-How important is a black brake track to your aesthetic sensibilities?

-How good are your current brakes?

In my experience, the Turbine track gives excellent and consistent braking in all conditions...good enough to make one not understand the push for disc brakes on road bikes.

However, a high quality caliper brake using KoolStop Salmon pads on machined aluminum surfaces works just as well...so, it really comes down to the aesthetics.

edit: BTW, when I bought my Blacks, they were on a 20% off sale, so it was only a ~$480 difference ;-)

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Is it worth it? Eh.... what sort of riding and racing do you plan on doing? If I was doing a lot of descending and/or was frequently in wet weather I'd go for it for sure. Normal aluminum brake surfaces work quite well. The "turbine" brake track *is* better and it looks cool but whether or not it's worth the extra $600 is really going to be a personal choice.

The way I look at it one better brake scenario is worth its weight in gold but then again everyone else on carbon makes that sacrifice every day of the week. I love the HED JET+ Black but with the normal everyday price of HED JET+ 6 at $1049 it is even harder to justify.

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I bought the HED Jet 6 Black and liked them so much I ended up getting the Ardennes Black for my training wheels. It may not be such a big deal when roads are dry, but when roads get wet, it's reassuring to know your brakes are more effective. The textured rims compensate for below average tri bike brakes.

That's a really good point.

Mostly Wisconsin courses (full and 70.3). At least for next year.

Debating if I wanted a jet 6+ set and take that extra cash and spring for a disc or 9+.

At minimum I’m just going to get some Jet 6+

Dang it guys. I was set on going with the 'regular' jets and now I'm starting to re-think it and getting the blacks. This could make my bank account sad.

To the OP. Not sure where you are planning to but from. But mybikeshop.com has the Black 6's for $1400 (using the coupon code) and the Black 9's for $1300 (no code needed). The've got a good price on the Jet 6 plus's as well. Though the best price right now for them is at Steep and Cheap. Between their current coupon code (60 off any purchase of 300 or more) and the 8% cash back through active junky deal, you can get them for ~$850 shipped

So the great deals on both sets make it tough to decide on one.

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Matt

Do that. The odds of the extra braking capability every being useful in Wisconsin long course triathlon or long course training are vanishingly small.

If you were a Colorado roadie doing lots of twisty, wet descents, I could see it. Wisconsin long course guy? Alloy rims with good well-maintained pads and brakes are already fantastic.

It doesn't rain enough in Colorado to make them worthwhile. Unless you make a habit of riding in the rain or you think the black brake track is cool (which it is), I would think your best bang for the buck is certainly getting the disc.

the website says 90 psi max??? i would use them tubeless so i guess no big deal but does that seem weird to anyone else?

Jet+ and Jet black both have 25mm wide rims, allowing for lower tire pressure. Lower rolling resistance, better stiffness, aerodynamics and handling....so says HED.

It's different than most recommended tire pressures, but it makes sense.

No, they are 21mm wide. There are guys that run 75psi on HED JET+. I typically race at 84-89 on skinny 23mm tires.

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The HED+ rims are 21mm internal and 25mm external, in training I (180lbs) run 75psi on 23mm Conti4kSII (27mm wide mounted) in wet conditions at the fw and often miss to pump when it's getting dry again ..

edit: because the rw has straight pull spokes, too (is more stable) & the brake tracks of the blacks stay longer I prefer them ..

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It used to be 100 when I first got them. At least that's what I recall. I'm usually at 85-90 with 23mm tires. One pinch flat in the last year and it was a huge pothole that took the wheel out of true a little.

What did you end up going with and how do you like them?

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I have not pulled the trigger yet!

We have our second child coming in a couple weeks and I upgraded my frame last year, so I’m a little hesitant to spend any money right now.

That being said, I will get the the jet 6+ no matter what. After all the research I’ve done and the money to benefit ratio seems a no brainer.

I appreciate your response and I will for sure post after I pull the trigger!

Will I see you at IMWI?

Just an FYI, mybikeshop still has good deals, 1199 I think for the Jet6 black, so the money diff may not be that much compared to the normal Jet rim.

Two years ago my wife went over to Europe to race Haute Route Pyrenees - an insane week long race that takes in ALL the major climbs in the Pyrenees.

We debated getting a disc-brake bike, but time and money were against us. I actually consulted, Tom A., and he did recco the HED Black Ardennes+ wheels. Unfortunately, HED was out of stock at the time, so we went with the regular Ardennes+ wheels with the Kool Stop pads.

My wife is one of the top Masters Road Racers in North America, but even she will admit, a bit nervous on big descents. The regular HED Ardennes+ with the Kool Stop pads worked extremely well! She ended up 7th overall among the women and in 3rd place and on the podium in the Masters Category.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I have a set of Jet 6+ and bought a set of Jet 4+. When I picked up the 4's, I looked at the Black series but decided not to buy them.. In the end, the additional cost and reading that for some people the brake track treatment wore off after riding in wet or wet and sandy weather was enough for me to not spend the money.

Where did you read this?

This isn't possible, the brake tracks are machined into the aluminum. Mine have 1,000 miles on them just fine, I know a couple people with 10x that many with no wear or discoloration. I would like to see pictures of them, in fact I am sure HED would like to see them more.

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.. if parts last longer than someone expects, maybe they were treated fine .. if parts last much longer than some expect, maybe they were not ridden enough .. this is my blacks rw with 8k mls of riding in all conditions treated with KoolStops Dura Type2 triple compound pads .. scratches only appeared during some of the last rides in winter wet conditions .. to stop and check the pads when a scratch is heard is too late, it's already in ..



.. there are some training wheels, they do their spare work from now on to save the big fun for the spring ..

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I don't remember the forums I saw this on specifically but that it was on other bike related forums that came up via google search (Hed Jet Black durability). It seems that people are claiming to have experience the same issue with the Mavic exalith brake track treatment as well. I made the decision not to purchase the Hed Jet Black wheels back in April, so that is why my memory is fuzzy. The people that claimed to have issues with durability could be full of crap; but I lived in an area where riding in wet or damp conditions wasn't an issue for me. So I played it safe.

see my response to DFW_Tri. I'm a huge fan of HED and not trying to discredit them, only sharing why I chose a second set of Jet+ wheels over Jet Black wheels.

That was my understanding too which is why I asked.

I have ~10K miles (or, more than double your mileage) on a set ridden in all conditions that doesn't look like that. I've only used KoolStop Black pads with mine though. The triple compound pad has 2 other compounds that are softer than the black compound, and my guess is they are more likely to get stuff embedded in them than the all black pads. Hed recommends to ONLY use black pads with the wheels, and to not use pads that have been used with bare aluminum (which could have embedded shards). That could be the difference...

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It IS possible since although the tracks have the machined grooves, the black color itself isn't a super-hard coating like PEO (i.e. Exalith), but seems to be simple black anodization.

IME, what keeps them black is using only black compound pads (I use Koolstop Black) which tend to be harder and less likely to get stuff embedded in them...plus the initial "bite" with the machined grooves tends to clean them off effectively when using the black pads.

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Interesting regardless. Personally I have always been function over aesthetics. I realize people like the Black look but you should really only get Black if you want better braking. Unless the aesthetic difference is worth 100s of dollars to you.

I haven't had any issue with my blacks like that but I have had my yellow brake pads color them with yellow pad but that is kind of expected and I probably should have swapped out those yellow pads (carbon) but heck the wheels stopped so great I just didn't bother.

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Too early to say.

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All pads my blacks saw were brand new .. first salmons were on, they made a red wear on the tracks. Maybe that could be the reason just the black pads are recommended by HED.? .. I tried to wash it up, then I started to like it because braking and modulation was amazing .. they didn't scratch (it was summer) but started squeaking with their lip sometimes after the bike was washed even adjusted with a coin at their rear contact .. a switch to the triple compound narrower pads without the lip worked fine until the last rides. With the coin adjustment the red wear does not occur because the black compound hits the rim first and mostly .. hm, I'll put the black pads on before the training wheels stay at home again .. my idea with the softer pads was, they are softer with grains, too and can be cleaned easier by the track, but it looks like that grains can stuck easier in principle causes the scratches ..

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Agreed on function over aesthetics. I think that the concern was that with losing the color on the brake track, that the brake treatment is being removed. I can't find exact numbers but apparently the brake track treatment is a chemical treatment just under the surface similar to the Mavic Exalith technology. At the time I lived in the bay area, where it rains about 60 days a year and didn't need to worry about the additional braking power.

Thomas- a little off topic here, but do you have any idea why Lionel doesnt ride Hed Blacks? Every picture I seem to come across has him on the originals. If they are a superior product, look better, and cost more, why would HED(whom i presume sponsors him) not require him to race in their top model? Seems like a bad marketing move.
I have the blacks and could not be happier. brake is amazing the look is quite nice too. and track shows zero wear after 2 years.
Just curious if you had any insight.

.. all the grains I found during deep inspection stuck in the grey and black compound of the triple pads, strange .. oh, and I forgot a half season on milage, so the Blacks are at 12k mls now .. since they don't look new anymore some time for pad options experiments ..

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I actually talked about it at one point in time. Frankly for Lionel, since he does hardly any out door riding, it doesn't matter as much. Even for racing it isn't that bad, it is training you really want the every day stopping power of the Blacks and on the wet days especially. With that still I am not sure why such a big athlete wouldn't be on the Blacks. Maybe it just wasn't worth the hassle. At the time I asked him he wasn't aware of the Blacks and the differences.

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