So you assume something, and then call out an organization for being sexist based on that assumption? Yes, I can guarantee all feminists are very proud of you

In general, that response seems often used by people who don't understand feminism. Not assuming you don't, just saying it's not really clear what aspect of the OP post that would actually apply (in its sarcasm) to.

I saw at least a few comments from athletes about having to "get used" to wearing the uniforms. I think probably the substantive thing is that while some of the female racers that did super league seem to favor suits with legs in other races, I'm pretty sure only one racer in super league wore a suit that had legs.

 

The men's kit was all uniform and the same cut/style though so obviously a kit style has been dictated for both males and females racing.

I didn't see males complaining about having to adjust to wearing a sleeved top compared to normally racing in a non-sleeved.

If they want to compete for the big prizes offered by superleague then having to adhere to wear kit produced by superleague is a price they pay.

If they don't like the kit, don't race the series...

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I just watched day 2 and saw that one woman with the shorts. So maybe I did jump to the wrong conclusion. I guess Jodie just decided on her own to wear a different kit.

This is ridiculous. Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf. When people overreach to find something politically incorrect it hurts the case for legitimate cases. This is an amazing series and has the best chance of achieve greater exposure for the sport right now. Watching it right now! If upper thigh makes one uncomfortable then watch something else.

As it turns out I may have been wrong. There is one woman with shorts. So my mistake. Sincere apologies to the race organization. Having said that, I disagree with your point. They shouldn't have to choice between racing an event versus not being treated like an object.

Do you watch ITU racing? eta: and know the style of uniforms that the majority of girls are racing in now versus even a few years ago.

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Exercise Physiology
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Yes. That's how I knew Jodie Simpson never wears a baiting suit.

That's becoming the style much more these days, as it's really become popular choice I'd say in the last 2 years. SL wants to market their brand, and it's evident they want a standard uniform style/design (notice men all had same style).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
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I love the style. I love SuperLeague. That's why after an 8 day business trip in Europe that when I got back to the US I was looking forward to watching it. I think you can keep the style and still give the woman the same opinion they have in ITU for either shorts or bathing suit style.

I guess I'm confused.....if a girl wore the leggings one, what option did they not have? Because a few wore the bathing suit bottom when they usually don't...that's what you based your thoughts on?

eta: This isn't as if they created some skimpy design to draw viewers in. They've all raced in that style of suit for years now. That's facts.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Post a picture of your daughter and we'll be the judge of that.

Yes. See my post a few up from this. I totally blew it. If one woman wore the shorts then it's safe to assume all of them had the same option. Maybe I should just delete this post.

you should. cause I think most people are tired of people like yourself making claims at the expense of others before knowing the facts.

Well, I think the larger point is still valid. Men can be butt ugly and be well compensated for their athletic achievements. For women, not so much. The better looking they are the better compensated.

If your whole point is to talk about the injustices that women face, great let's have that discussion. I think you just need to be very careful who you accuse and claim is creating an injustice. In this instance, your dead wrong on the company you are trying to use a point on to say is creating an injustice.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
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and men who are less charismatic and introverted have a more difficult time in marketing jobs and meeting girls. Sometimes life is life and may seem unfair. Grow up and see that. What about looks and men? brady, ronaldo, beckham....there are many athletes up there with them, but prettier men get more pay esp through endorsements. This is life and human nature, not a sexist thing.

delete. your wrong on this one so don't try and change original point to a broader one.

"knowing the facts..." There really aren't a lot of facts in this thread on either side, are there?


I don't think the original topic is really so farfetched. Maybe it would have been better to pose the thread title as a question. But is it so wrong to consider why a particular uniform is chosen, or why the guys aren't racing in budgie smugglers? Tim Reed does, so doesn't everyone?

The one racer who was not wearing the standard uniform is from Bahrain, isn't she? I'm *assuming* rather than stating as fact... maybe everyone was told to wear the same uniform and in one case an exception was made.


Sure, it's how things are, but it is a bummer when accomplished female athletes (or other people) are marketed based on looks. I'm sure someone who knows a lot about marketing can explain how having women wearing the racing suit style of their choice would hurt Super League brand recognition or something.

By the way, this is just a brutally inapt comparison. Seriously, not even in the ballpark.

 Men can be butt ugly and be well compensated for their athletic achievements. For women, not so much. The better looking they are the better compensated.[/quote]

what I said wasn't relevant to the original post. I was talking about this one

Seems highly irresponsible that you have not already deleted the post, or at a minimum, edited the title.

Fair enough, but just can't get with comparisons to people who are legitimized for talent and then have opportunities after that (when the issue is something else entirely).

It's the only reason I watch those races. Even my wife said - "#55 and #04 have the cutest asses on the planet". And she's right...

I think it does bring up an interesting question - why choose the high cut bathing suit as their preferred uniform option? It would at least be interesting to hear the thought process. Is it overwhelmingly the athletes' preferred option? How much choice are they give - i.e., are they "strongly recommended" to go with it, or do they naturally gravitate toward the suit?

And to whomever is trying to say that men are treated with the same scrutiny of their appearance across the board - LOL. I'd suggest saying that in front of a group of women sometime. Maybe you'll get bonus points if you tell them that they'd look much prettier when they smile.

They talked about this on Triathlon Preview show after super league. Emily Cox said the only exception was on religious grounds.

Nice "typo"....

The SuperLeague uniforms are uglier than sin. Next level fugly. The only female with legs on her suit is from Bahrain where the prevailing religion is Islam. I'd hazard a guess she was allowed better coverage only for religious reasons. More of them would run better if they didn't have massive wedgies all the time. Especially the Pole.

Its called a free market, companies for the most part make intelligent investment decisions on how they choose to sponsor and market their brand. If they believe that sponsoring Lebron James can bring them better exposure than sponsoring Candace Parker this is what they will do. You can also complain that men are paid more, which is true but they also bring in more revenue. Look at the NBA vs WNBA, why should female athletes get paid the same when their sports don't generate as much revenue or viewing numbers? The same thing happens in modeling, male models are paid drastically less than female models. Why? For the same reason that WNBA players get paid less than NBA players. You can call it sexism, but its really not. Its companies trying to find ways to maximize their profitability based off of what their consumer base wants.

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Given some of the comments on this post I'm not sure I blew it after all. If the only reason a woman could opt out of the bathing suit option was for religious purposes then I think that supports my point this it is sexist to require women that prefers to race in short to have to race in a bathing suit where suit rides up their crotch.

Apples and oranges. I didn't make any point about pay disparity. What if the WNBA said the athletes needed to wear string bikinis or the couldn't be on a team. That's the comparison.

You mean like the lingerie football league does?

I'm not saying that super league forced women to wear small bathing suits to get viewer numbers up ( I haven't even watched it). But lets assume they had. Would it be better for them to have let the women wear what they wanted, then the viewer numbers didn't come in as expected and super league realized that holding a womens event isn't the financially responsible thing to do so they just cancel the womens event go forward? Or should the organizing company subsidize the womens race go forward if this is the case? I'm not saying that's what would have happened but I'm sure companies analyze every possible scenario before making any decision.

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2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

It's not necessarily sexism. They clearly wanted everyone wearing the same uniform. Given a choice, a lot of women wear a bathing suit to race in so this wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Had they made them race in bikinis then I would see your point.

Find me a picture where Jodie Simpson is wearing a bathing suit instead of short and I will agree with you. She was clearly forced to race in a kit different than what she normally would wear.

Stimpson, not Simpson.

I'm not saying she wasn't forced to wear a uniform she doesn't normally wear. I don't know if she was or not. All I'm saying is that this wasn't necessarily sexism. That's a big claim based on very little information.

It can be the both the free market AND other things. There are plenty of examples that show that profit motive doesn't equal good/right.

And choosing to sponsor an athlete sort of has nothing to do with it. How about, if they said, "We'll sponsor Candace Parker as a basketball player, but only if she wears a..."? Still in a company's interest, maybe, but doesn't sound as pleasant as exposure market blah blah.

Is Super League sexist? Not the best discussion question, and obviously too big for some people's comfort.


But given the fanfare about Super League offering an equal opportunity and equal money for women, it seems notable that a decision they made (and enforced) would be -- and is -- viewed by many as detrimental to women's sport.

That's really the issue, though, isn't it? (And, there were some comments about trying to get used to wearing the suit... sure sounded like they wouldn't have chosen to wear it.). Doesn't really hinge on whether people would opt for the bathing suit or that you or I or someone else thinks the bathing suit is fine or likes looking at their asses etc. etc.

And yeah, if they had enforced suits like Stimpson and others wear, it probably wouldn't be discussed, just like no one is really talking about how Mola might have felt wearing a suit with sleeves when he usually races sleeveless. I imagine that if the women were made to race in leggings and long sleeves there would a discussion of that, too.

Ya, I guess girls should have the option to want to be more conservative. Not I guess, they should. I simply never saw it that way. I liked the kits and love the series. Ill concede though if ( and this is untrue for the series) the girls were not allowed to wear shorts, that would be wrong. Even though it seems silly to me.

I am pretty sure that the "getting used to the suits" that was being referred to was the sleeves, prior to Hamilton island the guys were saying the same thing.
Obviously every athlete was expected to be in the same suit (exceptions for religion). This makes every picture or clip we see easily distinguishable as being from Super league, that is a good marketing strategy.
Sexist? no, a larger % of women wear the bathing style suit in WTS and all wear bathing suits every day for swim training. The races are short, no chamois required so the bathing leg style would be the preferred option by most anyway. Uniformity, if one of the guys wanted to wear smugglers I bet he would be refused.

Superleague could squash all of this talk by just signing tim reed to a contract and having him race in the same suits as the ladies, since we know he is a fan of the banana hammock.

My wife commented on them all wearing the bathing style bottoms, wondering how that would be comfortable (yes the athlete from Bahrain wore the shorts, but she was eliminated so fast both days, you'd be forgiven for missing it)... Ultimately in an invite only league, where all of the athletes are under contract with the organizer, I'm positive the contract stipulates wearing the provided uniforms. Some guys may have preferred sleeveless just as the women may have too, or preferred legless... A tri suit, regardless of the shape leaves very little to the imagination, I suspect the motivation for the style of the ladies suits was less around ratings, and more around producing one standard suit for everyone to wear, and likely just looking at which style was more popular amongst those who were signed on to race...

The whole concept is built around consistency, hence all of the Super League gear the athletes were wearing all week (although Johnny Brownlee managed to attend some of the events in an adidas jacket rather than SL (although they looked very similar), and Blummenfelt wore that jacket that he likely stole from the Norwegian curling team in the rain on day 2).

If the decision was made in order to put buns on display, hopefully superleague smartens up... But I don't think their motivation was the same as something like beach volleyball, and more likely to try and please the greatest number of their athletes, based on their preferences (will be interesting to see if they allow legged tri suits to try and court Flora Duffy for next year...)

I could understand it if the women were forced to wear something they didn't usually.

But I just google image searched ITU women, I believe ITU allow both longer legged and high cut suits - up to the athlete) and the vast majority wear high cut suits.

Maybe Super League just wanted a certain look and ran with the most popular. I find it hard to call this sexist considering it's what many choose to wear anyway. Or am I missing something? I don't know ... the world's just too fucked up to understand any more.

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I really like the series too -- and hope it does well/is sustainable.

She obviously wasn't looking at Claire Michel (#13), but back to the point. . .

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Right.... and tri clothing doesn't leave much to the imagination... although you can see more skin with some vs. others. Some people just can't control their inner perv.

People will complain about anything and everything these days. I enjoy watching Super League personally and the unique challenges in regards to the formats, eliminations, etc. They appear to want a "uniform" kit on the competitors... the athletes can compete or not.

First off, this thread is totally useless without pictures ;)

Second, here we are, bunch of guys, assuming that the female triathletes wearing swim suit style tri suit are being objectified, but do you really know how they feel? How about ask them and see what they say?

From a sample of one here, my daughter races USTA youth elite, and during all the races last, she had the choice of wearing either, she preferred the swim suit style up to sprint distance.

That has always been my thoughts with 2 daughters and 2 granddaughters. Anyone, female or male, who makes these comments just needs to get their brain, eyes, etc out of the gutter!!!! As we know, in some parts of the world, anything more than eyes showing on a female causes the guys to go nuts. Keep it in the pants. Keep the hands off, and KEEP the eyes off. Why do so many always try to make things dirty, about sex, about such negative things? I am watching the race, not being a perv

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I think you are missing my point. How would you have felt if your daughter's preferred choice was shorts because she felt objectified wearing a swimsuit, but her only option was a swim suit? In ITU they have a choice. It appears that in SuperLeague they only gave a very narrow exception.I have no idea which women feel objectified wearing the swimsuit and which ones don't care. But they made an exception for the woman from the middle east due to religious purposes, which suggests to me that there is clearly some segment of women that don't want to wear a bathing suit for reasons other than comfort.

As far as hearing from more woman, I'm all for it.In fact, I think some of the comments on this thread might be from some woman.

To be honest, it gets SO so old hearing from some folks, who, IMO, just seem to enjoy spending their entire lifes playing the victim card.
Life is just way too short, smell the roses.

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Well, as a late 50s male I certainly am in no position to call myself a victim of sexism, and I've put myself in an odd position of being the resident ST feminist on this thread. Hoping some woman can chime in. Perhaps I have been overly critical on this matter.

I could spend all day playing the victim card on how ST allows folks to be attacked.

I could play the card that since I have the guts to ask questions I get attack and say victim.

I could play the card I get weird looks because I am tall, old and skinny.

Lots of ways, if I want to waste my life, I could worry about what others do and how they act.

Nay, life is way too short to worry about folks like that.

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Here are some pics of elite female athletes wearing outfits that are similar to the swimsuit style. Did someone force them to wear those outfits or was it their choice? Who knows but it is certainly possible they CHOSE to wear what they did for performance reasons.

2017 Boston Marathon https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/...8&h=1&crop=1

2017 ITU Worlds https://photos.smugmug.com/...D4%20DSC_6045_-L.jpg

And women are not the only ones who have chosen to wear "high-cut" apparel to race:
Mark Allen https://static1.squarespace.com/...9807558/?format=750w
Faris Al-Sultan http://www.slowtwitch.com/...gest_Faris4_2006.jpg

Your post jumps to conclusions, provides few facts to support your argument, and hurts legitimate claims of sex bias.

I am glad you are speaking out on this subject. I read this thread yesterday and honestly as a women, I was so disgusted by some comments (comparing showing your ass on TV to men wearing sleeve and having to adjust to that or not having as many viewers if lady had worn pants instead of swimsuit...) on here I chose to refrain from commenting. It's very unfortunate the ladies weren't allowed to choose which outfit they would wear and I hope this changes in the future because the concept of the event is great and I hope it stays around. I am very disappointed by everybody on this thread commenting on these athlete's asses instead of their talent, it's 2017 people come on...

You were so disgusted that you chose to refrain from commenting and now you're commenting? I'm very disappointed in you commenting on the comments of the hot athlete's asses. Shame on you...shame.

First we complain that there is no women's race. Then we complain about what they're wearing. CLASSIC

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Pretty amazing attitude, "Wear what we tell you and just be glad you have a race".

They're also racist because they didn't invite Max Fennell to race.

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I believe that Sameera Al Bitar was wearing an alternate kit that the other athletes did not wear. Perhaps the other female athletes selected from multiple options and opted for kits they wore.

EDIT: I confirmed on her facebook page. Yes she wore a kit similar to that the men wore. So clearly there is an option for another kit.

Additionally, I have attached some photos for your review. She is wearing a kit with a cut out back in the Olympics and during training. So I am not sure if she is wearing the men's style kit because of a religious exemption. Though I could be wrong.

Yes very unfortunate. Would you be able to link or explain where that info came from?

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I read it in a twitter thread where some athlete racing got involved but don't remember which one.

Ahh, Twitter! ;)

So, it is possible that the suits were designed by a female with other females, chosen by the majority of females and that's how it became the female uniform? With one or two preferring shorts and not getting the vote? I mean, that may not be the case but it doesn't seem to be an option that has been ruled out yet and the female contingent in ITU are pretty on top of the high cut suits given a choice in that format.

I think the uniforms look pretty slick on TV. They may have had more (or even some) complaints with shorts but all shorts would have looked just as good.

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Given they didn't even let women race the first time do you really think they let them pick their race kit?

But hypothetically, yes it's possible that happen just as it's possible they chose the race kit for them.

I don't know if they did. I think it's very possible they would. Even more possible given the added attention their previous decision gave them.

I think if a charge is serious, then the allegation should not be throwaway. If sexism is really bad (absolutely agreed) then accusing someone of it - with the serious consequences and 'mud sticking' that such an accusation entails - should be done with a little more insight than reading a post on Twitter or similar (not that you did the accusing but same theory applies to OP).

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Yeah note that in none of my post did I accuse anyone of being sexist. I think people were clear that the thread title should have been a question vs a statement and I'm not going to go down that road. You are right, maybe they were allowed, maybe not and I shouldn't have assumed based on info from an athlete on twitter.

What matters to me is that the kit seem more viewer friendly than racer friendly. As a female PhD engineering student, I know it's hard, even in 2017, for female to be recognized for our talent vs our image so I take these issues to heart. My original comment on this thread was more to denounce the strange comments I read on this thread and I shouldn't have simply assumed about the kits.

There's literally no Asians either. RACISM.

For sure, the thread didn't get off to a good start.

But as much a problem as people feel it to levy such a serious charge (what's the penalty for sexism again?), the shame to me is that there's not just a lack of clear info about the situation but lack of clear understanding/definition of the problem (if it there is a problem). There's nothing wrong with people wearing bathing suit bottoms (and I don't think anyone that understands sexism/feminism in 2017 would say there is). There *could* be something wrong with a decision to require every one to wear it (and what could be wrong is just a lack of consideration/thought, or it could be a explicit decision "brand" based on appearances of the women, not just the colors/pattern of uniforms). Understood, there would be more nuanced discussion if it was about how everyone was forced to wear a project rudy wingspan or ride 25mm tires, but still.

And of course, in a thread about sexism, a woman posts and someone posts a d!ck response ridiculing her not for what she said but that she said it at all.