It has been used at WTS races by Vincent Luis at the very least. Not sure why road racers would pass on it, though. Given Sagan's bike handling skills I have a hard time believing he couldn't ride it.

Didn't Cavendish say that he hated the brakes on the Vias?

Cavendish didn't like it. Especially braking in the wet.

What's wrong with the bikes on both the Venge and Vias?

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Sagan wasn't even on a Venge period at Worlds.. He rode his tarmac. I'm betting he will be on his Tarmac at Abu Dhabi as well which is very telling as it's pancake flat minus one stage finish.

Contrast this with the new Madone which appeared to be everywhere to me.

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Developing aero, fit and other fun stuff at Red is Faster

I am picking mine up today, so can give feedback over next few days. I do know that the LBS replaced the front brake caliper as it was grippy. The bike does look awesome

Specialized just introduced the bike and as is typical today, they don't wait until they have a big inventory sitting on the dock waiting to ship in order to launch a new bike. In addition, it would seem to make sense to put a few out there and get some feedback in case there are some glitches/bugs/incosistencies that need attention. In the meantime, I believe the contract Specialized has with the teams is to supply the Venge as it existed when the contract was written. It would cost a lot of money to immediately outfit these Spec sponsored riders with a new model. Why should Specialized spend much time arming Cavendish with a new bike when he is leaving the team. The Tarmac has always been a little better handling than the Venge so people like Sagan and Contadore will stay on the Tarmac. They are not typically on the front of the pack through most of the road type races. And of course seat time could play a role. I rode my friends Colnago C59 a couple times yet still prefer my Tarmac. I am sure this would change if I put more time on the Colnago but I am not in a buying mood right now and besides, I am perfectly happy with the Tarmac.

Lets wait and see what the field looks like next year and who all is still riding the old Venge. Specialized already rules the podium right now.

I'm always surprised at how little attention many cyclists put towards aerodynamics, forgoing simple gains. Specialized appears to have tried to change this, but hasn't had much response.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

That's because most of their 'gains' are in marketing. In the grand scheme of things the difference in frame is negligible when compared to position and clothing on a road bike. Had they made one which could be easily tooled and the pros actually wanted to ride (like the original Venge) then this thread wouldn't exist.

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but I don't think you understand bikes, bike racing, marketing or sponsorship.


There is just a whole lotta stuff in that post that is simply wrong.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Cyclingnews/bikeradar already previewed his World Champs painted Tarmac that he'll use at Abu Dhabi. Zero mention of the Venge or VIAS.

They're typically on the front when it matters, at the finish.

You want your most prolific riders riding your most prolific bike. Because, advertising...

That's what I thought. Clearly he seems to prefer the Tarmac. I'll be curious to see what happens come 2016 with his bike choice. You don't launch a new bike and not have your most high-profile rider/sprinter on it. No doubt, Spec higher-ups are not happy, regardless of his success on their bikes.

I think also relatively few Spesh riders rode the old Venge. Really only the sprinters and even then not always. I always found it quite ironic for a company that is so gung ho about aerodynamics. Compare that to how many Canyon riders ride the Aeroad and there's a huge difference. Valverde is always on the Aeroad, same as Rodriguez. I think only Quintana is on the Ultimate and that may be a fit thing because he's so tiny.

Agree they want advertising, but the reality is the risk often isn't worth it. When you're making a 7 figure salary and competing for 7 figures in prize money not to mention the recognition and sponsorship money, its not wise to take unnecessary risks. Contadore won the 2011 Giro on his SL3 Tarmac, months after Specialized introduced the SL4 model. Yes, they wanted him to ride the new model but he chose not to take the risk. Lance was slow in changing over the new Madone also.

By all accounts the SL4 Tarmac has been very successful for Specialized, as has the existing Venge. I doubt the new Venge Vias will repeat that success, but expect it will be a success nevertheless. Lets wait a year and reassess the status. My bet is that Specialized will be bigger than they currently are.

Who is competing for 7-figure prize money?

And the prize money gets contributed to the team...the winner does not keep it.

As for the claims that not many riders rode the Venge, I would suggest some of you go back and watch some of the races this year. Members of QS was on the (old) Venge for much of the TdF, as was Sagan.

I can't say why there aren't more pros riding the Venge Vias....could be a multitude of reasons (including the possibility that they just don't like it).

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Or they simply don't like the bike because it sucks. That's the message it sends.

As already mentioned, look at the new Madone and all the riders on that.

I've been racing mine for two weeks, in really technical crits and strong, blustery winds. Love it. Had no problem with the brakes, either.

Pros are a superstitious bunch, it took years to convince them that deep wheels were faster, and that carbon wheels wouldn't explode udring a cobbled classic.

If Sky was sponsored by Specialized we'd have a definitive answer.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

Time will tell I guess. Worth noting that Cav has previous as he dropped the Scott Foil when it 1st came out (or F0I as it was called then) at the Tour when HTC were riding Scott.

I think in his mind it's illogical if he is not winning so there must be a reason - whats changed ? - oh my bike - we that must be the reason then! I am guessing he is very particularly about he bike and position as well.

Agreed, for instance 85% of Katusha rides the Aeroad CF SLX. Even Canyon was suprised by the demand from the pros for this bike when they launched it, and struggled to supply them all. (I have one myself, and it's an impressively capable bike.)

I would guess it has more to do with ride quality than anything else. The ProTour guys spend 5 hours a day racing, so many of them are interested in a bike that is both stiff, yet "relatively" comfortable. Giant and Cervelo have the same issues with their teams riding the TCR and R5 over their aero offerings. Let's face it, almost nobody rode the original S5.

If you think about Trek, the decoupler on the new Madone makes for a pretty comfortable ride and Cancellara rode the Domane gravel bike over an old Madone. Canyon may have figured out how to make the new Areohead ride as well as the Ultimate, or maybe the Ultimate is kind of a turd. Part of Specialized's problem could be the the Tarmac is so good not many people want to ride anything else.

This is just incorrect.

Both Sagan and Cavendish have Venge VIAS bikes built up for them. It's not a matter of equipping them, they just refuse to use them. Likewise, both of these guys are on the front when it matters and if the bike were as good as the hype, it would give them an advantage over the old Venge as well as Tarmac.

So it comes down to either handling, brakes, comfort or something big enough to offset any aero advantage it has. So if you had a Venge VIAS and Tarmac and ended up riding the Tarmac 98% of the time, would you consider the $6,000 - $12,000 money well spent on the VIAS?

after u ride a bike with the decoupler u just don't want to ride anything else; SOOOOOOO comfortable!

I have a domane and I would to try the new madone with the decoupler :)

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

If my memory serves me correctly, in The Tour, both (maybe just Sagan) at one point rode the old venge for a stage. I bet Specialized told them New Venge Vias or Tarmac only cause "technically" you could make a case for riding the Tarmac over the Venge but riding the old venge over the new is a downright marketing killer.

Even then, for the 1 or 2 stages they did bike switches toward the end of the race onto the ViAS. Eventually they stopped even doing that.

I had a "pleasure" to ride Vias... Lets put it this way, I'm 180lb and I felt it was a bloody boat anchor. This things is as heavy as my CX bike, not even close to my Madone 7 or even quite heavy Dogma F8. I can't imagine how 150-160lb rider would even pick this bike instead of SL4 or lighter selection.

Few other issues:

1. You can't turn handlebars all the way when placing this car at the back of your car on the back seat with front wheel out, I do not even want to think what will brake during first crash due to that fact.
2. New impressively looking headset rubs gains frame. Check every Vias; it will have small marks on the frame from rubbing as headset sticks to the back and vibrations/flex causes it to rub.
3. Switching wheels with different size rims will be a pain.

It is very sexy looking bike, to many proprietary parts, to many custom crap making this bike more of a showoff bike than fast racer. Specialized doesn't want to share profit with group set manufactures and trying to Frankenstein their own "inventions" stupid customers will pay for it.

Guys are not racing this bike not because they do not like it, if the contract says you race that bike, you do it, no matter what, then you throw it same as Wiggins did with his new Dogma with suspension that caused him to crash two times, then he switched to F8.

This bike is not ideal for racing, where people crash, and quick fix and go is crucial. Vias is fast, it will save you 50 seconds or what ever marketing guys say, but lets say you crash and it cuts the cables and you need to wait for new bike, and wait cost you 5 minutes, who cares about aero in that situation?

Good bike has to have it all: light, aero, easily serviceable, comfortable, stable, crash proof.

lol wut?

Don't even know where to start. Well, maybe I'll start with the crash-proof bike idea. LOL, keep looking for that bike and let me know when you find it.

As one the "stupid" customers who bought this bike, I have been riding and racing the shit out of it and loving it.

A bit of extra weight. Yeah, whatever. Less than 1kg over my Tarmac.

Chris Farley Voice on.... Did you remember that one time at the 2008 edition of Paris Roubaix when Magnus Bagsted's zipps exploded during Paris-Roubiax? That was AWESOME!!!! \ Chris Farley Voice

I wouldn't ride the Tarmac 98% of the time because nobody in the US races long enough to worry about minor differences in ride quality and outside of a handful of climbing races there is no reason to worry about weight over aero. Saving 3-10% in drag riding a Venge is too great an advantage.

ProTour guys live in a different world and what they ride shouldn't have any bearing on a mere mortal's bike choice. Unless you have to put your foot on the ground for braking, the Vias Venge should be what anyone on this forum should be road racing.

Not sure what you're talking about there. Plenty of classics-length races in the U.S.

Quote:

of a handful of climbing races

Not sure what you're talking about there either. At least here in California almost every significant road race is a "climbing race."




Ha! [almost] Anyone on this forum who races a Vias Venge does so for the same reason they commute in a Porsche Cayenne. Because they can, and it's cool.

When the Vias first came out I thought it was fug. Then I saw one in person at a local shop and was really impressed. It's a slick looking machine. Still haven't test ridden one yet because I know I wouldn't buy one because for that kind of coin I'd be more inclined to buy something different. But this post isn't about me. It's about the backlash. So here are my thoughts on that.

As cool as the bike is, it's complicated. It's aero beyond belief, so that's to be expected. This isn't based on opinion or conjecture, but by what Spec themselves have said i.e. needing someone well-trained to build it. Spec are reacting to this info in social media. Just take a look at the Vias posts on Instagram and you'll see the subtle hints of marketing at work. Along with the picture of a bike is the caption explaining that they built three of them in one day. And it was built up in no time. Those were written that way for a reason and the reason is to make it not sound like a PITA.

The pros don't seem to like it. Cav for the brakes and Segan for who knows what. The Vias is an aero machine with no compromise. And that's probably where the problem lies. It is a set system. If you don't it the way it is, you're screwed. Almost every other aero bike lets you have some kind of option. I wonder if part of this is in the handlebars alone. The S3/S5, the Aeroad, even the new Foil let the rider choose what kind of handlebar they want. And when you see the pros riding these bikes you're not going to see many riding with the aero bar options. I don't spend a lot of time on the tops of the bars, but I don't regularly go out on daily 5 hour rides. The pros do. Aero matters, but comfort does too.

Crits and tris are one thing, but grand tours and whathaveyou are a different animal. What's good for us might not be good for the pros. Sadly, what's good for the pros sells a lot of bikes.

But I'm going to go out an a limb and suggest that the superstitious Sagan takes a bike much closer to its performance limits than you ever have. Despite your "technical" crit experience. :)

So I picked up my Venge Vias yesterday and rode it this morning. By way of background I am in the 55-59 age group, i do participate in Sportif events but do not race bikes competitively. I do enter Tri's up to 70.3 distance. In addition to my new Venge i have a Cannondale Evo Blank Inc and a Shiv.

So the ride today was 41klm, undulating on a smooth surface, averaged 21.5 mph (so i am not quick). In comparison to my Evo (5.3kg) the Venge is heavier (7.7kg). Having said that it the Venge was faster today than my EVO is on that trip, i have ridden this road maybe 100 times.

I found the Venge to be very smooth and compliant. The Roval wheels roll really fast. The power saddle i hardly noticed which is a good sign. I had a Retul fit beforehand and changed the stem and seat post (zero offset). Black saddle and bar tape.

I am extremely happy with the performance of the bike, it is really fast, especially when riding above 25 mph. Braking felt good, similar to the Durace 9000 on my Evo. Not as good at the Magura RT8 brakes on my Shiv.

Its not the bike for climbing steep mountains, my Evo will do that for me. It performs similar to the Shiv, however without the bars, so i can ride with the bike pack and take my turn on the front more easily. It is a bike for certain roads and conditions and in those instances it does its job brilliantly.

Hope this helps clarify a few things

Bikes aren't just ridden in races. Lots of training hours that need to be taken into account as well.

To start off, I'm not sure if "backlash" means what the OP thinks it does.

What race in US is 6.5-7 hours? I've long disagreed with ST's *experts* about ride quality but I concur with Mike that it's a big factor for WorldTour guys. They're riding more in some weeks than most of the ST audience does in a month, so different perspective.

I saw the Domane a few weeks ago and have to say was intrigued. We're I to be looking at any bike, that would at top of list.

Also agree with you 100% about buyer. That's who Specialized is making it for. I first saw it at elite nats in June. Way too much bike for me but certainly tips the "looks badass" meter.

Dude I'm badass too!

Honestly it rides like a normal bike, not dissimilar to the Tarmac. It's not like riding a TT bike.

"What race in US is 6.5-7 hours?"
The only one I can think of is LOTOJA
;)

But the treks suck worse... Those teams were forced to ride the new aero Trek bike. The reason why the Venge vias disappeared at the tour for a couple days was due to the UCI complaining the bike was not within spec just like what happened in 2011(or 2012) when specialized rolled out their new shiv at the tour and were told they cant use it

So with Garmin mount, Garmin 520, water bottle and pedals ie ready to ride it comes in at 7.79 kg or 17.174 lbs. so not too bad really.

It's cause everyone is waiting for the faster "Turbo" version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gmZ_wdI_k4

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

That's frame drag, not overall drag. You'd save more with a decent shrug.

And I suppose you have a source to confirm this? They were too scared to use it in the mountains or the rain.

LOL....the Shiv that was introduced in 2011 was a tri-specific bike. It was designed w/o any consideration to UCI rules. Further, it was introduced at Kona, which is October. The Tour is in July. So in 2011, the bike had not been introduced. By the '12 Tour, everyone knew it was UCI illegal. The idea that any team tried to use the Shiv in the Tour is laughable.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I wish I hadn't watched that. One of the worst things i've ever laid eyes on as a marketer!

I think that you are talking about different Shiv models

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http://cds-0.blogspot.com

Here is what motochris wrote....


So no, I am talking about the right model. The tri version of the Shic was introduced at Kona 2011.

Now, if motochris was talking about the original Shiv (now Shiv TT) w/ a nosecone, again he is wrong. Not only was it not introduced in 2011/12 (I believe it was late 2008), but the nosecone version was raced at the UCI level (including the TdF) for at least a year. Here is Cancellara racing his Shiv nosecone in the 2009 TdF.



So yeah, motochris' post smells like bullschitt......

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The nosecone Shiv got banned in early 2010 during a stage race. Chris D, who was a teammate at the time, scrambled to get an alternative to Contador.

Yup....don't remember which race, but that is exactly right. IIRC, there had been rumors swirling that it would get banned, but the actual ruling and timing came as a bit of a surprise.

So that again reiterates that the scenario laid out by motochris is not even close to being factually correct....especially as he then tried to connect that incorrect scenario to why Specialized riders were not riding the Venge Vias at this year's TdF.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

And just to put that scenario to rest.....I'm 99.9% certain that sticker on the seatube in this pic is the UCI frame approved sticker.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The nose cone Shiv was banned in Feb of 2010 (also affected the Trinity as it fell foul of the interpreted 8cm rule). Spec knew about it almost a month prior but did nothing. Still Cancellara won Worlds on it a few months before so you can't say that the UCI have it out for Spec.

Correct, that sticker is definitely on the frame.

When I said backlash, I am referring to the fact the Cav and Sagan weren't riding them as much as they could be. Obviously choosing the old venge instead of this one at times. Most the feedback from people who have actually ridden them on the forums and at the amateur level seems to be pretty positive for the most parts. Most people say it goes like hell, brakes are decent (maybe not the best they have ever ridden, although some people have said adjusting the toe in helps dramatically). So just curious to hear people's thoughts and opinions. The true test at the pro level will be next year when the new season starts, more bikes are available, and whether riders choose to ride them or not.

Still wondering how the front brake fits within the 8cm box rule...

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http://cds-0.blogspot.com

You can always check the UCI approved list: http://www.uci.ch/...andForks_English.pdf

IIRC brakes are considered separate so you have an extra 8cm to play with.

Are we talking about the nosecone shiv? Because i think there was some significant UCI discussion on that bike. The VIAS would have clearly been given the go ahead if it was used multiple times. If there was an issue it would have been pulled right away.

this was the prompt i needed to get me to finally write up some impressions of the ViAS. as it happens, i've raced LOTOJA 6x (~9h continuous saddle time) on 5 different S-Works bikes, including, most recently, the ViAS.

in fact, i literally JUST got off the ViAS before writing that post.

No, it should be contained within the box. Page 34-35 http://www.uci.ch/...2012-ENG_English.PDF

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http://cds-0.blogspot.com

Just to be clear, I was never posting this message saying the bike is a failure. I think most of the naysayers haven't ridden one first hand, or are just passing along the rumors they here such as Cav not liking the brakes, and Sagan not riding for every race, etc. I was just wondering when we will see the pro's adapt and use the bike more regularly, and it seems like this is only a matter of more seat time and more availability to supply the rest of the riders from the pro teams. Nice to see Sagan use it in Stage 4 of AD.