My relatively unscientific n=1 experience was my aero lid netted me 0.5 mph increase in speed over my normal helmet. If I were racing for a paycheck I would not leave that inexpensive speed on the table. YMMV.

---

"It never gets easier, you just go faster."
-Greg LeMond

Read: http://triathlon.competitor.com/...ro-helmet-test_63574

Crowie is a good example of a top pro who preferred standard helmets....until he realized they were costing him race wins.

Bottom line is: get an aero helmet.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

ive done Louisville twice and several halfs where it was in the 90s, never noticed any different with an aero helmet

If you can't make up your mind you could always go in between with an aero-road helmet such as the Specialized Evade

---

"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

I wanna tack on here...aero is the way to go for sure.
Nice article link posted above too.
But - how do us amateurs w/o wind tunnel access find the fastest aero helmet?
Heck, I can't go out & purchase 3 kids and run time trials over & over wearing each. Not practical!

If anyone believes they'll get to hot in an aero helmet, I recommend they try:

LG P09 with the vent open
RP Wingspan with the vent open

Both of those helmets most likely have better ventilation than the typical road helmet.

Not convinced? Use the LG course aero road helmet. Coolest helmet on the market.

What is your budget? You can easily find a discounted Giro A2 from a season or 2 ago. The Aero Camp last year observed that any one of several (or maybe a few) helmets worked best for each person, but the A2 was almost always second best. So, for the money, the A2 is pretty smart. You also fit a good road helmet into your budget, since, much like the A2, you can often find older models discounted online.

If you're worried about ventilation, what you might want to avoid is an aero helmet with a visor and no ventilation. Having air on your face helps a lot.

In many cases pros seem to be uninformed, or oblivious to the details that matter. I would look at what the top age groupers are doing. For example, many age groupers were wearing sleeved aero suits in Kona 2013, and very few pros were. In 2014 there were a lot of pros with sleeved suits. I have no idea why a lot of pros don't pay attention to that stuff, maybe they are too busy training and stuff

---

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

I think, for a lot of pros, sponsorship limits what they can and can't use. Whether a clothing sponsor, for instance, makes a sleeved suit, or if the suit they do make isn't perhaps fast because of fit ( or it's just slow in general), a pro is sometimes forced to choose what they know is a slower option.

Last year I posted about some pros finding the fastest helmet for them, and then selling the real estate for advertising to the highest bidder. Smart, and usually worth more money than a helmet sponsor anyway.

Other times, it's just about poor choices. As an example, virtually every woman, be they pro or amateur, will refuse to wear longer length shorts even though we show them it's faster. Why? They don't like the look in them.

Then, of course, you have those who simply haven't educated themselves, though I think there are fewer and fewer every year.

---

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Bun huggers for the Win!

I don't think there are fewer and fewer every year. I just read something that Jodi Swallow didn't learn about salt until 2013. How many years had she been doing the sport - you wouldn't happen to come across it? Bottom line, there are too many pros that think it is all about the swimming, biking, and running and not worry about the details that add up like pennies in a penny jar. I would agree that pros who have been in the sport continue to advance their knowledge, but there seems to be a newbie to replace them every year. I myself use fellow pros as a reference, but keeping sponsorship in mind - some of the ones I watch include or included Lieto, Rapp, Tollakson, Kienle. When something they do doesn't jive with common knowledge or what I think it common knowledge I ask them about it.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

A lot of people assume it could hurt them via core temperature/heat.

There isn't much in the way of public data sufficient to convince people that this won't happen.

Intuition is stronger than data in people's minds.

So, while there is a nice study that shows core temp and performance aren't significantly affected by aero helmets in 100 degree temps in a 12k TT

People will say "well in a longer event it will be a problem!"

And they might hear that a famous pro tested it on a long ride outdoors and didn't find a difference in core temp, people will say things like "well it does for ME, everyone is individual"

Because, yeah, you put out more heat than a pro male triathlete or domestic pro cyclist? =)

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I can feel a little heat difference with an aero helmet. I just tilt head down and pour water into the helmet and onto my head to make up for it. Works fine.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

Well

chrissie and daniella ryff both use normal helmet, a recomendation from sutton

He said he prefer to keep the body fresh, especially due to the hot conditions in kona

Jim,

I know we've chatted about this some and I'm looking forward to picking back up the discussion when we test those pros in a few weeks.

For the women I think it's a bit tougher. There just aren't as many proven women's aero clothing options out there.

For the guys there are almost too many options, even though a lot of them are crap. But for chicks it's still thin.

I'd really love for one or two companies to come out with something that blows other choices for women out of the water.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Ryf used an aero helmet at Challenge Dubai this year

Mindgames.

If you think you will be hotter, then your performance will suffer.
Easy as that.

Rest deleted,
as people will believe what they want to believe without actually having data (see above).

Because Jim, we want to look good. If you can design a Fashion meets Function kit, you've hit the jackpot

---

leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

Links to older ones? What kind of price are you thinking?

I'd say there is quite a bit of evidence that this is not true.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Based on head position, back curve, etc. you can eyeball windtunnel which helmets are likely to work best for you (no way to be sure w/o tunnel testing). There are also helmets that tend to consistently test well for a wide range of riders. For example, the Giro A2 is an older design, but tends to test well for lots of riders (the LG P09 does as well) . It's rarely the top helmet, but regularly in people's top3.
Some helmets (ex. the Spiuk Kronos) are great for a few people (the head-up/flat back crowd), and test poorly on everyone else.

For long tail helmets, make sure to get one where the tail sits well against your back. Less of an issue (or a non-issue) for mid and short tail helmets.

If you post a pic of your aero position the ST peanut gallery will gladly chime in on what helmets might work best, and provide a free critique of room's interior design.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Ryf's poor aero choices on the bike probably cost her the win at Kona.

Road helmet, loose top w/wrinkles, shallow rear wheel.


Chrissie had such a big engine, she could make poor aero choices and win anyway.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

The more I test the more I find out this isn't true.

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Because he says, and I qoute, "It cooks their brain." Sure he has absolutely no data to back this up and the few studies that looked into it, as jackmott described, say they will not. Sure, maybe for some people or maybe even somewhere like Kona that is an issue, but why does he still believe that when all evidence points to contrary? I mean just look at who beat Ryff and the mens podium. Where those people's brains cooked? Of course this is coming from the man that says that woman should not ride disk wheels, because of some hogwash that they beat the rider up to much, apparently even when they are Hed disks that are spoked wheels with a cover! Why would they beat you up more?

Sutton is apparently good at some things, equipment selection is not one of those things.

The more your brain cooks, the less you think, the faster you go.

Take that Sutto. I can fight Broscience with Broscience

---

____________________________________

Are you ready to do an Ultraman? | How I calculate Ironman race fueling | Strength Training for Athletes |

Reminds me of what someone once said about Emil Zatopek. "He does everything wrong but win".

Hahaha.
Back then, you could do that with enough talent!

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Personal preference, but I prefer the look of longer legs on the shorts. On the bike, it just looks "right".

But at least we're moving in the right direction. Far less girls racing Kona in shorts and bra this year, which I think sets a good example for the general population.

---

ZONE3 - We Last Longer

Many pros are also extremely arrogant when it comes to their abilities... not saying they're arrogant from a personality standpoint just arrogant when it comes to their sense of what they can and cannot do athletically.

The Sutton coached athletes just play follow the leader and carry on like mindless drones when it comes to equipment choices. Shame on them. Chrissie Wellington has already been brought up. She won every IM race she started on pure talent. She made poor equipment choices, or at least poor equipment choices were made for her. Her bike sucked, her helmet sucked, and she didn't use a power meter (we can debate that endlessly but I think it's a fabulous race tool). If she would've continued racing she would have eventually lost at Kona by a minute (probably to Miranda Carfrae) and realized her bike and helmet choices cost her the win. She would've changed things up and picked up a better bike, worn an aero helmet, and probably comeback to win the following year. See Craig Alexander. He was given a bike equipment lesson in 2010, dropped that piece of shit Orbea, donned an aero lid, and voila... wins in 2011. Then he suddenly got old overnight and hasn't been remotely competitive at Kona since. ;-)

I agree with Rob about pros mimicking what top AG'ers are doing when it comes to equipment choices. Many pros spend a lot of OCD time regarding equipment choices and setup (see Rapp) and are extracting every iota out of both body and machine. I know there's a give and take with equipment sponsors but a lot of pros have probably never been within 250 miles of a wind tunnel, let alone inside one. I think that's absurd when your livelihood depends on it. Equipment choices matter... a lot.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Apparently you could still do it at least up to 2011 in triathlon.

But of course Zatopek didn't do everything wrong. He didn't train wrong and he didn't run wrong. The only thing that was "wrong" about him was the way he held his head and the tortured expression on his face. If you ever take the time to watch some hiqh quality video of him and ignore his look of agony, you can see his running form is every bit as good as smooth as that of his competitors. But people tend to focus on the minor details and blow up their importance beyond what they deserve. Kind of like what people are doing in this thread.

nah, I don't know of anyone who did everything wrong. People gave chrissie a lot of crap for using shallow wheels and a road helmet. But she was also on a cervelo, in a decent position compared to most women, and those shallow wheels were still aero HED wheels.

Not bad!


Well, he might have been training wrong. We have to clone him and train him differently and find out.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Ermmm, Cannondale Slice from about mid-2009 wasn't it?

That wasn't a terrible frame either.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

In fairness with her aerobic engine she could have ridden this and still won races.

Not quite, but a caad 10 would have worked most years.
Gatorskins and Mirinda would have run her down some years.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

As much as you've tested now, do you have general recommendations you give athletes that can't make it to aerocamp (besides save for next year)? I believe in the past, you've said the A2 improves most people, so go with the odds. Is that still true?

JM, for any given distance I will be wearing it for 25% - 30% longer than those pros and since I'm carrying at least 10kg/22lbs more than them, it is quite likely I'm generating at least as much, if not more heat.

That said, I overcame my reluctance and bought a Rudy Project Wingspan a few years ago, and can attest that it has great ventilation with the vent open, or even with the mesh. I noticed a huge increase in discomfort with the vent fully closed though.

To the OP, get an aero helmet with acknowledged ventilation characteristics, and if you need to, shave or cut your hair short.

A 300 watt pro male will be producing about 700 watts of waste heat. A 250 watt age grouper male only around 580 watts of waste heat. A 200 watt age grouper only ~450 watts of waste heat.

Of course the pros will have a bit more wind since they are moving faster.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

You know what? We really don't. Because he won. Not just a little. A lot. 4 Olympic Gold Medals. 3 European Championships. World records at distances from 5000 to 30000. Still the only man ever to win the 5000, 10000 and marathon in a single Olympics. That marathon was the first marathon he'd ever entered and he not only won it, he set the Olympic record.

That is not someone "training wrong". He wasn't some genetic freak. He just trained right. He stomped everyone.

I know it's fun to suppose that what if he'd done this or what if he'd done that, how many seconds faster MIGHT he have run. I guess that's sort of the purpose of these threads. But at some level of dominance, it's time to just shut up and respect the result or you just sound silly. I think we're past that point with Wellington (and Zatopek).

Wondering if he trained optimally is not a sign of disrespect. It is just curiosity. There is no amount of dominance where it is somehow not ok to wonder that. Especially not in the 1950s, or women's triathlon today.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Fair point, and though I can't argue, as I don't have data, are those absolute figures? I've often wondered about the relative output of a MOP AGer over 11- 12 hours of effort vs the pros & FOP AGer in 8 - 9 hours

Human body is about 30% efficient


So if you make X watts, total energy production is X/.3 subtract the energy that went to the pedals and the rest of waste heat.

This same phenomenon makes it really hard for talented men to train indoors. Need a big fan and plenty of airflow into and out of the room. or a huge room.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

On the topic of head temperature, I just read an interesting article (can't find it now) saying the old "you lose 90% of your heat through your head" theory is crap. You lose body head from, well, your entire body. A helmet with poor ventilation may mean your noggin gets hotter but don't forget about the 20mph +/- wind that will be helping cool your body during the ride. Plus, your head getting warmer isn't necessarily a bad thing.

If you even get close to heat exhaustion/heat stroke it is not the fault of the helmet. I spent 10 years in the military and can tell you that not overheating has 100% to do with your hydration, not what you're wearing. I've walked mile after mile in 120 degree heat, carrying 50+ pounds, dressed from head to toe, blah, blah, blah and never came close to heat exhaustion. Any triathlete should have their hydration plan in check prior to race day and know what they need and when they need it.

---

The best pace is a suicide pace, and today is a good day to die. -Steve Prefontaine

Pretty sure the answer is: they think they are fast enough without one to place where they want to place. Sometimes that's true. For some pros it might be true most of the time. But when races are lost by seconds or a minute or two? Always wear an aero helmet!

No disrespect in "non-optimally". But then again that's not even in the same league as "wrong". Nobody has ever trained optimally in the history of athletics.

Speculation is great. It's why I read these threads. I get the math of cycling. But the math people here occasionally get so caught up in the analyticcyling aspect of it that they seem think Kona is nothing but a time trial in a lab wind-tunnel. They seem forget the "race" part (not to mention the other two disciplines). So you get these silly posts where somebody thinks they can rewrite a Kona result because of a few grams of drag from this helmet or that frame.

Well Ryf really might have been able to aeroweenie her way in there. We will never know until we rewind time and see how much faster Mirinda could have run!

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Since everybody here is focusing on aero & heat, I'd like to bring up something different:

1) Practicality
If you like to do cool-down or pre-race rides, you need to bring an extra helmet, because aero-helmet outside race is inexceptable.

2) Comfort in all-day crosswinds. When its very windy from one side for prolonged times (i.e. an island ironman riding mostly on the same side of the island in the same direction for a while), the constant wind-pressure on that aero-tail can make your neck pretty stiff.

For both those reasons I'm in the process of getting an aero road helmet as a replacement for my old road helmet and an alternative for my pure aero helmet

---

if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

Well, talent and extremely effective maniacal training.


Neither the P2C nor Slice "suck." They may not have been optimal. But they don't "suck." Put Tony Martin or Cancellara on either of those, they're still going to be top-5 TTers.


Sacrilege!


It's relatively easy to reason about who's getting "every iota" out of machine. But very difficult to to gauge who's getting the most out of their body. Rapp's performances have seemed...inconsistent...over the past few years. Relative to the trajectory it looked like his career was taking. (crash notwithstanding). Of course it's much easier to be consistent when your fitness (whether from talent or training) is so much better than everyone else's that you have the reserves to compensate for bad days or some bad choices.

Let me rephrase that same sentence "Put Tony Martin or Cancellara on either of those, there a good chance they won't be on the podium."

Equipment isn't everything, but it's not inconsequential. Lots of victories can be attributed to better equipment choices.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

well, it might swap which of them wins, anyway.

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

'Well, he might have been training wrong. We have to clone him and train him differently and find out.[/quote]'

My father used to run with Zatopek when he was young. It's widely accepted that in a very unscientific era of athletics Zatopek brought into vogue concepts like interval and resistance training (although in a very crude form 'I'm going to run fast between every second power pole' 'I'm going to run my long run in army boots').

I love hearing stories about my father's training sessions. It was a time and place where sport was very different (post training recovery meal? Crack a raw egg into a beer!)

I've beaten every one of my father's PRs over 3km, but given he could run 3:45 for 1500m on cinders I reckon some of his training worked.

I think it was Damon Rinard who put forth this little scenario about that. "Before they went pro, they get on a cheap old bike, they win. They get a little bit nicer bike, they still win. A local shop loans them a new bike, they win. They switch bikes a year later, they still win. They have a falling out with a shop, ride a different brand from a different shop, they still win. They have another falling out, bring out their old(er) cheap bike, they still win. They only stopped winning when they were acknowledged as the world's best. So no matter what numbers you put in front of them, they don't believe that equipment matters all that much. ". When you look at it through that lens, indifference to equipment makes sense.

clap clap.

You sure seem to have your way with the ladies....

Great testo-post otherwise..

Or, maybe, Brett knows his athletes very well. He didn't make these equipment choices for all his athletes (see Caroline in Kona as an example), or the same choices for all of their races.

I'm all in for the Giro A2. Picked one up for $75 from Competitive Cyclist. Benefits over my road helmet (which I've stopped wearing).

Quieter - if I had known this I would have gotten one sooner. Less air turbulence around the ears allows me to hear traffic better and enjoy the ride.

Lighter - the other day, I forgot that I already had it on and was looking in the trunk for it.

No pointy aero look - doesn't have the sharp point that looks like it could impale someone if there was a crash. Plus, I don't have the speed for pointy aero so I don't want to create the impression that I'm that fast.

---

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Glad I received so many replies to my initial post cheers guys

Think I'm gonna buy the rudy wing57

I've spoken with someone who tests a lot of helmets and he told me to stay away from the Rudy Wing 57 as it rarely tests well for anyone.

Caroline Steffan said she did not like aero helmets because of the sound of the wind makes. I don't think she has had a solid helmet sponsor over the years so you think she would have tried several out to see which one sounded best.

For the most part I think it is either coaching suggestions or sponsorships. If you are not wearing one then it is your own fault if you lose by a small margin.

Huh? I'm sorry but you're insinuating my post was somehow misogynistic??? Sutton coached male athletes as well who did whatever they were told. Chrissie is just the obvious star pupil and shining example about how pure talent trumped her less than ideal equipment choices.

Feel free to cherry pick whatever else fits your crazy agenda.

---

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I think you're referring to the Air Attack aero road helmet, not the Advantage 2.

Per Giro, the Air Attack tests midway between their road helmets and their Selector tailed aero helmet.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

My mistake. You are right as I have the Air Attack.

---

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

I think the biggest example that you can take from Chrissie is that she was very consistent in her approach and the results followed from that.

I made two significant deviations in late 2012/2013 that, in retrospect (duh), were not smart.

The first was thinking that I needed to drastically change my approach to swimming after Kona 2012. Rather than taking the view that it was over-racing (Leadman 3 weeks prior & IMNYC 9 weeks prior) that took away my front end speed, I decided I *needed* to become a better swimmer. I ended up doing what Sutton, ironically, talks about seeing numerous times. Guys become 1min faster in the water and 10min slower on the bike+run. Having now shifted my focus back to the way I used to train, i really wish I had invested that time in running instead of swimming, since there is a pretty clear correlation between volume:speed with running that doesn't exist in swimming.

The second is that I had always been judicious about how many races - especially long races - I did, never doing more than 2 in a 365 day period. Then, for all kinds of reasons some of which were dumb and some of which weren't, I did 5 eight+ hour races in 10 months between 2012 and 2013.

Now, granted, this isn't really that germane to the topic at hand, but I think what is noteworthy about Chrissie is that she was very good at "keeping the faith." Of course, she also won basically every race she ever did, which makes it a lot easier to have faith. But with Kona '12 really being my only really bad race in the prior two+ years, I look back and wonder "what the heck was I thinking?"

To loop this back to the particular topic at hand, I think it's often a wise decision to not mess with success. So, if you have athletes who win races - especially female athletes, where there seems to be a bigger spread on the bike, whether by tactic or physiology or both - without an aero helmet, I think it isn't necessarily "dumb" that they race without an aero helmet. If they are getting slaughtered on the bike, then sure, they might want to think about it. But for some of them, they are posting the fastest bike splits in spite of this.

---

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

i was under the impression that the rudy 57 always tests better than the wingspan did, and may not be the fastest for some, but never the slowest either. In other words, its a 'decent' lid. I think it tested quite well for one of the guys at the first aerocamp from memory

Perhaps I misheard but I was told the opposite of that.

Hope not coz I bloody got one lol. Mind you I only do sprints or team leg the cycle of 70.3's for fun these days

Any idea where we could find one of these 'easily'?