with almost nobody uses tubulars. There are some web sites that have very low prices on veloflex. I have used conti 3000s, vittoria open corsa and they are both good, but they are not high pressure tires. They are for a more general purpose.

New Specialized S-Works Mondo Tires are the bomb!
Here's a direct quote from my buddy who admittedly may be somewhat biased since he works for Specialized: "Independent testing in Japan showed the S-Works Mondo tires to be the lightest ( 190 grams ) best cornering adhesion, lowest rolling resistance of any tire tested, including Michelin, Hutchinson, Vittoria, Continental, Vredestein."

I have a set on my new bike that I just picked up yesterday. Haven't tried them yet, but they sure look fast!

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TriDi

I have tried Conti 3000, Michelin Ironman (Pro Race) and Vittoria EVO CX and the Vittoria is by far the best of the three. The ride is as good as a high quality tubular and better than many cheaper tubulars (if there is such a thing) and they can be pumped very high unlike the Michelin or Conti. However, I ride Hed 3's and they do mount very easily on those rims so I can see the potential for danger there at high pressures. I did ride 2 ironman's with them at 140psi before I read the warning in HED's website.