Not a Pro-lifer by any stretch but I'm sure there is some satisfaction that the VP attended the march for life. May not mean much as far as abortion laws changing but it's a huge symbolic gensture.

In the end, though, many (most) of these people are "true believers" who will never be satisfied until abortion is made illegal in most, if not all, cases. And that is just never going to happen.

BTW, I wonder how much trash the pro-lifers left behind...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I think its been a good week...I am a pro-lifer but I am not really for a ban on all abortions because we are a secular country and its never gonna happen. What I would like is the media to cover pro-life stuff more (I am dreaming) - no main stories on the Yahoo page this morning. Be nice if the country understood what we actually do allow in this country when it come to abortion (most would be appalled). There is a movie trying to get distribution for the story of Gosnel (sp?) but Hollywood will not touch it while at the same time they have supported distributed movies/comedies about moms going on the hunt for money to pay for abortions, but I digress.


In my dream world politically, the govt would stop all funding of abortions and let those that want it give their own personal money to fund the clinics...but that's just me.

Man, are you in luck. Since the govt never funded abortions. But of course, you knew that.

The government funds Planned parenthood. What do you think they do with that money?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

They are required to show separation of the funding for regular "funded" services and abortion services.

The govt also funds every level 1 trauma center in the country, most of which provide abortion services.

They also fund road construction which allows access to abortion services.

It's a bullshit argue meant that is used as a clever wedge.

IMO It would be nice if the govt did not fund religious organizations or make me fund them. That's a much more honest statement than the govt funds abortions.

Great comeback, completely inaccurate, but why let facts get in the way.

Go back to your hole troll

The Federal government has the Hyde amendment, however, my friend, inferior government may and in fact does pay for abortion.

Ruh Roh someone else getting pissed because I wrecked their narrative.

They give PP money. So PP doesn't use that money in abortions it frees up other money for them to use on abortions.

Anyway you slice it they are giving PP money and PP is doing abortions.

It would be nice if they gave money to organizations that help women deliver the baby and then give it up for adoption rather than PP.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Learn to type or at least review your posts before you post drivel.Why don't you link actual law where funding of abortions is allowed?

Set PP so the issue cannot be obscured. State level and below government can and does pay for abortion. His statement was erroneous in fact and he doesn't like being told that.

Too stupid to use Google?

Here is a super conservative organization discussing it.

https://www.aclu.org/...lic-funding-abortion

How do you like your crow? Fried, roasted, or stewed?

Um, no. It's nothing new for businesses to have to segregate costs and funding sources. The largest hospitals in the US also provide abortions, should they also receive no federal funding?

See BLEP this is why I said set aside PP.

I corrected the autocorrect. Happy?

Medi-Cal pays for abortions. Direct payment to abortion providers for services rendered.

Also, PP gets funding for the federal government. To say that government doesn't fund abortions is disingenuous, at best.

Let's say I work two different jobs. One job is running a gas station maintenance business and the other is driving for Uber.

My wife is paterners with me in the gas station thing but the Uber is all on my own. The wife doesn't really like the fact that I fuck prostitutes but I have a constitutional right to fuck prostitutes (it's written right in there, plain as day, right there where it mentions abortion).

So my wife is really pissed that she's paying (out of our household bank account) for my hookers. I simply explain to her that I only my Uber money goes to hookers and even though that Uber money would otherwise go to other household expenses it doesn't matter because it's magically a completely different set of money.

So obviously my wife now thinks this is perfectly ok.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

PPs main focus is killing babies. Comparing them to a hospital is stupid.

If you think otherwise then why does PP attack orgs that help women carry full term and then give the child up?

Want to know why? They are stealing their business.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I don't think otherwise I just wanted to focus on destroying his statement without any distraction or allowing wiggle room.

No, it really isn't.

But you can't separate the two. If Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center, which is the only level 1 trauma center in our area also provides abortions, then they should receive no govt funding, per your statement.

It would be very easy for PP to create a new business that only provided abortion services. They could then lease space from PP or anyone else at market rates . Would that scratch your itch?

See, now you're changing the subject.

The governement (states and fed) does, in fact, fund abortions.

I fucking hate the pro-choice crowd because they are liars.

I'm pro-choice, btw.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I think that this is a bad example.

Say you have your gas station business and you go inter-state. AZ has different laws than CA, and they refuse to bear the OH that CA requires. Maybe there is a special piece of equipment that you need.

You just segregate out your OH rates into two buckets, one for CA and one for AZ. If you do a job in CA, AZ is not paying for the prohibited equipment.

We have similar restrictions on business class travel and alcohol. Not allowed on govt contracts, so the expenses are categorized not allowable and don't go into our rates. It would be wrong to say that the govt is paying for our booze...

Dude, just admit it. Federal funds pay for abortions.

You're either lying or ignorant.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

The conversation/thread started about trump, so we we were talking about federal stuff which is what my comments related to. The fed does not fund abortions.

I can't have a discussion with liars our the willfully ignorant.

Enjoy your weekend.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

You're right. They also fund the gangs in Chicago and all of the murders there because a bunch of those kids come from welfare households.

They also fund opioids including heroin because disabled people use their SSDI checks to buy it.

The State of Massachusetts funded terrorism because the DBags that blew up the Boston marathon were getting state assistance.

The intellectually dishonest position is that the federal government funds abortions. You think that makes me a liar, I think your statements make you purposefully dishonest.

All you're doing is making a good argument to stop welfare, SSDI and state asssistance payments.

And I'd agree with you on that....

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Did you ignore the link from the ACLU? Or do you just not want to admit your
are wrong?

Just an observation, a whole lot of threads here seem to indicate a growing level of self-hate.

This is why we can't have a real debate in the country people can't even conceptualize small details like this. So instead of debating the actual issue pro-life vs pro-choice were debating how money works in an organization.

I mean seriously we're actually trying to convince someone that an increase in funding to one bucket of planned parenthoods spending means they can push the money they were going to use in that bucket to a different one.

Duffy s example was a good one. It's also like giving a donation to a charity and saying you can only use it for X, they'll just go okay that's great now we can move the money we were using for X and put it towards Y instead.

I'm in the middle for prolife and pro choice depending on the circumstances. But it's also something that will go back and forth for as long as time since there is really no right answer.

quote windywave]

Did you ignore the link from the ACLU? Or do you just not want to admit your wrong?[/quote]
Read the article - it supports CW's claim . . . unless you are being disingenuous re "mandates abortion funding in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered by a physical disorder, illness, or injury."

Congrats on the most asinine post of the day. Both dishonest and disingenuous! Sad!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/...m_term=.e9ddba9c0aa5

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

Read the article - it supports CW's claim . . . unless you are being disingenuous re "mandates abortion funding in cases of rape or incest, as well as when a pregnant woman's life is endangered by a physical disorder, illness, or injury."[/quote]
His original statement was the government does not pay for abortion, and that is patently false. He then made the absolute statement the Federal government does not fund abortions. This is facially false as well. It is much tighter requirement, but about 5-10% of abortions are Federally funded, just not the elective ones.

I'm not debating funding of an organization, I am pointing out falsehoods and certain folks don't like that because their narrative is destroyed.

Get off my lawn!

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

I wouldn't align myself with either the pro-life or pro-choice camp. I'd like to see a world without abortion & address the reasons we have abortion instead of simply legislating against it and not addressing the reasons it happens, knowing it will still need to happen in cases. Abortion rates have been tumbling in the US before Trump ascended.

The REAL life issue in my opinion is the issue of cradle to grave life rather than the "pro birth" movement disguised as "pro life". I.E. What conditions can we create to make life better for impoverished children so they're prepared to contribute productively to society when they grow up rather than continuing generational poverty and value all of society equally in that regard? Just being alive isn't the answer the pro-birth crowd touts it as.

Now abortion internationally -- that's another topic, as it's growing in huge rates internationally. But that's not what we're talking about here.

Come one man, that is not their business.

http://lmgtfy.com/...parenthood+functions

Do they provide abortions, sure, but that is not their main focus. And I am certain you know that.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/...enthood_Services.pdf

If anything, their main business is vasectomies and birth control(more than 10:1 over abortions) and STD tests/treatments (more than 13:1 over abortions).

Edited for ctrl v/v problem re: vasectomies and birth control

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

In your world the welfare budget would probably double...

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___________________________________________
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I don't even know what you mean by this statement...in your world is a person only valuable based on their utility? So using your logic (if I understand what you saying) shouldn't we start putting people down when the age, aren't all people on SSI/Medicare a waste?

Here is my bottom-line, and its a Christian worldview and I realize many here in the LR don't have these beliefs...all life is an expression of God's creation and its all valuable. I try not to look at a person and say they only have value because they can produce...for the most part we allow abortion because these babies would be an inconvenience...

The biggest problem right now is societal. Giving up your baby for adoption now has a bigger stigma than killing your baby.

And that's just fucked up.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Another bullshit statement.

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Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

I don't think that's true.

I think that, in the cases of simply unwanted or inconvenient pregnancies (not instances of rape, incest, or where there are birth defects/complications, etc) the reason many choose abortion over carrying to term and then giving up for adoption is because the later would be much more difficult, emotionally and physically, to the mother (not including the effects of the stigma of either choice).

I know quite a few women who have had an abortion. I know nobody who has given a baby up for adoption, of their own free will at least.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

And I know several women that have had an abortion too - there are emotional consequences to this decision as well as physical ones. And the pro-choice people never talk about this impact.

So after 54 million abortions we have cheapened life for our convenience, this will lead to other "interesting" choices down the line once the money to take care of those can't take care of themselves gets the majority uncomfortable.

Sorry for jumping in, I know I am in the minority here in the LR.

There definitely are emotional, and sometimes physical, consequences to having an abortion. However, I would disagree with you that pro-choice people never talk about that. None of the women I know who have had one said they didn't know what to expect in the aftermath of an abortion. I think, at the time, they saw it as the least painful option (mentally and physically), and even though there were pretty thoroughly councilled on what to expect after an abortion, how can one really be prepared for that until they actually experience it.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Of course they talk about that. It's just not talked about in the public debate, because it isn't in any way pertinent to what's being debated.

Every woman who finds themselves in an unwanted pregnancy will have some degree of emotional and physical consequences. It goes without saying. Some people don't suffer as much as others, and some live with lifelong guilt with any of the three outcomes (abortion, adoption, raising a child wholly unprepared).

I had a patient last week, who miscarried and hemorrhaged at 16 weeks. It was a desired pregnancy, would have been her first childbirth. She had six prior elective abortions. You could have measured the sympathy for her among the ICU staff in a thimble. The vast majority of the staff with whom I spoke are pro-choice.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Not to take away from your inaccurate argument in regards to the feds paying for abortion, but I have to ask; which religious organization are you or the feds funding?

I used to attend that rally every year as a kid, bussed in from NJ with my Pentecostal church/school, so I tend to follow this rally with some interest. It was a major event for them to have the Vice President speak, and it's a little curious that it hasn't happened before.

As a pro-choice with conditions advocate, a health care provider, and a pragmatist, I was disappointed with his action on the Global Gag Rule, and with the administration's characterization of what it would accomplish. People who support these policies don't need feel-good fluff; they need to be told precisely what they accomplish, and what the net results look like, historically, when they're enacted.

Pro-lifers what to end abortion. Logic would follow that they want to reduce the number of abortions as long as they remain legal. Policies that produce a net increase in abortion, and human suffering, need to be fleshed out and debated honestly, and it does a disservice to everyone who cares about the issue to mislead people as to what the policy actually accomplishes.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

learn to spell yourself........ its argument.

Maybe the governments should put a focus on personal responsibility instead of saying ok, you made a mistake, just kill him/ her.

Naaa, we need abortion of demand. It is just too hard for a woman or man to use birth control. And birth control is so hard to come by. I'm not pro-choice or pro-life. I am like the majority of American's polled who are not in favor of abortion being illegal but I also don't believe in an abortion free for all, which is where the pro-choice crowd want this to go.

Maybe it is time for the woman's movement, and the left in general to grow up.

"I also don't believe in an abortion free for all, which is where the pro-choice crowd want this to go"

Reference my previous comment about honest debate.

You are part of the problem.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W