Offering unsolicited "advice" to others is a great total d bag move! Never. Unless someone asks for help keep your mouth shut.

Pretty much this.

I once came upon a rider on a tri bike whose seat was so low that they rode totally bowlegged to compensate. Everything about his bike fit and position sucked. A few minutes later I pulled into the park area where my vehicle was parked. So did this guy. I told him his seat was a few inches too low and it was likely costing him a lot of power and efficiency. He told me it was comfortable like that and stared at me like I had three heads and just called his mother a whore.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I get your point, personally my self-restraint has always prevailed but surely there is a point at which you have to do something! In the below example I'd bet money this rider went home and raised his saddle per GMAN's advice, reducing the chance of likely future back pain etc..


LOL

A buddy of mine was an American national olympic weightlifting champ and an olympiad - he once mistakenly approached someone at the gym to correct a lifting technique and was excoriated - that tells me, keep your mouth shut unless someone asks you for advice - the road to hell is paved with unsolicited advice and good intentions.

Nope. I help if asked.

I don't know them, I don't know what they are trying to acheive, I don't know their history. So unless I'm willing to get a total stranger to talk to me for 15-30 minutes, and they are willing to tell a total stranger all that stuff, then no.

Every so often, I will strike up a conversation (or the other way) with a stranger, and if it comes up, I'll volunteer my tips, and maybe they'll volunteer some of their own. But really, I wouldn't just walk up to someone and tell them that their seat is too high.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

But I do tell people that their helmets are on backwards. That's a piece of unsolicited advice that always goes over well. Bonus points when it's an aero helmet.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Crit/Road Racing is the one place where I will hand out a little friendly advice without being asked. Even then only if they are a danger and I can add something specific and constructive. I try not to be the, "Hold your line!" guy.

Reminds me of couple years ago we (small group) came up on a solo triathlete on a back country road. One of my friend's noticed the guy's rear skewer was all the way open and told him. The guy responded sharply in a snarky tone, "It's supposed to be like that!"

You get to a point where it just doesn't pay to say anything even if it could save a person from significant injury. I would be happy if someone were to warn me, but having someone snap at you once or twice and it makes you want to just stay quiet.

I've replied the same thing to several of threads when this questions comes up

"free advice is often overpriced"

I do help. But you have to be diplomatic.
It’s usually in the pool where people need most help.
The trick is not to just blurt our advice. You make a couple small talk lines and then ask them if they want advice.

“Hey, I am Alen.” Shake hands.
“Are u swimming for fitness or competing?... awesome! While I was swimming, I noticed a couple things. Do you want any advice?”

With this approach I have yet to have someone say no, especially when they know you are way faster. Most people do want the help.

I, myself, would LOVE badass swimmers to help me. Once a retired HS swim coach was coaching his daughters who were really good. After several days when we swam next lane to each other, I told him that I will buy him coffee if he gave me advice. He said he doesn’t drink coffee but gave me 3 things he had noticed. It was awesome!

When I was new to swimming I was at the pool one day and upon finishing a lap some old guy sitting on a bench says to me "you're doing it all wrong". Then he proceeds to totally trash everything about my form, tells me how I should be doing it and "now do a lap". Turns out he's a retired instructor and fixture at the pool. He basically gave me free lessons that day and offered tips in later weeks. Nice guy.

Another time in the gym a teenager told me I'm lifting wrong, what I should be doing, how he works out and I should be doing everything his way cuz he knows the best way to work out and--oh yeah--he's a personal trainer and he's taking on new clients...

Were their opening comments in the d-bag category? Yeah, maybe not the best opening lines. The follow-up makes the difference. One was a nice guy who I didn't perceive as anything other than trying to be helpful. The other was an arrogant know-it-all.

You can never tell how the person on the receiving end will react to perceived criticism from a total stranger. I personally keep my mouth shut unless something else provides an icebreaker to start a conversation; then I'll ask if they want a bit of advice.

I swim in a YMCA where literally everyone in the pool (and its crowded at lunch!) is a terrible swimmer - I'm not good and I look like swim stud compared to their 2:00+ average pace with all sorts of horrendous in their form.

Still, I refrain from giving out (much needed) advice unless asked (which I never am.) The few times I've seen someone give advice freely in that pool without someone asking, they got berated for it - I think it comes across almost like bullying, like "I'm clearly SO much better than you, so...." And that person offering the advice was very nice about giving it, so it wasn't the delivery that was the problem.

Of course, in a different environment, like a triathlon club where everyone actively wants to improve, unsolicited advice is likely WELCOME! But in a pool environment, some (a vast majority, in fact) of ugly form swimmers just want to get their 'workout', form be danged.

At one of the non-YMCA pools I swam in, there's a lady who does a quasi freestyle, with long fins, thrashing to no end, with head popping out completely out of the water and rolling all over the place on every breath. It's literally the ugliest thing you've ever seen, it's so bad (hence the fins to keep her moving). Still, she's there EVERY day, and actually looks like she's' working very hard in the water, so I strongly suspect she has no interest in learning to swim 'for real', and is perfectly happy burning calories with her thrasher workout. I'm not gonna mess with that!

There's also an indian dude my age who uses a snorkel who swims every day at lunch - when we split a lane, I was going to offer him a tidbit of advice in that he didn't have to crossover so far that his right arm literally passes his left shoulder underwater on the pull (!!!) but he clearly wasn't interested, and took off on his ugly set the moment I was going to suggest.

I agree with this, if it can be done in an non-patronizing and non-condescending manner then why not?


Ok, looks like the majority of folks in this thread are on your side of the fence. See above however, I still feel like a reasonable delivery precludes you from receiving the "D-Bag" label and if they don't want to hear it, fine, move on.

Actually upon reflection I offer unsolicited lessons to women only. Does that strike anyone as Man-Splaining?


Does that make me a D Bag? I have always thought that chicks dig it....

Once, lady was leaving T2 with her helmet still on.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Yep. Occasionally I will encounter someone who is so bad that just a few minor corrections would make a huge difference in their stroke and speed but I have always bit my lip. These folks have seen me do lap after lap right next to them while they struggle just to get to the other side. If they asked for advice I would happily give it, but the fact remains they did not so let it go even though I felt badly for them.

I don't think it's possible to offer unsolicited advice to a stranger. No matter how you preface and how nice you are it still just doesn't come off right. I'd be happy to be proved wrong. Just don't think it's possible.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I strive to keep my mouth shut but sometimes i can't help myself

This past June I was with my 15 year old daughter at the start of a road TT. It was mid-summer and she had already raced about 10 times earlier in the season.

A guy who I know looked at her and just started telling her stuff like "make sure you get your foot clipped in" and "dont go out too hard" - totally unsolicited. She was glancing at me with this angry look on her face like "can I tell this guy how I feel??" I would have told her yes.

ooooo, lifting. Do they even have concensus on what correct lifting technique is? Especially when it comes to squats and dead lifts.

I draw the line at immediate equipment failure. I have pointed it out when a rider's handlebar has one end broken at the drops, but he didn't notice it because he was riding in the hood. But that's about it...

Unsolicited advice is a minefield. Sometimes I help but mostly not.
My icebreaker is noticing the triathlon swim hat. If they are working on drills I might offer a pointer or two. It helps being a competent swimmer and working as a coach.
These days I ask if it's OK to explain in Finnish so I can practice. I've often spent 30+ minutes getting basics right. I love it when it works.

This guy obviously gets the D-bag badge. Your daughter knew what she was doing, I would have paid money to see her give him a piece of her mind.

I would also agree with the equipment failure line. That guy with the open skewer... if his wheel fell off I’d class that as Darwinism

Once when a guy was riding his bike in Transition.

Only if asked specifically.

I think an Olympic Weightlifter probably has a fairly good idea how to lift properly - and, yeah, i think there is a consensus on how to do squats/dead lifts, etc, correctly; maybe a little less sass in the future?

Someone told my husband his wetsuit was on inside-out five minutes before the race was supposed to start.

I still wonder if my husband would have drowned if that guy hadn't said something...

I meant that seriously. No sass intended. The few people i know at my gym can't agree on how to squat perfectly. do you stop your legs at quads parallel to floor ? or is it ok to do a deep squad. A few people i know think deep squad (which olymic lifters have to do for competition purposes) are really bad for your body.

Some people think that olympic lifters are destroying their body with the way they squat. Squat and dead lifts always spawn serious debates in my opinion.

Again, this is my observation. I don't know the answer and I don't know any better. I don't have a clue how to lift...

I try not to, but I have chatted up a few people in the pool with obvious stroke issues and if done gently and respectfully, it can go over well.

The thread reminds of my favorite correction however - which was from a bike ride.

I was out on a training ride on the road between two towns - probably an 8-10 mile stretch. About midway, I spot a classic bike trail denizen - department store bike mountain bike with the seat resting almost on the top tube and bowlegged knees pumping at a cadence that indicated this road was being tackled in the granny gear while straining the seams of her jeans. So far, I'm still not going to say anything... but as I passed I heard the unmistakable sound of dragging rim brakes and I could not stand idly by.

I braked hard to let her come up by me and offered to look at her bike. She thought that sounded OK and that's when I realized she had the front wheel spun 180' giving her ape-hanger bars and pulling the brake cable taught enough to clamp the wheel so it wouldn't even make a full rotation when I spun it in the air. I flipped the bars around, showed her how the shifters worked and set her off down the road. She looked at me like I was a spaceman come down to share our galactic wisdom an set off down the road.

I think of her often when I read stories about bikes being intimidating to novices...we all love them and ride & wrench on them so much it's mostly second nature, but how many people have a miserable experience due to poor initial setup and just think 'this sucks'.

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" I take my gear out of my car and put my bike together. Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of of their lives shocks me. "
(opening lines from Tim Krabbe's The Rider , 1978

I apologize then as i thought you were being sarcastic - i would only say that the way Olympic style lifters lift and Power lifters lift is fairly similar, but most likely dissimilar to Crossfit or just fly by night gym goers - so i think there is a consensus as to how to squat and deadlift, but that doesn't mean all squats have to be deep nor should one try to deadlift a barn. Moderation in lifting goes a long way, especially if you are just doing it for health and not competition.

I was and I should apologize, too. I didn't mean that at you but lifters. At least where I used to live, people have strong opinions of what the right way to lift is, and they never seem to agree. And a squat form debate seem to be our equivalent of a disc brake vs rim brake debate. Maybe my experience is skewed.

If something is a safety issue I'll speak up to a stranger, otherwise unsolicited advise is looked down upon typically. If it's a friend I will happily berate them with my opinion on how they can be better.

I would happily accept unsolicited advice from someone better than me in whatever discipline since my goal is to get faster. But if you're slower gtfo.

aaahh group hug.

Lol, what about our favorite unsolicited advice given by strangers? My favorite is that I need to raise my handlebar if I want to have children.

I have "helped" by offering unsolicited advice in the pool a couple of times in the past. Then this one obnoxious woman that started swimming in one particular pool I visit thought I needed some help and offered me some bits of advice. No doubt she a much better swimmer than I am, but now I know how it feels. I'll never give it out again unless asked.

That’s a fantastic story and I hope most people would offer some friendly advice in that scenario.

I like the quote in your signature. Slightly related to this topic in a way. Currently chasing down a second-hand copy on Amazon!

While that other person did your husband a favour, no doubt, I don’t think he would have drowned! As long as the suit was zipped to the top he would have been pretty tired but still breathing after the swim!

I think you’ve summed up the general conseus here nicely. Gold star!

Stranger danger! Stranger danger!

Actually, I had a stranger once give me a very useful bit of advice: "YOU'RE GOING THE WRONG WAY!" As I proceeded to ride my bike the wrong way on a one-way bike path (though I had just previously thought it odd that I was the only one going upstream). That seemed legit.

Other than that... don't talk to me. Don't even look at me. You're freaking me out!

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Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/

Wait. I take it back. If my watch strap isn't fully secured just prior to the swim start you better tell me! I don't want $500 on the bottom of the ocean. I'm not SCUBA certified. Anything to protect the Garmin. I won't even care if you have ulterior motives.

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Hillary Trout
San Luis Obispo, CA

Your trip is short. Make the most of it.
https://www.slogoing.net/

Hah! What a movie!

I think we are approaching a consensus

I’m sorry where’s the pink? I draw the line at $100 with watches. I’d watch your Garmin sinking out of sight with utter glee if it came to pass

There are two older (than me) women who can't help themselves but intrude on anyone and everyone in the pool to offer their observations and tips. In my way of thinking, it's incredibly rude to intrude on the workout of another adult. I count intrusion in this setting as any communication with another person outside the coach-athlete relationship or outside of a normal friendship during someone's workout.

First swimmer: adult-onset swimmer who I myself coached in masters and taught from her first day in the water. She's been in the water for about 5.5 years now, quitting swimming with the masters team I coached about 4 years ago. In that time, she has "become a certified masters coach" when she completed a one-day stroke clinic put on by USMS. She told ME once, after watching me swim, that I needed to cup my hands "like holding a brandy glass" when I swam freestyle. She proudly boasts of her "national" and "international" medals. While it's true she has won these medals, and she hasn't cheated like some marathon runners do just to get a finisher medal, her medals are won at obscure events that have "national" and "international" in the title, but in fact have as much in common with top swimming competitions and swimmers as a medium-sized 10k has with the Boston or London Marathons. In races with fewer than 10, and often as few as 1-3 others in the same age group, it's easy to win medals. She references those medals as bona-fides when giving uninvited (and plainly incorrect) stroke tips to strangers.

Second swimmer: has openly told people and reputable news organizations that she swam at the 1960 Olympics. She has not one, but two (recently-inked) Olympics rings tattoos on her back (the second one bc her tech suit covers the first one). She has a vanity license plate with the Olympic logo and "SWMMER." A midwestern newspaper published a picture of her at a meet in Ohio, with the caption "XY, a 1960 Olympian, raced in the PDQ meet last weekend..." Clearly, the journalist didn't do adequate research. I recently baited her into stating her claim again on social media, and when she took the bait and doubled down, and doubled down again, I called her on it. Interesting, her choice to lie, bc in recent meets with an actual Olympian from 1960 on deck, she has avoided the guy like the plague. Also interesting, bc of the INTERWEBS. She uses the fake bone-fides of her Olympic participation to intrude on anyone and everyone around her with swim tips.

So, an AOS, who flies all over (New Zealand; St George, Utah; Greensboro, NC) to small meets just to win medals while avoiding legitimate strong competition at all costs, and a woman who lies about being in the Olympics, give unsolicited tips to other swimmers.

There are just so many things wrong with this, and I just don't have a reference for it. Do they do all this to feel important?

Yeah, but there's a difference between telling people facts like this: "Road is closed up ahead." "Your helmet is on backwards" etc and telling them what they should be doing in terms of their general practice.

The latter is obnoxious if unsolicited. Of course there are gray ares - improperly used quick releases are an example. But a riders "form"? Now way do I offer unsolicited advice.

I want to add that the first image in this whole thread, of the guy on the bike in a tank top, illustrates something that annoys me. The OP thinks there is something wrong with that, and frankly I don't agree. The guy is out riding a bike in street clothes himself. I completely disagree that his saddle "should" be a certain way due to what triathletes or bike racers think. It's just not relevant to him unless he wants it to be different or is complaining or problems. And we don't know that.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

No but, I had a guy in a truck pull up to me at a stoplight and give me some unsolicited advise on my riding form a couple months ago. I'm not new to this sport and the guy was spot on. What's strange is I think about what he said often when I'm riding and it really helps. Especially on the TT bike.

If you feel the need just make sure you know what you're talking about and the delivery is probably as important as what's being delivered.

Help is giving part of yourself to somebody who comes to accept it willingly and needs it badly. So it is that we seldom help anybody. Either we don't know what part to give or maybe we don't like to give any part of ourselves. Then more often than not the part that is needed is not wanted. And even more often we do not have the part that is needed. From A River runs through it by Norman McLean

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

No, you're correct. I'm stuck in this now. I have a cycling coach, and I do crossfit for fun. The cycling coach has strong ideas about lifting. And so do a few of the crossfit guys.

Despite crossfit reputation, the crossfit instructors are slowly winning me over on technique. Just picking one thing, the cycling coach says when squatting, look up at the top of the wall in front of you. The crossfit instructors' approach is to keep a "neutral" head position. The cycling guy's instructions seem to be rooted in an 80's version of technique, while the crossfit crew seems very up-to-date. Not that "up-to-date" is always right, and there are certainly fads. But they're gaining my trust just with their sheer attention to detail.

I would love advice in the pool if someone saw the need to correct what I’m doing! I’m slow, I learned to swim as a kid, but have taken lessons to improve. My endurance is improving. But if you are going to offer advice, don’t come across as a superior know it all. Be nice and helpful.

It's pretty to ask a stronger swimmer to give you a single tip. Not all of them can correctly identify your errors, but it's at least worth thinking about.

Oops. . . isn't this a penalty?

That reminds of something I had forgotten. I once rode by someone who was riding some POS Walmart-like road bike. The forks were installed backwards so the forks curved towards the rider and not away. I have no idea how the wheel fit in there or anything else installed properly from there but somehow it did. I told them their fork was on backwards. The person first asked me if I was sure. Yes, I'm sure. They then thanked me. I somehow got the feeling they didn't care too much and probably never got it fixed. I would assume that's a heck of a safety issue as the forks buckling is probably inevitable.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I've never given unsolicited advice (simply because I'm not a coach) but have received it a couple of times in the pool. I appreciated it but whether it was a life changer or not ... no not so much. Even advice from my squad / swim coaches haven't always necessarily stuck because I know that diff styles work for diff people.

I think that the intention is always good - to be helpful - so for me I don't see any problems and always thank the person who has given it to me. Doesn't bruise my ego at all (heck, I've got none) and I don't see it as them being arrogant.

I think you should mind your business unless someone asks you for help.

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Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3

Agreed, I think I blurred these two very different scenarios in my OP.


I think obnoxious is a bit strong, although there are many different opinions on this thread the general consensus seems to be if you make an effort not to come across as a d-bag you shouldn't be branded one.


This couldn't be further from the truth. I actually struggled to find a good picture of a cyclist with their saddle too low on google image search. He just happened to be in a tank top. In addition, I'm not speaking from the point of view of a triathlete or bike racer, just basic safety/common sense/injury prevention perspective.

Finally I think you've hit on something in your last sentence. I sometimes meet folks new to cycling and will ask how they're enjoying it, do they like their bike etc. and also if they've any soreness/numbness. That usually steers the conversation to suggesting a small tweak in saddle height or fore/aft adjustment without coming across as "obnoxious"

What's stopping you from asking the next good swimmer you see? I'm just curious.. is it just nerves/politeness?

Safety? Injury prevention? You're just making stuff up.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

As a total newbie to swimming for speed, I wish that people would correct me. I need it. As long as they don't come off like a total a-hole when doing so...

I told a stranger that he had his helmet on backwards. We've all been new at somepoint and need advice. It's more how the advice is given. I didn't yell out across the parking lot for everyone to hear and see. I walked over and smiled and quietly asked him if he knew he had his helmet on backwards. He appreciated it, we laughed and I told him to have a good ride and I've never seen him again. There's a pretty clear line between the people who want everyone to know that they know it all and people who actually want to help people.

It wouldn’t be nerves or politeness stopping me, I guess i would worry a bit if they are able to give meaningful advice.. But then I guess the same could be said for unsolicited advice. (I took a few lessons from one of the tri team coaches and he was not a good instructor for me. I switched and the woman I went to was fabulous. I go back to her every so often but it’s expensive) I was just thinking of the person several replies ago that had a former swim coach help them out. Plus I don’t want to interrupt someone’s workout.

The only time I can think of I would do this is if there would be impending personal injury if I didn't say something.

Otherwise, it would have to be an environment where feedback is expected.......like a peloton during a group ride or race sim. If someone's riding shit, they're going to get told something to prevent the group going down.

The only time I did this:
I openly called out one rider that kept losing their wheel in front of me because they couldn't comfortably stay on their skis and hold a wheel. We're talking about 4 bike lengths opening up. Meaning the right line was losing the group. Eventually I communicated with the people in the left-hand line to say I was going up the middle to pass the person, and did so. The left hand line let me go.

FWIW....in that case.......if you do bother to bring a Tri bike to a huge fund raiser group ride.......stay off the damn skis in the peloton. If you want to get on the skis, get out back or up front. Otherwise get on the bull bars. Why the hell do you need to be on the skis in the peloton anyway? You're doing what, 120 to 140w to maintain 25mph? I swear I've heard of TdF riders averaging 120w for a couple hours in the main group on the flats.

It wasn't just one person. The two times I did a few minutes turn up front there were people on the skis behind me. Behind me. Seriously?

I have noticed an inverse correlation between someone's expertise and how eager they are to offer input. There are a couple of former D1 swimmers who use the same pool that I go to. I have introduced myself and asked that if they see anything I am doing wrong, please point it out. They have had very little to say, even though I am not a fast swimmer (midpack on a good day). However, the guy who struggles to do two laps and slaps the water like he is trying to work out a grudge with every stroke has told me that if I keep trying, I can be as good as him.

When I started riding, I did have the good fortune to ride several times with someone who has bike toured the world and teaches a class on riding confidently in traffic. He readily shared his information and wasn't a jerk about how he did it. I learned a ton from him about riding in groups or navigating traffic.

That's a great way to learn. Did he charge for the classes? Was it a solo operation or did he offer it through a cycling club/local organisation?

Cycling has exploded here in Ireland yet there are very few introductory classes like this offered locally. The message here at the moment is put as many lights on your bike as possible and wear as much luminous clothing as possible.

Then the cars definitely won't hit you... /pink

I've only given unsolicited advice once.
My training partner and I were at the squat rack (we were match sprinters and squatted a >2x bw). Two women started working at the next squat rack. They were putting the bar way up on their cervical spine, like right at the base of their skull. Scary, as in they were going to damage spinal cord at any minute.
We actually stratigized because we knew that telling them straight out they were doing it badly would just get us labeled as douche bags. So we just initiated casual conversation for a bit. Then I asked if they had been squatting for a long time. They said this was their first time. I asked if they would like any tips. One of them said, yes, she would love some help and added, "I really appreciate the way you asked".
Whew, quadriplegia averted.
Cheers,
Jim

You’re doing the Lord’s work Jim /pink

Seriously though that’s a great approach and one many people in this thread would support. I wish I had the skills to start casual conversations with women in the gym!

I think there was a fee for the classes and he taught them as a one day, no credit class at the local college. I saw the ads at bike shops sometimes. He is very active in the local cycling community, and led a local club's beginner friendly ride. I rode with him a few times on that, and many years later, we still run into each other occasionally. I dabble in bike touring, and I have asked him for advice about that a couple times. He's a great guy.

I have offered swimming help a half dozen times over the last 20 years. It was appreciated 5 of the 6 times. The other one was polite but "meh" about it. I've really tried to judge if the advice would be appreciated or not before offering it. As others have posted, many people are there just for a work out and probably don't care particularly about improving. The cases where it was really appreciated was when it looked like they were trying really hard and were frustrated with their results. I always open up with, "I know unsolicited advice is rarely appreciated, so stop me right away, but .. ". I've also evaluated if I could be effective. Its one thing to swim well. It's another to teach it. I once offered a young woman some help who was so appreciative she kept asking me for more help and I ended up working with her for 40 minutes.

Gary Hall, Sr once offered I guess what would count as helping a stranger correct their form.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...%20swimming#p2807690

Look at the first 3 posts

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I don't think it's a penalty but it definitely isn't a good look. She was appreciative of the unsolicited advice !

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

+1

Link is broken?

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...%20swimming#p2807690

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...%20swimming#p2807690

See if that works. Keeps changing after I hit submit.

ETA - works for now but possible only on my computer.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "