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Are there any Democrats here who can defend this?
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Here is the first page of an article about Michael Steele. Mr. Steele is Maryland's Lt. Governor. I have met Mr. Steele and had the opportunity to speak with him. Based upon my brief visit with him and on what has been reported, he appears to be a straight forward and fairly reasonable moderate to conservative Republican.

I find the Democrats' behavior towards Mr. Steele abhorrent. Are there any Democrats here who can defend this?

'Party trumps race' for Steele foes

By S.A. Miller
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 2, 2005




Black Democratic leaders in Maryland say that racially tinged attacks against Lt. Gov. Michael S. Steele in his bid for the U.S. Senate are fair because he is a conservative Republican.
Such attacks against the first black man to win a statewide election in Maryland include pelting him with Oreo cookies during a campaign appearance, calling him an "Uncle Tom" and depicting him as a black-faced minstrel on a liberal Web log.
Operatives for the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee (DSCC) also obtained a copy of his credit report -- the only Republican candidate so targeted.
But black Democrats say there is nothing wrong with "pointing out the obvious."
"There is a difference between pointing out the obvious and calling someone names," said a campaign spokesman for Kweisi Mfume, a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate and former president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
State Sen. Lisa A. Gladden, a black Baltimore Democrat, said she does not expect her party to pull any punches, including racial jabs at Mr. Steele, in the race to replace retiring Democratic U.S. Sen. Paul S. Sarbanes.
"Party trumps race, especially on the national level," she said. "If you are bold enough to run, you have to take whatever the voters are going to give you. It's democracy, perhaps at its worse, but it is democracy."
Delegate Salima Siler Marriott, a black Baltimore Democrat, said Mr. Steele invites comparisons to a slave who loves his cruel master or a cookie that is black on the outside and white inside because his conservative political philosophy is, in her view, anti-black.
"Because he is a conservative, he is different than most public blacks, and he is different than most people in our community," she said. "His politics are not in the best interest of the masses of black people."
During the 2002 campaign, Democratic supporters pelted Mr. Steele with Oreo cookies during a gubernatorial debate at Morgan State University in Baltimore.
In 2001, Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller Jr. called Mr. Steele an "Uncle Tom," when Mr. Steele headed the state Republican Party. Mr. Miller, Prince George's County Democrat, later apologized for the remark.
"That's not racial. If they call him the "N' word, that's racial," Mrs. Marriott said. "Just because he's black, everything bad you say about him isn't racial."

The following link will take you to the whole article: http://www.washingtontimes.com/...101-104932-4054r.htm
Last edited by: Brick: Nov 2, 05 7:45
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Brick] [ In reply to ]
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I just read that myself. Unelievable and dispicable. Can you imagine the outrage if the circumstances were reversed and Steele was a democrat with republicans making these comments? I hope he kicks ass and wins the seat.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [armytriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I guess it isnt quite as bad as the Bush campaign doing telephone inquirys in South Carolina asking If the person called knew that Mcain fathered Black Children.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Brick] [ In reply to ]
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Of course not. Then again, everything is not always what it seems. Steele unfairly reacted by smearing the Democratic party for the actions of a blogger (note: liberal != Democrat), when in fact the Democrats reacted by pulling advertising from the web site, and generally disagreeing with it (and other things).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...02702115.html?sub=AR

"The Steele depiction was "extremely offensive and distasteful and has no place in politics or in any other aspect of public discourse," said Derek Walker of the Maryland Democratic Party."

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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Can't you stay on topic for even one post?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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So, you think this OK and are defending it?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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What about the rest of the Democrats quoted in the article?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Brick] [ In reply to ]
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"So, you think this OK and are defending it?"

Boy you read alot into my post. My point was both partys have a "win at any cost" attitude That is bad for America. Dont be so quick to be insulted. your (and my) party do it too.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, but when stuff like the alleged "Bush campaign" calls happen, they get criticized by other Republicans.

So where is the Democratic criticism?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Brick] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
What about the rest of the Democrats quoted in the article?
Is there a particular quote you find offensive? Reading the actual quotes (not the descriptions of what the person quoted said), I don't find anything offensive (except perhaps the "Uncle Tom" bit). I see no problem with black Democrats criticising a black Republican because his policy stances are seen as antithetical to the good of the black community. I think "party trumps race" is fine; do you think an entire racial group should act as one? I'm not going to defend someone of my ethnicity simply because we share that trait.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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"Yes, but when stuff like the alleged "Bush campaign" calls happen, they get criticized by other Republicans."

I never heard any other republican, besides me, critisize this tactic. Did you critisize it? Are you saying this tactic is wrong? Are you saying the Bush camp was wrong to do that to McCain?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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I think calling him Uncle Tom is offensive. I think throwing Oreos at him is offensive. I think Senator Gladden saying racial jabs at him are acceptable is offensive. I think Delegate Marriot saying that he invites comparisons to a slave who loves his cruel master is offensive. I think that saying he's white on the inside because his conservative political views are anti-black is offensive.

Don't you?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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I never heard any other republican, besides me, critisize this tactic.

jhc criticized it. I'd criticize it, but I'm not a republican, so maybe that doesn't count.

Have you ever heard a republican defend it?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a particular quote you find offensive? Reading the actual quotes (not the descriptions of what the person quoted said), I don't find anything offensive (except perhaps the "Uncle Tom" bit).

Maybe I interpreted the article differently than you. It seemed clear to me that the Democrats quoted in the article were defending the propriety of the race-based attacks on Mr. Steele. I was asking what you thought of their position. Maybe you did not read their quotes as defending the attacks.

I see no problem with black Democrats criticising a black Republican because his policy stances are seen as antithetical to the good of the black community. I think "party trumps race" is fine; do you think an entire racial group should act as one? I'm not going to defend someone of my ethnicity simply because we share that trait.

I agree with you that race should not hinder a party's ability to criticize. If you don't like Mr. Steele's positions debate those positions without regard to race. However, that is exactly what the Democrats are not doing. They are attacking him because he is black and does not share views they think all black people should hold.
Last edited by: Brick: Nov 2, 05 8:37
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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Of course such tactics are wrong. If it actually happened, those who did it should be ashamed.

I am not sure what the term "Bush Camp" means. If it happened, it was probably Bush supporters. I never heard of a tie back to the actual campaign, but such connections would be unfortunate at best.

In that same campaign, McCain also distanced himself from some rather shameful campaign literature as "not from his campaign" despite its having the words paid for by the McCain for President Committee.

This is just democracy. This stuff happens. What is amazing about the article is that racist politics seems to be considered all right by Democrats. That is a big distinction.

If that stuff was done by a few discredited lunes, it wouldn't be worth the newsprint.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Silence on something like that is as bad as defending it IMHO.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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Boy you read alot into my post. My point was both partys have a "win at any cost" attitude That is bad for America. Dont be so quick to be insulted. your (and my) party do it too.


You still have not said whether you are defending the race-based attacks on Mr. Steele. I did not and do not defend the attacks on McCain. I think they were abhorrent. Your deflection is not a denunciation of the attacks. Rather, it appears to me to be a tacit approval of the attacks in the manner of "what is good for the goose is good for the gander." Can you denounce these tactics? Can you say that the Democrats who support them are wrong?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [elund] [ In reply to ]
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Silence on something like that is as bad as defending it IMHO.

Except it isn't. The Rovian tactics were widely condemned, and I didn't hear anybody step up to defend them- instead people pretty much let the condemnation stand. Which represents at least tacit agreement with the condemnation. (Not to mention, again, that many Republicans did, in fact, criticize the tactics.)

That's a good bit different than actually defending these types of tactics, and claiming they're legitimate, which is what the Dems in Maryland are doing.

Come to think of it, it's kind of what you're doing, isn't it? Instead of condemning the Maryland race baiting, and instead of merely standing by and letting others criticize it, you're trying to deflect attention away from it. Very noble.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Brick] [ In reply to ]
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"Can you denounce these tactics? Can you say that the Democrats who support them are wrong?"



YES.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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"Come to think of it, it's kind of what you're doing, isn't it? Instead of condemning the Maryland race baiting, and instead of merely standing by and letting others criticize it, you're trying to deflect attention away from it. Very noble."

I can and will condemn it. I thought i was just adding to the discussion, not deflecting it. Is this where I yell "But Clinton got a blowjob?"

I believe in another post I said both partys do it and it is bad for America.

Yo are easily distracted arent you.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Except it isn't. The Rovian tactics were widely condemned, and I didn't hear anybody step up to defend them- instead people pretty much let the condemnation stand. Which represents at least tacit agreement with the condemnation. (Not to mention, again, that many Republicans did, in fact, criticize the tactics.)


I think you may be overemphasizing the condemnation a bit. The typical response that I've read/heard is neartly summarized by Art's post:

This is just democracy. This stuff happens.

But I think we agree that Rove's smear tactics deserve condemnation, and the smear tactics against Steele likewise deserve condemnation

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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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What sets this apart is from the typical political smear is the pure hatered of it. I won't call it racist because it is impossible to be racist against your own race but it is a prime example why I refuse to take any raciai conversations or any of the race leaders for anything other then crap.

Clean up your own back yard then attack me.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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"I won't call it racist because it is impossible to be racist against your own race "

It is? Since when?

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Ken, did you actually read the article? You aren't suggesting something like this is not offensive:

"Delegate Salima Siler Marriott, a black Baltimore Democrat, said Mr. Steele invites comparisons to a slave who loves his cruel master or a cookie that is black on the outside and white inside because his conservative political philosophy is, in her view, anti-black. "

Or pelting Mr. Steele with Oreo cookies?
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [ajfranke] [ In reply to ]
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[reply]Ken, did you actually read the article? You aren't suggesting something like this is not offensive:

"Delegate Salima Siler Marriott, a black Baltimore Democrat, said Mr. Steele invites comparisons to a slave who loves his cruel master or a cookie that is black on the outside and white inside because his conservative political philosophy is, in her view, anti-black. "

Or pelting Mr. Steele with Oreo cookies?[/reply]

Don't tell me you believe everything you read, all of a sudden. I asked which quote (not description) he found offensive. Go back and read the words I actually wrote.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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OK, pretty fine distinction. Kind of like Wilson going to Niger as a result of a request from Chenney's office.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Brick] [ In reply to ]
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blah blah blah...the Republicans are jerks...no they aren't, the Democrats are...blah blah blah...

The real story here is that the blacks think that a black man having conservative values is selling out. IMO, neither party has much to be proud about w/regards to the status of the poor in this country, and if poor minorities are waiting for the government to solve their problems, they are in for a long wait.

I don't think either party has the stones to take steps necessary to truly combat poverty.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [kdw] [ In reply to ]
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This article said - "Delegate Salima Siler Marriott, a black Baltimore Democrat, said Mr. Steele invites comparisons to a slave who loves his cruel master or a cookie that is black on the outside and white inside because his conservative political philosophy is, in her view, anti-black."

I really do not understand what is wrong with this if these people have a valid argument that this guys politics are anti-black.

if you were a member of a historically subjugated group and one of the members of that group was, in your mind, helping those who do the subjugating would you not react angrily and in a less than 100 percent rational way? I say its likely.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [SOUP!] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure conservative blacks don't feel they are subjugating other blacks. It's a stupid comparison.

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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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whether or not the guy thinks he's an uncle tom is meaningless if others think he is.

it's all right for people to have different opinions and even be angry about them
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [SOUP!] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I think you're the next Hitler, do you think it's all right for me to have that opinion? If you were a public figure, would you like me making those statements to the press?



There's nothing to be gained by stupid comments like that, and this notion that "every black person should be on the far left politically or else they are slaves sucking up to their masters" is stupid, wrong, and offensive, no matter if some "others" believe it to be so.

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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [SOUP!] [ In reply to ]
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"I really do not understand what is wrong with this if these people have a valid argument that this guys politics are anti-black."

I take it that you believe that the Democratic party's policies have been historically "pro-black". Bang up job they have been doing so far. Again, if you think that either party has been doing a great job helping the plight of the poor or the minorities in this country, you haven't been paying attention.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [kdw] [ In reply to ]
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you nutsos can't think straight can you? i haven't said a word about the democrats doing better than the republicans in race politics yet that's what you come at me with?

if a black group thinks another black group is acting like a load of race traitors who the hell says its the business of a bunch of white triathletes?

fact is none of us know a damned thing about why they feel this way about the man, you just jump to all kinds of dumbass conclusions, throw dumb junk like "what if i called you hiter?" around and act like mental midgets.

we don't know, we have no authority to make an intelligent assessment of what's going on here
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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racism

n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races 2: discriminatory or abusive behavior towards members of another race [syn: racialism, racial discrimination]


Black on black hate is just simple hatered of those who dare to not follow in lock step. That makes a lot of black leaders dick heads not racist.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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How about this one out of the dictionary on my desk:



Racism "A doctrine that inherent differencesamong the various humand races determine cultural or invidual achievement."



I don't buy the argument that a Black can't be racist against other blacks or say racist things about other blacks.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [SOUP!] [ In reply to ]
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fact is none of us know a damned thing about why they feel this way about the man, you just jump to all kinds of dumbass conclusions, throw dumb junk like "what if i called you hiter?" around and act like mental midgets.



Saying: XXX is not good for black people is one thing. Saying XXX is a slave cudlding up with his master is another, and it's offensive.

Saying XXX is not good for Jewish people is once thing. Saying XXX is Hitler is annother, and it's offensive.

Do you comprehend how hyperbolic comparisons to highly sensitive topics are offensive and unneccesary?

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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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"I see no problem with black Democrats criticising a black Republican because his policy stances are seen as antithetical to the good of the black community."

Really?

So only black democrats know what should "seen" as "good" for the "black community"?

What about listening to diverse opinions? Or are you not allowed to have an opinion if you are a black conservative?


**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [mojozenmaster] [ In reply to ]
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you're allowed to have an opinion, and you're also allowed to be criticized or even derided for having them
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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My point still stands as the truth. "differencesamong the various humand races" it still refers to diffrent races. Blacks are the same race so a black can not be racist against other blacks because they are the same race.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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"My point still stands as the truth"

Well, glad to know you are the arbiter of what's the truth and what's not.



""differencesamong the various humand races" it still refers to diffrent races. Blacks are the same race so a black can not be racist against other blacks because they are the same race. "

Huh? That doesn't make any sense. Are you really trying to say if blacks practice policies or believe in ideas that set blacks apart based solely on race, it isn't racism? You're wrong. Anyone can be a racist, and that racism can be directed at any group, including their own.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Are there any Democrats here who can defend this? [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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big·ot Audio pronunciation of "bigot" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt)
n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


This is the words you are looking for. The Democrats are being bigots against people of their own race if those people choose not to march lock step with them.

Racism is te belief your race is superoir then other diffrent races as your defintion pointed out bigotry is just hatered of a diffrent group such as black Republicans vs. black Democrats.

So yes I am the arbiter of truth on this one because you are wrong. I have proven how you are wrong using outside sources and provided you with the proper word for you to use in this case. If you choose to be a big boy and see you missed used a word, great if not , oh well.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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