Ct is nice but I sold mine to buy a kickr and don't regret it. The wahoo plays well with so many 3rd party sites and is decades ahead in terms of software. Can't go wrong with either but I would choose the kickr again and again.

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Human Person

My comments relate to Computrainers only as I have not used a Kickr, mind you a number of my friends have them and are happy.

I currently use my 2001 model Computrainer exclusively using PerfPro software, so I' think I'm at the current high water mark of software. Racemate stuff, is basic, but still works.
speaking of works, the unit I have has been in use since 2001, no updates, no repairs just one replaced cable from the local distributor, who I bought the unit from ( well my wife bought it as a birthday present - love my wife(still))
in another 14 years time, I assume the same computrainer unit will be operating, but what software will be in use I can't foresee... but I know that the unit, the basic software and the stand alone controller will still be usable. And still with the same wife....

if I was buying today at equivalent price, I'd get a Computrainer, but there is a reasonable price differential that further muddies the waters

Neither. Get a power beam pro. It's got a smaller size profile, is less expensive, has 20% off right now, and works great!

Those are the costs to get them working. Add a PM for the kickr.

One you just get on and ride, the other you seem to spend more time playing with to get to work.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

i have owned both and really like the Kickr. In terms of an actual trainer, it's much nicer, very heavy flywheel, no tire interface, solid frame. The CT has wires hanging everywhere and a dated software interface. The CT in ergo more is supposed to be more accurate. I have been happy with the kickr and don't feel the issues with ergo mode reading low are a problem for me, but you may want to research and decide if you care. There are people who like both a lot.

I reach for my rollers a lot too though.

I own a CT, never had a kickr
I always wondered what I would do if the CT dies.

From speaking to others, what is great about the Kickr is the variety of apps out there. That being said, I have tried all kinds of things, Zwift, Suffeferst, Ergvideo, Kinomap and many others and the novelty lasts about 5 rides per application. I end up reverting back to watching ITU races while in Erg mode.

What I love about the CT is the consistency of the power measurements. My CT has become my reference when I am doubting my PM.

So consistency of readings, outstanding reliability and the expense of not having the coolest app that I will lose interest after a few rides.

A Kickr+quality PM will give good power measurements but is more expensive if yuo don't have the PM.

and you know this from direct experience, right?

A couple of questions.

1. Do you have a crank based power meter?
2. Do you have a spare PC that you can use for the software or do you want to use IOS or Android tablets/phones?


Joel

I actually could never get a computrainer to work because of the funky connection that it needed to my computer (I rented a computrainer to try it out). On the other hand with the kickr I just plugged in a Ant+ stick and started off riding.

In terms of having a power meter you really don't need one you just need to realize that the kickr reads a bit high (about 10 watts for mine) and compensate appropriately. I prefer to have a my power meter control it not because of the power differential but because it means I am using the same power source that I will using outdoors and therefore I can have a valid outdoor/indoor power data comparisons.

I know you love computrainer and your velotrons and that is fine but there really are positives and negatives to both platforms and for me it really came down to a $600 price differential not to mention I was going to have to buy a new computer for the computrainer for another $500 or so dollars because my computer would not work with the computrainer like I said before I rented one and tried it out...


Joel

If you have a power meter, you don't need either. Get a decent trainer and subscribe to Trainer Road or one of the other online trainer programs.

If you don't already have a PM, get one and then get a trainer and subscribe.

I've had a CT since 2002. I always thought it was a piece of crap until I got on Trainer Road.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

I gotta say, I don't entirely understand this "kickr has better software" idea.

The kickr doesn't come with _any_ built-in software other than the little wahoo control app for your phone (which is equivalent to the sweatproof controller for the CT). The racermate stuff might be a bit dated, but at least you can do simulated rides and workouts with it out of the box.

Zwift, Trainerroad, PerfPro, Tour de Giro, Bkool will all work with both, so the 3rd-party support is equal. As a developer, I can tell you the CT is much easier to work with and far more reliable in terms of getting connected and staying connected.

Addendum: After 4 months of 2-3 hours/week this winter, my kickr is broken. My CT suffered through much, much worse and is still going strong.

Edit: Dgran gives a more even-handed roundup than me below.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

I own two CTs and I've tried the Kickr, but that doesn't make me any expert on the matter but I've read a lot of commentary on this topic and this is what I believe it boils down to:

• They are both quite good. Look hard enough and you will find extreme love or hate for both though, but somewhere in the middle most people seem quite satisfied.
• The CT has wires all over the place and people kid me that it looks like some dialysis machine. You will appreciate having fewer wires when setting up or moving a Kickr and you will appreciate the reliability of wired communication if you ever have electrical interference. A lot of fanfare is made over this issue and it seems a bit of a straw man.
• If you use just one bike on the trainer then no worries about cassette compatibility on the Kickr. I've known some people who need to switch cassettes in addition to bikes and it would be easier for them to use a tire based contact point. For the vast majority the chain based contact of the Kickr is simpler.
• The chain based contact ultimately means less friction points and no tire wear but this is a pretty minor point. Most people I know either use a dedicated training wheel with a durable trainer tire or just use left over worn tires from the outdoor season. Keep the tire clean, mount firmly with sensible press on force and this issue largely goes away.
• The Kickr has more software options but it seems like the most popular ones are available to both platforms.
• Based on holding the units in your hands they both seem quite durable. It is too early to say with the Kickr but if you are the sort who likes to buy things once and use them long term there is no shortage of people who are still using a CT that they bought during the Reagan administration.
• I suspect that Wahoo will work out whatever kinks are reported with power numbers reading high or drifting, but that stuff will be unacceptable for some people. You can get bad readings on a CT as well but it usually goes back to user error calibrating and it is a pretty simple act.
• On paper the Kickr doesn't require you to calibrate each ride, but people seem to be doing it more often than required by the book to work through the aforementioned issue. On either platform it isn't such a big deal to spend 5-10 minutes warming up the unit and your body, but some day the Kickr firmware may be tightened up such that you don't need to regularly calibrate.
• They are both pretty quiet. Oddly enough the thing that will make either of them loud is having a dirty or worn chain and the loudness is often proportional to the speed of the chain.
• Some people really get into the spinscan stuff for the CT. I have a host of strong opinions about it, but there may be something of value there as long as you ignore the snake oil claims about pulling up the pedals.
• The Kickr is less expensive, no doubt about that. Most people suggest that it makes sense to buy a CT used since they are bomb proof, which evens it out a bit.

The KICKR accuracy/drift issue is also amplified tenfold here on ST because it's a very vocal minority. The vast majority of KICKR owners do not or have not had this issue. Mine was within a couple percent to my Quarq right out of the box. Not discounting the issue because I'd be pissed if mine was 30W off too but anyone reading ST would believe 99% of KICKRs were faulty when that's just not the reality.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I agree mine is usually somewhere between 5 and 10 watts high and it is very consistent in that difference.



Joel

My buddy and I took a different approach to this and recently compared. I got myself a used 2002 CT Pro and he got himself a KICKR. The issues I hear people mentioning here about wires is a moot point IMO. I've taken the wires, run them below the matt and I cut a slit for them to come out from under the mat and plug into the load generator. My controller is mounted to a Microphone stand and the wires run up through the stand into the controller. The only wire you can see is the Cadence one that is on my rear non-drive side chainstay and even that is again routed through a small slit cut in my matt and fed up. I've been using a laptop circa 2008 to run TrainerRoad, Zwift, RacerMate One and I've had no problems (granted it has a decent video card).

My buddy bought himself a KICKR at the same time. He's had trouble getting it to work with his iPad, his TrainerRoad interface has much less options, he can't watch movies or races during his sessions, and he has the accuracy issues. He is happy with it but when he came to use my setup he was KICKRING himself in the ass. He wishes he had taken my approach to the "Smart Trainer" setup and pocketed the extra cash.

I bought my CT for $800 all in (Canadian $)
His KICKR was $1300 (Canadian $)

Hope that helps

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

The Computrainer is wired and it just works. If you've ever had your wireless connection drop in the middle of an interval on an erg you'll appreciate the importance of this.

Not only that, all the vocal Kickr critics seem to by default use their 'non-Kickr power device' as the gold standard without a good reason for choosing it as the gold standard. Obviously if the Quarq is off your real FTP by -10 watts, and the Kickr is +10 watts, they're both about equally inaccurate, but you're going to blame the Kickr for being +20 watts off the Quarq and thus 'unsuable' if you don't reference correctly.

I think a few folks have been able to beta test against multiple simultaneous PMs which makes a better case for a 'gold standard reference', but the vast majority of folks automatically assume their powermeters are 100% accurate, which is certainly not necessarily the case. I do get that if you race with a powermeter, you want your Kickr to reflect your race equipment, but that still doesn't mean you can critique the Kickr for being off if you can't justify the powermeter as being 100% accurate.

I'd get the Kickr. Only reason I got a CT is because I found one "Like New" for $500 with everything included plus a bunch of additional stuff. Can't beat that price.

referrring to the 3rd party apps, but thte simplicity of running it through the iphone either with TR or WAhoo is a nice touch. Matter of preference. Haven't missed the CT once since I switched, but it was a nice piece of equipment.

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Human Person

Plus for me at least, indoor vs outdoor ftp have always been different so I need to re-test outdoors close to my race anyway.

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Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.

I have a CT, and have never used a Kickr. My CT has been dead reliable for me. Kickr appears to be a more modern, well thought out design as well.

The most compelling reason I see to go with CT over a Kickr is that ErgVideos are only available for CT.

Here's my argument, so bear with me.

Go with a USED CompuTrainer. Here's why...

The CompuTrainer is a robust, if obsolete design, but it WORKS. Ignore the OEM software, and get a copy of PerfPro or SufferFest or even Golden Cheetah, and start training. The RM1 Real Course Videos are HUMONGOUS, and are NOT that great. Furthermore, the companion software for them is hard to read, clunky, and you still end up believing that your speed can be duplicated out in the real world. It can't. In fact, you'll probably be faster out in the real world, for reasons I can explain separately.

But the system is NOT worth $1600. Get a used one - they haven't really, truly been updated since the 90's, and honestly, the firmware works well enough that you can use them with ErgVideo, PerfPro, et al, and ignore the OEM stuff. The money you save, you can invest in better videos or coaching.

MY #1 problem with Kickr is this - the ramp up to load for shorter intervals takes WAY TOO LONG, like 15-25 seconds. On a CT, if you're doing load-based intervals, the response time is 2-3 seconds. For this reason and this reason alone, a USED CT is worth the investment.

Good luck no matter what your decision, but this is my $.02, and I say this having had over 20 years of frustration with RacerMate management and owners.

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie

Computrainer: bulletproof; easy to set up; works like a charm with the ever evolving Trainerroad.

Seems odd since I don't need a PM for my Kickr. Best part is I just jump on and ride and don't have to worry about playing around to get it to work.

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Twitter@Forsey37

My kickr works great and only cost me $900 Canadian. I use mine all the time and works fine with TrainerRoad. The only difference is when using it with the iPad it won't give you the 3 second count down when the next interval is starting. Although they are planning adding this feature soon. I also watch ITU TriathlonLIVE with TrainerRoad. The only thing I haven't been able to do with it is have Zwift and TrainerRoad on the same screen. So I Zwift on my monitor and TrainerRoad on the iPad.

I also have a Kurt Kinetic that works great as well.

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Twitter@Forsey37

seems odd since I don't need a PM for my CT. Best part is I jump on and ride and don't have to worry about about playing around to get it to work.

oh yeah, I forgot about the 20 seconds I lose having to calibrate the CT which I have set for the 9 min mark.

Kickr or CT, all good either way

I've got a CT which I love.... I dislike all the extra cables, and I popped a tube the other day on it, but otherwise, it's been really good.

If I travel somewhere (inlaws for xmas, for instance) and wanted to bring it along, it'd be a nightmare to pack up all the wires, etc... So that could be a consideration for some.

There is not much love for the PowerBeam Pro on here.. seems CT or Kickr and that's it. Any thoughts as to why? Good compromise between the two systems, $100 less than a Kickr and a head unit that is pretty slick.

The wires are a mess to travel with, I'll concede that as I've been traveling a lot with my CT lately. I genuinely don't know why the PowerBeam Pro doesn't get more love. The bonus of that trainer is that you can take it with you to a TT to warmup as it functions like a normal fluid/mag trainer when you don't have power.

I didn't realize that... cool feature! I think DCRainmaker said that the accuacy was about 5%.... versus 1-3% for the other two... perhaps that's a reason?

I didn't realize it was that inaccurate. That would be a good reason but, honestly, that seems suspiciously inaccurate.

Whareagle wrote:

MY #1 problem with Kickr is this - the ramp up to load for shorter intervals takes WAY TOO LONG, like 15-25 seconds. On a CT, if you're doing load-based intervals, the response time is 2-3 seconds. For this reason and this reason alone, a USED CT is worth the investment.

15-25 seconds? Is that your experience? Mine takes about 3 seconds to hit full power for a short interval. Look at my file from Tuesday, and zoom in on the three short sprints during the warmup. You'll see that it takes about 3 seconds to go from 150W to 525W.

https://www.strava.com/activities/312492321/overview

2% for the Kickr, 2.5% for the CT and 5% for the PBP

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...=4311,4312,4314,4315

You can say what you want to... but my KICKR was WAY OFF.

People who train with power know what 225 (or any given power) watts FEELS like ROUGHLY. On my KICKR it was way too easy.

I used my SRM and the Garmin to confirm the discrepancy. Yes... my SRM might be off a bit, but I recalculated my slope to confirm accuracy.

I now use PerfPro to control my SRM to control my KICKR... and the numbers are dead on in terms of interval average power.

The KICKR alone was easily 30-40 watts off. If someone can't tell the difference between 225 and 185... they have a problem.

Quote:

If you don't already have a PM, get one and then get a trainer and subscribe.

+1

Yup... and I also think that those people without a PM probably wouldn't care anyway. It's just the psychos like me (and maybe you)... who make a big deal about it.

I have a friend I ride with... a pretty strong guy (with no external PM)... called him a few months ago to tell him my KICKR was way off and that his might be too. He said "So what... Im still riding hard and improving." :)

I agree with this. I did structured workouts throughout the winter on my kickr, and it would ramp from one wattage to another within a couple seconds (though sometimes it seemed to miss the "change wattage" command). I think I've heard that the new "slave to a separate ANT+ PM" feature might be a bit slow though. One crazy option in this case might be to try moving your kickr closer to your PC or tablet that is sending the commands, in case they're getting missed.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Perhaps they've fixed it with a recent firmware update, but IMHO, I've had about six clients globally who owned them, and we all ended up switching back to CT's because the Kickr's could not keep up with short-intervals, Tabata's being the sort of prime example. The Kickr's basically allowed them to 'cheat' the workout, at speed and cadence values that were unrealistic. We made the folks in Georgia aware of this, they acknowledged it, but they deferred on the time for possible updates or fixes.

We also had several that were NOT accurate. We tested against P2M's, Quarqs, and Vectors, and it was painfully obvious that the Kickr's needed a better calibration system, and suffered watt-drift over the hour.

The CompuTrainer is no beauty. I hate the stand, the controller is hard to read and painfully obsolete, but the load generator just plain works, and they DO have a decent recalibration/refurb system at RacerMate.

Finally, if you have a CT that you're convinced just isn't reading right, IM or email me off-list, and I'll show you the manual potentiometer you can tweak to get the slope adjusted for your personal accuracy or goals.

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie