I am in for the full AGAIN this year. I loved the race last year, really enjoyed the experience and the organization even for a first time race was well done. Sure it had a few logistic hiccups but I am always willing to forgive the little stuff.

I am glad the swim course is changed to keep us from swimming out to that far bridge where the crazy current was. The two-loop idea keeping it close to transition is much preferable.

I am also glad to not have to ride 15 miles out (and back) on the AC Expressway. The two loops in the forest should help at least mitigate the crazy wind we had last year.

I know many people criticized the boardwalk run but I just thought that was the best thing ever. The wooden surface was a joy to run on when that horribly tired, and there were spectators all along the route by default even though they may or may not actually be there to see the race.

I *thought* I was going to be demoralized by having to run past the finish line 4 times (it hurt at Tahoe to go past it at mile 17 and go back out into the night), but this time it was great being able to see people multiple times.

Really looking forward to this race again.

Did it last year but not in this year. kind of surprised it didn't get more signups this year. I thought it was very well organized and I also enjoyed the run on the boardwalk. Lots of distractions to keep the pain away. Good luck to everyone doing the race this year!

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First full for me, making the jump from Olympic. Dreading the run - because of my run fitness, not the boardwalk part - but looking forward to the race. Part of a team, training with them has been a blast (look out for the ALS Hope kits).

Swam the course for the AC Tri a couple of years ago and the swim is two loops of that, and based on the preview ride last weekend (which covered the state forest part around Hammonton/Shamong etc, not the roads from AC to that loop) the bike course is mostly flat and fast.

I'm in as well - but for the half. My fiance's family has a house in Margate so I'm used to the area and have run on the boardwalk quite a bit. My goal is to go faster than I did in St George in May... which I can hopefully do given that the course is supposedly flat + fast on the bike and the run.

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Strava

I'm in! This is going to be my first 70.3 distance. I really went back and forth on which one to do, but ended heeding the advice I've read on here to do the one that is closest to you for your first one.

I'm glad they changed up the swim course. It's going to better. It's basically the course for the Atlantic City International which I've done a few times. I did the preview ride last week as well. That was cool. The roads seem to be in pretty good shape.

He mentioned at the ride that there were 250 in the full and 850 in the half. Looking at the athlete guide, the half men start at 6am, half women at 6:05am. Assuming fairly close to a 50/50 split does that mean there could be 400 people in the water for the start?? I've never really experienced that kind of mass start.

Anyway, really getting amped for it.

In for the full as well. glad to be back. looking forward to the new swim course and the bike should be interesting as well.

Noofus - i believe it's only one loop and not two. just checked the full map course. apologies, if i mis-read your post.

nothing beats the run on the boardwalk and i think Steve really did us a huge favor this year by changing the run course and having us run on the north end three times and only two times on the south end. looking forward to the run. this could setup a really huge and long finishing cute if anyone is still out there cheering us on.

Whoops! You are right. I think back when Steve was originally talking about modifying the bike course he said something about making it one-loop for half and two for full, but now that I look at the official course map I see he made it one loop for the full also. So ignore that part of my post, I was incorrect!

This will be my first full. Looking forward to it. Hopefully I have trained enough and will not die on the run. If I can run the entire marathon, I will be happy.

If you have trained reasonably well, then the one of the hardest aspects of a full IM is the mental anguish near the end. Part of that can be from loneliness, as many IM courses are dark and mostly devoid of spectators out in the far reaches of the course. This is not the case here. You will never be far from all sorts of people, and visual entertainment while you are running. The AC boardwalk is a weird-ass place to be on a normal day, let alone while trying to run. I think it is the best part of the course!

In for the half

Familiar with the swim and run from Tri AC the last few years. First time with the 70.3 Training is off so finishing and not getting hurt any worse is the goal.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Thanks, I was thinking running on the boards, and all the people watching, would make this one of the best runs. Hopefully a nice ocean breeze too.

Did the Full last year. It was my first full and I loved it. But, our 3rd son was born 9 months ago. So, 1 Newborn + 2 little boys = the most training I can manage for this season is for 70.3's. I was so excited when they announced the Half option. My previous best 70.3 time is 5:02. I really, really want to crack the 5 hour mark.

Oh, and I agree about the Boardwalk run. I'm really looking forward to it. I was skeptical last year, but the drunks and skanks and hotties and tourists and clueless and supporters and locals and beach and ocean make the run go by so quickly.

I am in for the half this year....DNF'd the full last year (multiple flat tires on the second loop of the bike). Looking forward to the positive changes to the course, e.g. revised swim and bike courses. Delmo and Vigo do a great job with the races in South Jersey, should be a great day.

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Jamie

I am doing the full as well, its my second time doing a full so i am excited that is for sure! I did the practice ride, and i liked that it had some rollers (small) to keep you interested. The race is coming up quick! Anyone else from CT doing it?

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I'm in for the 1/2

In for the full. Stoked for this race! Running on the boardwalk should be a lot of fun. I am from CT 30 minutes north of Hartford.

btw, numbers that may be only relevent to me, but it's good to know come race day

This was done on mapmyrun and i rounded.
Run Course (full) - N Albany Avenue to Montgomery Avenue is .7 miles away (Montgomery is the turn around point for the last lap)

Montgomery Avenue to Martindale Avenue is 1.7 miles away (significance because this is between rest stops (2 miles) and the dead area of the run). The Ventor City Tennis Courts is somewhat the halfway point from Montgomery to Martindale. Note: i believe some of us did say that we needed another aid station on the south end and it doesnt look like it's happening. So the south end/quiet section/south of N Albany Ave section of the run is about 2.4 miles one way or 4.8 miles total (we do this twice). So im carrying a small nathan bottle with me to fuel for that section.

from Martindale to Metropolitan the distance is 4.6 miles, 9.2 miles for one loop which is done twice.

Nice! I am right in the Manchester area and can't wait!

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So I just signed up to run the marathon leg of a relay team with Race2Rebuild. 9 days is enough time to train right?

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
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Great race. Wish I could be back for year two. The run on the boardwalk is amazing. Have a great race!!!

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Sure! Hey that boardwalk run makes it all easier anyway. :)

Did last year and wanted to go back and race faster than my first full. Threw out my back in March and changed to half. Looking for that chance to break 5 hours as well. 5:04 PR so far.
After 3 knee surgeries l was very skeptical of boardwalk run. But it was great on legs.l was worried about warped boards like most boardwalks have. But not here. People watching helps pass the time. Especially after all the solo training. There were some people not paying attention and looking for us. Probably yelled "On your left" or "Excuse me" seems like a million times.

I'm in as well. First 70.3 and super excited. Only second race ever actually, so looking forward to the crowds and getting to see family several times on the run course.

If I'm reading the above properly, there is a 2.4mi sections with no aid station? That seems like an awfully long stretch. I might need to carry something small also.

I'm in for the 1/2 as well. Glad the race isnt today as the weather looks rough for those people racing today in the northeast. Still need to book one of those fine AC hotels.

For those who have done the race, how is it running on the boardwalk?

The boardwalk run is awesome. It is a very forgiving surface to run on (probably more important for the full-distance guys, but still), and there are crowds everywhere. Great vibe.

Hey CMD.

there's a 1.7 mile section on the south end (this is after you first come onto the boardwalk by making a right. after a .7 mile run you will hit the first aid station. after that the turnaround is 1.7 miles away and there's an aid station at the turnaround. you then need to run back another 1.7 before you hit the same aid station.

so yes, i would carry something to get you through that section even though it's very early in the run. i believe you only do this once whereas the full does it twice

Got ya. Should be a fun race though. If "spectators" (aka beach traffic) isn't awful it will hopefully be a pretty quick run too. Boardwalk is always comfy and it's looking like, although waaaaaay to early, weather will be low-mid 70's and cloudy with some showers. Stay cold for the swim, dry for the bike and then showers for the run. Works for me!

That forecast might as well be just for show. Wait until Thursday or so before taking any stock in it.

I know I know. I'm so fired up though, I have to visualize something. Friday to start the weekend can't come fast enough.

That forecast might as well be just for show. Wait until Thursday or so before taking any stock in it.[/quote]
And even then take with a grain of salt. Last Thursday, Syracuse had a 90% chance of thunderstorms for all day yesterday. Storm didn't roll in until 2PM and lasted for 15 minutes. I felt bad for anyone still out on the course as they cancelled the race at that point though

Right. I don't even really care if it rains - hey it helps keep the body cooler. Standard potential rain race protocol applies. T2 bag gets an extra inner bag, fresh socks, small towel and a stick of body glide. If I get off the bike soaked, it takes an extra 15 seconds to dry the feet, get some glide on there, fresh socks, and dry running shoes.

I'm in for the full! Second one for me (did Vineman last year). Signed up for this one because the bike course goes right through my BIL's neighborhood. So the whole fam will be there, kids & hubbie will play on the boardwalk and beach during the run (between showing up at preordained points, yelling preordained things at me). Really looking forward to it. Have had a hilarious taper, with all sorts of weird phantom pains and such -- plus I pulled a muscle in the arch of my foot on a roller coaster ride at Kings Island last week -- don't ask me how that happened! In my overzealous icing, I freezer-burned my heel (felt like I poured acid on it). But now that's all resolved. I'm not leaving myself unattended between now and Sunday though.

I intend to have a freakin epic day!! Hope you all do too. See you out there.

I'm in for Half. Temp is expected the low 70s and a chance of a cooling shower. I'll take it. I watched the race last year and it was in the high 80s and was a tough unshaded run, so this will mean a fast race unless the boardwalk is slippery.

Question for those of you who raced last year. How did you manage bike during check in? I'm guessing most stayed in town for the race so you checked in then went back and got your bike. I stay a few towns away so my intial thought was I will have to make two trips. One to check in at Bally's and then back home to grab bike before heading to Bader field. Or is there a secure area to leave bike at Bally's while checking in?

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Last year many people felt safe enough leaving their bikes leaning up against the back wall of the expo area while they checked in and wandered the expo. Only race-affiliated people were in that part of Bally's at the time so I figure it is *likely* safe-enough, although obviously not at all secured. I certainly wouldn't leave the bikes even locked to a car bike rack outside.

I'm in for the half too. Really looking forward to it. I'm traveling all the way from Alaska.
The swim is salt water, correct? It seems like awfully warm water temps for any type of salt water, so I just wanted to check.

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http://www.tri-ingtokeepwarm.com

Yeah, it is salt water. It's in the back bay, so I don't think it is terribly deep.

Although I am surprised it gets as warm as it does as well.

Right? Especially for Atlantic Ocean, but sounds good to me.

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http://www.tri-ingtokeepwarm.com

Yup, salt water in a shallow back bay.

There were times last year where I actually stood up during the swim and ran a few yards because it was faster than swimming with my hands scraping the bottom.

Water temps look like they are hovering around 74 right now but be warned: last year at the Saturday practice swim the water read only 70, but on race morning the tide was going the other way and the temps read 79-80.

Good to know. I'll be prepared for wetsuit or no wetsuit.
I haven't received any emails or communication from race organizers. Has anyone else?

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http://www.tri-ingtokeepwarm.com

No, nothing yet. It also would be nice to know if the swim start is time trail or wave, and to have a map of the transition area. As much as I love Delmo's events I always have issues with the transition areas as I don't feel like they properly map them out to us prior to the race, or mark them well during the race. This may be my n=1 idiot experience but never had an issue anywhere else.

FWIW the ocean temp was 69 degrees last weekend.

I would check the facebook page as the week progresses - it usually has the most up to date information.

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Strava

Ocean temp is not the same as the back bay temp - here's data from a USGS station located at the bridge where the first turn of the swim happens:
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?01410560

It doesn't seem to want to embed, but if you change the trailing number at the end of this URL (i.e. number of days) you can change the timeframe for the graph:
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/...d=00010&period=7

The swim start is mass start for the full. Not sure about the half.

Half starts in waves beginning at 6am. Full is mass start at 7:00

Great link. It is definitely toasty back there.

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http://www.tri-ingtokeepwarm.com

Thanks.. where did you get that info? I'd be interested in knowing wave order, etc as well if that info is available somewhere on the website. Can't find anything in the athlete guide.

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Strava

Pretty sure that was in the athlete guide. I know I have seen it either on the website or the guide.

Athlete guide is online. Has the swim start info

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I was under the impression the half is a mass start as well.

Male @ 6am, then female at 6:05am.

There are 850+ in the half, so I would think at least half are male.

I just checked the guide.

6:00 start all half men
6:05 all half women
6:10 all half relay and AB.

7:00 mass start for ALL full, relay and AB

I emailed the race director and he just told me that the half is a mass start. I read the guide but it doesn't specify, just says "6:00 am start" as you all have noted.


I also asked for a map of transition and his response was, "When you come Saturday to drop off your bike you can and will see the whole set up"

OK, thanks....

Also nothing for spectators in the guide.. not that it is difficult to figure out (stand on the boardwalk), but usually this information is provided. I would like to hand something to my fiance and her family so they know exactly where to be. Especially for viewing the swim/bike, just hang out near Bader Field??

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Strava

A map of transition? That seems a bit much. In any case it is a simple setup - the swim exit goes into T1 through a chute where they have a firetruck pumping a fresh water shower. You run past the truck, into the row of bags on the ground (assuming you are racing the full I guess) and into the tent. Do what you need and hand off the bag, out to the bikes and go.

For the half, well, I don't know as that is new this year. I suspect you would just veer off left of the tent to just go to your spot.

How many are registered for the full? Did I read correctly somewhere that it was around 250? Kind of a sad little number... but I do love the small races.. Will make the mass start pretty mellow. But we're going to be pretty lonely out on the bike!!

It will be an honest bike then, but I can assure you won't be alone on the boardwalk. Fantastic race, have a great time - I wish I could be racing!!!

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Entry list for the full:
http://timing.rev3tri.com/...-84C6-81E41217D242/2

They still have you, and many pros on the registration list. Did they just not remove you guys, or are there some pros actually planning to participate just for shits and giggles (which I can't possibly imagine doing)?

I would not be surprised if a few elite license guys show up - however, I will not be showing up for S&G. Wish it was a pro race still, maybe again in the future because I would love to go back and especially now with IMCDA moving to August.

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A transition map is a nice-to-have. I only ask because I have been the 1st out of the water twice in races from this RD, and twice, volunteers have sent me in the wrong direction. I've also found course markings to be a bit light and/or misleading. Two weeks ago at Escape the Cape some police officers directed me down the wrong side of the road and cost me almost 60 seconds on the bike. But I'll stop complaining now and HTFU.

Weather looks to be improving from what I can tell! Wunderground has the heavy stuff stopping right around 6 am (unfortunately this won't spare our bikes from the rain).

Does anyone know where spectators can watch the swim/bike?? No info on this in the athlete guide or the email they sent around 2 days ago.

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Strava

Looks like you guys are gonna luck out with the weather, I was down the shore near AC last week, it was hot and humid, but not this weekend, Good luck to those competing.

Anyone know if there's an athlete tracker? I know there was last year, can't find it this year.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

I believe ia link will show up tomorrow or late tonight closer to race time.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I was looking at results from last year and the timing company had four mats on the full distance bike course. I don't know if it's the same this year, but I'm hoping the mats will be out there again this year and you'll have link off the Challenge AC website to those times while the athlete is out on the course.

Did anyone else have the bike course being long by about 2 miles?

I did the full relay and I had the bike course as being spot on.

I thought that was a pretty good course, a few turns were a little sketchy though. Like when turning into the gas station and having to hop that little lip.

I had it around 58. It listed as that on the results.

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

That was indeed interesting...

One suggestion I would have for Delmo is LARGER SIGNS. I have to constantly keep my eyes peeled for the tiny 1 foot long sign with an arrow on it, plus a few strips of neon tape on the road. I was 2nd almost the entire way on the bike and this was stressful, even after studying the course pretty intensely beforehand.

Not to mention a few unguarded intersections where I had to look both ways before crossing, and cars making u-turns across the course without looking.

I had the bike course as being 2 miles long, too.

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Strava

I also had 58 miles on the Garmin. More aid stations on the run were needed. I was dying between mile 4-7. Should have brought my fuel belt. Post-race food was great!

Yup. I had 58 miles too. Did anyone miss there finisher shirt? I didn't see any.

You had to go into Boardwalk Hall to get your tshirt.. not well advertised.. I had to ask a few volunteers before someone knew where the shirt was.

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Strava

I think they must agree with this number because on the results, if you add up the different segments, it comes to 58 miles. And, if you divide your time by 56, it doesn't work out to the average speed in the results, but if you divide that time by 58, it does match up.

I agree about miles 4-7. Me too. Totally bonked in there and the distance between aid stations was toooo far.

What about the swim distance? I didn't do the race but the swim times seemed slow.

I think it was probably just about right. I was a minute slower than usual, and I'm usually pretty consistent, but I went off course a bit in the middle which probably cost me at least 30 seconds.

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Strava

Anyone know where you can see overall results. I saw the link for looking up individual but I am curious who won OA and AG's?

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

http://timing.rev3tri.com/...CD-84C6-81E41217D242

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Strava

that's the one I was looking for, thanks

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Did anyone notice any significant current?

I did the 1/2. Going against the current at the start and at the end. Also pushed you towards the shore. Felt it more at the end as I had to keep adjusting towards end buoy.

Per my watch, I had the swim at 1.3, but I did poorly sight one of the buoys, so I was off course a little bit.
I had the bike at 58 and change as did everyone I spoke with. Happy to say I completed my first 70.3! Certainly a little humbling. I faded on the run for sure. I have to figure out my nutrition on the bike for the longer distances. It's something I'm not used to having to really deal with and I don't take enough in.

Overall, I really enjoyed it! That storm the night before had me pretty nervous.

Did the Half

I thought the my swim was slow but never really felt a current certainly nothing like last year. Definitely could use a boys on the swim.
I had the bike at 58and thought the course was really good except they needed another drink station on the "loop" portion.
Run was great on the boardwalk but the stretch without an drink station was a bad.

Overall the race was well done .

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TEAM ZOOT 2020

I did the half this year. Bike was confirmed as being 58+ miles (I clocked it at 58.15 on my Garmin), but overall a really nice ride, fast. The swim was right around where I thought it would be, I think I clocked it around 1.3 miles, but like most my sighting isn't the best and I am sure I was off course a bit. As for the run, I was dying on the boardwalk. Aid stations every mile would have been ideal considering the heat and lack of shade, but I have heard there was a shortage of volunteers.

All in a all a great race and expect to be back there again next year, most likely the half again.

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Jamie

First loop of the full I felt only a modest current but when I got to my second loop there was a fairly strong current. Swam the first loop in 34:45 and finished the swim at 1:16

Did the full again this year (did it in 2014 as well). really enjoyed this race. As everyone mentions, they don't come much better than DelMo Sports - these guys are great. They did an especially exceptional job this year, given the brutal conditions in which to operate on Saturday - these guys pulled on one hell of a race / experience. Swim was great, bike course was equally as great - some wind, but flat some rollers - well stationed, well marked....run on the Boardwalk for me was great, some people don't love the constant flow of people in AC, but do me it serves as a nice distraction....overall great race, job very well done by DelMo. Will be very curious to see how this race progresses year after year....definitely lots of demand in the area for a full in June in this area....the half will only grow as well. great stuff.

Agreed. Despite the challenges from the weather the day before and from what I hear a few aid-station stocking snafus, they pulled this off amazingly. I had a great day out there. This was my third full distance race, and my second at CAC. I preferred this year's bike course to last year's despite the constant headwind. The long segment on the AC Expressway last year was no fun, this course made a much better ride.

The boardwalk run was just as amusing as last year. I certainly don't mind the insanity of having to deal with the oblivious crowds. Adds an element of interest to the race.

I did the full last year and the swim/bike on the full relay this year. The two-loop swim was much much much improved course (you always knew where you were on the course and how far you had to go) and while the second loop of the swim had just as much current as the swim did last year, and slowed down lap 2, current can happen at any race that isn't a lake like Mirror Lake (at IM-LP), so whatever. The bike course was a dramatic improvement...30 miles on the AC expressway last year was not fun (with 15 or so coming back to AC head on into the wind and going against traffic). Really enjoyed to more scenic and shaded bike course this year and the roads were mostly fine...no less windy, but you're going to get wind in AC (and can get it any any course, like IM-WI almost every year). The run course was vastly improved by keeping most of it on the boardwalk, though one aid station was oddly missing. All in all, I thought Delmo Sports and Robert Vigorito did a fantastic job putting it together. I don't suspect the full will survive much longer, because the numbers don't seem to support the cost, which will be too bad because it is a good iron-distance race and I would consider doing it again in a couple years.

Did the full (my first) and thought Challenge/Delmo did a great job, especially after that storm on Saturday night. Swim along the Bader Field side of the loop was interesting, especially on the second loop - I could have sworn someone was moving that inflatable Gatorade bottle along the shoreline just to fuck with us.

Bike course was great, lost time to two flats in quick succession early on (~mile 20) but even with the winds it didn't feel bad at all. They did a good job of clearing some downed trees/branches at a few points on the course, and the police traffic control was outstanding - I don't think I ever had to slow down through a single intersection. The diversion through the Wawa parking lot was different, but I can see how Wawa wouldn't want the entrances to the gas station/store blocked to vehicles all day.

The boardwalk crowds and music made running in the casino part of the course much easier for me, for some reason - I had a hard time on the southern and northern ends of the boardwalk where there were way less people. The two aid stations down at the Ventnor end could have been spaced out a little more to help fill the gap between Ventnor and the casinos, but it was nice to be able to run through beach showers (and use a bathroom) down that end. The volunteers and cops did a great job of keeping the course clear through the crowded areas, but there were still a few oblivious tourists walking around looking up at who knows what - had a few near-misses.

Like you said, it would be a shame if the numbers don't justify keeping the full around

I actually thought the half bike course was hard to follow, in parts. I was 2nd coming into the airport circle with the leader barely in sight - and the police had several large orange cones directly in front of Tildon(sp?) road - the actual course - and were casually directing me THROUGH the gaps in the cones. If I wouldn't have seen the leader barrel through the cones I might have kept going around the traffic circle. It just seemed like they were not ready for the first group of riders and probably got things sorted out by the time the rest of the pack came through. Many times they were still moving barriers around when I came to a corner and I had to ask them which way I was supposed to go.

Just my 2c but it's frustrating and frankly a bit nerve racking when the signs are very small and police/volunteer presence is lacking.

Other than that minor complaint I think they did a fantastic job.

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Strava

Congrats on your first full distance. Just curious how you did? I plan on doing my first full there next year if they keep it around.

??? Wasn't the total count for the full this year about 1/3 of last year?

Less than that. 158 finishers this year and 519 last year. Put a fork in it. The full at least.

The half had 550.

Challenge really needs to reassess their model in North America. It's just not working and their year to year registrations are proof of that. Even the legacy Rev3 races are stinking it up.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I thought this race was awesome! I liked it much better than IMLP. AC is a great place for a triathlon.

You and 150 others agree. ;-)

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Full disclosure...I have never done a Challenge race. I do not have tons of money to throw at risky projects, so I would tend to go to races that I know will provide a good experience. Not sure Challenge can do that. Literally everything from afar about the Challenge events looks bush league. Just a few examples:

The Challenge Family website STILL lists CAC as the next event.

The CAC website has absolutely nothing on it to indicate the event even happened.

The CAC website gives as the number one reason to do the event this year is to be part of history by doing the inaugural event. Apparently, even Challenge forgot they held this event in 2014.

Past Results take internet sleuthing to find. They may be back up now, but the 2014 CAC results were down. Almost as if Challenge does not want to admit their races are losing entrants

Compare the video of the last finisher at CAC (almost dead silence) with the raucous finish at IMLP (or any IM)

CAC athlete tracking compared to the WTC tracking on Sunday was not even close.

Challenge regularly announces races that never take place (Minorca) and never even provide an announcement the event is cancelled. At least WTC owns up to it with an announcement when they cancel a race

Challenge races cost practically the same amount.

That whole Roth program is idiotic.

I know, I am being picky. Putting up good websites does not equal putting on a good race. But I do not think putting up a decent up to date website is that hard. And the Challenge sites show a lack of attention to detail. That same lack seems to show up on race day based on reports (low signs, confusing course) based on some posts on this thread. So, good luck Challenge. I will keep watching your websites to see if at any point you are worth risking my money.

Can you provide proof of these points? I am looking at the websites and don't see this at all. (Your other points are at least not invalid so I removed them from the quote)

Regardless you were vocal about it last year to the point of being quite obnoxious, yet the event went off quite well. The event this year was also top notch especially considering the logistical challenges mother nature threw in on Saturday. Nothing about the actual production of the races seems "bush league" to me and I have been through a number of their races at this point. I have enough IM-branded experience to compare as well and sure while they might not be able to pull off the scale of production that IM can, Challenge still puts on a great event.

Not sure if you personally have an axe to grind with WTC competition but I will vouch for CAC (Half). It was a 1st class triathlon, from bib PU to the actual race to the great finish line setup. Maybe the site needs more attention but coming from the people who did the event I think it is largely positive feedback. I will be back 100% for sure. I actually earned myself a free room at Ballys for next year :)

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"Base training is bull shit" - desertdude

IMO, Challenge should pull out of the North American market. Their merge with Rev3 looks like it did nothing. The legacy Rev3 events that went off as Challenge races this year saw a slight increase of 10% (Knoxville) to decreases of 20% (Quassy and Williamsburg). We will see how the other legacy Rev3 events go as the summer goes on... but with the exception of Cedar Point there's not really a "popular" race in the mix.

The Challenge events themselves have been a joke. AC brought in 150 people for the full (and only 700 total) this year despite being within a few hours drive of about 100,000,000 people. Penticton is an absolute disaster. Nobody gives a shit about St. Andrews. New Albany is gone after one year. Rancho Cordova never happened.

If I was Challenge I'd sell Cedar Point, Quassy, and Penticton (the halfs) to WTC and let WTC have them as 70.3s. Shitcan the rest of the races and concentrate on Europe where at least they have some semblance of a chance.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Well, almost 600 did the full last year. 150 did it this year. Your right...that is GREAT positive feedback. Races that are so well run almost always see a 75 percent drop in participation.

My point, though, is that if Challenge wants people like me to try their events, they should do just that wee little bit to get me interested. I think rather than looking at it as an axe, it would be taken as constructive criticism. Since that word of mouth thing does not seem to be working for them, perhaps making the whole thing look first class would help.

Not sure how you earned that room at Ballys, but you may want to book another room just in case. Casinos are leaving AC faster than full distance registrations.

I did the CAC full both years and really enjoyed it both times. I was disappointed to see how few people were signed up for the full this year. Challenge seems to have done all the right things with this race, picking a site that's easy to get to for a huge number of people, with plenty of accommodations available, things to do outside of the race, etc. The race itself seemed very well run to me. The bike course was well laid out, well patrolled, good pavement, etc. Run course was entertaining and spectator friendly. A swim course in a tidal bay is always gonna be tough/slow, which will scare some people away, but I can't imagine that's the big driver of low turnout. There's clearly demand for a full distance race in the area (look at all the mid atlantic residents traveling to IMLP, IMMT, etc), but I think Challenge has underestimated the allure of the M-dot. I'm not sure there's anything they can do to get people to give them a chance. I've got nothing against WTC. I've done plenty of their races and they do a nice job. But so does Challenge. I can't understand why IMLP, IMMD, etc sell out, but CAC only gets 150.
You're right about the website though. No idea why they can't update that and show results from CAC race.

If that's the part I think you mean (Tilton/Delilah Roads?), that was the only intersection I found a little confusing. There were a ton of cones and barriers all over that circle/intersection and I couldn't tell what was the correct route through it, but the cops started pointing me in the right direction as I got to it and got me through it with no issues.

This was my first Challenge event (I've done Rev3 Knoxville a number of times) and it was different from any WTC race but I won't say it was better or worse. Just different.

Was it as smooth and polished as a WTC event? No. Was it more enjoyable? IMO Yes. The location was fun, there was lots to do before and after and they did a great job adjusting to the crazy weather conditions the day before.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Maine has also been a very large event for them. I wouldn't discount that race from your analysis. I'd find it doubtful WTC would want it, given Timberman 1-2 weeks prior as well as Tremblant.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Regarding the website stuff, I agree, that is something that bothers me when the organizers can't keep things updated, It's just attention to detail.

But as far as the drop in participation, I want to give them a one year pass and I think next year is the tell. The first year, with that horrendous swim course and the problems with the bike course, I think is what caused the drop in registration for 2015

They really cleaned up the swim and improved the bike course for this year. Granted it will take word of mouth, but I think people waited to see what they would change for the 2nd year and how it would work.
If it's getting positive feedback, which I think it is, it will be interesting to see if the 3rd year is a bounce back.

I think Atlantic City could be a great destination for a race like this. I root for that city, but it is on the ropes for sure. I feel like these races lack community support. We stopped in at a bar post race after we ate and it was a handful of locals just bitching about the road closures. The CRDA can be in full support of this all they want, but they aren't the ones that are going to blow through an intersection due to frustration and hit someone.

But ultimately, I really think they should consider dropping the full and really making a fantastic 70.3.

There were 283 people that did the half last year. So yes... I'm discounting it. I don't consider 283 as a very large event. That's an age group for WTC.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

283 finishers is not 283 registrations. I'm also assuming that you're not looking at the Olympic, which draws a good-sized field, nor the aqua bike and relays.

The 2013 version of the event was also much larger. The Maine tri scene was very dead in '14 across the board (40-50% decline in registrations statewide) with a significant rebound noted thus far in the year.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I DNF's the full last year and finished the Half this year. In order for this race and all other US Challenge races to be successful, they need honest feedback from anyone that is willing to provided it. The race director requests if from all participants via surveys, Facebook, Twitter, etc. He certainly is on Slowtwich reading this thread. I enjoyed the race on Sunday, but there are definitely some issues that need to be addressed right away...I haven't even looked at their website so many of your comments could be spot on and should be fixed. In as much as many people base WTC and Ironman branded races, their races are extremely well organized (my only gripe is the cost of their races).

There should be no reason that Challenge AC doesn't draw 1,000+ participants considering its location, but in order to do that it has to get the little things right (e.g. website, course length, etc.) and then market the hell out of it.

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Jamie

I did the full and my garmin measured 112 for the bike. Can't get closer than that.

As did mine - but the half was actually 58 miles long, which is what I think people are complaining about. It wasn't advertised as being slightly long, yet it was. Personally I don't see it as a big deal but there were definitely a few people complaining loudly about 2 extra miles.

Hell even IM Chatt is "long" by a few...

I got 112.2 on my Suunto, but I can't remember exactly where I started/stopped it relative to the mats.

THIS!!!


"Swim along the Bader Field side of the loop was interesting, especially on the second loop - I could have sworn someone was moving that inflatable Gatorade bottle along the shoreline just to fuck with us. "

I thought the same exact thing!

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

About this "That same lack seems to show up on race day based on reports (low signs, confusing course) based on some posts on this thread. "

We're talking a first year / second year race. Confusion can happen anywhere and I'd suspect many races run into this in their first few years. I didn't see any sign for a turn for the 2nd run lap at IMLP one year. Race directors didn't make it clear where this would be in any diagram or at the athlete meeting. And that was a 10+ year old event at the time.

I had zero problems following the CAC course either this year or last year (full disclosure, both times only doing swim-bike). Could some things be tweeked to be even better than they were this year, surely. But no part of this event, either this year or last year, was "bush league".

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

Oh. Ok. So just the websites are just bush league. Thanks for the clarification. So, what is the date for CAC in 2016? Just curious.

I found June 27, 2016. Registration is reportedly opening in September.

FWIW, I agree the websites need major work.

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

Kudos to you, because I could not find it on the main Challenge site, CAC site or Facebook. Ironically, I asked because I am likely signing up for the half as it is not far from me and will fit in perfect for a test run for IMMD (another race I cannot believe I am going to sign up for). I agree with GMAN (and have said before) Challenge ought ot abandon the whole full distance in the US and focus on the half. If they put all their energies into putting on great halves, they may be able to build a niche. And of course...they can fix their websites. :)

Honestly they kinda are focusing on the Half distance. Most of their races are Half/Oly. They only have two fulls in the US (AC and Cedar Point). I don't think it hurts to continue to include that as an option in those two locations. Of course I would prefer to see a larger crowd for the AC full as this year was quite lonely out on course.

The half at AC seemed to be a really good size race. I really do hope this continues as the venue is certainly unique and brings its own bizarre flavor. Dodging oblivious fat people on the boardwalk becomes a sick amusement on its own :)

Imo CAC is a much better full than IMMD.

Finally finished report at www.dreambigjp.net

THANKS to DELMO sports for putting this event on! Although there are many things that can be improved I LOVE this race! It's clear the race management cares about the athlete experience and I really believe if they can find a way to increase entries many of the problems can be taken care of. It's tough to run a race of this magnitude on a small budget. I hope it survives. It was the most exciting race I've ever been part of and a HUGE congrats to all finishers!

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Jeff Paul
http://www.dreambigjp.net
XTERRA (Pro Deal Code- SA-JPAUL) GU Energy Kiwami, Zipp Wheels,

I think CAC was a solid race. There were just over 550 people in the 70.3 with a lot of no-shows. I might blame the storm the day before for scaring some off but man that made the weather perfect.

Is two miles on the bike course a huge deal? No. But I flatted with 55.5 on the gps and said to myself "Screw it, I'm half a mile from transition". Yeah, I was more than pissed to find that it was actually 2.5 miles because I would have made a very different decision at that moment. Just announce it in advance! It isn't going to scare anyone off and we can all be prepared properly. The map the day before the race said 56. The pre-race meeting the number 56 was thrown around. Then in the results it says 58. Every RD says "It's your responsibility to know the course" - I agree but I should know the distance. I know that where I flatted is the rarity but you can see why I even debated coasting in.

The run: It is what it is. The boardwalk is crowded and unshaded. The issue I had is that the volunteer at turn 3 was giving bad information to people and having people do a little loop before they could head to what was actually going to be turn 2. I stopped and explained to her that she was giving the wrong info and she said "Sorry, I am just a volunteer" - I thanked her for being there for us and explained the turns. Know your course, right?

I think Delmo is a very good RD. My suggestion is to take a good chunk of the run off the boardwalk and only have the final five miles up there. I don't think anyone really enjoys dodging the foot traffic and pedi-cabs so much that they'd be unhappy with a change.

I had a good experience and will consider racing it again. If I were Challenge however I'd consider pushing back the date to September. With Eagleman/Syracuse so close it is in a dead zone. With the demise of the Princeton 70.3 it could really fill a hole in the Fall. My 2 cents.

I actually LOVE the boardwalk run. I did the full last year when we left the boardwalk and that was the worst part of the race. I do think they could improve it by marketing more to people down there what is going on. I don't mind dodging people on the course...I think it all adds to the excitement. I've done many other IM where the run leads you out to where no one is at on the course and I enjoyed being able to see familiar faces every 5 miles rather than at the start and finish. I think the boardwalk run is what COULD make this event majestic but you are right...lots of things to fix.

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Jeff Paul
http://www.dreambigjp.net
XTERRA (Pro Deal Code- SA-JPAUL) GU Energy Kiwami, Zipp Wheels,

Last year they had out sandwich boards in the crowded parts of the boardwalk saying "Race In Progress". None this year. I am sure that might have helped. IN any case I much prefer this year's version without the run to Margate. That was just too hot out there on the asphalt. Staying on the boards the whole way was much better. If I remember correctly, you were the overall winner, so congrats!

Either September or mid May!
I think the weather in AC mid May would be a perfect for racing. Probably less crowded as school is still on.

If the trams were just a bit faster you could pull in behind one of them, they clear a pretty nice lane ;)

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

I don't understand all the bitching about this. Same day our results reflected the 58mi. We all raced 58mi on the bike. It was not an advantage nor disadvantage. There's no one racing that race who is so damn precise with their power outputs that 56mi is perfect for an ideal run but 58mi destroys their legs and the run is ruined. It's all non-sense. Sorry they didn't tell us 58 in the first place. Life goes on. The race otherwise was a blast. Considering the weather conditions exceptionally run. I'd have done the full if there wasn't a half option as well. I think that plays into the attendance drop. I can also tell you that I had several teammates who had originally signed up for the full (6 I believe) and ultimately transitioned to relays bc of injuries. Wonder if that happened with others as well. I'll definitely go next year again no doubt. The other races these guys put on (Delmo Sports) are packed and solid races. They were doing AC well before Challenge came along and specialize in ocean front community races. Yes there are improvements (aid stations for the 100th time), but for a second year race under a new brand, they did a nice job and attendance was solid.

Anyone have any info regarding the status of the FULL for 2016? Site still has no info, would imagine they need have something up there soon as people start to make summer plans. Really hope the have this race again, the full....enjoyed and think there is so much upside to the location and the venue.

RD is involved with my tri-club since he has so many local races his company runs out here. My understanding from several folks and from the Facebook group from this year's race was that end of Sept was when we should look for registration to open up.