There are starting to be more and more options in this space, but this sounds like you need something a bit burlier than is "normal" for gravel roads.

Last year I test road the new Raleigh Tamland, and I was very impressed with this rig. I've run a lot on the logging roads out west, so I know the terrain, and the Tamland would be a good option.

http://stevefleck.blogspot.ca/...road-less-taken.html

Hope this helps.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I think the biggest part of the challenge is understanding what kind of surfaces you will be riding on. From my very limited experiences the quality of logging and forest service roads around here varies quite a bit, even mile to mile on the same road. For the most part things can be managed on a CX bike, but with a hardtail and much larger tires you don't have to spend as much time thinking about where you are pointed going up rough/loose climbs. A shock is also nice, but not needed. I prefer the CX bike myself since there is generally at least some road riding involved to get to where I am going and riding an mtb on the road is, well, miserable.

Regardless of which route you go, I would highly recommend going with very low gearing (34x32 or lower). As you said, these roads will drag on forever (30+ minute climbs are not unusual) and doing them at a cadence of 55 gets to be a drag after awhile.

Likewise with the brakes, hydraulic discs are probably for the best if they fit in your price point. Not for power but for ease of use. You want something that will not be super tiring on your hands as you try to maintain control doing down rough/washboarded -15-20% roads. I ride with mini-V's myself and don't lack for power but hand fatigue can be an issue for me on long descents.

Fully rigid carbon hardtail mtb. (Niner Air 9 RDO. With both rigid/susp forks and second wheelset, it's one of the most versatile bikes I've ever owned.)

The Open U.P. is super versitile. But maybe a bit pricey.
http://www.opencycle.com/blogs/article/introducing-up

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Jimmy Archer

I have a Tamland. It's a great bike although I replaced the 50t chainring with a 44 or 46 I think which made it more gravel worthy. It could use a nicer fork and i've considered replacing it with a carbon thru-axle fork. You should look at the Salsa Fargo too. It's kind of a do-all travel bike and i waffled between the two, but i was turned off by the Fargo not having fender/rack eyelets. As Steve said, there are a lot of options out there. The Santa Cruz Stigmata is particularly drool-worthy. Also Niner RLT.

Cross bike would be my choice.

Here you go. A nice gravel eater with 700C wheels, 2.1" wide tires, 80mm of front suspension, and a road drive train. I based it on a closeout 29er frame.

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Not sure if it's "perfect", but right now I'm riding this more than any of my other bikes - Specialized Tricross Elite Disc.



Got 28mm small square-block tires on it currently and it's a blast on paved roads and packed dirt. Had 40mm mountain bike-style knobbies on it over the winter and it worked really well for trails and paved/dirt/gravel road riding. Got a set of studded 35mms ready to throw on it for next winter's ice/snow rides.

My new Surly Straggler. Thing is a TANK. Fits tires beyond 45mm wide. I've got some 35mm Clements on there getting ready for a gravel race. Also, it's a 1x10 SRAM road/mtn goup mix with a 44 in the front and 11-36 in the back.

My only question would be why are you asking a bunch of triathletes about riding off pavement? :-)

Seriously, you might want to check out the forum at RidingGravel.com or some of the content at Gravelcyclist.com or the Gravel section at Cyclocross Magazine

Lots of good info there on bikes, tire, gearing, etc selection for forst road riding, gravel racing, ultracross racing etc

For me, I have not ridden my MTB or my Tribike, since I got my Litespeed T5G (gravel) last year. And I ride mostly Forest Service Roads here in TN and Western NC and it has been perfect for me.

http://www.litespeed.com/...asp?content=T5G-2015

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Tim Anderson
"It's the nature of the internets that you get some dweeb who knows nothing about (insert topic here) pontificates about (topic), believing that his/her opinion is worth the same as opinions from those who actually knows what's going on." --Echappist

 


I just went through the process of buying a gravel bike. I have a CX bike I'm selling since I don't do CX races. The key issue is tire clearance. There are two bikes that made my final cut (both are considered 'endurance bikes'):

http://www.jensonusa.com/Jamis-Xenith-Endura-Elite-Di2-Bike-2013


The issue with this bike was caliber brakes and 10sp. Not really drawbacks for me but all advice I got was disc and 11sp *shrug* The bike website says it will clear 30, which is PERFECT for gravel grinding (my gravel roads are your a-typical dirt roads. Nothing major). I was just about to pull the trigger on this when I stumbled upon this bike:


http://www.jensonusa.com/Orbea-Avant-M30-Disc-Bike-2014


This bike not only has disc brakes but also the ability to add regular road brakes. Thus I can put on my Flo 60s for the Gran Fondo's I like to do. The bike also has 11sp Ultegra. The bike does clear 28mm tires but some online say it will fit 30mm. Either way, both sizes are great for gravel.


My third option was Specialized Roubaix but the price points were too high. This is the bike was professionally fitted on so I knew it fit and the Jamis geometry almost mimics Spesh (generally speaking). Orbea stack and reach fit in my parameters as well. It will be more aggressive than my CX bike I think, but I also ran my CX with short stem.


Good luck with your search. It's a tough niche to find to the perfect bike. I think I did with the Orbea and if it truly does fit 30mm tires I will be EXTREMELY happy. :)

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

I've ridden a lot of these roads on my Kona Jake the Snake with cantis and descending was brutal on my hands and nerves. Big tubeless tires and hydraulic brakes should fix most of that.


I'm really liking the Focus Mares AX 1.0. SRAM hydraulics, a geometry that should be easy on my back, and the price point is very reasonable at somewhere around $2500CAD. Swap out the crank with a SRAM 42-28 (or even 39-26) and put a dinner plate on the back and I'll be able to climb 10% grades at 80-90 rpm and stay under threshold.

Now, how big of tires will it fit and can I tow my Voyager bike trailer with the QR thru-axles... guess I'll be talking to my local Focus dealer.

Is hand fatigue a canti thing? I have mini-V brakes on my CX bike, they´re easy to set up, stop well and don´t wear out my finger grip. Obviously I got the cheapest ones around (Tektro RX3) but they work beautifully, particularly since I realized they don´t need toe-in.

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

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I have an old titanium Merlin mountain bike I use, but I really like slowman's bike here: http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ed_Freedom_4520.html

The production "successor" to Dan's custom is the Litespeed T5G. Love mine.

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Tim Anderson
"It's the nature of the internets that you get some dweeb who knows nothing about (insert topic here) pontificates about (topic), believing that his/her opinion is worth the same as opinions from those who actually knows what's going on." --Echappist

I wish I had a Litespeed budget but Ti is going to have to wait until after my 18 month old is finished college.


Another option for others looking for the same kind of bike:

http://www.trekbikes.com/...oad/touring/920/920/

Reminds me of the Salsa Vaya...another basically drop bar 29er touring bike. If no money for Ti, why not steel? Is weight that much of a concern? Lots of cool bikes out there beyond the tank-like Surleys. All City, Soma, Salsa. Even a lemond poprad disc if you can find one still. I rode gravel on my Lemond Sarthe with 28mm commuter tires but I find that to be waaaaaay to skinny a tire for descents over rough terrain.

So after much deliberations it's down to two bikes, neither of which I can ride before hand. The Focus Mares AX 1.0 and the aluminum Niner RLT9 (built from a frameset to similar spec as the Focus). I'm looking at 56 in both... how big a difference is that half degree difference in seat/head tube angles and extra 1cm of chain stay and 15mm of wheelbase going to affect handling?

On tighter trails, I find my Kona Jake the Snake tends to push wide... It has the Mares short stays and wheelbase but the RLT9's slacker angles so if I want a more nimble bike go with the Focus and if I want more stable go with the Niner?

In principle, yes. Obviously choose based on planned usage, likes, weight, etc. (If you already own a Jake-T-S... maybe go with "more nimble" Focus.)

I've been very happy with my RLT and am contemplating buying a second frameset to build up as a singlespeed.

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"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson

There's gravel and then there's gravel.

Every bike that I own is ridden on pavement, dirt, and gravel. If I'm going to be riding mostly pavement, I grab the one that sports 32mm tires. If the ride has more dirt and gravel, then I go for the bike with 38mm tires. And if it's really rocky/rough, I grab my 29er.

If you want specs/details, I can post 'em.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

Actually, I'm wondering why you need a new bike ;) I know the formula, number of bikes you need = n+1, where n= the number you currently have. However, if you already have what can be a capable "gravel bike"...then why another one? I rode that blue thing I posted a little bit above on singletrack for 2 hours this past weekend. With other guys on bikes with suspension. No problem at all. Granted, they were not XC racers but still. I don't worry as much about geometry as long as the general fit is good. Handling is a matter of getting used to the machine and appropriate tires (again, as long as you're generally on the right size frame). Just watch the Road Bike Party videos. Those bikes handled just fine in very inappropriate conditions - as long as the riders knew what they were doing with them.

Hydro discs and a SRAM drivetrain... it's rather difficult to add disc bosses to a canti-frame ;)

The Kona is "for sale", but I wont loose any sleep if it stays in the quiver.

Ahhh! I sees your point now ;) You could always go with a "mullet" solution. Very nice carbon forks available with disc mounts...but in order to keep your brifters symmetrical you'd have to run mechanically actuated calipers. Anyway. My vote's still for steel as it's cheap and durable. I'm not advocating from the "compliance" perspective as I don't believe that bogus. It's. I've heard nothing but good things about Niners and know nothing about the Focus so in a choice between those two, I'd go NIner... But that's a very uninformed decision, haha. I'd say that you have enough info to make up your mind at this point!

For maximum long-term versatility, I think you're gonna want a frame that can fit wider tires. Much wider tires.

Not sure what your price range is, but have you looked at the Open U.P.?
It fits huge 2.1" (53mm) wide tires in 650B, or typical CX tires in 700C.
(And it has integrated bosses for top tube storage packs ... )

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I have a lot of gravel riding and racing experience, and have tried a few bikes with different setups. As mentioned earlier, a lot depends on the kind of terrain you are riding and your riding style/skill level.

I personally find there to be little use for any tread when riding gravel roads. The rougher and looser the conditions (and the speed you'll be travelling) should push you to larger volume tires. I use the aluminum disc version of the specialized crux, and I've found it to be a very good bike for gravel and mixed condition riding in my area.

For smoother condition races, I'll use 32mm slicks, a little rougher then the 38mm tires are used, and if it's really rough, then I'll use my 650b wheels with 42mm tires.

My favourite setup is actually the 650b wheels with 42mm tires. The ride height of the wheels are the same as a 700c wheel with 25mm tires. The handling is quick and nimble more like my road bike in this setup - and you get the bonus of the high volume.

As far as geometry goes, I prefer cx race geo - 425mm CS, 70bb drop, and a trail value in the 60-63mm range. I find bikes with slack angles feel sloppy in this format.

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My $.02: A cyclo-cross bike, 29er or 700 wheels with 35mm tubeless tires, Titanium frame to withstand the rough vibrations and crashes, disc brakes, compact crank, wide range cassette on the rear, bright headlight on the front to warn all the trucks coming for you LoL

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res, non verba

My Felt F5X on 35 Stans Ravens worked great for Almanzo

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

I'm super interested in the Tamland as a commuter/gravel/easy singletrack/light touring bike. It seems like it would check lots of boxes for me. But the local Raleigh dealer refuses to stock them and I'd have to buy sight unseen, never ridden. =\

Look at Salsa's Vaya. I've owned two of them, and it's my go-to bike for commuting and adventure riding. It's well-behaved, but quite nimble when fitted with supple tires and light wheels.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

But the local Raleigh dealer refuses to stock them and I'd have to buy sight unseen, never ridden.

That's unfortunate.

If my review is not helpful, then read up on a few others via Google search - there are a number of them.

I loved the bike and was reluctant to hand it back to Raleigh after the review. It sized and set up easy for me, and I was rolling in a matter of minutes.


Like other reviewers, I found it was "heavy", but at speed in loose gravel and washboard, you then suddenly start to like that extra bit of weight. I think the weight issue keeps coming up in reviews, because, like most, the bike that I had ridden the previous day was my 17 lbs road bike!


If you want one bike for gravel/light-trail/commuting/touring, this is the bike!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

This post nails it. There is a huge difference between unpaved farm road, and a logging road, yet both fit in the 'gravel' genre.

Along with the length of climbs, the grade and surface are factors. A hardtail 29er, maybe even with a rigid fork will work well on logging roads. The cross/road bike set ups frequently don't have low enough gearing for extended logging road climbing. Hydro discs are the best things since multiple gears.

OP, if you like challenging mixed surface rides, check out the Vicious Cycle Gran Fondo series in WA state.

I think you just described my 29er:

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

The 650b setup is of interest to me. I assume the trick is to run somewhat wide tires on a somewhat narrow rim? What sort of tires? I was thinking of the Schwalbe Super Moto X on maybe a 19mm (inner) rim. Let's say my riding split is 60/40 rough roads to gravel.

My tire of choice for 650b is the Compass Babyshoe Extra light. They are 42mm wide, and very high quality tire - supple and minimal tread. I set them up tubeless with ease - they gave that comforting "ping" sound at inflation, and one of them actually held air overnight without sealant. Note: these do not have a tubeless bead, but I would never run them over 40psi at my weight and with a tire with this much volume.

These tires are mounted on Stan's Crest 650b rims - 21mm internal. I'm sure 19mm is fine too. They really do ride fantastic and roll really well. Normal pressures for me when using them for mixed gravel and pavement would be around 30 to 35psi.

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nice bike !

For maximum long-term versatility, I think you're gonna want a frame that can fit wider tires. Much wider tires.

My thinking too. Schwalbe determined that even on gravel, fat and very low psi tires were fastest.

I certainly agree with this. The problem though has been a real lack of high quality wide tires that do not have tread. I'm far from a Jan Heine fan, but the Compass line of tires are excellent, and are the only tires (that I'm aware of) that are truly fat and fast.

That Open U.P. frame ticks almost all the boxes for me - the one exception, which is a pet-peeve of mine, is the slacker HTA in the smaller sizes, and NOT compensating with a higher rake fork to get a better trail value. Specialized figured this out on my 52cm Crux - not sure why other companies can't figure this out.

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The problem though has been a real lack of high quality wide tires that do not have tread.

I'm not up on MTB tires, but I bet these would be fast:

https://www.conti-online.com/...tb/speedking_en.html

I've got a Specialized AL Crux with Cantilevers that I built up from a frame set for cross. It handles a Bruce Gordon Rock N Road 43mm just fine. It makes for a nice mixed surface ride, but for rougher terrian or loaded up for bikepacking, I grab the Salsa Fargo with 2.3 wide tires.

If you aren't dead set on discs, look at Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross frame. I've got one of their road frames, and I am very pleased with it.

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Suffer Well.

Still overkill compared to Compass' tires. Something like SOMA's B-Line would be fine for mixed-terrain riding, but it's still small compared to the Hetre and Babyshoe Pass.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

These would only be faster on actual trails - way overkill for any gravel roads I've encountered.

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As many others have said, "it depends." I've ridden my Synapse on brutal stuff--like legit singletrack--with 28s. Not really fun, but a bike like that with good tires will certainly do the job on light gravel. For rougher stuff an "American" style CX bike with lower BB is good option. Tire clearance is a key consideration so the worst the terrain, the more you need. That's one more reason to also go with disk brakes. I built a Boardman CXR for gravel racing, with Stan's Grail wheels. Just put Nano 40s on it tubeless for race next weekend in Sierra Nevada Mountains.

This is the rig I used for much of the 2014 UltraCX series and gnarly terrain - Lynskey Monster CX.

http://www.gravelcyclist.com/...-monster-cross-bike/

For Roubaix type races - Colnago C50 CX.

http://www.gravelcyclist.com/...-dirty-40-race-bike/

For "regular" gravel type races - Calfee CX.

http://www.gravelcyclist.com/...-design-gravel-bike/

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JOM - Founder and Editor - http://GravelCyclist.com

Yeah, that's the problem I'm having... a couple of the rides I'd like to be able todo are 30/70 to 50/50 pave/unmaintained logging road or an out and back that's 10/90 pave/logging road.

Guess I'll take the CX bike out this weekend and try to decide if 40mm is enough tire since I can always run a 39/26 or 42/28 crank to get the gearing I need.

Building a rigid 27.5er that can use skinny 700c or fat 650bs is an option but even the tallest bikes I can find will end up with a stack of spacers and a short little stem.

Here's my Niner RLT gravel bike



(trying to trade for an Evo or R3 if anyone is interested btw)

How is your shifting on the FD? I ask because your MTB crankset's chainrings are spaced further from the frame than road rings would be, and you're using a road FD. So your FD has to travel further outboard than its designed for. Any issues with that? Also, what kind of BB shell does this frame have? Threaded 73mm, or something else?

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Zero issues, I am using the stock road type Di2 clamp mount. Chainrings are 42 / 28. That is an Ultegra Di2 10 speed derailleur in use.

While I installed the hydro brakes and appropriate Di2 shifters recently along with the 11 speed rear derailleur upgrade, I've been running Di2 on the bike for close to two years.

73mm shell, Hawk Racing bottom bracket.

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JOM - Founder and Editor - http://GravelCyclist.com

50/50 I'd go road bike unless the unpaved parts are really bad. Throw Panaracer's knobbed 28 (or 30?) on and let it rip.

Still overkill compared to Compass' tires.

Do you know of any rolling resistance tests on "gravel tires"?

Would be good info I think. The Conti tire may seem excessively robust, but in other models they roll better than pretty much anything else. The Compass tires are made by a company that isn't noted for low Crr, which makes me skeptical. They are also smaller.

I'm not aware of any rolling resistance tests that have been done on/for gravel tires.

Not all Panaracer-made tires are created equally. For example, the Ribmo rides differently than the Pasela, and the Compass-branded Extralight tires ride very differently than the Pasela and Ribmo. The Compass tires I've ridden are some of the best-riding tires I've found.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

To throw another model out there, anyone have opinions on the Diamondback Haanjo? The one I'm thinking of is the Trail version - Ultegra 11sp, Tektro HyRd calipers, Hed rims. At $1850, it seems like a pretty good deal. Aluminum, not carbon or ti, and the paint isn't as good as the RLT, but it looks like a solid value.

In the US the Haanjo Trail is available for $1700. I'm kicking myself for thinking about it too long and not grabbing it when it was $1350 from Competitive Cyclist.

If you qualify for a Promotive account, that particular model is available at a discount.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

The Norco Search is an interesting one to check out.

Niner also looks good and is available in carbon or Al for a little less bling.

Is there going to be much difference between Aluminum and Steel?

I think I'm going to end up with a Rove, I'm just not sure if it'll be steel one (and add S700 shifters) or strip down the AL and build it up with either Rival 22 or S700/Apex/X9 and some decent wheels.

Check http://www.gravelcyclist.com/ from local Aussie Gainesville funny dude Jayson.

I've always been partial to steel. I don't think it makes much of a difference to the ride but, IMO, it's a better material for bikes. If it fails, it does so graciously.

IME, steel provides a smoother ride, which can be a real asset on washboard surfaces.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

late to the party but going to up vote on the OPEN CYCLE U.P. One thing I don't think yet mentioned that caught my eye on the U.P. was that it has road race geometry for those of us that want a toy for playing in the dirt on "skinny" wheels without the super slack and upright geometry that normally comes with such bikes. I'm going with a U.P. when it comes out specifically for that reason and additional for all the other super cool features on it.

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36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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I recently got into the gravel game. Bought a Giant Revolt. I chose it because of the tire clearance. Lot of options including throwing on my 29er wheelset if I want to. It rides really well. I've been on some bad roads, especially with all the recent flooding and it doesn't beat me up like I thought it might. Very comfortable.

I got the lowest component model because I didn't want to spend a lot of money without knowing how much I'd enjoy it. I have to say it's a blast. Almost never see a vehicle. Get to explore places I would never normally see. Really get to work on handling skills.

I've already upgraded the wheelset and tires and saved three pounds in doing so. The stock wheels are heavy. Other than that I'm not crazy about the 7-speed setup just due to the gear gaps. Shifts very well and even has trim adjustment in the shifters, which to me is even more important than in a 10 or 11-speed. I'll pick up a used 105 or Ultegra at some point but I'm just going to continue to enjoy this new riding.

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Loud pawls save lives

I had ignored the Revolt because it was funny looking. Well, it looks a lot better in person, much better than the Rove. I ended up buying one today from my neighbourhood LBS. With the seat slammed forward, stem flipped and slammed... the fit is reasonable but it's definitely not a crit bike! For $100 more than the Rove, you get a carbon fork... I thought the world had decided aluminum was a poor fork material long ago.

The 44? 46cm? bars will take some getting used to but I see why everyone is spec'ing their bikes will flared bars. The Claris shifters feel like crap, I think its the feel of hoods versus the actual ability to transfer watts to motion that will drive me to switch to better kit.

My build will be S700 levers/brakes with X7 everything else and whatever wheels I can find cheaply. Now tires... 700x50s...

I wonder why Kona didn't just spec one of their steel forks instead.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything

It took forever, but finally...




S700 shifters. Apex FD. X9 RD. FSA 40/28 crank. XT 11-36 cassette. Baller KMC X10SL chain. 29x2.0 Ninelines _just_ fit, the extrusions rub on the fender bridge between the chain stays. All said and done, it was ~$2100CAD. Now I just need to buy some wheels that dont weigh 2500g!

Steel is real. Very small company. Serious steel bikes made in the USA. All they do is gravel right now.

http://rideendpoint.com/collections/frontpage

That looks outstanding! Really impressed with your build. I need to look into those cranks. Would be nice to have lower gears on some of the longer steep climbs where the rear wheel spins if I stand.

I got a good deal on 10-speed shifters and cassette, just haven't had a chance to install. Would like to upgrade the brakes at some point but the stock ones will do for now. The Small Block 8 tires have worked great so far. Plenty wide for me. All in all I really love riding gravel. I rarely see a vehicle.

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Loud pawls save lives

Nice build. So that is a giant?

Can you post photo(s) showing the clearance in the areas where you have a tight fit with those 2.0 tires?

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Yeah, it's a Giant Revolt. Basic bike was $1000 and another $1000 for a decent drivetrain.

Took it out for a 90 minute spin today, found it a little twitchy to start but it climbs well. A buddy on Kona Hei Hei easily out descended me over fast (over 20mph) rough stuff though but there there wasn't much of a difference at lower speeds.

Here's the tire clearance, not as tight after a ride with reasonable air pressure.. at max psi theres maybe 2mm of clearance in that last picture.

Cool bike, but clearance does look snug in the back.

Did you also happen to consider a trek 920?

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It might not work for everyone, but I'm completely sold on SRAM's 1x drivetrain for my gravel riding.

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Mark Chandler, Editor In Chief
GRAVELBIKE.com | ride everything