There's a workout mode and creator that does just about everything TR does.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

 
you realize you can do your structured intervals in zwift right? like you would outside.

I understand that you can do structured workouts on Zwift, I guess the animation just doesn't hold my interest enough to make the switch.

on that note I also have a PS4 that I have turned on 2 times in the last year, not much of a gamer i Guess

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Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3

X2. I'm in the same boat.

There's two reasons I ride a bicycle: (1) to train so I can race and (2) to ride for enjoyment.

Trainerroad completely satisfies reason number 1. I feel like the graphics, etc. of Zwift get in the way of my workout. Secondly, if I'm going to be riding for enjoyment, I'll be doing it outside.

But, different strokes for different folks.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Not only does Zwift have structured workouts, but also every Sufferfest workout. I'm just starting week 12 of their 12 week FTP Builder plan. Raised my FTP 40 points when I figured large gains in FTP weren't in the cards for me anymore.

I agree to an extent. I will say that zwift has a great group of people doing races all the time. Racing in zwift can be super fun. It can also kill most workouts if your racing I the right group.

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You didnt mention events, which they're developing further as we speak


Hop on sunday morning 7:30am PST and do the ESS group ride.

Have to hold 3.5-4w/kg for an hour (4 laps watopia) -- a fantastic time, good people, good pacing.

When I do this event, i get so excited about what's coming in terms of organized planning, group rides, schedules, races, etc.

It's for some people and not for others, personally I like it but if it doesn't do it for you, keep doing what does.

jaretj

I like it but the big issue I have are folks who struggle to average faster than 21 mph on a flat Olympic race are crushing me.

How does Sufferfest work on Zwift? Kind of defeats the purpose of ProTour race video?

I don't trust estimated power figures, I used it on the Beta test and there were people doing 10w/kg for laps. Then i see people on Strava who have the KOMs and their outdoor riding is nowhere near as good.

Same here. I think the concept has potential i.e combining gaming with genuine exercise, but it didn't really float my boat. The graphics and generally gameplay, as in how you and other riders moved, seemed outdated and clunky. Perhaps you could argue it's superfluous, but considering how much you're paying I would have expected something a bit more higher end.

I don't use Zwift yet as I'm building base on TrainerRoad and like to watch TV during these workouts as it doesn't take much concentration to keep up the effort levels in Erg mode. Later on in training I'll be doing 1hr+ tempo rides and will try riding with a group in a Zwift race to motivate myself to keep pushing as I expect trying to hang onto the group will keep concentration levels up and pass the time quickly, whereas staring at a screen showing time to go could make the time really drag.

I could make similar comments about Trainer Road being overpriced and underwhelming, and was quite shocked when I found out how much TR cost, but that's what it takes to keep this small niche market alive. Hopefully, the market grows and both companies continue to thrive.

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Nanoo Nanoo

Yup good point. I might give Zwift another shot. Is it possible to have another trial using another email address or do they pick up your IP address and block multiple trials?

I personally don't know anyone else on zwift so I cannot compare myself to anyone else. Since my name on zwift is J Johnson I doubt anyone here has recognized me either. The rider on the bike (and the bike itself) is much bigger than I am in real life so it's a little slower than on the real road. To me that's a minor issue.

I'll warm up for about 30 minutes and if there is anyone near me, we may wind up riding together for a bit. After that I'm doing some intervals I have programmed into my garmin, then cool down. If anyone happens to be riding my pace at any of those time then great, but most of the time I'm either passing people or being passed.

I just like the variation during the ride, the graphics keep me entertained while some of the comments are just downright funny.

I think it's funny that people can average 24mph in zwift, but their strava outdoor rides are never over 19mph. Live the fantasy.

that is pretty much what I do as well.

At least the graphics keep me entertain while I am suffering; also, people need to understand that is just a GAME!

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

It doesn't matter. Are you gassed after you get off the bike? Did the time on the trainer fly by compared to "normal" trainer workouts? I'm having the best offseason workouts I gave ever had. That's all that matters. If you really care that your trainer workout match your real world rides, then run your Garmin alongside Zwift.

The game uses your FTP in conjunction with the Sufferfest profile. You are not watching a video of a pre-recorded race. You are getting the same workout, its just is within the game.

Where did you find the Sufferfest workouts? Did you have to import them? I don't see them in my list of workouts?

I've been with Trainer Road since Beta.. Used it all winter for a while now. However staying entertained has always been my problem. Staring at a graph on one screen and some video on the other isn't always enjoyable... at least for me. I like variety. With zwift I can do any workout I need to do.. I can just ride.. I can watch shows on another screen or jam out to music. So for me it's the added variety which wins. Plus the community is pretty cool. Doing a long ride with another person is fun.. much easier to maintain 2.5w/kg for X amount of time while someone else is gives ya motivation.. don't want to get dropped by them kind of thing. Trainer road is great though.. maybe I'll resub at some point. For now zwift is doing the job.

Comparing Zwift speeds to outdoor riding is whats funny.

I think people are still confused about all new offerings, especially virtual training etc. Let me ask you this: Would you join random Sunday group rides in your city if your goal is to prepare for specific event?

Zwift is social cycling platform, it is your random group ride of folks with random abilities, some will scream: lets go together at 2w/kg on that hill... together, don't speed up...

Trainer Road provides great first timer structured training, it makes you realize how quickly you can improve when following structured program. After you go over one or two plans, you will quickly realize the limits, it is just great to start with, and you will quickly move to PerfPro Studio or similar since it will allow you on stuff that trainer road doesn't.

While Zwift people will make you believe pros are training on it, we all know pros are getting invited in form of sponsorship. Can you train on it: yes is it the best tool for the job: NO

The best source for the sufferfest workouts (as well as other workouts) is the "zwift workouts" FB group. However, this site also has them for free

http://www.zwiftworkouts.com/

Enjoy the suffering

So is the people that are cheating by posting lighter weight so they fly around the course at 8w\kg. They're going to have a rude awakening this spring out in the real world.

I think the rude awakening will be when they don't automatically move out of someones way when they come up to them at 8 w/kg

Kind of on that point, I think I need to start jumping on the rollers occasionally after spending so much time on the trainer. Can't let the bike handling skills slide.

I just joined Zwift this week and have thought about TR as well. I have Zwift paired with my Computrainer and feel that my Zwift numbers are close to my real-world riding power, speed and HR numbers. My 2-hour training rides fly by on Zwift compared to my Computrainer courses.

I must say as a triathlete that is obsessed about maintaining the draft box, I have struggled on live group rides to follow roadie protocol of jumping on wheels, maintaining contact, surging, covering attacks and regrouping. Zwift is a great training ground for me to learn how to do this. I also like seeing watts/kg of the riders around me (even if they aren't 100% accurate). The group texting can get a bit annoying. I spotted M. Charbot out on a ride the other day but he turned off...so, that is pretty cool that you can "ride" with many other people in this make-believe world.

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Straightenin' the curves; Flattenin' the hills
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Coached by Mike Plumb @ TriPower MultiSports
https://www.strava.com/athletes/1149072 - https://www.instagram.com/thoswoods/

You can use another email/account to do another trial.

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Nanoo Nanoo

Zwift left me wanting in the training department. I would use it for "fitness" rides but anything structured was a no go. The scenes in the graphics don't match up to the training intervals and it took away the elation I have when riding in free mode. I'm sure there is a better way to train but then I'd have to put in more work to sync training plans to my Garmin and to ignore the fact I'm clearly going up a hill in the game but maintaining a recovery spin of 89w as part of my training session. I will also say I do not have Facebook etc so the entire "social" aspect is lost on me. Had they baked this into the application I'm sure I'd love it but I'm not signing up for a service to compliment the service I signed up for. As is planning my personal training around group rides that others are organizing. I like to dictate when and what I ride for my sessions and Zwift doesn't do that easily enough for my liking. For others I'm sure it's great!

To me Trainer Road is a cycling coach and a program that I don't have to build for $10/month. I've increased my cycling ability by 40% in the past 18 months and have had very little issues with "boredom". I think being engaged in the training is important to me with exception to long aerobic base rides. Those are easily remedied with YouTube, Netflix or Spotify in my case.

In the end Zwift is doing a good job and they've found their target users. Kudos to them for changing the GAME, literally!

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I have spent some time on both TR and ZWIFT.

TR is like a coach. Good training plans built in. But boring as crap.

Zwift is a lot more fun, so it gets used a lot more.

Not sure what to do either, but I actually use Zwift.. whereas trainer road sites there and sucks down $14 a month for an unused bar graph generator...

I've been of Zwift since early in the beta. I enjoy it quite a bit, especially with the workout mode and custom workouts now. I have my weight set correctly and I find the indoor vs. outdoor speeds are pretty comparable (I train in a hillier area than 'Zwift Island', so real world is slightly slower...). I like that I can either get into the game, or just have it on in the background while watching a show or movie. I also enjoy the races (even with the zPower/weight doping/incorrect smart trainer power). They can be a great workout.

One of the great aspects for me is that my main training partner moved to the other side of the country. We can still ride and race together on Zwift, and chat on Teamspeak while doing it. That alone has been worth the price.

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Creator of Zwift here...while we do pay a few pro riders (ie Ten Dam and Voigt) a very small fee to host rides about 75% of the pro's on Zwift came on their own. Some like it after trying it, some don't, just like regular people you find on this very message board. Ten Dam does 5x the amount of rides we ask of him simply because he uses Zwift to actually train and likes connecting with and building his fan base.

We also partnered with the Canyon SRAM womens pro team to help them find the next female pro who might be riding zwift, but that's just two companies working together vs a sponsorship, and the talent search was their idea they brought to us. Pretty cool!

It seems as if it's been mentioned already many times, but in the spirit of beating a dead horse:
- Zwift has training plans, workout mode, and bar graphs (in fact, Zwift was ONLY workout mode with bar graphs back in 2010, as its mostly what I use).
- Zwift has a very easy to use workout editor, and a huge library of community created workouts that are simple to download if you don't like the built in ones
- Zwift is cheaper than trainer road
- Zwift offers other ways to ride on the days you just need to spin or want some fun light competition

Zwift is a training tool that is hopefully more entertaining than what else is out there - you make it what you want. Some will watch a video, others will only be training in workout mode, many do group rides/races, and some just get on there for social recovery rides. It's a piece of virtual road with workout tools built in. We aren't trying to compete with outdoor riding, we're trying to make indoor riding more of a realistic option for the bulk of cyclists.

I can totally appreciate it isn't for everybody, but I do want to make sure you guys know what it can do. Structured Training on Zwift is a real thing and it is heavily used (literally tens of thousands of FTP tests have happened since we launched workout mode just a few months back).

I have been on Zwift for about a month now, and on TR for about a week. In the end, they both have their strengths and weaknesses and, depending on what someone is looking for w/ their indoor training, I can see both being useful (albeit in different ways).

60-90 mins on the trainer seems to go by faster for me on Zwift. I find all the chat bubbles annoying. While they have a workout mode, structured training does not seem to be Zwift's priority. Their priority is the social aspect of indoor training (they openly state that the reason for limited course selection is to have more riders around the course so as to enhance the social aspect of the platform). The workout mode that they do have on the site is ok, but it's not nearly as extensive as TR and it's a little weird to be in workout mode on a rest interval while climbing a Zwift hill that others are pushing for segment PR's on. If you had the structure of TR's workout programs on Zwift, and a dedicated course(s) only for those in workout mode, I think it would be hard to compete with Zwift.

On TR, you have all the workouts and programs you could ask for...and then some. The options are so numerous they end up creating more questions than providing answers about where to begin and how to structure things for yourself. I hate the constant text that pops up during the workouts b/c during the tough intervals I sometimes look down and miss the writing. These are coach designed training programs for all riders of all abilities. Would have been cooler if, instead of the text, they had the actual coach appear in a pop-up window to actually talk you through whatever the essence of the text statements say.

Bottom line as I see it -- if you're the type of person who responds better to "just give me the workout and numbers I need to hit and I'll do it", then I think TR is the better option. If you would be better motivated by seeing other rider avatars on a screen and participating in group rides and races rather than structured workouts, then I think Zwift is the better option.

As is often the case with software, combine the best of what both offer and you have a better solution than either offer individually. I am paying for both right now until I figure out which one better suits me long term. Like someone else said, I hope they both continue to evolve and thrive.

I think Zwift will always mean a lot more to riders that can't get outside; either because of injury/disability or climate.

In Australia, I will get on the trainer on bad weather days rather than miss a workout. That happens more frequently in winter, but generally speaking I can ride outside 365 days a year.

On those bad days, I have chosen Zwift on occasion, but up until now it has been free (beta and then the trial). Now that I would have to subscribe, I am not so sure it'll happen. I don't intend to hold two separate subscriptions and my main interest on a trainer are focused sessions, not escapism. Though I know I can do these sessions in Zwift, I much prefer the minimalism of a simpler application. I be much more interested in hearing about advancements in modelling precision, the code governing the system and control of the trainer and power-meter. I currently think that is only "adequate" in TR.

That said, it is very easy to do an open session in Zwift. I don't have a hard time in pushing a little harder either, which honestly isn't necessarily ideal but just a matter of exercising some discipline.

In terms of VR experience, it doesn't satisfy me much. Too many years logged in games to appreciate it. I get a lot more out of VeloReality when it comes to that. It's quite well done, good footage and syncs well with a Kickr. Climbed Alpe d'Huez and had little visual flashbacks going to sleep that night. I give that a thumbs up.

In terms of the various technologies involved, I do not think Zwift will be able to solve the issues with validating any in-game physical achievement, but no one should take this too seriously. It would be a mistake on their part to market the game/software in that way.

Another thing that bothers me is latency. This is correlated strongly with the geographical location but can have other reasons. I am just assuming (never had a look) that the servers are hosted in North America and is the largest contributor for myself in Australia. It doesn't really matter unless the little in-game nuances (like drafting) become important.

I've not tried the group rides, but nor does this appeal to me. Again, this seems much more geared to those who cannot get out on the actual road.

any news about new courses????

I love Zwift but it gets boring with only two courses.

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Choosing the figure 8 option on the island course makes time go by a lot faster. The Virginia course was cool for a short while, but yeah, can get boring.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

I have been on zwift since November... I have done ALL OF THEM lol

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

I think Zwift is about 5% generous the speed it computes, but even so there are some explanations. If I had a windless environment with 20% less hills than my routine outdoor rides and a stream of others to draft on I bet I would post real world speeds faster. What I've experienced is that I do some group rides averaging ~42khm that are every bit as hard as my local tuesday worlds that averages right around 40kmh over more hilly terrain. My solo rides tend to be about 2kmh faster than I expect on Zwift, but it might all go back to that flatter and windless condition.

Hah, I've made the same comment to a friend who was complaining about my zwift average speeds. A few weeks I've done 3 or 4 zwift races/group rides that were on the flatest zwift options and ended up with weekly average speeds that seem outlandishly high. But maybe they wouldn't be so outlandish if in the real world I lived in windless flatland and had groups of 50 to draft. Maybe there is somewhere in FL (or some other warm flatland state) that has big group rides that I could go test that out (would be better than being stuck in the cold in the winter).

I've seen Trevor and Heather Wurtele on it a bunch of times... without the pro icon next to their name.

Workout mode is only as good as the workouts you put in. Yes, TR has a larger library. However, it's possible to duplicate those and use Zwift. I'm fine with entering in my own workouts. Makes me understand it better.

As for calling it game, I don't use it that way. I push myself and my avatar goes around the map on my workout mode. In TR I push myself and stay between the lines.

I'll make the switch from TR to Zwift when they let you put on headphones/mic and talk trash with the other riders in the group.

Once Zwift added their workout mode, I dropped Trainerroad completely and have not looked back. I built all the workouts I needed in Zwift, and use those for most of the week. I do have 2 to 3 free-style days built into my plan where I ride Zwift in normal mode (whether that be solo or with a group) or I ride outside and do a long ride.

I'm pretty lazy, so until Zwift offers a full set of coordinated training plans that I don't have to build from scratch or cobble together from other users, I'm sticking with TR. IMO that's the biggest value TR provides, not to mention their founders are on ST constantly providing personalized 1-on-1 assistance.

There is a claim on this thread that Zwift is cheaper, which is true for monthly plans. But if you buy the annual subscription TR is actually $1/month cheaper.

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Strava

Just to let others know...if you have a Strava premium membership, then the first 2 months of Zwift are free.

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Straightenin' the curves; Flattenin' the hills
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Coached by Mike Plumb @ TriPower MultiSports
https://www.strava.com/athletes/1149072 - https://www.instagram.com/thoswoods/

They do offer a full set of plans. I'm just finishing the 12 week FTP builder. They also offer a 12 winter plan. Or, load the Sufferfest workouts. Pretty simple.

Awesome, awesome plan drawn up by six-time TT champ and current BMC coach Marco Pinotti. He kind of knows what he's doing.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

So, I'm on both right now. There are things about TR are awesome - the engagement of their coaches here, the podcast (have you subscribed - it's really good), erg control of my trainer (Tacx Vortex Smart). I'm doing the Tour of Sufferlandria on TR right now. Well, not literally this second - I'm actually drinking wine and eating nuts, but you know what I mean. But the workouts (absent Sufferfest or other videos) are efficient, but not engaging. Depends on what you want. Zwift? I actually like the idea of seeing the terrain and feeling the change in resistance. I did my FTP test on Zwift a couple of weeks ago and appreciate their training library. When the weather is bad, it's an interesting substitute for a group ride outside. Yeah, even with the gamification, the courses are becoming boring. I have not done a race yet, but it seems tricky. Drafting on Zwift is, for me, so different than real life that I don't have the knack yet. And that will, without question, spit me off the back of a Zwift race. So, they are *very* different things, fundamentally, with some overlap (Zwift's workout mode) that confuses the comparison. But, I'm rapidly coming to the decision that most have alluded to - I can't afford both. So which gets cancelled?

The old saying goes, people respond to training stimuli differently. Guys like Lionel and Potts can probably crank out 400w for long periods of time in a dark room if they feel like it.

Personally, I enjoy achieving the goals that Zwift gives per segment of a training workout. I can zone out, and focus on banging out the interval and getting the silly gold star from holding the watts. The UX and graphics on Zwift has been completely intuitive to me since day 1 and it works for me. I've never joined a group ride, a race, or sent an in-game text. I'm following a plan and simply grinding out the workouts (with ample recovery).

One of my friends IRL and on slowtwitch has had great success with TR and has no desire to switch. I think that's great! Everyone is different and do whatever keeps you interested. If in six months you feel a need for change-you're not bound by long-term contracts.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

Well, I should have emphasized that TR has a full set of coordinated plans, which to me means something that I can build an annual training plan around and provides me options based on the amount of training time I have available. I'm sure the FTP builder plan in Zwift does what it says it will (build FTP), but it doesn't look specific enough to my particular objective, which is both building FTP AND endurance to bike for 5+ hours and then run a marathon after that.

But of course, it looks to be evolving rapidly and I don't want to outright dismiss it, so I'm keeping my eye on it closely.

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Strava

Zwift would be fun if you could throw virtual pumps into people's virtual wheels as you virtually ride by :D

Lot's of my friends are on there, maybe next year. Only a couple more weeks of shitty winter to get through here

Is there a way to review their plans without doing an actual workout? I'm a zwift member and I do a few rides/races, but have not tried the structured training yet. Do I need to be running the actual application to see the plans or can I review them "off the bike" through the Zwift login page for setup, etc.?

This--> http://www.stronglikeox.bike/zwift-beta-workouts/

Been using zwift for about a year now, it has its place but I wouldn't ditch TR for it. My thoughts are TR for training, zwift for a training race once or twice a week, outside as much as possible once summer hits.

Timetek:
I read a lot of these posts, and your post summarized my experience, and the reason I do Zwift, perfectly. I ride it exactly like you do and for the same reasons. Well, there you go.

What was your opinion of the 12 week FTP builder? Care to share your improvement? Curious about using it for myself. Thanks!

I gained 27 watts. The first four weeks will seem easy. Around week three I added a group ride on Saturday or Sunday that I knew would push me, and I think that contributed to the increase.
Now I'm integrating the Sufferfest workouts and when needing a Z2 active recovery ride, I still go back to the 12 week FTP plan and find an easy day for an hour ride to force myself to back off.

Thanks for the info. I think I will give it a try.

I'm with you.

In my opinion Zwift is missing the ability to race against previous performances in a meaningful way. That is a key feature to Computrainer.

Now, in fairness, Zwift is right out of beta testing- what? Five months ago? So it is likely that if enough people mention it, they may engineer in the capability.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Difference in riding it with just an ant+ device on a fluid trainer versus riding it on a smart trainer like a Kickr or Computrainer.................