As a slow swimmer, I would not complain if the swim was cancelled. I'd rather not ingest any of the blue green algae.

And you predict it will impact the swim in 3.5 weeks?

Will not be a problem. Bloom tends to disappear once it gets a bit colder.

Maybe they will bring some Wisconsin snakes to take care of it

or Julie Miller the swim :)

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

You know the pre-race jitters have started when the water condition posts start coming out nearly a month before the actual race. I am not sweating it and will continue to train for the swim.

If it's not gone by then it can. The algae is really cyanobacteria and some species can produce a toxin called beta-methlyamino-l-alanine and can cause ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease). The cyanobacteria that was tested in Lake Erie does produce BMAA and from what I'm hearing from family members in southern Ohio, tests down there are finding the same.

I have to credit my biologist wife for the facts stated above.

I did Lake Stevens 70.3 last August. There was a sign in the water prohibiting swimming due to toxic algae. And off we swam.

There is a variety of toxic algae, some is okay to swim through and some is just down right stupid. In 20 some odd days, the current may push it all away (or most of it) and I'm sure we'll be swimming. At least thats what I'm planning on.

I saw a ton of snakes in Lake Monona.....especially out in the weeds.

This. The colder temps (and rain) should clear it up in the next 3+ weeks. That being said, having done IMFL last year (cancelled swim), I signed up for IMLou b/c there was absolutely no way the swim could be cancelled there. So maybe I jinxed it.

I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about things you can't control.

The general consensus from people I know from Louisville is that it won't be an issue once it cools down.

I'm curious; what is the expected water temperature of the Ohio in Louisville around 10/11?

Someone posted on the FB Louisville group a history of water temps for 10/11 and it looks historically like it is going to be in the 60's.

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Nothing like some blue green algae and the smell to waken your day. Don't drink the water, toxins can be in clear water as the algae dies off and releases it.

I did the same thing after volunteering at IMFL haha. This will be my first, so a canceled swim would be terrible! $700+ and working my training around a wife and 3 kids isn't something I can swing regularly.

http://www.courier-journal.com/...ct-ironman/72519422/

Another article...http://www.wdrb.com/...with-no-end-in-sight
I agree it's still too early to worry about, but after doing the swimless IM Florida last year I will be watching progress..just out of curiosity I wonder what the "contingency plans" are, other than just canceling swim.

Unfortunately, it's not getting cool enough here (still low 80s high and low 60s lows projected for next few weeks) and we aren't getting any rain anytime soon. They keep saying this is an "unprecedented" situation, etc. I'm getting nervous.

Still have over 2 weeks to go.

My long range forecast has several evening in the 50's and 3 chances for rain. You also need to look at the weather upstream across the region.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. My athlete is a stronger swim/bike than runner. The strong runners that are poor swimmers will gain 4-7 minutes on him if the swim is cancelled. If the swim had been cancelled at my IM last year, I would have lost 2-3 places I think.

Everyone says how unimportant the swim is, but that's not true, when some very fast runners are poor swimmers. It equalizes the run for "all-arounders". It's hard to go sub 9 or sub 4 hours in 70.3 is you swim a 1:10 or 38:00 respectively. That's a lot of time to make up on the bike/run. I predict Sanders will miss wining Kona almost exactly by the margin of his swim time to the lead pack.... or he'll blow up trying to close the gap.

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If this resolves, it won't be until the week before. We will all get more nervous between now and next Saturday, but I have my fingers crossed. I did IMFL last year and the swim canx really sucked although I understood the rationale. I'll still come to Louisville for my LQ count but if the swim is canx I am probably going to call it a training day and think hard about a double.

I don't know how I feel about this. I am a decent swimmer, above average cyclist, and good runner. It would definitely be to my advantage to cancel the swim. That being said, and I know a lot of ppl that did the shortened IMFL that feel the same way, I'd never feel like it was an IM.

The swim isn't my forte, but I'll cross my fingers that we do get to race all 3 events.

I'm the same way, decent swim, weak bike, good run. I'll just show up and do what I'm told.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

Swim is the weakest of the three disciplines, but if the swim gets cancelled I'm going to be very conflicted. I've been wanting to do an ironman for 10 years and never got serious about it until 20 months ago. Next year I'm already committing to switch from tri to time trials. I enjoy triathlons, but 11ish years of running my knees are wanting a break. All of that is to say, it is in my best interest for the swim to get cancelled from a finishing standpoint but I don't want it to. I want to accomplish the goal I set out for 10 years ago and I'd hate to be given a free pass on my weakest leg. If it was cancelled I'd seriously consider taking it very easy on race day and then in a ~2 weeks do one on my own in practice.

Beach 2 battleship is still open on oct 17...great race

Do a full Ironman on your own???

That first article is fishing for news..... The second is a little more of a problem but they say that canoe race is still going to happen on 10/3/15 I bet a bunch of ironman triathletes will be watching that race to see if it happens. It is the article. I just wish ironman would set up secondary swim sites at all ironman races I mean look at florida they could have done it across the area. It can't be that hard to have these for each race. Hopefully if it is cancelled it will be run bike run so we don't have a wonderful tour de france style bike ride for the first 10 miles or so.

Any locals on here got any insight?

It's a personal goal, so why not? I have an abundance of mental toughness and physically I'm ready for it. Only thing is it wouldn't be "official" but again, it goes back to being a personal goal. Regardless, I'm still not going to worry about this too much right now. Definitely not paying another registration fee to make it "official" if the swim gets cancelled.

I would doubt there are any alternatives, but they did that for Clearwater the year I did it, moved from ocean to intercoastal

yea not sure if there are any other places in louisville but in a florida or other places there are other places. I would bet money we swim that being said who knows what will happen.

I'm covering my bases and adding a second IM. The folks at Endurance Sports Travel can still get you in IMFL on November 7th.

Endurance Sports Travel
725 Westbourne Road
West Chester, PA 19382
(o) 610-399-4662
(c) 215-370-1474
www.endurancesportstravel.com

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Hey, I hear you, go for it. I think we'd all be disappointed with a swim cancel, especially first timers like myself. All the time put in to train and don't get to do the whole thing. It's a personal goal for me as well and everyone else I'm sure. It would be horrible to have it shortened, but it's out of our hands. That's awesome if you end up doing one on your own. I think that may not be possible for most of us and the thought of finding another next year is hard to deal with.

I'm in Louisville and to answer others questions about swim alternatives...there really aren't any I can think of. They'd have to move the entire swim bike run somewhere else and that just isn't realistic at all. There's nothing nearby I can think of unless they went to a lake somewhere in Southern Indiana or something. Pretty safe to say we're either swimming in the Ohio or we aren't and if we aren't, we're just gonna bike and run at the locations planned.

thanks of rate heads up..... What is the word on the street? Funny enough they moved the great ohio swim form 9/27 to 10/10 and if you read on their website it says that technically the levels tested are not bad enough to cause problems but the state agencies have issued the warnings not to swim. Only bad news I see is no rain in forecast but that could change and seems like the air temp is not going down in the forecast.... Only well really it is too far out to really know for sure what will happen.

Looking bad for the swim. Forecast is 80, sunny no rain through next Friday. I think WTC has one more year on the contract, do they more date back to august for next year? does this kill IM LOU after the contract? I wish they had just left it in August, may consider late may?

This would be awesome.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

There is a lot of misinformation here. 50-60% chance of rain for friday and saturday of this week. (two days from now) and IM and Louisville extended their contract. IM Louisville is going nowhere and it is staying in October. Where did you get your info?

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???? Not sure what you're talking about as far as moving it back or choosing another month. This algae situation has nothing to do with it being in October. It's a freak occurrence.

I did IMFL last year when the swim was canx. They did a controlled start by race numbers that separated the field far more than the swim ever could have. Florida has a reputation for being a draft fest but it certainly was not last year. In fact, if there were any complaints it was from those folks that waited more than 90 mins before they were able to start. I certainly hope the swim is not cancelled (again for me), but I would bet they do exactly what they did at Florida.

I bet we swim. There are 6 days of possible rain as of right now and multiple days with lows in the 50's. The two things needed is rain and lower temps. I am going to ignore everything else till week of the race. Ironman would not be making any decisions till day before anyway so why should I. Either swim bike run or bike run. I am betting we swim!

I like your attitude! This whole thing reminds me of when I did IM Arizona in 2010. For those that don't remember, on 10 July, 2010, a portion of the dam collapsed thus draining the entire Tempe Town Lake. The swim hinged on whether the dam could be repaired and the lake filled in time for the race in November. Repairs were completed on 8 Oct, 2010 and it took 2 1/2 weeks to fill the lake. The lake was opened for normal water activities on 26 Oct, 2010. You can imagine the discussions, handwringing and gnashing of teeth that ensued between 10 Jul and 26 Oct 2010. We triathletes tend to worry a lot.

Similarly, the Deepwater Horizon Oil spill started on 20 April 2010 and wasn't capped until 15 July 2010. It took months more before it became clear that the oil would not impact the IMFL swim. Again, the boards lit up with grief over the potential for a change in venue.

Contrast these incidents to Ironman Florida last year where there were no concerns about the swim until the last few days. So I am hoping the axiom of Ironman swims is that the earlier and louder the wailing, the less likely there will actually be a cancellation.

I agree. I think every night in the 7+ days prior to the race will have a low temp in the 50s, if not the 40s.

Pass this attitude along!

Need rain up river to get the current moving. Right now the rain forecasted is coming up from the southeast, and won't affect up river. Cooler temps will help though. Last i heard many places in the river were only moving at 1/2 mile per hour, and when you have 500 miles of that stuff, it will take a while to move out.

Maysville, KY is projected to get rain this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Maybe that will help.

I am a strong swimmer and cyclist. My run is average but if the swim is cancelled the runners now take a huge advantage. My easy swim with HR in the 120-130 will be low to sub 50. For others to do that they would destroy the rest of their day. IMO Kona spots will be going to those that really don't deserve it. They should drop those slots in these cases. The swim is an important part of the race... It drives me insane seeing people getting excited for a potential cancellation because they aren't strong swimmers.

There is no doubt that cancellation of any leg of a triathlon alters the performance distribution that would otherwise have occurred. That said, you race what the day brings you, and anyone who gets a KQ under the conditions of the day absolutely deserves it. Under no circumstances should WTC drop the slots from a race to which they were already designated. Even last year when Tahoe was canx outright they awarded the slots in a lottery to those who were registered (or something like that). What kind of event would it be if WTC said "hey, the swim is canx, and we aren't giving out awards or Kona slots...go ahead and have a good time." Get real.

And I say that as someone who 1) really hopes the swim occurs, and 2) has never KQ'd.

That's a terrible opinion and you should keep it to yourself. :)

I'm one of those average swimmers/decent runners...Prefer to keep the swim in, but even if it did get cancelled, slots should not/will not get dropped. It's still a long ass race.

It's not opinion I'd keep to myself. It's a fact that a non-swimmer/good runner gains a significant and unfair advantage in a race that has 3 disciplines. It's not unfair based on superficial issues either. The race would be modified to not include something that will change the performance of the other 2. I know they wouldn't drop the spots but, those that take them knowing the swim was the deciding factor would always know it wasn't truly earned.

Think you're reaching a bit. The truth is good runners have a significant advantage in IMs whether the swim is there or not. Eliminating the swim may increase that advantage a little bit...but not materially, in my opinion. They'd more than likely run you down anyway. Rinny being quite a good example of this.

Life ain't fair. Learn to run faster.

I am a blah swimmer, strong cyclist, decent runner. No swim would definitely improve my chances at a KQ, and if that's the case come race day I wouldn't complain. Saying they should drop those slots is pretty extreme. Unless they gave me a free transfer to another IM, I'd be pissed if they took the slots away. What do you propose they do with the slots?? You've got to adapt to the conditions given on the day. That said, I still hope we swim. I've mentally and physically prepared for swim, bike and run, and if we don't swim, I sure wasted a lot of time flopping around in the pool this year when I could have been on my bike!

Not much they can to change it. The outcry would be far greater if they drop the spots. I run just fine in the mid 3 hr range off a 5 hr or less bike. Now without a swim I'll get a few bike minutes but, that's it but, the advantage of 50 or high 40's swim is out the window. There's plenty of athletes in that run/bike range but, only a few in that swim range. Now there are people in Kona who have to swim. Waters it down a bit...no pun intended.

Rod or Christian or whatever, if you KQ you'll take the slot and you'll have earned it. If you miss out and feel that you're slighted because the swim is your strong point, well then that's the hand you're given that day. There could be a lightening storm that morning that cancels the swim just as easily. One year in racine they delayed the start due to fog and I'm about 110% sure the swim got cut very short (we didn't go very far out). Things happen.

So if the swim is cancelled and you KQ in Lou will you decline the spot because you didn't earn it?

I can't believe this is even a discussion about KQ spots if they cancel any part Sbr that sucks but to totally ruin the point of the race for some is crazy. it is hard enough for anyone and everyone to get kona spot that each race should have them Regardless of what is done that day. Unless like the other post said they allow us to transfer out to one with slots in and better yet put all 100 in a race 😀

At least one race organizer is confident that the algae will be gone by mid-Oct.


Due to the health threat currently posed by algae blooms on the Ohio River, organizers have rescheduled the eighth annual Great Ohio River Swim from Sept. 27 to Saturday, Oct. 10....


From the race website:
"Swimmer safety is our top priority. We have been in close contact with ORSANCO and the Cincinnati Health Department, monitoring the algae on the river. Ironically, the current algae bloom test results, while fluctuating, have remained below the established threshold for "recreational contact". Even so, the Cincinnati Health Department has issued a health alert warning adults and children not to swim in the Ohio River until cooler temperatures and increased river flow eliminate the threat. Again, we cannot predict if that health alert will continue to September 27. Our primary interest is making sure the swim is safe, fun and a memorable experience and we are absolutely sure that it will be on October 10, 2015!"

That's good to hear. I've been trying to monitor for updates on this ever since I saw the news a week ago. Hoping for some cool down and possible rain to help matters along.

Getting some decent rain right now in Louisville (and areas upriver as well), through the night and more coming this weekend. Feels a little cooler but air temps won't get into the 50s until mid next week I'd say. Hopefully this rain helps.

100% chance the swim will not be cancelled

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Fruit snacks are for winners

Yogi couldn't have said it any better.
What time will you try to que up for swim ?

I believe some have already started.


All joking aside, I want to be towards the frontish, for no other reason other than I want to start my race close to when the gun goes off.

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Come on!!!!!

Is that a "Come on", that you are excited for the race?, or was it something I said?

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Excited sorry!!! Come on swim let's roll it

This year may be more important than ever to be frontish (It's a new word!). Until now, age groupers started at 7:05 or 7:10 (I can't remember which). In the athlete guide, it says that this year age-groupers will start at 7:30. But we still only have until midnight to finish.

Any idea about the water temp?

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Chris Harris

There aren't any local alternatives that they could use without the mother of all logistical messes.

In southern Indiana, there's Deam Lake. The problem is, if they switched the swim to there, how would you modify the bike route? And you'd have legal issues of getting permits in the respective areas.

Yesterday, I was at an open-water swim event, previously scheduled for the Ohio River, that was moved to the Falling Rock Park in LaGrange. That was a fun swim and I enjoyed getting 2.4 miles in. But they CAN'T move the IM swim there: that place is too small to handle the high volume of athletes; there is not enough room for a transition area; and the road in the parking area is absolutely horrible and would tear up bikes.

Not terribly far away is Taylorsville Lake. That might be big enough, but--even then--that would require HUGE changes to the bike route in a very short time window.

Hopefully, the algae clears out in 2 weeks.

As of right now, water temp is just south of 76F. We're now in wetsuit-legal territory.

http://www.theintelligencer.net/...etail/id/643255.html

wheeling is a fair ways upriver, but it's a start. with cooler weather in the forecast too, I'm moving into the "not worrying about it" camp

Again I bet we are swimming it is raining all the time there now and all along the river. Unless rain is bad for it. :) Also temps are looking to drop some more that should help some as well.

Any updates on wetsuit numbers?

I bet for the bike we will need arm warmers maybe gloves at this rate.

Here is the latest. Local news report from yesterday...

http://www.wdrb.com/...-algae-in-ohio-river

By "wetsuit numbers", did you mean current water temps and the likelihood of a wetsuit swim? Last I heard, the water was already wetsuit legal. Historically, the water temps drop nearly a degree a day. I expect it'll be 65-68 on race day.

Thanks for the update and video. We need to get some local triathletes down there to clear up that stagnant water that they are using to milk this story. I mean really the water right next to it is totally fine but the water stuck in the dock area is not moving.

Do we think they will delay it and move it like maryland?

They will not delay or move this race. If anything they will just cancel the swim. IMO that won't happen either. We will be fine, and be racing the full 140.6 in 11 days.

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Yea I think so as well but if WTC moves maryland they are going to be setting a precedent that if something is wrong we will move it. Now I know that maryland is different because it is possible they could not do anything.

yes I believe 90 percent chance we do the entire 140.6 with 10 percent chance we do not swim

Even if it clears, I'm passing on the practice swim on Saturday.

Yeah, I'd already planned on doing that. I've been told never do the practice swims at Lou, TX or AZ due to typical water quality issues.

Yeah, if that's all that's left, this is a nonissue. I photo from the docks looking upstream would have been more revealing. I would hope they clean up the floating trash before the start though.

How much of that east coast rain is going to get in the Ohio river valley? If that tropical storm turns inland it could make for a Chattanooga type swim.

I'm not sure why anybody would do the practice swim, EVER.

just what we need, another reason for dev to start a thread and complain

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Fruit snacks are for winners

I'm not sure if it's related to the hurricane, but it appears Louisville is expected to get quite a bit of rain over the next 4 days.

  
Well, the Ohio river basin covers a bigger area than I thought. Looks like it should get a good "flush" with all the rain out east.

The Riverthon was supposed to take place this weekend. One of the guys in my office was heading down there tomorrow, but just got notification that it has been postponed due to the algae.

New article out now. Seems like they are testing a lot but as of right now it is not good numbers for a swim. Does sounds like they are testing it often and that it is coming down but who knows. I for one wish they would consider delaying the race if that would help. Who knows if time will help.

http://www.courier-journal.com/...water-safe/73231770/

I read that this morning. I don't think they would delay like IMMD as there is a whole different scenario up there.

Numbers are coming down. Cooler weather is here. There is still another week to go. Plan on swimming.

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No joke. I am fully aware of the difference. But they should start considering these delays or alternate plans into these ironman courses. We spend hours and hours training. Clearly it is not ironman or wtc fault but I think some flexibility could be great.

Believe me I am ready to do either course but it sucks to not get to compare or pr or whatever.

I've planned on swimming all along. I'd almost feel guilty crossing the finish line without swimming. That said, I won't complain for one second of its cancelled.

Where did you hear the numbers are coming down? According to that article they are from zero to two times the allowable limit. I am hopeful as well and I think a week might make a difference. There is is something in that article about testing twice before clearance and that it takes 3 days to get results.

That article is concerning.

It's been pretty cold (low in 40s) in Louisville today and yesterday and we've got plenty of rain. I was by the swim start this evening and you can see some of the stuff in the sitting water by the boat dock but have to look closely at the part we swim in by towhead island to see the little specs of it floating. I will say the river looks high and is moving right now and moving FAST. I'm no scientist so who knows if that all matters, but we got the rain and at least brief cooler temps (though it will get warmer starting tomorrow) we thought might help so just have to hope now it'll clear in time.

The article is either contradictory or poor journalism because it doesn't rationalize the following three statements:

- they will conduct testing 4 times between Friday and up to 3 days before the race. This implies that it takes 3 days to get results.
- the swim can go on as planned if the recreational advisory is lifted "even just hours before the race is scheduled to start" This implies they can test early Sunday morning and make the call.
- "Officials will be checking for visual contamination" Does visual mean with unaided eyesight or a powerful microscope?

I too thought the article lacked any new knowledge. And was just wrote to stir people up.

I was going to do a swim workout today, but felt I needed some duathlon training instead.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

It all feels amateur to me at best. I still can't figure out why ironman would not make alterative courses at each event for problems just like these.

-why is it ironman a major brand does not know if we are swimming and the great Ohio swim is all in and even put it on their website?

I would disagree. Maryland was due to weather that would cause issues for the entire race, not just one leg (maybe one leg). Also, while Ironman (corporate) would surely prefer (for financial reasons) that a reschedule takes place so that they don't have to give our discounts on future races like was done at Tahoe. Further, I would imagine the rescheduling issue is done at the race director level, as this person is the one who knows if they can secure permits, have volunteers, etc.

Point being, changing Maryland doesn't set a precedent per se. Each race will have highly different circumstances as to whether or not changing days or weekends is possible. Corporate decisions re: discounts pursuant to a canceled race would be a precedent you could HOPEFULLY rely on (e.g., Tahoe 2014).

Should every race have a contingency plan? Sure; that'd be great.

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@CycleHeavy

My useless two cents worth - tonight's NBC News showed a satellite map with this huge bright red rain storm moving straight as an arrow through South Carolina, across western North Carolina and Eastern Tennessee and then right through southeastern Kentucky toward Louisville. Should die down a lot before it gets there, but hopefully it will help break up the goop.

Better on contingent plans is all I am asking for counselor :)

Clearly you've never planned a race before.

Do you want WTC to get permits, and have alternative routes for all Swim, Bike, & Run courses in all IRONMAN events?

Just in case a freak deal like this comes through?

No I have not directed any races. But over a month before there is no way to get permits from so smaller river or lake to the original course? I am asking. The city seems very supportive from their comments.

Look I was just trying to make a point because there have been several of these races cancelled or modified as of recently. It just seems like with all the money on the line they would move or adjust it but I guess not.

IMLOU, there is no where else they could move the swim, without redoing the whole entire course.

A month is not near enough time to redo an entire IRONMAN course, for something they can't predict, nor plan for.

You can try to make your point all you want, but you're wrong. I suggest you talk with a race director for a triathlon in your area, and ask them how hard it would be to move an entire course, and if it can be done in 30 days.

Thank you for you input. Have a great race. I was just trying to get WTC to think and yes anything is possible as they say. But seriously have a great race and I hope for you and anyone else racing that these outside factors do not effect our personal races whatever distance they may be.

Time to tight up and get ready for 7 days from now.

Lastly only thing we can Pray the testers find good clear water areas with no green junk.

It looks like it all depends where they test. We had some rain and cold Friday and Saturday but forecasted warmer and sunny till race day. People see to forget about this thing called the eastern continental divide. Rain east of the Appalachians is not going to flush anything out of the Ohio. And btw. This really isn't a freak thing as someone else posted. It has been a growing problem in this area of the country the past two or three years this time of year. But didn't really reach the Ohio last year. Was confined to more of the lakes around here. I hope we swim. But it seems like it all depends where in the river they want to take the sample

Yes, I think WTC could afford to get alternate permits for all Ironman events.

Wishing the best for all IM Louisville and IM Maryland entrants.

Permits don't cost a lot. In fact, I'd wager that permits don't cost WTC a penny. The cost of the permit is getting the buy-in of the entire town to effectively shut down and give up their police and medical personnel for the day. I don't think it's reasonable for WTC to get host cities to agree to this twice, and for their planning purposes, the cities would have to plan to be ready on either day not knowing which one will come to fruition. Not to mention volunteers, hotels, everything involved in putting on an event of the scale of WTC races.

Honestly, I'm stunned WTC is trying IMMD again on 10/17. I don't think that can be expected anytime there is a cancelation. What I do think WTC should do is come up with a standard event cancelation policy in which athletes are given free entry to the same event following year or 50% entry to a different event the following year. Or something along those lines. With all the events WTC has these days, cancelations will occur and they should have a standard response.

Not permits for two different race dates, just permits for an alternative swim course and variations in the bike and run related to that.

Off topic, but nothing we can really do about Ohio River anyway. Just curious for those who are racing IMLOU on your wheel set-ups. Have winds been picking up lately? I've got some 90 mm wheels, but will probably bring at least another front just in case.

CLEARLY you have never been to Cambridge. Clearly. The swim course is the only viable swim course where transition is close. The bike course is the bike course and would ever be an issue except for winds and rain. The run is the run.

Before shooting off your mouth make sure you know what you're talking about.

RV

I've been thinking about a possible lack of a swim next week. I'm thinking its worth adding about 10 extra watts to the power target on the bike. Thoughts?

Don't overestimate the swim, it's still a long day. I consider the swim my strength, but if the swim is cancelled I won't change my bike/run plan at all. Maybe not the right decision, but a 9 hr race seems pretty close to a 10 hr race

I wish it was only a 10hr race for me;) But seriously; maybe an extra hour sleep, not having to stand in the swim line for over an hour freezing your ass off, not having to burn around 1000 calories swimming, not having to run through and do the change in T1, not being wet and cold for the first hour on the bike; there's got to be some energy savings from not doing the swim that can be applied elsewhere.

Just saying...hammer the 112 mile bike before running a marathon, maybe better to just run a faster marathon w no swim

Not a chance. If you get off the bike feeling you've ridden too slowly you now have a marathon to make up for it. I did the no-swim FL last year and holding the same watts I did in Chattanooga 5 weeks prior wasn't any easier.

Well, I wouldn't call 10 extra watts "hammering" the bike but I can't argue with a strategy of transferring the savings to the run instead of the bike.

Well said, I may have exaggerated but you made my point

the winds the last 3 weekends have been 10-15

Thank you! Anything is possible and double permits in cities where millions of dollars are coming in has to be easier than say a local race trying the same thing.

Oh well the world of WTC and triathlon won't change by Sunday. Time to throw down the best bike run or swim bike run we can.

I have been to Cambridge. Did Eagleman there in 1997 to qualify for Kona. Returned there several more years. I was a contributing editor to Inside Triathlon for 20 years so I think I know a little about the sport and its history. I have no problem with the Maryland postponement. I was thinking more about the IM Louisville race where there are other options for the swim in the area. That is true for most IM events.

There are not alot of alternatives here though, unless you involve another state (Indiana) and the closing of a bridge. Taylorsville Lake is an option but is 25 miles from downtown and no hotels. Ohio River is really the only option if you keep the epicenter in town.

Yeah, I personally grew less confident of the swim happening when I saw the forecast for this week get warmer, particularly the nightly lows. I hear some say the current is moving, but I'm also told a lot of the algae is still upriver of Louisville. Anyway, I'll hold out hope. IMFL last year was my 1st attempt at 140.6, IMLou is my 2nd. I'm feeling a bit cursed.

I did IMFL last year also. It would truly suck if they have to cancel. Meanwhile, I'm waiting to hear if the Great Ohio River Swim in Cincinnati will still happen. It was postponed from 24 Sep to 10 Oct due to the algae. That race will be sort of a leading indicator on what is going to happen with the swim in Louisville.

Agree that an alternative swim location at an IM would not be in a favorable location at nearly every race. That's where WTC makes a business decision. Do you upset more customers by not having the swim compared to moving the courses to a less favorable location so they can complete the entire distance? Or do you change your refund policy? Or maintain the status quo because the majority of your customers understand? I've never said that WTC should move the race, just that they have the money to consider optional swim locations and get permits.

Agreed, and I think we both know the answer to that. They run the race where it is, without a swim, knowing that the percentage of people upset probably won't offset the vast number of people who will sign up for another race to get the full IM experience. IM Lou has the largest number of first-timers of any US IM. Or at least that is what we are told.

Just out of curiosity...if they take samples from multiple locations do they take the average of the results? What is the methodology to make a fair decision? One of the reports said that the level of toxins ranged from 0 to 2-3x the safe amount. If there is any chance that an athlete could swim through the 2-3x the safe amount do you cancel if every other sample came back as zero?

From a legal perspective I am curious what the risk tolerance is.

I think one of the articles linked from a few days ago said they go by "parts per billion" and 20 is the guideline. A week ago they were getting samples of zero to 40 or 50 along the course and worse readings than that upriver from Louisville. Now that was a week ago before we got more rain and colder temps. I think some additional results should come today from recent tests the end of last week. I keep seeing that it takes 3 days to get results so to me that means Thursday is the last chance. If the levels aren't down by then... Friday, Saturday and Sunday conditions may not matter if 3 days are needed to get results. Here is the latest story I've seen....



http://www.whas11.com/...l-jeopardy/73338714/

I'm a 2x Louisville finisher and the swim is by far my weakest link.....a no swim IM Louisville sounds awesome to me!!!

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

d00d, back off! you're not racing Lou this time! :)

that being said, i'm much more of a runner than a swimmer. should it happen (and I hope it does not), this format suits my strengths.

I'm just envious that you guys are most likely going to at least race SOMETHING on your scheduled date!!!

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I'm a better swimmer than a runner but no way do I want to swim in green algae slime. YUK!

I feel the same way. I want to swim, but not if it will have a decent chance of getting me sick. Swimming in the Ohio is already a risk proposition as it is.

So the article in the paper indicated some higher levels detected in certain locations. A guess (maybe a good guess) as to where the high levels are present is in the channel where the swim starts (water is much more stagnant there). If that is the case why not change the swim course to exclude the channel. One possibility would be to go with the original design -- start the swim at the swim exit and swim 1.2 upriver and then 1.2 back. This could still be a time trial start. The reason this approach was abandoned before the first year's race was because the current was too strong and the weaker swimmers could not make any progress against it. I would hope that the army corps could lend a hand here this year and give us a three hour or so window of low current. You could also implement an option of a bike-run for those not interested in Kona slots, etc. similar to the option to wear a west suit above 76.1 so that the really weak swimmers could still participate.

Another possibility would be a start 2.4 miles or so upriver from the finish. This one would involve much more logistics -- I do not think there is a dock or other convenient entry point in that area. Maybe haul people upriver on some boats to a starting line???

HUGO has the best thought I have seen on here. Go up river 1.2 down 1.2 or whatever. I was thinking something similar..... or maybe change the swim entry point to across the river like in Chattanooga. Or get a boat or two and take us up river and let us swim down. That canal is gross on a good day which could be the issue. Hard for me to believe we can't swim in a flowing river.

My continued disappointment is that this was known back in late august or according to some on here it was known years ago. Why not look for any other possible alternative Yes I think we beat the dead horse there is no where else to swim in metro louisville. I hope WTC and ironman is do something because at this point based on their comments in that KY water blog they seem content with canceling the swim. They say we want the swim but only if this agency lets us. Hopefully ironman has thought of another entry point if needed. That is what I want to hear. We looked everywhere. If you watch any of the videos from the news the river is moving and does not look green like it used to.

Maybe we all need to email ironman and beg them to let us swim.... Maybe if they got 2k emails asking to swim somewhere they would listen.

A good example of companies listening to their customers is delta airlines figured out that people would rather get home even if it was hours and I mean hours later than change to a flight the next day. They call this completion of a segment or something like that bottom line if ironman needs to know most important thing to us with Ironman is the distance then maybe they would look for alternative sites or find areas to COMPLETE the distance.

I am all in favor of swimming, but if it's not safe to swim, it's not safe to swim. You can't force it.

I am all about being safe as well. However I bet if they test this river or any river they would be some junk in it that we should not be swimming in. Austin 70.3 is a cooling lake for some factory deal. Believe me all of us may glow on the inside from the places we swim in triathlons. Believe me ironman is going to error towards safety. If they let us swim it will be safe. I still believe and hope Ironman is doing what Hugo started on here. It seems this river is no as bad away from that nasty dock area. Put us all in the water and do a mass start that would be better any way :)

This seems promising the owner of a tri store thinks there is plan B and C

http://www.wave3.com/...on-could-be-canceled

Ironman just released a statement (on FB page) saying samples from Oct. 1 are well below threshold levels! They're going to continue to test this week, but this is good news, let's hope it stays that way.

Great news!

jmk is the best!!!! Swim time. Keep on testing. I do think Maryland, Florida and Lousiville do show that WTC needs to address alternate courses or something.

Either way we do what is before us Sunday.

They need a 2nd consecutive passed test before they'll lift the advisory. But this is promising news.

Here's the key part of the story..The test results from around the course show microcystin toxin levels to be below four parts per billion. As long as tests show levels below 20 parts per billion, the races will likely go on.
That aforementioned advisory is still in effect, and a decision to lift if by the DOW will not be made until consecutive test below 20 parts per billion are obtained.
Officials say more testing is planned for Tuesday.

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What I do: http://app.strava.com/athletes/345699

From IRONMAN today

Athletes, The Kentucky Division of Water (DOW) sampling results from the Ohio River near the IRONMAN Louisville triathlon race course taken on Thursday, Oct. 1 showed microcystin toxin levels well below the threshold for a recreational advisory.
The DOW, the DPH and representatives from IRONMAN are working together over the next days 6 to continually assess the safety conditions of the Ohio River on race day.
More info here: https://kydep.wordpress.com/

Latest news from yesterday (Oct. 5):

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (WDRB) - The Kentucky Division of Water says recent samples from the Ohio River show improvement to toxin levels that caused an advisory last month.
With several thousands IRONMAN athletes scheduled to race in Louisville on Sunday, officials say the sampling is encouraging.
The test results from around the course show microcystin toxin levels to be below four parts per billion. As long as tests show levels below 20 parts per billion, the races will likely go on.
That aforementioned advisory is still in effect, and a decision to lift if by the DOW will not be made until consecutive test below 20 parts per billion are obtained.
Officials say more testing is planned for Tuesday.

http://www.wdrb.com/...ls-in-the-ohio-river

One week ago its 2 to 4 times the 20 billion level and now a week later is five times below that level at four parts per billion. I don't know what to think about their testing protocols and accuracy.

Is there a water testing person on ST that could chime in, it would make me feel better.

I'm by no means a testing person, but the main difference between the previous testing and the most recent is that Louisville got a pretty good amount of rain and the temperature dropped in between.

And those were the two main things they said would help!

I'm happy they are testing and it will really put my mind at ease if the person making the call on whether we swim or not will chug a big glass of river water prior to the start of the swim ;)

Just b/c it's safe to swim in for an hour doesn't mean it's safe to drink! ;)

Definitely. If we swim, I can assure that the first cup of water I get coming out will be used to swish my mouth and then spit it all out.

My doc said that, when swimming in bodies of water like that, it prob wouldn't hurt to rinse your eyes out with tap water sometime after the race...

We are swimming I would bet on it. Those folks worried about if we get sick. That test that was released on friday was taken multiple days before so it is not a friday to monday deal it was maybe a week or more. I no water expert but I do know that that river is moving and all the rain must have helped. Who knows we might have quite the current! We will be safe. Yes I will clean out my eyes and mouth afterwards but I won't think about the green stuff once during that swim and no of the rest of us need to even think about it. Game time sunday!

Does anyone know what the temperature of the water is?

I think the latest I heard was about 70 degrees.

70.5 at Markland dam, between Cincy and Louisville, down from 75 pre storms

great info, thanks. I had heard we reached wetsuit temperature last week but I hadn't heard any specifics.

http://www.courier-journal.com/...river-swim/73509960/

Looks like the great Ohio swim got cancelled for this weekend.

http://www.greatohioriverswim.com

Good thing its IMLOU as opposed to IMCINCY :)

I'm assuming we're safe, but is anyone else anxiously awaiting those test results were supposed to get today?

The Monday press release said they were going to take another test on Tuesday. I still haven't seen anything.

Kinda, sorta, maybe not related, they did left the recreational advisory in this Kentucky Lake yesterday.

Just sat through the athlete briefing a little bit ago. They talked about the water and it sounds like a definitive answer will be provided by tomorrow. But they were talking about practice swim logistics in the river for Saturday and everything on the IM side right now is planning for a swim. Here's hoping for good news but we shall see.

Yep, I was at the briefing too and since someone above asked they also reported the water temp to be 71 degrees. Now just praying for a good test so we can swim!

Advisory lifted: https://kydep.wordpress.com/...elow-advisory-level/

Does anyone know the likelihood of algae being a problem for next year? Is this something that is normal for Ohio River every October?

Looking to do my first IM next year and would love to do Louisville as I grew up there, but don't want to risk my first 140.6 being turned into a 138.2. Thoughts?

Thanks!

"The recreational use advisory for the section of the Ohio River that encompasses the Ironman triathlon swim course has been lifted"

So Ironman swimmers in the river only, anyone wanting to swim in other areas, don't. Ha!

It's my understanding that it was an unprecedented event but perhaps with global warming there might be an increased chance in the future.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

i agree with sciguy, but to be honest I would look at the website of the Kentucky Water Department for the past treads. I know in Ohio we have had a lot of this over the last three years and it seems to be more often and last longer each year.

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https://robinsonsstrengthandendurancecoaching.wordpress.com/

Advisory is lifted and the swim is officially on.

Ohio River still closed to recreational use for what appears to hundreds of miles both upstream and downstream. Miraculously it's fine right here in Louisville. Can't say I'm surprised.

The map on the KY Division of Water website makes me laugh every time if look at it.

I know the it was lifted the question was will it happen again next year. My answer was go to the history of the river and look or ask for the data from the Water Autorities. The problem with asking on here or facebook is that most of us will be guessing, I always refer to the people who have an education in water studies over people who just post on blogs or forums.

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http://www.toughmantri.com

https://robinsonsstrengthandendurancecoaching.wordpress.com/

I believe this is the first time its ever happened in the Ohio. It has happened in local lakes the last few years but not the Ohio that I know of.

I would say the likelihood of it happening again is higher in years past.

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Anyone do the practice swim?

I did it this morning. Water was 69 but should drop another degree or two since the air temp is dropping to 48 tonight. Water looked fine to me ... not sick yet either. Good current in the main channel...should be a quick swim after coming out of the canal and making the turn.

Good to hear. Thanks for the update.