"Is this the best IM bike performance of all time? Joe Skipper's 4:10 at IM Texas? 304 W Average"

don't let devon see that ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Starky's 4:02?
Raelert's 4:11 followed by a 2:40 marathon to set the fastest iron distance time ever at Roth 2011 (7:41)?
Kienle matching Sindballe's bike record (and only 2min off Stadler's still standing course record) last year to win the race?

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

Which were the other 2 rides he refers to? Were they on accurate 112-mile courses? This one came a bit short according to his own tracker.

Someone already said starky, think he has done low 4 a few times, check fla results

I think Ralaert's don't match up (talking just bike split) only because of the Roth factor. Starky's 4:02 might be in the same class. Does Skipper's ride compare with some of the top performances in Kona. I think so.

By the way, I changed the title to clarify my intent (best performance of all time). The splits are easy enough to measure.

You'd assume based on this bike data that Skipper's FTP is in the 380W range. Devon Palmer can go nuts with this, especially since he also out biked Lionel.

Not even close. Single event as part of second tier race? C'mon man. We race TRIathlon, not bikesplitpalooza.

There was a guy at IMTX with a green Mohawk. Way more impressive as a stand alone aspect of part of a race.

Which forum are you on? This forum is about the race to T2!

Bike performance has gotta be inextricably linked to run. Granted, he had a solid run as well. However, there are probably a dozen triathletes, who, if you said the race was to T2 (not the finish line) could have gone faster. Pick any of the uber bikers. That course is fast!

ding ding, we have a winner. Devon's post wasn't much, but I suppose when you misread and mangle it, it's surprisingly offensive and memorable.

Nope, not even in the top 10 all time. It might be the best bike performance at IM Texas 2015. I'm more impressed with Corinne Abraham riding 4:40:39. In fact half the womens field rode sub 5.

To put this in context, Contador posted his numbers for a pre Giro training ride. 7:20, ~300W average, ~5000 meters of climbing

Dev, lay off your anti-Euro course bias.

So some second-tier pro hammered the bike at IMTX. So? Next year none of us will remember, unlike Stadler, Sindballe or some of the other notable Kona performances. It won't become a household name. Not the same ballpark.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

In my opinion, would not make my top 5....

so many better performance:

Stadler twice in kona
Starky in florida is a better performance in my book
I put Thomas Hellriegel kona, imc etc...

for someone that can deal with the heat, texas was a very fast bike course.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
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I discount Starky's 4:02 at IMFL only because I was there that day and the course was weird. It was like we had good winds only, all day. Starky mentioned it in an interview as well. I have never come close to matching that speed for that power ever again, yes I rode it clean.

Also, the ride in question here, at IMTX, was short, about a mile or between 2 and 3 minutes at those speeds.

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

Wow, you're actually accusing me of anti Euro bias? I actually spend over a month over there per year, and actually am very supportive of the non US view of the triathlon world....go check the Faris thread for who is bumping that one. You're probably too new here to realize it. Sindballe, never backed up his fast bikes in Kona with anything. Stadler was in his own class and as Jonnyo said, so was Hellriegel and they both backed up the rides with runs strong enough to take the win. Kienle never got quite a good enough day as Stadler did in 2006, but if you put them head to head on today's equipment, I'd pick Stadler and Hellriegel over Kienle. Joe is young, so give him some time. Sure he is tier 2 right now, but isn't this exactly how guys move from Tier2 to Tier 1. In 1995, Thomas Hellriegel destroyed everyone at Lanzarote. No one knew about him, even though he was 6th at ITU world's in 1992. Then he destroyed the entire field in the fall in Kona and put 13 minutes into Mark Allen at T2 and took Allen 23 miles to close. I wouldn't dismiss Joe immediately as a Tier 2 guy. He beat a bunch of higher tier guys....I saw Ralaert, Rapp, Hoffman, Faris beaten by Skipper, so he did not do too bad.

I do think the top pros got to beat a lot of the headwind back to Woodlands though, but given that we have the power numbers the >300W average is solid. That's solid watts from a guy who is not that big. Check out the Texas top 10...looks like the 2 of the smaller guys occupied the top spots :

Challenge races don't exist in Dev's world. He can't see past his Ironman bias.

If we're just talking bike course, then there are a couple of guys who rode Roth under 4h (as a team though) but still. Regardless of Roth being a tad short, it's definitely not flat and sub 4h there is amazing. I recall Steve Larsen commenting on the course after racing there saying things like damn that course is not flat.

Yet another american will won't do anything special once the competition turn up.

huh, what?

Link?

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Contador tweeted a pic of his power meter after the ride. I don't have a link handy. Amazing for a 136 pound dude.

One moment it's a Euro vs non Euro debate, next thing this turned into an IM vs non IM debate, no shortage of reasons to take shots that have nothing to do with the original topic....can we discuss the performances without worrying about where someone is from and what brand of races they did? For the record, I have done Roth, Wildflower 4x, and countless other non IM races and raced on 4 continents so really have no beef against any continent, they all have their plus and minuses. In any case, I am hoping the thread can be about Joe's performance, rather than what some of you guys don't like about me. Can we park those for another thread?

It terms of courses, Roth is still fast and a bit short (as was Texas). I agree Roth has decent climbing and some tough hills, but Andreas is no where near his Roth bike splits anywhere else including Kona even in his peak ? In terms of runs off the bike, Joe Skipper is not a slouch. He ran 2:48 on the Bolton UK course when he took the bike easier. Perhaps he felt that in the heat of Texas he would be better off lighting up the bike and have a bigger lead with Lionel and then roll the dice on the run. Given the likes of what Ben Hoffman, Faris etc were able to do (and even Lionel), Joe's strategy does not seem that bad on that course on the day.

It would be nice for a moment if we can park the national animosities and just focus on sporting performances. No one is shooting down Irish athletes (I believe that is your nationality), and I am not sure why you need to beat on Americans (also it was unclear if you were calling Steve Larsen an American, which he was, or Joe Skipper, who is certainly not, given that he is from England).

Worth noting that the high humidity made the course quite fast. Humid air is less dense than dry air. H2O is a lighter molecule than either CO2 or N2 or O2. As Jonnyo said, IF you were acclimatized, it was actually quite a fast day out there.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

No, I'm old enough around here to know you think Austria, Roth and Frankfurt are all short, and all European IM-distance courses are suspect. Highlighted the critical word in my post.

Everything you said about these athletes is true and I agree on every point, both historic (and I'm learning a lot of sports history from your posts) and regarding Skipper's ride. However, a strong ride that ends with a top-5 - or even a podium - by a relatively unknown pro happens quite a bit. Every year during the summer IM season in Europe we have a few young Germans hoping to be the next Uberbiker - every once in a while one of them makes it through the race, often with impressive times. By next year, that performance is forgotten... And I fear Skipper's 4:10 will end up the same. I've got nothing against him, and maybe in 5 year's time, we'll hear of this (and is IMUK run) as breakthrough performances of the next big thing - but the IM circuit is full of could'vebeens who showed immense promise and then were forgotten.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

OK, I agree I have stated that Roth and Austria have had multiple measurements showing they were short. Frankfurt from what I understand is legit. I have done neither Frankfurt nor Austria so I can't go off "first hand accounts". In fairness, Texas was a touch short, so was Whistler, so was Tremblant, so was Nice, so was South Africa. At least I have garmin files showing they are all a touch short. Kona is the full distance. Austria also did things like optimize the transition set up for pros so that they could get faster overall times (read "record").

If nothing else Joe just proved he can perform in Kona like conditions. Will he be able to pull it off again in Kona ?....my 2 cents as a fan is "not if he rips it up again in July in Bolton". I think only Macca and Kienle have ever gone nuts at a summer European Ironman and then repeated the feat again in Kona. Mark Allen used to always say that you only have one good race at that distance per year, and he used to say that he'd rather lay lower in the summer and peak in the fall. It might also explain the could'vebeens you refer to. It is also tough with today's qualifier run given that guys have to pretty well rip it up during the spring/summer season just to get to Kona. Joe is currently 27th in the KPR and I don't know if he needs one more full IM or not to get a July invite. From what I understand, Bolton is a bit of a "home event" so easy one to do for him.

Rinny tore up Roth this summer just because she felt like it. Caroline Steffen also had a good Kona year (2nd?) after winning Frankfurt in 2012. Raelert on his 2nd-place year, too. But I completely agree that those who rip it up in the summer are usually not the ones who perform in Kona.

As for Joe - I wasn't out there, but a teammate who flew over (and punched her well-deserved Kona ticket) reported mainly the humidity, less the wind. How will he survive the winds? Tiny guy... Ivan Rana also found it hard to bike there, and he's not a slouch on the bike (decimated the field at Austria last year, on the bike of all things).

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

tldr

I should have clarified it was pro men who have difficulty going really fast mid year and repeat that in Kona. Pro women have done it forever going back to PNF. Pro women are also 30-50 lbs lighter than pro men, and they run slower than pro men, so they are able to recover better (in general) from a fast pace off the bike marathon and re build for October.

I have no idea whether Joe will continue to improve as he has done year on year in a relatively new sport for him - and neither do you

not sure why you "fear he will end up the same - based on what ?

i don't disagree that there is always someone who surprises but I would not discount those either

maybe judge him in two years but surely not now ?

At the same time thats what you want a pro to do, to prepare for a course proper and its seems he did it very very well. it was a very strong performance.
what i like aobut his race he commited to it and gave it a shot preparing for 4 weeks in texas comming from the uk.

This is what I am kind of getting it. He has shown a strong bike (Texas) and a very strong run (Bolton). Will be interesting to see what he can do moving ahead. Swim is a factor though, especially in Kona. Let's put him in the 55 min salt water group based on a 55 min freshwater (albeit flat water) swim. He's going to need to ride with Kienle and/or Sanders to get the most out of the bike leg in Kona. It could be very interesting though. I think the biggest winner with all this firepower could be Kienle. Then again, Frodo could just sit in with everyone and have a field day on the run assuming he has no flat/penalty issues.

we are in violent agreement ! throw in starky and will be very interesting indeed

i hope he is being guided informally at least by someone with more experience, don't think he has enough years under his belt to self coach and self coach well enough to do well at Kona


cheers

In his blog he says he is self coached. I think for Kona, he'd be best to lean on a few former champions willing to take him under the wing and provide some general guidance.

I don't see Starky anywhere near the top 100 in the KPR men, but maybe I missed something in my scan:

http://www.ironman.com/triathlon/triathlon-rankings/kpr-men.aspx#axzz3bB51fMda


The crazy thing about the KPR and how brutal it is would be Andreas Ralaert close to 100th place. If you don't have a good Kona and don't have any fall IM points and have a bad spring day, you're basically on the outside looking in!

One more to add....Fredrik Van Lierde's 2013 win in Kona was off a win in Nice in the summer that included a hammerfest 2:42 run. He was being chased pretty hard by Bart Aernouts who ran 2:37 (and yes, Nice run course is a bit short ~ 4 min but still those are really fast runs).

I love to read your stuff, but triathlon is not a bike race.

I think the other person got confused. He was currently doing 296 watts when he took the picture: https://twitter.com/...s/592008951035797505

and averaging just over 16mph for the 120miles of the ride so far.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Appreciate the messages guys but if I'm honest that bike split definitely wasn't the best of all time.

In my opinion you would have to have a decent bike at the world championships such as the ones like Kienle has been doing on the one day it matter when everyone is in top form. Or like Norman used to do. Also starkys 4.02 is much better then my 4.10.


As for the run, I felt good getting off the bike and starting and actually though I was going to win it as last year I ran 2.48 in Bolton, a 2.47 in Barcelona which included T2 in the total rjn time and I did a full change into run kit. I actually averaged 307w in Barcelona on the bike the problem was I punctured on the bike and ended up borrowing a wheel off a spectator so lost loads of time and ended up only coming 6th. In Weymouth the run was short but had it been accurate it would have been a 2.43.

I'm running much better at the moment and that is actually my strength not the bike. I struggled in the heat a lot. Living in England and racing in Europe you never experience humidity and heat and that was the first time I had ever been in that environment.

I'm looking forward to racing kona and it would be good to see some of you guys out there.

Joe skipper

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Triathlete specializing in 70.3 Distance and Ironman.

joeskipper.co.uk

Great to see you on here joe

Been tracking your progress after looking for a power file for IM UK and finding yours , that's a slow course btw

Flying over to take part this year and hope to see you on top of the podium

Best of luck and a congrats on a great race in Texas

Joe,
1. Congrats.
2. Great blog read, thanks.
3. Welcome.