Since Challenge is pretty much a 70.3/140.6 company, let's speculate that they are teasing about a new HIM. And since Mar-Apr in Florida already has 4 HIM races on the calendar (edit - 5 if we include May), while the end of IM70.3 Miami leaves only one on the calendar for Sep-Nov, then I would speculate they are talking about the Fall. But most races on the east side of the state swim in the intracoastal, not the beach, due to sharks; and Daytona Beach is #1 for sharks. Challenge races have failed miserably in the U.S., but I'll reserve comment until I see a specific announcement.

1. Volusia, Florida - 275 (1882-2016)
Florida wins in terms of shark attacks in the U.S. Volusia County, home of Daytona Beach, has had the most shark attacks by far, but very few have been fatal. At New Smyrna Beach in Volusia, there are more shark-related incidents per square mile than on any other beach in the world. In fact, if you’ve ever gone swimming in New Smyrna beach, chances are you’ve probably been within 3 meters of a shark, according to Regenold. That’s probably why Volusia is nicknamed the “Shark Attack Capital of the World.”

That's what I thought! Maybe it is just a generic picture.

Also thong bikinis are banned there with a penalty of up to $500 and 60 days in prison. So that's two strikes against :-)

I looked at the photo. The sand isn't white so it's not on the Florida Gulf Coast. And the Atlantic doesn't look that blue on Florida's east coast although they may have shot the photo on a great day ... or doctored it. Regardless, I'm going to guess the new race is not in Florida, especially since they already tried and failed in this state. I doubt it's even in the U.S., but we'll find out tomorrow.

My guess is Jensen Beach, Fla.—those don't look like the typical Daytona-style waves, IMO. It's too deep on the inside. Jensen (and that area) generally have waves that are very crumbly on the inside due to the steep dropoff.

Plus, a company that used to run a half-iron distance race in Jensen went under recently.

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Multi-race has already announced a new HIM at Jensen Beach on 22 April 2018.

Whoop Whoop!


Too bad I'll be getting destroyed at collegiate nat'ls. :(

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Gary Hall Sr. has a funny story about doing a triathlon in Daytona Beach. After he'd retired from swimming, he picked up triathlon and, as you'd expect, he led most of the swims by a considerable margin. While about half way through the swim of an Olympic distance race in Daytona he felt something nudge him and he thought "good for that guy to be swimming with me!" A few seconds passed and he felt a much more distinct hit on his hip at which point he thought "Man, that's rude. There's plenty of room out here for both of us."

After another fifteen seconds or so he felt a big hit on his side which caused him to stop swimming. He thought he was going to grab the guy and say "knock it off!" However, when he looked around he noticed the closest swimmer was over 100 yards away from him. That's when he saw the dorsal fin swimming towards him: it was a massive hammer head and IT WAS PISSED. Gary decided to swim BACK towards the main swim group and then "hide" in that group for the remainder of the swim. Apparently the hammer head harassed that group as well.

I've heard this story told a few different times with other people taking credit but I first heard it from GH Sr. In any event, that's a code brown incident!

If I were them I'd go for something late season. Maybe November. The race calendar in FL is packed from January through May.

I have no idea about your story about Gary Hall, but this is my story, told here many times over the years. I was the owner/race director of the race in question in Daytona, and I was also the guy off the front of the swim when that hammerhead hit me. I would be interested to know if he is actually running around telling that story, or it has just gotten thrown some many times it is a game of telephone.

Mike Garcia and a couple others got hit that day once I swam back to the lead group, there is a slight chance Gary was in there? I don't have the old results for AG'ers, that would be the one case where he had a story to tell...Here is my first ST account of the incident in 2003, I have some magazine articles from the mid 80's documenting my tale..

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...tring=monty%20shark;

I've heard the same story but it wasn't Gary Hall. No matter...I don't want to swim off the Atlantic Coast.

I'm 99% sure he told that story to a group of swimmers (myself included) at a camp at Islemorada ~4 years ago *but* I could be mistaken... perhaps he even told the story as someone he knew... so I don't want to throw him under the bus.

In any event, that's quite a story.

One of my parent's neighbors down in Palm Beach paddle boards nearly every morning and he always tells me about all the sharks that he sees. I'll stick to the lakes here in CFL!

As someone who grew up surfing the east coast of Florida and trained in Orlando, I'd take swimming in the Atlantic over swimming in any body of freshwater in Florida. Despite the hammerhead incidence, sharks generally stick to themselves; however, gators and amoebas only exist to screw your day up.

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

You haven't lived until you've swum the Rainbow River ... no gator or amoeba concerns in those waters.

I was lucky to live after I raced in Baldwin Park in Orlando a few years back—Lake Baldwin was by far the most disgusting swim I've ever done.

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

So long as you're swimming with a decent sized group, smaller gators will run away (5' and smaller). I won't swim in a lake on my own and I won't swim with any of the monsters. One of the lakes by where I live has a 12' gator in it right now!

I always go straight to the domain registry and whois URL's:
https://www.whois.com/...hallenge-daytona.com

There you go. Registered by Triple Performance, the company that runs Challenge Almere-Amsterdam by the looks of it.
I'd say Daytona is a pretty good bet based on this.


Don't know anything about Daytona, but given all the shark comments on this thread, couldn't you do a swim in Lake Lloyd at the speedway? Just googled and found some triathletes did an open water swim event there...

Thanks for the intel. I hope they are smart enough to put it in the fall because the spring calendar is saturated!

DNS lookups are fun, cuz no matter how secret an org might try to keep a race, you know they will have to register the domain at some point.
Ironman is a bit tougher as they own so many domains, a lot of them could be cheaply bought place holders instead of new races.

If my domain lookup skills are correct, Challenge has a new race in South Korea soon....

So Ziby found a European sucker to put on a Challenge race in North America? Buying into a declining market backed by a brand no one in that market buys. I give it one year.

---

@rhyspencer

Not my money. Florida is pretty much the last place on my destination list too.

Speaking of that, you live in Penticton, right? I give Super League a year.
Same weekend as Kelowna Apple which is the Canadian champs? LOL.
Mike Brown has lost his mind and his money.

Really? You honestly think people would rather do the Apple which didnt run in 2017 because they couldnt find a race director than Super League? And you really think Super League is funded by Mike?

You think athletes would rather do another same old olympic distance race vs 3 days of racing (or 1 if they want) that includes a Time Trail on a close car circuit at Area 27? Once they finish they can hit a beer tent and watch the best pros in the world race?

I just dont see a comparison at all. I do see the old guard Triathlon world including BC tri and Trican desperately wanting to hold onto the past though with ridiculous fees to put a provincial and national events, archiac rules, and cost overhead to host delegates who add no value....like the trican president who decided it was better to do a social ride than be at finish lines of world championships events at ITU Multisport. One race where Canada won gold!

..I did Apple once 2015. 2 lap run course with shit signage i was sent off course. . I had to drive an hour Saturday to rack my bike at a specific time of day. Then wait an hour. Then come back next day and race. This isnt ironman, its an olympic distance event. Expensive with a bag of Apples for the AG win. I found the whole thing overly bureaucratic and it wasnt even a national event! Good luck working with Trican. Overly bureaucratic and expensive.

Anecdotal but i know a few people who havent done Triathlon in years buying a bike and doing super league.

Now Super League might not work, but at least its fresh and brings new blood into sport, and is not living in the past like Penticton so often does.

---

@rhyspencer

NASCAR

http://www.challenge-family.com/race/daytona/

---

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

It's toast. By mid-Nov, Florida athletes are at the end of an incredibly long season...one that typically ends with the last long course race of the year IMFL, MiamiMan, GFT or earlier. Powerman Florida tried the race track approach a few years ago further down the coast...it didn't work. They moved it to Ocala on the same weekend in Dec...too late in the year...they canx this year a week before the race was to be held. Everyone is either taking a break for the holidays or they are focusing on the Florida running season. The time of year and location is everything here and Challenge has shown me once again that they don't understand this market.

Pretty awesome idea in my opinion but I also grew up in Charlotte NC going to NASCAR races three times a year so the idea of racing on Daytona is a new manufactured dream that was never a remote possibility that had ever entered my mind until this announcement.

I would imagine Jimmie Johnson and some other NASCAR drivers might have a hand in this. Cycling has infiltrated the entire NASCAR community during the past several years and the race being in early December, all the drivers and crew will have the opportunity to participate.

Obviously the main unknown for this race will be how much cross over there is with the NASCAR demographic and triathlon demographic. This race is a full go for me as soon as I saw the announcement but will there be enough triathletes that grew up with NASCAR that won't be able to turn down the opportunity to race on Daytona?

I have no idea who funds Super League, I just assumed it was Mike Brown.
And I'm not defending Kelowna Apple in any way. I agree with your assessment.
However, a new RD could change things significantly... but I don't know.
It IS the national champs for the next two years, and that does mean something so certain athletes.
I won't be doing either race.
But to schedule them both on the same weekend is the height of stupidity. You are going to split participants.
Side note: Calgary 70.3, Ironman Whistler and Edmonton ITU are same day in 2018 too. WTF. All different distances, but still.
And don't get me started on a rant about TriCan and the provincial federations.

I do find it ironic complaining about the drive to Kelowna when you will drive 45 min to do a TT in Oliver.

Maybe I'm living in the past, but the only thing that will get me out to Penticton next year is Hydrosloth's IMC redux.

I am in. Sounds like an awesome race around Daytona including the track. Close to home as well.

---

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Not to derail the thread, but I do hope the Canada National Championship has more success out west than it had in Ottawa. 159 registrants in the Olympic, and 202 in the Sprint this year.

I'm definitely interested in Challenge Daytona, but I grew up in a family that was really into auto racing.

Umm....maybe I'm in the minority but I'd rather do the Apple than Super League. Absolutely nothing about Super League interests me.

I doubt the NASCAR drivers are involved. There is a great race at Watkins Glen International Speedway (Fly-by-night). The entire course is on the track. No drivers have ever shown up that I'm aware of. Jimmie had a series in NC that is now canceled.

I'd like to see a bit more details on the Sprint, but looking at the web-site it looks like the ugly step sister. If they release some info on it and its 100% within the track, I'll be there. If not, probably not.

Yes, racing on a track is really cool. Rev3's race at Poconos was fun riding on the Pocono track, but sadly it got canceled for 2018.

Landon Cassill already said he's in: http://www.triathlete.com/...s-engines-u-s_309538

NASCAR Monster Energy Cup Driver Landon Cassill is no stranger to half-distance tris and has the event marked on his calendar. “This will be an incredible venue for a long-distance triathlon,” he said. “This is a racetrack that has meant so much to me and our sport, and it’s definitely a race I will have to get ready for.”

That’s cool. I guess I’m wrong.

Your reading comprehension is terrible:

Five reasons to race:
1. Race at the world center of NASCAR racing against NASCAR drivers
2. A unique backdrop with racing inside the Daytona International Speedway
3. Close your season spectaculair with a December race.
4. Race with the best PRO’s – Andy Potts, Jessie Thomas, Heather Jackson
5. First US Race with Double Qualifying slots for THECHAMPIONSHIP

---

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Not to derail the thread, but I do hope the Canada National Championship has more success out west than it had in Ottawa. 159 registrants in the Olympic, and 202 in the Sprint this year.

-----

Whoa. Didnt realize numbers were THAT bad. Apple will fair way better. Plus the junior racing. I don't see an ROI on the fees Trican charges. I dont see an extra 100 registrations because its nationals.

To bring it back to the thread. I dont see an extra 100 registrations because of the Challenge license fee either. I think if people want to race Daytona they will regardless of Challenge brand. So again, why pay the licensee fees. In fact, i see LESS registrations because of the Challenge brand and their past in North America not more.

I am doing Roth in 2018. Pretty sure they have that race dialled in-:)

---

@rhyspencer

Guess I'm the exception to the rule. As a Floridan, I welcome the December race. Done IMFL, have no desire to go to Miami, and raced in Clermont. At $200 why not?

Perhaps I will be wrong, but it is going to take a lot of people to make it work and Dec multisport races have historically not done well. Heck, the typical Florida triathlete doesn't even own a wetsuit. BTW, you don't have to limit yourself to IM Florida just cause you live here.

I need the course profile IMFL has (boring and flat) because I'm fat, the convenience is just a bonus. I don't think it's Floridians that keep races like IMFL or MiamiMan alive, anymore than it's Floridians fault that winter races fail. If that makes any sense. Personally I'd much rather do this race in December than Gulf Coast in May. Yes it CAN be hot in December (last Challenge Venice was 90 degrees) but it WILL be hot in May.

Although I will agree that, while the speedway is a good pull for athletes, Daytona is a terrible racecation destination. They better start pushing Disney pretty hard because people from out of state may not know how terrible Daytona is. Then again it's not much worse that Panama City...

This race is pretty much DOA for two main reasons: Challenge branding and their inability to grasp the North American market, and the December date.


That stated, there's some interesting stuff to the race that make it interesting and unique. So that's the positive.


My concerns and observations:


1. My guess is the infield lake (Lake Lloyd) is pretty disgusting. It's first and foremost a very large retention pond. It looks like the very first OWS took place there just a couple of months ago, so there's pretty much zero history of swimming there. There's a very, very famous beach and ocean a couple of miles to the east and they're choosing to go with a man made shitpit in the middle of a race car track. Just sayin'.


2. No issues with the bike. Kind of neat taking a lap around the track before heading out for the other 50-something miles. Otherwise a typical flat and ho-hum Florida bike course.


3. The run is where I'm a bit confused. The website (or should I say websites since there's more than one) doesn't do a great job describing the run course. Which is no surprise given how shitty the website(s) was developed. It's really a terribly designed website(s) with lots of misspellings and dead links and all that. Anyway back to my point. Is the entire run course just doing loops around the track and stadium? Not saying that's a good or bad thing.


4. Daytona International Speedway holds like 110,000 people. The place, if you have never seen it, is gigantic. I get they want spectators to fill the grandstands to cheer on the athletes but a couple of hundred people cheering on a couple of hundred people is going to look silly and sad in the cavernous space of the Speedway. Are they overestimating their potential draw here? Even a 2,500 person IM branded event would look stupid in that space. More so the 109,500 empty seats than the two hundred people running around a 2.5 mile oval.


5. Is there that big a crossover between triathlete and NASCAR fan? I've lived in North Carolina and Texas since 1993. I'm not seeing much crossover between the two. I think they're completely missing the mark on that one. It's also two sports on the decline, especially NASCAR. NASCAR is experiencing the lowest TV ratings and lowest track attendance in decades. Some races have seen 30-50% TV ratings and attendance dips in just the last couple of years. The Daytona 500's ratings are about half what they were 10 years ago. Maybe Challenge should start another race around a golf course so they can sync up with another sport nobody gives a fuck about anymore.


6.
Five reasons to race:
1. Race at the world center of NASCAR racing against NASCAR drivers - Who really gives a shit?
2. A unique backdrop with racing inside the Daytona International Speedway - Sounds cool in concept, just don't think it works out like they think it will.
3. Close your season spectaculair with a December race. - Arguably more a con than a pro. I agree with Paul (HuffnPuff) above that race season is done by then.
4. Race with the best PRO’s – Andy Potts, Jessie Thomas, Heather Jackson - Who really gives a shit, part II. I'm really not sure why this is still something that is marketed at ANY triathlon.
5. First US Race with Double Qualifying slots for THE CHAMPIONSHIP - Two things: 1) It's your only US race, so let's cut the marketing speak, and 2) I assumed this meant Roth, and that there was now a qualification process for it. Apparently, there's a Challenge Championship race that's held in Slovakia. Good for them. Completely forgot that existed. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Which is a basic problem in and of itself.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Yes, Floridians do keep IMFL alive. KLR, just one team in the Tampa Bay area, had 34 athletes at IMFL this year. I think Outspokin Multisport had about 20. Without Florida triathletes, WTC would have to pull the plug on that IM. And, of course, that was the end of the season for most of them. Miami Man is a different story the past two years (and next year) as USAT Nationals, but after that, yeah, it will be pretty much a local contest.

Again, the Winter races fail because the season is over. You can get a few folks who will go to the Key West triathlon in Dec (because it's Key West) or HITS Naples (because they extend their Florida visit from New Years Day by less than a week to fit it in), but I can guarantee you that few people will go to Daytona mid-Dec. And Orlando is the biggest travel destination in the United States over the Christmas holiday season ... not mid-Dec.

I imagine there is a very thin Venn diagram overlap between the triathlete and NASCAR fan bases, so it's going to be up to those few folks to determine whether Challenge Daytona survives. I'm predicting one and done so don't miss your opportunity in 2018 (assuming they don't cancel it) .

Yes, Gulf Coast 70.3 will be hot, which is why the Intimidator HIM, HITS Ocala HIM, Florida 70.3 and Jensen Beach HIM are all in March/April. The reason Gulf Coast is in May is because Panama City Beach is inundated with spring breakers in March and April; and they don't need a tiny race to fill a few hotel rooms those months.

And as someone who graduated High School in Panama City you have cut me to the quick! But I'll say this: Daytona Speedway is far worse than Panama City Beach, because at least the latter is at the ... BEACH!

I'm not doing this next year, because of scheduling, but I'd consider it in the future. (I'm in Miami btw.)

1. I did a one-and-done similar race at the Miami Speedway run by Multirace (in 2016?). Don't know how it compares to Daytona, but the swim was actually pretty nice. Pretty clear and lots of plants growing in there not just shitty algae. Doesn't guarantee cleanliness, but I was worried about it ahead of time and felt fine during.

2. They could at least have two laps for the bike. I hope they do. That was honestly the only appealing thing about that race. Ride around once, go do 24 miles or whatever outside for one loop, then come back in for a second lap. I couldn't tell from the map what the hell is going on with the bike.


4. I doubt they're trying to fill the stadium for this. Maybe if they give out free beer they'll get a nice crowd, but that's it.

These are the 2 reasons I'm considering the race. I really wanted to get to Carolina last year to race against Jimmie at his race, but scheduling didn't work out.

Racing at Watkins Glen is very cool. Poconos was also cool. I'd expect the same at Daytona.

I’m certainly not implying there’s any attempt to fill the stadium. Just a few hundred people seated in a place that holds 110,000 is going to look weird. I’m certain they will keep all the spectators on the finish line side of the track but it’s still going to be sparsely populated.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

The Michigan high school cross country championships take place at the NASCAR track here (it starts in the infield, run outside of the track and finishes at the start/finish line of the track). So it's a similar set up ... a few hundred people in stands built for 100k. But people mill about, walk around. It's not as odd as it seems like it could be. And it's actually fairly nice for the spectator (actual seats, bathrooms, etc).

Glad he isn't in my age group. These NASCAR drivers are fast triathletes. I am really looking forward to the race. We also have 7 or 8 people from our Tri club that have registered and more have committed. I really don't see a reason for all the hate towards the event but then again it is Slowtwitch. How often do people come here to comment with excitement?

---

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

Yeah, I didn't think you literally meant that.

What they will probably do, I think, is allow spectators to walk all over the infield.

Challenge isn't expecting IM numbers though. They only need a couple hundred, as opposed to a couple thousand, to be successful. I think they can pull that. Even in Venice's last year they had a decent turn out, and that area was terrible for a race. I'm not from either place, but having been to both PCB and Daytona, I'd say they're a wash. They both sold their soul to MTV when spring break TV was big, and are both dumps. I made the mistake of staying in PCB a week the first time I did IMFL. At least Daytona is a short drive to Disney, which will work for me convincing my wife to go. Daytona also has a beach? Logistically I get why they won't want to do the swim in the Atlantic. I'd rather swim in Bud Light lake than the Atlantic, and I live on the Atlantic. It also helps that this will cost me half of what Haines City will

I agree they don't need IM numbers, but I don't think 200 will cut it. Challenge Iceland went from 85 finishers in 2016 (counting team finishes as one) to 152 in 2017 and lost their sponsor afterwards. That race is now gone. So for Daytona, the break even registration all depends on what their costs are. However, I would think 500 would be a first year success.

Now for my hurt feelings. If you called Panama City a dump, I would have to agree. But Panama City Beach is a far cry from the days when I was in High School and there were no high rises, and it was almost quaint. There are a lot of upscale condo's and home sites now with a very nice outdoor shopping center (Pier Park) to support it. Frank Brown Acquatic Center is a super facility and they have extended the bike path that runs behind that park.

Anyway, I am not hating on Challenge; I am merely speculating on their likelihood of success based on my own, admittedly biased opinion on the triathlon market in Florida. BTW, the Key West Triathlon was cancelled last weekend for weather...those folks all have free entry to next year's Key West Tri which will most likely be on the same weekend as Challenge Daytona so some of the potential market is already gone. We will shall see. If this race dies before 2020, I'll be sure to resurrect this thread to applaud my ability to foresee the future. And if I'm wrong, I hope you forget about it. Ha!

Landon Cassill, who drove for Front Row last year, has done 70.3 in just over than 4 1/2 hours. He's pretty stout as far as the drivers go in Triathlon.