Phew! More Obama. Was getting withdrawals there for a while.

Hey, needed a break from all the anti-Trump posts.....

---

I miss YaHey

Obama is just a hypocrite versus a hypocrite and an idiot buffoon.

I won't deny Trump is an idiot buffoon. But at least he's not Hillary!

---

I miss YaHey

I didn't vote for either one. But after the election I was glad Trump won because I think Hillary belongs in jail. Now, I am not so sure. I have never liked Trump but I didn't think he would rise to this level of idiocy.

I'll give you points for honesty and being able to admit a change...or at least a shift...of opinion. Kudos. Not many are able to do that...yet.

Obama a hypocrite? Yeah, like most politicians and not really a valid response to anything Trump. Anti-Trump sentiment can stand on its own - he is just that bad.

What's the level of consumption that allows one to talk about climate change or reducing consumption, etc. and not be a hypocrite?

It seems like a charge that could be leveled at pretty much any one living in the first world unless you've taken to living in a shack off the grid.

I don't know what the level of consumption is but Shirley a private jet and a 14 car motorcade is above that level.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

So basically no world leader can talk about it?

Which country is Obama leading again? Did he become President of Kenya?

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

How bout they start skyping?

Seriously, all the tech we have these days and our 'world leaders', many of whom believe carbon emissions to be greatest threat to mankind, haven't gotten together during one of their seemingly monthly summits and said 'hey, how about we all stay local and do some conference calling? Lead by example type shit'.

I'm not one to say it's a huge deal, but Obama has a bigger carbon footprint in a month of travel than the average American has in their lifetime. These climate summits and meetings happen all over the world, constantly, with millionaires and billionaires coming in droves to save our planet. Maybe just cancel that shit, for a start?

Seems sensible.

Give the guy a break. It takes a lot of talking to lower sea levels.

Yes he could travel first class in a regular plane with a small secret service detail. I think that is what the British Royals do. Three or four cars should do it.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

If the goal of climate summits were to actually save the planet, then yes, that would be a good idea.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

Who determines his level of protection? Do you think Obama does, or do you think the Secret Service does?

Also, the lead vehicle shown was a smallish BMW. Do you think that was part of Obama's security detail, too?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

I don't even know what save the planet means. The planet will be just fine regardless.

So your saying the average person living in the first world flies on a private jet and has a 14 car parade when they travel overseas?

Obama is some helpless guy who can't say I think this is a bit excessive? Or this is embarassing couldn't we do it another way? Maybe the secret service needs some scrutiny if they keep demanding big details they create a demand for their own services.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

No but the former president is not an average person living in the first world. However, the motorcade is excessive.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

I think he chose where to stay don't you? A bit excessive?

Seems Obama, the "man of the people" is embracing the lifestyle of the rich and famous. The guy makes the Clinton's look like middle class posers.

Obama is just a hypocrite versus a hypocrite and an idiot buffoon.

As an ex-president, and a recently departed former president, how much of the travel plans and details had to be put in place, due to protocol and procedure by the Secret Service? I'm Curious? My guess is a significant portion of this Obama has NO CONTROL over!

As for Trump, he's already well on his way to being the most expensive presidency on record, by far, when it comes to security, travel and other details related to these two.

But he's supposedly forgoing his $400,000 salary as president - what a great guy! :) [sarcasm]

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Obama doesn't get to tell the Secret Service what is excessive, unless he is willing to give up the protection. The Secret Service determines what they need to do to ensure that no harm comes to the former President.

Do you think the Secret Service, much less Obama, configured that convoy? Did you look at those vehicles? I'm guessing there were two Secret Service vehicles, and the rest were locally provided (press, police, etc.).

Obama could have told the Secret Service that he was going to stay at the Holiday Inn Express in town. They'd have said fine, and gone and booked the entire hotel to ensure his safety. Sometimes something like a $10,000/night hotel is the best option for providing security.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Certainly agree about Trump. It seems he spends every second weekend at Mar a Largo. And then his kids are jetting all over the world. I looked it up. When William and Kate came to Canada for recent tour their entourage was 12 people. I would think they would be a terror target as much as anyone else.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

As I said, why isn't he suggesting to these world leaders that they should find better alternatives to these mega conferences, for the good of the planet. He's hardly the only bigwig with a private plane and a security detail, why isn't he leading from the front and telling everyone they should conference call and save the money, the fuel, the security costs for all these countries and THE PLANET.

All these fucking conferences over all these years and what, exactly, has been accomplished? A bunch of rich and powerful bureaucrats and celebrities making speeches about how we're all destroying the planet and need to do something, meanwhile they're destroying the planet and doing nothing.

So which is worse? Flying to Milan on a private plane and staying in really nice comped rooms to talk about environmental issues or flying to Mar a Lago every weekend, charging the government to stay in their own palace, and saying, "Fuck it, drill everywhere, don't put up those wind turbines anywhere near me, and why the hell do we need all these national monument thingies anyway? They don't make any money."

I think I'd rather the hypocrite who talks a good game than the guy who does all the same things and preaches from the anti-environmental bible.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Two interesting reads:

https://fas.org/...crs/misc/RL34631.pdf

https://thepointsguy.com/...rmer-presidents-fly/

The second links to the report in the first link.

So, this trip was to raise money for the Obama Foundation, but the taxpayers footed the bill?

I just went outside and turned up my pool heater in protest.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

C'mon Kenny. We're just poking fun at the Ex-President. The OP was a good joke. It's all fun and laughs...now.

Half of those people seem to hardly use computers. Politicians aren't exactly the tech savvy type it seems. I'm sure many many conversations happen on the phone. It would be hard to have literally no boots on the ground interaction under any circumstances.

---

----
Don't hold back

So, this trip was to raise money for the Obama Foundation, but the taxpayers footed the bill?

Well, he is a private citizen now, and, one would hope can do as he likes. BUT, as has been stated here several times, for some time he will, I am guessing HAVE TO have a very expensive security detail around him at all times, whatever he does, and where ever he goes. That's not his call or say, it's controlled by the U.S. Government and the Secret Service, and yes, it's Tax-Payer dollars.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

And as Brownie says, he doesn't need to fly to a different country to discuss climate change. Do you or Kenny have anything to say to that?

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

What travel is a former President allowed to do? Let us know what kinds of travel he can take in which the Secret Service will provide protection, and those in which it won't. Or are you suggesting that a former President should be given a bill for services rendered?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

So this is an excuse for wasting money and not finding an efficient way of conducting policy discussions in the 21st century?

See above.

Good, now we're getting somewhere!

I agree. What I vehemently disagree with are these massive conferences in major EU or US hubs that cost taxpayers of every nation millions of dollars, multiple times every year, so politicians and celebrities can finger-wag and say we've gotta stop killing our planet and get a free vacation out of it.

I know business needs to be often be conducted face-to-face, but again: these massive climate summits are bad PR for anyone who says they care about carbon emissions then flies privately and has a massive entourage. In fact I'd bet my 401K that it would be incredible publicity for any pol or celebrity with any clout to refuse to go and make a big thing about setting up a climate-friendly internet summit, but the people who really care about these things--enough to make personal sacrifices and concessions to reduce their own footprint--aren't actually going to these conferences anyway.

Perhaps other leaders do need it. Perhaps the optics are such that it is important for certain (ex-)leaders to be physically present so as to make domestic policy decisions easier. Perhaps returning to their countries and saying "We met with President Obama via Skype and here's what we will do" just doesn't cut it?

Why do Presidents make trips to do anything, where they can just set up a teleconference?

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Tiny drop in the bucket vs being able to successfully get policy changed. Obama is out there trying to push it forward while the Republicans try to dismantle it.

---

----
Don't hold back

First, I think particularly with climate summits it's bad PR. Second, look at the calendar's of big climate conferences, there's literally one every month or so across the globe. I bet if our politicians pledged to stop holding conferences on how to save the planet every few weeks we'd be closer to these goals they keep setting then ignoring at these important conferences where no decisions are made.

Your final question shouldn't be rhetorical: I think the cost of politicians conducting business is an absolute farce. The amount of money we spend as a country on travel for politicians is insane, and what Trump is doing is embarrassing. All of this political theater and grandiosity pisses me off, they're public servants conducting public business, obviously the security needs to be there but I'm never in favor of glorifying excess and I think a lot of the travel our various pols do is just that: excessive.

Yes, in the 21st century there should be more teleconferencing. Yes, politicians still need to travel and have big conferences to get leaders in a room together. I think there is far too much of that going on, however, these world-wide summits for the UN, for climate, for G6, G20, on and on, with taxpayers around the globe footing the bill.

And as Brownie says, he doesn't need to fly to a different country to discuss climate change. Do you or Kenny have anything to say to that?


This is true, no counter argument from me on that.

However, you could say that about any business. Does the bike business need to all assemble in Las Vegas in Sept. for Interbike?

There is a value in having all the key people involved in something in the same room together. I agree that it seems counter, to the anti-global warming movement, because flying is one of the dirtier things we do these days.

You could level the same accusation against David Suzuki - I think he's cut-back on travel substantially of late (I sense this has more to do with his age), but there was a time when he traveled the world, extensively, pushing the green movement and a low-carbon footprint.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

But But TRUMP!!!

But just so we all get your message. Environmental hypocrisy good, Presidential travel (if that President disagrees with you) home on weekends bad.

You do realize that trips like Obama's are why so many think that the AGW message, and messengers is/are a joke? The guilt ridden rich and famous get to fly around in private jets while staying in footprint busting, over the top lavish hotels and come up with great plans to take money from the first world middle class and transfer it to the political class in third world countries. Great message. Sorry, the fact that your cool with Obama's hypocrisy is enough to make you a hypocrite.

Who footed the bill? Is that an improper question to ask when his (and presumably his security detail's) accommodations were:

On Tuesday afternoon the former president delivered a speech on climate change at the annual Seeds and Chips conference - for which 3,500 people have paid €850 each for a ticket, The Times reported.
This has raised almost €3million for the Obama Foundation, which was set up to help further his project of 'renewal and global progress'.
Obama made the most of his two-day trip to Italy by reportedly staying at a sprawling $20,000-a-night hilltop villa in Tuscany and a five-star hotel in Milan.
He reportedly took over two floors of the Park Hyatt hotel - where presidential suite rooms cost almost $10,000 a night.

I think I'd rather the hypocrite who talks a good game than the guy who does all the same things and preaches from the anti-environmental bible.


Is that what you say about the preacher committing adultry?
That can't be true. It appears you are blinded by your bias.

Learn to read.

Point out where I said it was good or cool with it. In fact I called him a hypocrite. Being less worse does not equal good.

But you knew all that already. You were just being a dumbass on purpose.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Virtue signaling is important for these functions. That being said, the level of hypocrisy here isn't that critical for me. I mean, there are consistent justifications for this use of carbon.

I don't think former Presidents should get any Secret Service protection for free. If Obama wants to have security he should be paying for that. I also don't think they should get any pension from the government. I read this article that said it GWB has cost the government 800k in one year. That is ridiculous. Why are we paying millions of dollars to our mostly rich ex-Presidents every year when we should be using that money for something good.

I am not sure what level of security they have. They both ride motorbikes around london and i believe have been seen without security

Williams done search and rescue jobs in two parts of the country and whilst i am sure his home is secured he must have latitude in security on the job the same way harry did in his tours in afghanistan

No I'm saying that anyone living in the first world probably has an unsustainable level of consumption.