http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

And vaccinations cause Autism.

A guy with a thing against disc brakes claims the disc brakes did it. Oh sure, it might have been, but it's far more likely that it was a spoke, especially if it was a bladed spoke.

Riding to work one day, a high speed low flying bird flew into my front wheel. The spinning wheel cut the bird clean in half showering my legs with blood and feathers! Not a brake rotor to be seen anywhere.

I would agree that brake rotors should have rounded edges but that's for aerodynamics, not for cut resistance.

I'm no mountain biker, but I'm not aware of any outrage from that crowd being cut to pieces by brake rotors. I find it highly unlikely that the rotor was the cause of this problem. More likely a spoke. Is there any video evidence that it was the rotor?

I can't believe cycle road racing is allowed. Have you ever seen the damage the road does to a guy when he comes off a road bike? Roads should be padded, or banned, I reckon. (Pink?)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Uh, do they race together in large packs where multiple-rider pile-ups at sprint speeds are common? Disc brake rotors may or may not be a problem, but if they were your terrible analogy would fail to illustrate it.

From the few MTB races I've attended, the mass race starts can be mayhem with crashes happening quite often. Maybe that's only happened at the 3 races I've been to and not at other races, but I suspect that's not the case.
Did Doull bad mouth the road for the damage it did to his butt? Nah, he was all worried about the brake rotor

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Must have been a really rusty rotor. And Kittel must have been magically in two places at once.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/owain-doull-marcel-kittel-disc-brake-crash-abu-dhabi/

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

I think it's possible the cut was from some part of the fencing set up. A lot of fencing I've seen used for races have support posts with flat steel plates for bases. The way that fencing was upended it would be pretty easy to contact one of those.

Well I sure didn't know this before posting. What does he have against disc brakes anyway?

It seems inconclusive at this point. His statement on the video was compelling enough for me to take him for his word and start the thread.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Two close friends have lost tips of fingers to rotors. Both during maintenance.

Ask around at any shop that does a lot of MTB work. Should find plenty of stories from the mechanics.

Yikes! I hope those mechanics stay away from knives, hand saws, power saws, scissors, paper...

And I've skinned my knuckles trying to remove cranks.
My old boss lost his thumb on a fan belt of a car. Not like we've banned belts on cars.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

http://www.velonews.com/...-actually-cut_431182

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

There's nothing else on a modern bike that's anywhere near as likely to cause significant harm as a rotor.

A bike isn't a car.

Does skinning knuckles require an ER visit?

That's just re-stating the unsubstantiated assertion in question. What's this based on? It's not obvious to me that brake rotors are more dangerous than, for example, the chain or spokes. In the event of a crash there's lots of additional candidates like broken handlebars, frames or wheel rims.

Autism is still a mystery (probably really several things categorized under similar conditions) and in spite of what "they" say or don't say... they've removed Thimerosal and many other mercury products from the market. My grandfather has to get his Mercurochrome out of Autstralia these days. You're not going to get MMR out of a multi dose file with high levels of Thimerosal either. I like vaccines and think they're great... they can also be very dangerous and pharmaceuticals are one of the most powerful group of lobbyist, cover up artists... you name it with $$$$ to do it all.

On the thread subject I do agree with you... riding and racing bikes is dangerous. Probably the worst I've seen is a guy that removed three fingers fiddling with his front brake in a race.

"a guy that removed three fingers fiddling with his front brake in a race."

not his front disc brake, i assume.

weird, reading this thread, after i got back from deep sea fishing i had this idea. i put my Andean in the trainer, spun the front wheel, and, voila!

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

How come all the guys who are claiming they got injured from disc brakes get injured on the left leg? If it was the guy using the disc brakes getting injured that might make some sense, but it's always someone else who somehow got their left leg through their own bike and into the left side of the other bike.

Go to the other thread and watch the video of the crash. He was on his backside and Kittel was next to him before Kittel's bike mysteriously pole vaulted.

I don't know if it actually was, but from as far as I can tell it is highly likely in this case.

In regards to this incident, I've watched the video and I'm skeptical that it happened that way. How would his foot cause Kittel to pole vault? By rubbing against the disc? How much braking force could be imparted by his shoe?

But in other claims it has also been the left leg which seems counter intuitive. If disc brakes are as dangerous as people are claiming, shouldn't there be lots of right leg injuries and fewer left leg injuries?

I would say less rubbing and more blunt force. If you look at the Velonews video they should that the top of the shoe slowed down the wheel decently. Now imagine the brake cut through the shoe and hit a foot and all the extra energy that would take.

A better test for Velonews would be to grab a chunk of stryafoam or, even the shoe they had, and slam it into the disc while spinning to see what happens. The problem with their tests is that the momentum of their "cutting surface" is not even close to applicable for what a high speed crash would be like.

Kittel could also easily have hit a front wheel or just grabbed a hunk of brake and threw himself. I don't really know.

I believe the big incident last year was that the rider stepped down and the front wheel of the rider behind him went between his leg and his bike, exposing his left calf to the front disc.

I think this case is more likely than last years. I think the brake caused it, but I am not claiming to be an expert in bike crashing and trauma caused by bike parts.

I thought in the one last year it was shown that there wasn't a disc brake in sight when the rider was injured, but maybe that was another incident.

I remember that being said too. Like I said, I wasn't convinced last year. I am more convinced by what I see with this incidence.

Honestly, I think the safety issue is kind of a crutch for the riders that just don't want them. They don't really make sense in high end bike racing in my mind. It's easier to get them booted due to "Safety" concerns than it is because people don't want to ride what sponsors are putting under them.

Considering that no one knows as fact what happened, Titles such as this are inappropriate. This is becomming pervasive in our lives.
A more accurate description is:

"Doull hypothesizes his shoe was cut by disk brake rotor".

His evidence is "What else could have done this?"

---

I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

Stop trying to science us!

Was it mentioned in the other thread the goofy video Velonews did trying to cut stuff with a non-rounded brake rotor? Website link with video. Video only at YouTube.

Don't make me call Mark Watney.

No thanks. I have already come to fear his botany powers.

This incident seems to be getting a little silly with Doull using the word lethal and focusing on the little cut on his foot. His disc brakes didn't cause the crash so if there was no crash it would be a non issue. Why aren't people concerned with the reasons for the crash?
Also, a little wound on his foot and he's dramatizing the cut to his shoe. Again no mention of the road rash all over his body and all his shredded clothing.
Even if the rotor cut his shoe, so what? It's nothing compared to the crash itself and the related injuries and damage.

I saw that - why not test the rounded edge disc, and compare the Hope true-rounded edge to Shimano's half ass effort of rounding? And why not just create a caliper mounted guard for the rotor and call it good and put the safety debate to bed?

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Because disc brake aero would go from too bad to way too bad.

Nope. Guarantee they can make a disc fairing more aero than no-fairing. And it will happen - they just need to hurry up and get it over with.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

And keep adequate cooling?

Heck, Shimano is already adding small fan blades to their disc mounts to get better cooling...I wonder how much "power to rotate" that adds? You're not moving air at 90deg to the direction of travel without a penalty :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

It would need extensive testing, which I'm sure they're doing. But, one option is a cover that mimics the coverage area of the caliper, leaving the middle fanned section open. Or just shield 6mm around the edge. And/or leave the section of the rotor inside the rear triangle exposed.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

It still sounds to me like the most elegant solution is an inflatable rubber guard on the edge of the disc ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I'm holding off on disc brakes until we move to carbon fiber rotors

Dan, you really do need to get a "Like" button sorted

My monitor is currently wearing a mouthful of morning cappuccino!

"LIKE!"

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Bladed spokes are far worse. Handlebars without plugs, shift levers, aero bars with bar end shifters, chainrings!

I rode an event a number of years ago. A rider fell and a following rider rode over him. The following riders big ring went across the back of the fallen riders neck. 8 days later the fallen rider died.

After watching the video of the bike shoe against a really fast spinning brake rotor, I don't believe Doulls show was damaged by a brake rotor. And I don't believe they pose any significant risk to cyclists. I'll be using them as soon as my savings account allows the purchase of bike #13.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Your assumption is correct... no discs on road bikes then. Just the leader of a half fiddling with his front brake that was rubbing... I bet your wheels will smell awesome in a week or so.

Your burden of proof is pretty low huh?...and do you understand how that joke video "test" doesn't quite match the physics of what may have happened (i.e. Doull's shoe going into the front fork/disc of Kittel at speed)? Here's a clue...according to Alex Simmons, the kinetic energy of a spinning wheel is ~0.5% of the kinetic energy of Kittel traveling at the same speed. That's not simulated in those "tests".

Not to mention, for some reason Mr. Fretz only exposed the hard plastic toe box of that shoe to the disc :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

So I have seen plenty of videos of people trying to cut things on disc brakes and failing. Fair enough to say they aren't real world applications. But I can't find a video of one cutting something. Is there one? And I am being serious here, I just want to see one.

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Ian

I also want to see the test of the shoe pushed against the barriers with same force as the VN test. my guess is shoe still looks brand new after that one. it must have been aliens.

tkos wrote:

So I have seen plenty of videos of people trying to cut things on disc brakes and failing. Fair enough to say they aren't real world applications. But I can't find a video of one cutting something. Is there one? And I am being serious here, I just want to see one.

This should work for you (thanks to AlexS):
http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/668083779880/the-pioneer-mtb-race
FFWD to ~22 minutes


Looks to be a pretty nasty cut from falling on his OWN disc.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Oh no, that wouldn't be fair...you'd need to hit the foot of the barriers with the same kinetic energy as real life in the test...oh, wait...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

That really isn't much of a video though. Dude fell on his bike that wasn't moving and cut himself. I've done that too on my chain ring while getting a stuck pedal off. Also the "I caught a glimpse and that was what happened" seems a little unscientific.

I have no doubt a rotor "can" hurt you, but is the risk that much increased over any other part of the bike?

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Ian

Again, that's not the point...the question is does it increase the risk as compared to other braking technologies. To compare the risk to other parts of the bike is the literal definition of a "red herring".

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

There is a reason pro riders don't bitch about road rash: it's part of the inherent risk involved in their beloved sport. You can deduce from their comments that getting their appendages sliced off by a totally unnecessary piece of equipment is not what they signed up for. They would like to keep human tartar off of the menu.

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Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

In the video you could see he was applying a considerable amount of pressure to the shoe, for quite a while. Plus the rotor was not circular, rather the type with dull teeth, more like a bread knife. Road discs are normally round from what I've seen. Also. Doulls alleged hitting of the shoe against the rotor would have been a split second at best.

While there are clearly are differences between the shoe test in the video and the alleged incident with Doull, I think the information gleaned from the video, is a pretty fair and reasonable representation of what happens when a shoe comes in contact with a disc rotor. With all the other bits of a bike that can cause damage to a rider during a crash, in my less than humble opinion, the risk posed by disc rotors is a non-issue.

Your mileage may vary,

I'm just glad that no cyclists have ever been hurt by rubber/rim brake equipped bikes.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

A split second, yes...but in the most likely scenario of how the slice got onto his shoe and how Kittel's bike instantly stopped, that would mean that a large amount of the kinetic energy of Kittel would have been imparted into the shoe in that extremely short time. According to some calcs by AlexS, the kinetic energy of the wheel shown in that video is only ~0.5% of the total KE of a rider traveling at 55kph. Not understanding that important difference is a failure of understanding the physics at play.

RChung mentioned that most people have stopped a rear wheel from spinning in a stand just by gently touching their palm against the tire. No big deal, right? Now, think about what you would expect if you got up to 55 kph on a bike and then tried to stop yourself by pressing your palm against one of the tires. There would probably be some injury, no? Well...that's the difference in physics we're talking about.

Lastly, do you notice he's only exposing the hard plastic toe box of the PI shoe to the rotor...the slices in the Giro Empire shoe of Doull were in much "softer" locations...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Tom, I like you. You're about as pig headed and stubborn as I am. That's not easily achieved and is an accomplishment you can be justly proud of. Welcome to the club.

As a mechanical engineer and long time cyclist, I'm reasonably aware of the forces involved and the consequences.

and just to keep the discussion going, would a softer shoe on Doulls foot not have given way more easily than the hard shoe in the video? Have you ever tried to slice a pillow with a knife? It's a pain in the butt, because the softness of it keeps it deflecting away from the knife. It's only when you push down with the knife to the point of refusal, that the pillow starts to be cut.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

If you think that him holding a shoe on the rotor is even remotely applicable to the 190lb Kittel traveling 28 mph, you really need to brush up on your physics.

Did Doulls allegedly disc sliced shoe and boo boo on his foot require an ER visit? His road rash butt may have needed a nurse to wipe it clean but he foot was fine. Probably didn't even sting in the shower.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

And if you think a micro second dab of a shoe on Kittels disc is applicable to a several second burst on the trainer, you can borrow my brush when I'm done :-)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

You know shoes usually have feet in them, right?

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

Soft squishy feet? (relative to a steel disc rotor)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

You may need to see a podiatrist. If you push on a shoe that has a foot in it there's relatively little give. The relative hardness is immaterial, the compressibility is the issue.

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http://ironvision.blogspot.com ; @drSteve1663

Show me the video...attach a flywheel to the spinning wheel that matches the kinetic energy of the situation, and then jam a Giro Empire shoe into the disc with a human foot "analog" inside and see what happens.

Let me turn this around then...do you really think such a clean slice to the shoe could be created by being dragged across a jagged, rusty foot of a barrier (which he clearly contacted first with his back)?

Do you not find it odd that the mark in the top of the foot is EXACTLY what one would expect from the edge of a disc rotor?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

If it happened the way I think it happened, that little ''dab" of a shoe stopped Kittel's bike dead and sent him over the handlebars.

Take two blocks of styrofoam. Gets your disc brake spinning up to speed. The first one, apply pressure like they did in the velonews video. The second one slam against the brake like an instantaneous collision. Report back what happens.

But to stop the wheel, the shoe would have had to go into the spokes. Surely it's more likely a spoke caused the cut, not the rotor. And did Kittle go OTB because he heaved on the front brake (he's on disc brakes and instinct after years of riding rim brakes might have kicked in) rather than Doull's shoe being the cause of the abrupt cessation of forward motion?

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

It's entirely possible. I have stated before that I don't know what happened for sure. What I have seen, leads me to believe his foot jammed in to the rotor. I think Tridork is being entirely disingenuous with his arguments against that happening.

With the cut being on the inner half of his foot, and being mostly straight up his foot, I don't see how that would line up with the spokes cutting it. If it were a spoke, I would believe the cut would have been more across his foot than up and down it.

Kittel definitely could have grabbed a fistful of breaks, but a fistful of rim brake in that situation would still send you over. I would like to think an experienced and accomplished sprinter knows better than that.

No, it wouldn't need to go into the spokes. Besides, show us how a spoke could make that cut, including the mark on his foot that's the width of a disc rotor :-/


You don't have much experience riding disc braked bikes on the road, do you?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Several years ago I was heading out my driveway from my bike shed, to ride to work. I came around my garage and turned left from the path, onto the driveway. Walking pace. Then I turn right to go down the drive to the street. Traditionally I would mount my bike at this point. I click into my left pedal with my left shoe, while turning slightly right. As I complete the right turn, pushing the pedal with my left foot, I complete mounting my bike and click in with my right shoe as I ride away down my driveway. All good.This particular morning I hadn't noticed the chain had come off the chain ring. This meant that as I pushed with my left foot, intending to ride away, my left foot went straight down from TDC to BDC, and the bike came to almost a complete stop. Rather than my right leg swinging over my bike, it too went straight down. My right shoe went into one of the bladed spokes, resulting in a near identical cut through my shoe, to what Doull got. My cut was slightly diagonal, but still pretty straight (remember the dish on the rear spokes). It completely cut through the front Velcro closure of my MTB shoe and put a cut most of the way through the second Velcro strap. the 3rd ratchet strap was undamaged. As I fell, my knee bent two other spokes and sustained a couple of cuts deeper than I'd like to have go, plus some grazing. Blood all over my bike and my driveway. My right hip ended up bending the rim.

Sure, it's an N=1 incident, but combined with the video evidence of the shoe against the spinning disc, that lead me to believe that it's more likely that a spoke is the culprit than the disc. Note that a shoe jammed in the spokes of a wheel will jam a wheel pretty well too.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

See, that is at least a decent argument. It could be have been spokes, but I just don't think the cut aligns correctly for that to have happened.

While my spoke cut was slightly diagonal it was from say 11:30 to 5:30 on my shoe, not 12:00 to 6:00, it was pretty darned close to the same as Doulls cut. Because I fell strangely, that's how my cut happened. I was more worried about the blood pissing out of my knee!. In true HTFU style, I ran inside, put a bandage on my knee, swapped out the rear wheel with an old spare I had lying around, an headed to work. I still had time for my coffee at the ferry terminal before heading across the harbour.

At least Doull will get a new bike and new shoes without arguing with my %$&#ing insurance company!

Now I walk part way down my driveway, stop my bike, swing my leg over my bike and clip in with my right shoe first, then pedal away. I don't clip in my left shoe until I get out to the street (knowing that my chain is on). Most mornings I leave in the dark so looking at my chain isn't really much use. It's too hard to see at O'Dark Thirty.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Can someone tell me why everyone is so afraid of discs but not of cranks? They're both rotating discs of sorts, only one is way bigger and covered in sharp jagged teeth. I understand the disc rotates faster, but still. I guess I'm somewhat biased because I have a fairly large scar from a crash where a crank embedded itself into my thigh requiring quite a few stitches.

Saying that something else is more dangerous doesn't mean that the original thing is safe, but for a variety of reasons I still remain unconvinced on the apparent danger of disc brakes. Not the least of those reasons is that most of the arguments presented about why they are dangerous seem to be in the context of the pro peloton, i.e. very large groups of riders packed extremely close together traveling at very high speeds. That scenario applies to what, 0.1% of cyclists? Yet we should use it as proof that discs aren't safe for recreational riders? Or better yet, for triathlon where rules specifically prohibit congregation of riders?

Also keep in mind that 2/3rds of a chainring's "sharp jagged teeth" are covered by the chain.

So lets just put to rest this argument. In order for shoe to stop the rotation of the wheel it would have had to go into the spokes and jam against the fork.

On the 9100 shimano disc rotor there is no opening for a shoe to fit, wedge, and jam the rotor. Furthermore, as we know from many many sharp rotating incidents, any thing that jams into the open area of a disc rotor will receive heavy shear slicing. AFAIK there were no shear slices or missing toes from Doull's shoe. In fact I'd argue that his shoe can't both jam the rotor and be cut by the rotor edge.

9100 Shimano disc rotor. Please identify where you jam a shoe into this rotor to stop wheel rotation.

That's not always a good thing in terms of safety. Particularly on a fixie or track bike, where fingers have been taken clean off. Sometimes just by getting lazy while lubing the chain on a bike stand.

No one is suggesting there are not existing components that can cause injury. Chainrings can be nasty if you are unlucky. Unplugged bar ends can be nasty too.

But does different braking tech change the risk imposed by a chainring? That's a more relevant question in context of this discussion.

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http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au

If the shoe need not go into the spokes to stop the wheel how else could it be stopped by the shoe and still be close enough to the rotor tout the shoe at the same time?

And what's experience with disc brakes got to do with it? You clutch a handful of front brake lever hard and, disc or rim, what's the chances of going OTB?

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

Ummm...no. You're misunderstanding the orientation of the shoe to the disc.

Also, on those specific discs you show above...can you tell me what the additional "power to rotate" cost is of those cooling fan blades they incorporated into the mounts? Asking for a friend ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

http://cycling.today/...y-to-his-hand-video/

And yes I know it's not the same as a body traveling at high speed into a disc brake

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Because I can tell you from first hand experience that's not likely traveling at that speed on the road on level ground. Grab as much front brake as you'd like...you aren't going ass-over-teakettle.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Let's see him try doing that while riding the bike at the same wheel speed ;-)

Want to take bets on the outcome?

Apples and oranges. "Bro science" :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

All of these tests showing up are quite flawed and I agree that people need to brush up on their physics. I wonder if you could put a rubber gasket around the edge of the disc?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I'm partial to gaskets shaped like a GP4000S.

That is my point. If the shoe is aligned such that the cause of the longitudinal cut is from the rotor edge then it can't also be aligned to jam into the rotor and stop wheel rotation. From inspection of the rotor we see that a foot can't jam into the rotor. Therefore if the shoe caused the wheel to stop it first has to contact the rotor edge to product the cut and then jam into the spokes/fork to stop the wheel. You state (and I agree 100%) that the kinetic energy is high for the bike system, dramatically higher than wheel alone spinning. This kinetic energy also means that any contact of the shoe and rotor edge would never be enough to slow the bike system any appreciable amount, much less stop wheel rotation and throw kittel forward.

I don't care about power to rotate, that is a topic for your thread debating the technical merits of disc brake performance. It has nothing to do with the the cut to the shoe and safety risk of disc rotors.

Looking at the shoe, and how the cut goes deeper along the span of the foot whereas the front/toe box and upper part of the shoe are barely scratched, it appears that a circular object sliced into the top of the shoe, penetrating deeper in the area between toe-box and ankle.
Last time I checked, spokes weren't circular... so you better hold onto that brush.

Disagreed...
A shoe getting into spokes parallel to the rotational direction can stop a bike and a rider...
Given a solid shoe, this is less of an issue for the foot (given the large contact area of several spokes, unless the foot is also being sliced in the process by a small circular sharp object.

The plot thickens - the professional cyclists union threatens UCI

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/...c-brake-fears-316560

.......The union goes on to call on the UCI to “review their position” and bring in “a safety cover or measures that can prevent an accidental contact of the discs to the body of the riders”.
If such measures are not brought in, the CPA says that it will pursue “all the necessary legal actions to safeguard the health and safety of its members, who, as workers, must be guaranteed the adoption of all the appropriate preventive measures required by the legislation on the safety at work.”.......

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/02/27/152600/

The comments are full of people saying Campy is trying to sway the UCI against disc brakes.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Well it is the point of what I asked. I need to see a video of a disc brake actually cutting through something like a shoe in the way it is being explained.

My response has no herring on it. You showed me a video of a dude that was tired and fell on his bike that wasn't moving. I said, it is very easy to cut yourself or hurt yourself on many parts of the bike, while you fall on it and it isn't moving.

You won't show me that video I guess. But you will harp on and on about an accident that likely didn't happen the way people want to think it went down. It is called bringing bias to the argument that you can't get over. It is what Slowtwitch is famous for and why these threads go on and on and on and get nowhere. Which is why I have to remind myself to get my news elsewhere.

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Ian

I'm not sure if you read my account of my accident with shoe and spoke. If not, check the thread and have a read.

In essence, your summary of the interaction between a spoke and a shoe is incorrect. While my accident is an N=1 case, it does illustrate that a spoke can create the damage, almost identical to what Doull had. While 2 accidents will never be quite the same, the damage to my shoe in my accident almost exactly replicates the damage to Doulls shoe. Combining my experience with my shoe in my accident (NOT a disc brake equipped bike, just to be clear), the video of the shoe against a spinning disc rotor and the damage to Doulls shoe, I find it much more likely that a spoke did the damage NOT the disc rotor.

Without clearer evidence (from the actual crash), I don't think we'll ever know conclusively

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"