The Hilo is my favorite. Switched to it for both road and TT bike. It seems to work well for people who are looking for a narrower seat. The Sitero did horrible things to my under-carriage. I hate that thing.

I complained about my saddle and bibs for awhile, then recently discovered that it was my position on the seat that was incorrect - I was too far forward, and thus sitting on the nose of the seat, which led to incessant chafing.

I've since remedied it, and found actually that when I'm training for <2hr rides, I use NONpadded shorts (not bike shorts, regular compression shorts), which force me to sit correctly on the seat. Might be worth a try if nothing is working for you - the position really makes a huge difference. (Even $200 Assos bibs didn't save me, nor did cream, etc.)

Adamo. Sit off the front.

5'11 200lbs currently using PN3.0 with great success! No chaffing at all great comfort with lightly padded tri-short

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Speed kills unless you have speed skills!!!

PN 3.0 has taken over my fits. I've had some good success with the new Hilo, too, but no where near the PN 3.0.

That said, another poster was correct, saddle comfort is a combo of saddle, fit, and clothing.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

I'm about 6'1", 185 (175 when race ready, haha) and just switched to the ISM PR 2.0 after reading @Slowman 's saddle article. Very impressed with the comfort and fit so far. Forgot all about the saddle on training rides, which is just what I'm looking for. The PN may be great too, haven't had a chance to try it yet.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...My_Saddle._6364.html

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Yeah it's such a personal thing. I used to think all TT saddles were uncomfortable until I sat on a Sitero, it was like it was designed soley for my butt, they bonded straight away :)

Had the ISM Prologue before and despised that.

And the "flexiness" of the frame when ridden indoors.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Best thing you can ever say about a saddle is you forgot all about it!

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Shimano PRO stealth road/TT saddle. Versatile and comfortable, at least for me.

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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When I first started on my ISM Adamo saddle I thought it was very uncomfortable, but as I continued to make small adjustments for the first few months I really started to hone in the position and it actually became quite comfortable! I'm convinced many saddles would actually work well for most people, they just never give them the opportunity to work for them

I'm also looking to try something different than ISM Century or Cobb Max on my tri bike. Both feels quite good, but I think main problem is that chamois in z3rod isuit and dhb trisuit are to narrow and I'm sitting on seams wnhich are placed exactly inplace where my body touches saddle and it causes pinchingand chaffing. Fleece padding in cheap Zoot suit was better but it also quite narrow for ISM.
Do you know tri shorts or suit with wide padding? I have only one in mind - Castelli with they Kiss Tri pad - it looks wide enough to go over saddles prongs. I heard that Castelli sizing is wierd, is that true?

No, unlike what some self-flattering fat guys like to say, Castelli is pretty true to size - just when it fits, it fits better than most. I wear a size S across the board in shorts, shirts are S or XS - and same holds true in Castelli. My team just switched from ChampSys to Castelli as kit supplier, and most of us ordered exactly the same size as before. It's just that if before, a ChampSys size S jersey had all sorts of creases and wrinkles, the Castelli is cut that much better that it's smooth.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

What, would you say, is the differentiator between the two? The "seating area" (front) on the PN3.0 looks less tapering in pictures, but I don't have access to one.

My wife rode a PN2.0 for a while and it was the first saddle that stopped the numbness - but it was chafing her to death. Now she's on the new Hilo and it's better but not quite, still chafes after a while. Still looking for "the one" - I'm profiting meanwhile, since the PN2.0 was a remarkable improvement for me over the old Hilo which I thought was the best thing since sliced bread.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

So tempting to make some similar ignorant disparaging comment but I'll resist that urge. Maybe you could try it.

I have quite a bit of Castelli kit. Cycling bibs and tri shorts/tops.
They most certainly ARE sized significantly differently from most/all other brands.
I wear XL or in one case even XXL in Castelli, while I wear M or L in Assos, Pearl Izumi, Sugoi, Champion Systems, Orca, etc.

So tell me, if I'm assessing Castelli's sizing relative to other brands, how does my size or self perception come into it?

6' 170'

Bontrager Hilo RXL. By far the best saddle I've used in tri position. I've used Adamo and Dash, but the Hilo takes the cake.

But on the road bike, I have a dash slate on my roadbike and it is an absolute dream.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I've been on quite a few saddles so I'll chime in, but remember that saddle preference is highly individual;

- Dash TT.9 - very comfortable, lots of rotation. Takes a while to get used to the minimal padding, not very suitable or comfy in upright position.
- Dash Strike9 - same as above, quite narrow seating area for aero, lot more comfortable upright.
- ISM Adamo Prologue - Comfortable, I had some chafing/rotation issues, most likely because of the width.
- ISM PN 1.1 - Felt hard.. just couldn't get it right no matter how far forward/backwards.
- ISM PN 2.1 - Very comfortable, good clearance (narrow).
- ISM PN 3.0 - My saddle today. It's quite long & narrow in the front so I can move a little bit back- and forwards on the saddle to find "just the perfect spot". Perhaps a tad harder than the 40's padding ISM's, but overall comfort is extremely good and I get good rotation. No chafing for 90-120 min trainer sessions so far. Can also comfortably sit upright.
- Fizik tritone - Couldn't get it right..

I ride with 15cm drop or so.

x2 on Castelli being sized differently. My team kit for the last 4 years was Castelli and most of us had to order different sized tops & bottoms, which gets complicated for one-piece suits. In my case, I'm 6'1" 175 lbs, had to order L tops (M in certain cuts) but XL bottoms. I'm a straight L in Rapha, Verge, Champ-Sys and Velocio. I'm not built oddly either, 34" waist, 40" chest.

Yes, I should have said, I'm a similar weight but a bit shorter than you. Around 80-81kg (178lbs) and 1.78m (5'10") with a 33-34" waist and 41-42" chest.
When I've bought Castelli gear I take XL or occasionally XXL in cycling/tri shorts, and L/XL in tri tops. It's not a matter of being better cut with less wrinkles as the previous poster suggested. Size L in most brands is the best fit and some I could get into M if I wanted.
In Castelli, XL shorts are very snug and I tried one pair (Free Aero bib shorts I think) that I couldn't even put on in XL without risking splitting them. They weren't snug or compression fit, they were just way too small compared to the name of the size (XL) or their published sizing charts which indicated that they should have fit me easily.

imo I think the problem with saddles comes from a materials perspective.

Underlying foam is flawed. There is a high tech foam formula made by Intuition sports which we use for our boot liners. I have made my saddles using this foam, and it acts like a conformable air suspension. This foam formulation has very unique properties, that make it ideal for a human to equipment interface.

Next I think that the interface covering is important. I ride a Brooks on my road bike, and I think the most important feature of that is the leather.

My tri saddles I covered in leather as well.

Some designs I have seen replicate or come close to the above specs.

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

What about this? http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...Specialized_P6583607

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I was actually looking at the Hilo RXL. It is narrow like a traditional saddle which is the direction I think I need to go. How is it as far as padding goes?
I also had checked out the Fabric which most comments are it it very hard.

You just lost all credibility.

I continue to say the biggest thing with saddles is positioning. In 1990 I rode Hawaii in a Speedo in an old Flite (it was the lightest) saddle with no issues. That is almost barbaric to say these days that you could ride a Flite in a Speedo, but if you are positioned properly you could probably ride a 2 x 4 and be fine. I don't think there is any magic bullet with "which saddle" although certainly some fit you better than others. However, I remain steadfast that position is the most important for comfort. In dialing in a saddle I carry a wrench with me and make lots of little micro adjustments until it is just right. It has always worked.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Same.

FWIW, I was on those 2 saddles (both worked but had some limits on longer rides for me) and want to the Cobb Max and have not looked back. This ISM is too wide upfront for me unless I stay in aero, off the front...not practical for training.

SMP dynamic- Large cutout so I don't go numb anymore.

Check steve hogg write up. https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/...1/09/all-about-smps/

Hi, could you give some details on this foam?
I have designed my own saddle, I have the carbon base but finding good foam and padding tricky.

I tend to agree with you although the saddle finding process has been maddening for me. I have been meaning to start a related post which relates more to positioning than saddle to obtain comfort as I think that is my issue more than the saddle itself. I mean, almost of the the above-mentioned saddles are 55mm at the nose and recommend you sit off the nose so any differences in their properties are minimal.

I will say that the Sitero, my most comfortable potential saddle at this point, does provide a different type of tri fit than the typical noseless saddle as you sit a bit further back on it.

The frustrating part for me was the time it takes to work your way through saddles... The key was finding LBS loaners and demo programs. The mains ones I tried for a bit:

-Prologo Zero ii from road bike. Worked great for road, not at all for tri.
-ISM Adamo Road. Good, but minor thigh chafing on rides >90min.
-Cobb Plus loaner from LBS. Nope. Back to the ISM.
-Fizik Tri-tone loaner from LBS. Nope. Back to the ISM.
-Dash Stock Stages 9. So far so good.

Each time, I would give it a couple weeks to break in. The ISM was a great saddle but the only issue was the nose width was ever so slightly wide for me, I rode it for a couple years with only brief forays into other trials. I thought about getting a different ISM, but couldn't find a decent demo set and it seemed that the online demo was basically you buying a saddle and being able to exchange it for store cred. Settled on trying the Dash because the demo program let you return it completely for a $50 fee. Ended up loving it as it resolved my chafing and still provided the split nose comfort I was used to. All that being said, the saddle choices are so personal that it doesn't matter at all what worked for me :-)

For ref, I'm 6'3", 185lbs.

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Blog | Strava

Are you guys able to articulate the main differences between the PN 3.0 and the previous PN models? I've got a 1.1 sitting in a drawer but never fitted yet. Last TT saddle was a Sitero but the chaffing was chaffy and not good sitting up. Believe I will benefit from narrow.

Of particular interest is a saddle that works pretty well sitting up. Spend a lot of time Zwifting and I'm not racing the KISS and WBR crits in aero! Ive been using a regular road saddle to tide me over.

Cheers fellas.

I can send you some sample of dual density - it's what I use. 12x12" squares. We stock it at Fluidmotionsports.com

Cool material to work with. I'll post a pix of some carbon ports gear we made with later.
- Heat molds at 220-250 DegF
- Sandable
- Glue with a good quality spray or brush adhesive
-You could "bake" your saddle at say 200 then use it and the foam will contour
-The material will also form into use patterns so gets better with time.

Send me a note via our website or pjager@jageng.com

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Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com

bontrager has their hilo rxl speed dial saddle on sale, on the trek site. about 1/2 price. allows up to 16 mm of nose width adjustability, for those (like me) who desire to continue to create pain by playing with different saddles of varying nose widths. They also have a 30 day trial period. My joyful experience: bontrager hilo:too wide. cobb max:slightly too wide, chafing. but close. cobb tenace:too narrow. cobb randee:trying now. Just bought bontrager rxl hilo speed dial: trying now. This is getting ridiculous.

Tenace was too wide for me in the nose . Could have been great if the nose tapered vs staying square, and/or was shorter. It was like being flicked 80-90 times per minute in the same spot of my thighs.

Seems to me the word narrow needs a better (more clear) definition. Narrow where? How many mm = narrow? To me, the answer for the nose isn't 50, though I'm coming to understand that many larger people (relative to my 5'3", 130 lb frame) think it does.

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

Many of times it is not necessarily the saddle, but the fit of that saddle to your body. Consult your fitter.

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Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
Certified Master Retul Fit Technician
Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bikes Plus Pensacola Florida