Pink? The anti vaccination thread was more logical.

Which is worse?

I have my opinion. It's probably pretty clear by how I wrote what I wrote.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

The world is turning to shit. That the topic of your question is a real thing is proof.

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king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW

It's based on the crazy thread and this story.

http://www.cnn.com/...signation/index.html

I just don't understand how anyone can think that doing this to a child is better for them than assigning a gender to them.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

This

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

It's really amazing to me. I understand due to biology this is not a black/White issue for how people feel vs what they were born with which I think we had a huge thread on.

But a kid doesn't know what food they should be eating everyday let alone have the mental capacity to determine what gender they should be.

And if left up to them what they will choose is conformity once their classmates start mocking them. So if they have a penis, they will say "I am a boy".

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

They should amend the birth certificate to state "Biological Sex" and remove 99.99% of argument

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

It's like parents completely forget how ruthless kids are or they are in a fantasy land thinking that bullying is actuallying going to go away.

Yeah, but this SJW is going to change the world.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Thats nonsense of course. Trans kids and gay kids have problems precisely because they do not conform. Your opinions are in conflict with those of people who actually know what they are talking about; medical and mental health professionals.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Yes, I understand that. But what I am talking about here is the child that is "normal" but hasn't been given a gender identity by their well intentioned but idiotic parents. They will choose the path of least resistance. They will choose to conform.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

This has to be my favorite part of that article, "Doty's lawyer, barbara findlay (who does not use capital letters to spell her name), "

Does it really matter what "identity" you assign to a little kid? Pre-prepubescence, do kids really act that different based on sex without outside influence?


It seems rare for this sort of thing to be done by well-adjusted parents. It may just be what hits the news and a product of my elderly failing memory, but most of the time it seems that this is done with boys not getting their hair cut, playing with dolls, and wearing dresses. I'm not sure a little girl playing with trucks in pants with short hair gets much attention.


So on one hand I can kinda sorta see the point, but on the other it is straight up nincompoopery.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'll go with the first one, although I think "assigning" seems to mistate what most people do.

Yes. Infants show prefrences towards types toys in ways we would consider stereotypical.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

OK, (and I'm thinking this through as I type, so...) then it doesn't seem to require being "assigned" anything. Kids don't really go around checking their birth certificate before picking up toys.

Instead of jacking with birth certificates, which are used to help establish identity and kind of need identifying characteristics on them, can we just not fuck with kids who decide to play with different toys or do things differently than is stereotypical? That seems easier.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

It's the next logical step in new age, hands-off parenting.

Went from not physically disciplining kids, to not disciplining at all, letting them "figure things out for themselves", taken to the extreme. How dare you stifle your child's independence by determining their gender for them!

We are having a girl in August. A girl. She will be a girl and treated as such until such time when she may not decide to be anymore. Chances are, even if she does identify as a boy later in life, she will be much less fucked up in the head then she would have been had we let her figure it out for herself as a child.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I don't think that clears it up at all. From Websters:


sex
(seks),
1. The biologic character or quality that distinguishes male and female from one another as expressed by analysis of the person's gonadal, morphologic (internal and external), chromosomal, and hormonal characteristics. Compare: gender.


Then, if we look at "gender:"


gen·der
(jen'dĕr),
Category to which an individual is assigned by self or others, on the basis of sex. Compare: sex, gender role.



You seem to want a category that specifies the genitalia of the baby. Neither of these do that. In addition, we know genitalia of a newborn is not always fully formed and sometimes more than one type of genitalia appears.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

My son asked for (and received) a doll to play with.

Of course he also asked for (and received) a Tonka truck.

We have never told him what toys he can or can't play with. Now that he's at school he doesn't want "girl stuff". He didn't get that from us. He's simply conforming.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Usually when we talk about "assigning sex" in an infant, its because they were born with both or unambigous genetalia. In those cases its a huge mistake to decide for them. Parents often get it wrong and so far, there is no way to tell how to get it right.

Yes, i agree that we should not fuck with kids who are not stereotypical.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Cool. Thats all within the wide range of normal behavior.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

I agree with what you are saying. But, to nitpick and get into semantics, we do not "assign" sex. Even if we perform a surgical procedure on genitalia, we still do not assign sex. As shown by the definition I posted above, sex is determined by many characteristics, only one of which is genitalia.

We do, however, "assign" gender. As pointed out in the definitions I posted previously, gender is "assigned" based on a variety of sex characteristics, the primary one being genitalia.

We tend to use sex and gender interchangeably, which, unfortunately, is done in the law as well, which is a mistake.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

And I agree as well. Lets just not make kids go through mockery from their playmates until they "decide" that they are a boy because they have a penis.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I agree.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

No, I want the birth certificate to reflect sex, not gender.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

It seems like to me that the "we" you're talking about is a pretty small part of the population, I dare say exceedingly small. It doesn't seem like to me that it's all that pressing of an issue. If it's a number game, I'm certain there are far more parents out there unnecessarily fucking their kids up with religious teachings of one type or another.

I live in the same area as these people. They do view their world as a fantasy land. Modern day hippies. This kid will grow up surrounded by people who support the decision of this "parent". The kid will be home-schooled, and not exposed to the real world until they are fully and completely confused about everything they know and are. And then they will complain about how unfairly the world treats them.

It really is a fascinating place to live.

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Starting from scratch...

Well, first of all, in most states, the block says "sex," not "gender." So, you already have that in all but a handful of states.

Second, as I pointed out in my original response to you, "sex" is determined by a number of factors, only one of which is genitalia. Most have to do with chromosome and hormonal make up. Do you want all babies tested at birth to make those determinations?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I WANT THE TRUTH!!!

Answer my question.

Which is worse? Raise the kid normally knowing that there is slim chance that he/she won't identify with their assigned gender?

Or raise the kid as a total freak show, thus guaranteeing ridicule from his/her peers regardless of whether or not the child identifies with the gender their genitals suggest that they are.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

First, those are not the questions you initially asked. Second, those are loaded questions. Who is to decide what is "normal?"

If you are asking what I would do with the "Sex" box of the birth certificate -- I would leave it to the medical professionals to fill it out as they are experienced to do. Then I would raise my kid in the manner I saw fit and if my child identified with the sex opposite the birth certificate, I would address it at that time.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Sigh. Lets see if you can handle this one...

Agree or disagree:

Any child who goes to school and lets it be known that their parents have told them to choose what their gender is and at this time they don't know yet will be mocked by their peers.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

When I was in school - sure. Now - I really don't know. I haven't had a kid in school for quite some time.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I have a kid in school. I have heard those little shits talk.

Xhe would be mocked endlessly until they chose.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I don't doubt that. I just honestly do not know. I have a couple school district clients with transgender students. I am amazed and impressed with how, more often than not, the transgendered student is accepted by his/her peers.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

In a bubble, I think letting a kid figure out who they are and how they express their masculinity or femininity isn't a terrible idea. They'll find their level and identity. Problem is, pretty much no one grows up in a bubble, so the answer should be fairly obvious.

Although being breastfed by a person with a beard might be traumatizing enough that the question might be moot.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

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drive by one of the women's universities that have a lot of lesbians and you'll see lots of Jeeps...face it, your son is a lesbian.

Unrelated, but when we were choosing names for our kids, we took into consideration whether or not the resulting initials would be something that was going to be entertaining for their eventual friends and schoolmates.

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Less is more.

And you went with the entertaining I hope?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

All thoughtful parents do this.

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who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Alas, no. We did the next best thing and gave them Dutch full names, so that they're forever having to spell their names or correct peoples' pronunciation here in Canada.

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Less is more.

You are likely right about being surrounded by people who agree with this, but I don't think this kid will be home schooled. Just think of all the attention they can get and things they can change through their child in when they send them to school. I somehow doubt that these are the type of parents to miss out on this fun.

Ben

I guarantee they will be home-schooled. This is a very rural area. The vast majority of these types don't trust the public schools, and there are no private schools around. These same people are very much anti-vax, pro-pot (as medicine or recreational, whichever fits their current argument), vegan, naturopath, etc. The primary industry is still marihuana production (seriously, not a joke). This area is like a giant magnet for these people. I have heard it is home to one of the largest populations of Vietnam war draft dodgers. The extreme-liberal ideology runs deep in these parts.

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Starting from scratch...

I've got 1 still in HS, the other graduated recently. Between the 2 of them, I personally know of at least 3 classmates who 'switched teams' during HS. Given the total HS population, there are likely more still, but those 3 were involved in extra music/sports/cultural activities with our kids outside of school and had all grown up through the same middle school previously, so we already knew them. In one of the cases, we know the parents fairly well also through other common social circles.

Calling it 'normal' might still be a stretch, but like you I was quickly struck by how big a deal it wasn't around the other kids. For me the big fascination is how the rest of the family has to go through this huge transition process along w/ the kid. I'm sure there are some other kids who've given them a bunch of shit at one time or another, but aside from the most obvious concessions (one had to give up swim team, even though she was quite fast before) everyone appeared to get used to it pretty quick. For us, the most awkward part is still re-training the speaking habits (names, pronouns, etc); after knowing these kids for years, our kids start referring to their friends/cohorts by a new name in passing and we're like "Who's that?" and they just shrug it off like, "You know, <old name>" as if they just opened the fridge and you go "What's that?" and they simply answered, "You know, broccoli" (duh, with the typical dismissive teenage disdain).

As usual, the next generation is already way ahead of us on this one...

The arguments won't stop. The meanings of words will be changed to fit the agenda.

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War is god

WOOT WOOT - Fu Manchu!!! "King of the Road" is my favorite album of theirs.

I have nothing to say about the subject matter of the thread.

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"Du or Du not-there is no Tri" - Yoda

Well if that is the case maybe they will go away sooner than I thought. I can always hope.

No trans kids in my kids school that I know of but I'm still surprised by how accepting they are of kids who are gay, have disabilities, are foreign, etc. Stuff that would have gotten you ridiculed when I was a kid.

I find it interesting that some of my son's friends get shit for being on the chess team but not doing show choir.

Gold Star Award for you! First person to catch that.

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king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW

Oooooor don't even assign species:

http://www.cbc.ca/...ecies-less-1.2843332

Oddly enough they did assign gender...

Petition Disney to come out with High School Chess Club musical and you're set.

I think one of the differences here is that I'm assuming some of the difference is how popular the kids were. If they were doing a bunch of sport or other activities they probabaly have a good social group and are well adjusted.

My bigger concern is with kids like in the OP where they are not in anyway going to be adjusted to a normal life, be loners and then have to deal with this.

With all the shows and reporting now on it. It probably makes the kids view this as normal and it doesn't make a difference to them.