Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season

Feb 26, 15 11:10

Post #1 of 30 Views: 3895

Thinking of choosing between:
Attack/Attack
Attack/Force
Bontrager R4 aeros
Specialized turbo cotton.

November Rail 52 wheels if it matters. Front will also be used for TTs (perhaps on a deeper wheel if my team sponsorship works out though).

I can get the attackx2 or attack/force on ebay for less than $100. I already have the R4 aeros and they are a couple years old but not used.

Team is sponsored by Maxxis so I think I can still get cheap tires that way, but I've never seen them talked about with much regard.

The Specialized Turbo Cottons intrigue me, but the price does not! ($80 each from what I can find).
I'm pretty familiar with all the rolling resistance and somewhat of the aero data, but I'm wondering if anyone has input on racing 22/22 sized tires for mass start events.

Last year my best races were from breakaways. Cat-ing up means I will probably turn into pack fodder though.

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Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 11:24

Post #2 of 30 Views: 3880

I usually race on the GP 4000S. Probably similar to the Attack/Force but available in more sizes. The Specialized and new Zipp tires are supposed to be pretty low rolling resistance too.

Maxxis makes a great training tire: The Re-fuse. Similar flat resistance and life to the Gatorskin but doesn't feel nearly as dead. I don't know if they make any good race tires though.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 11:29

Post #3 of 30 Views: 3872

I would go with Force/Force or Turbo Cotton

Some recent back of envelope calculations suggest that even up front, wider might be more faster than narrow, even with the aero penalty.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 11:34

Post #4 of 30 Views: 3861

Wow, not what I expected to hear. Thanks for the info.

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Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 11:36

Post #5 of 30 Views: 3858

If you're going to go with clinchers I'd suggest one that's not on your list, and certainly one of my favorites. The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX, or any of the other variants, provide great feel and excellent cornering. I won't race any other tire.

They are prone to early wear I've found, but worth it.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 11:37

Post #6 of 30 Views: 3857

jsiege11 wrote:

Wow, not what I expected to hear. Thanks for the info.

Some recent envelope maths has led me to suspect wider might be better even up front.

The Force and Turbo Cotton have veeerrrry good crr. Force might be a bit more durable.

4000S might be a cheaper overall solution since they will last longer. Just not quite as fast.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 11:41

Post #7 of 30 Views: 3851

23 4000s? That's what I rode last year. From reading here it sounded like I was leaving a little speed on the table hence switching. I don't race a ton, my 4000s aren't worn out quite yet, so I'm not worried about a little worse wear.

Thanks again

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Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [durk onion] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 13:11

Post #8 of 30 Views: 3810

Re-Fuse are great training tires, heavy and flat proof. I pulled a valve core 3x before I I got flat spots and changed tires.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 13:15

Post #9 of 30 Views: 3803

jsiege11 wrote:

23 4000s? That's what I rode last year. From reading here it sounded like I was leaving a little speed on the table hence switching. I don't race a ton, my 4000s aren't worn out quite yet, so I'm not worried about a little worse wear.

Thanks again

Yep, just throwing that out there. A 23mm 4000S might last 0.5 to 1 race seasons depending on how often and long your races are.

A Turbo Cotton maybe only .25 to .5

I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass but you get the idea =)

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 16:34

Post #10 of 30 Views: 3754

Does this recommendation change with narrow rims?

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 17:08

Post #11 of 30 Views: 3741

kjmcawesome wrote:

Does this recommendation change with narrow rims?

definitely maybe

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 17:18

Post #12 of 30 Views: 3729

jackmott wrote:

jsiege11 wrote:

Wow, not what I expected to hear. Thanks for the info.

Some recent envelope maths has led me to suspect wider might be better even up front.

The Force and Turbo Cotton have veeerrrry good crr. Force might be a bit more durable.

4000S might be a cheaper overall solution since they will last longer. Just not quite as fast.

Any thoughts on the 25mm GP4000s vs GP Force?

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 17:55

Post #13 of 30 Views: 3704

I am trying out the zipp tangente speed clinchers and so far really like them. Good price and match well with wide rims. They can be had for around $55 or so.

I am coming off conti attack front and rear. I had no issues with that setup, but suspect they might not have the best grip.

Will be checking out the turbo cotton tires when the black sidewall version becomes available.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 19:01

Post #14 of 30 Views: 3677

I'm considering going to an Attack front and a 25mm GP4000s on the rear. Is there any reason I don't hear that combination come up in conversations like this?

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [RokeSmoke] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 19:02

Post #15 of 30 Views: 3672

RokeSmoke wrote:

I'm considering going to an Attack front and a 25mm GP4000s on the rear. Is there any reason I don't hear that combination come up in conversations like this?

for crits?
because 22mm tires for crits, while not crazy is not really useful, probably.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [Nick B] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 19:03

Post #16 of 30 Views: 3670

Force is probably faster than 25c 4000S

The Zipp speeds may be a good option too. The really fast ones have no puncture belt though I believe, so, may be very delicate.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 20:07

Post #17 of 30 Views: 3641

If lots of crits in your plan, consider which ones you like for grip in addition to the other factors.

I think your gp4000s are fine and tests show them as fast, otherwise I defer to the crr experts on absolute fastest. I generally ride and race GPs and the 25s roll well but I find the 23s are wide enough on my HEDs. I essentially use 25s for training, 23s for the race wheels.

j

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [HOWSER] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 20:41

Post #18 of 30 Views: 3625

HOWSER wrote:

If you're going to go with clinchers I'd suggest one that's not on your list, and certainly one of my favorites. The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX, or any of the other variants, provide great feel and excellent cornering. I won't race any other tire.

They are prone to early wear I've found, but worth it.

Certainly the best "feeling" tire. Super smooth and responsive. The Crr is pretty good as well. Aero is on the poor side, but they are certainly my favorite tire for crit riding. I have been using the 4000s for the last uear or so. It is a nice tire, but it feels kinda dead.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 26, 15 23:31

Post #19 of 30 Views: 3594

Force and Attack roll nicely but square off quickly then become much more likely to puncture. Used that combo for a season. The force is pretty wide and rubbed on my S2 frame when going all out. Doubt you'd get a season out of them.
Conti GP4000s 23mms work well on my Campy Bullet rims. Blend very nicely with the rim, roll well and last a bit longer.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 5:07

Post #20 of 30 Views: 3526

for clinchers a 25 is a nice option for an all around race tire, you can air them down a bit for bumpy crit courses and the larger section will help you avoid flats when you hit holes. On some city center crit course in the rain, you don't want to run a narrow tire.

For road racing the tubulars are nice because you can stay in the group riding on the rim until the car comes up and they are less prone to the pinch flats

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 5:09

Post #21 of 30 Views: 3525

grumpier.mike wrote:

HOWSER wrote:

If you're going to go with clinchers I'd suggest one that's not on your list, and certainly one of my favorites. The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX, or any of the other variants, provide great feel and excellent cornering. I won't race any other tire.

They are prone to early wear I've found, but worth it.

Certainly the best "feeling" tire. Super smooth and responsive. The Crr is pretty good as well. Aero is on the poor side, but they are certainly my favorite tire for crit riding. I have been using the 4000s for the last uear or so. It is a nice tire, but it feels kinda dead.

yeah, it didn't make my list because of the bad aero data I've seen.

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Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 16:24

Post #22 of 30 Views: 3462

I have been a longtime Open Corsa + latex fan. This year I will be giving the Schwalbe One Tubeless a try for crits and RR. My Propel came with tubeless capable wheels and I am curious. Cautiously optimistic so far. Do not 'feel' as fast as the Corsas FWIW.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 16:44

Post #23 of 30 Views: 3449

jsiege11 wrote:

grumpier.mike wrote:

HOWSER wrote:

If you're going to go with clinchers I'd suggest one that's not on your list, and certainly one of my favorites. The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX, or any of the other variants, provide great feel and excellent cornering. I won't race any other tire.

They are prone to early wear I've found, but worth it.

Certainly the best "feeling" tire. Super smooth and responsive. The Crr is pretty good as well. Aero is on the poor side, but they are certainly my favorite tire for crit riding. I have been using the 4000s for the last uear or so. It is a nice tire, but it feels kinda dead.

yeah, it didn't make my list because of the bad aero data I've seen.

The high average speed of a crit and closed coarse probably keeps the average yaw angle down in that <5 degree range, so for crits I don't think it is as big a deal as a long road race. I find the increased cornering confidence beneficial and if you are moving up a race category you will probably find that the speed of crits will be the biggest adjustment.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 16:51

Post #24 of 30 Views: 3441

I've generally raced GP400s (haven't tried the IIs) yet. They roll well and are pretty resilient so no real worries about torn up roads (streets around here in Boston aren't great...). I recently put some Vittoria Open Corsa SCs on a new bike and have to say that they feel better than the GPs. My impression is that they roll better and I feel more connected with the road (for better or worse). The casing cuts easily and is very supple and prone to eating up glass (like most Vittorias), but I have yet to get a flat on them from such issues.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 17:52

Post #25 of 30 Views: 3425

I agree with the wider is better crowd. I'm pining for a set of the new Schwalbe One 26mm tubulars and would love to get some of the new Specialized/FMB 26mm tires if they weren't branded.

-SD

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 19:16

Post #26 of 30 Views: 648

SuperDave wrote:

I agree with the wider is better crowd. I'm pining for a set of the new Schwalbe One 26mm tubulars and would love to get some of the new Specialized/FMB 26mm tires if they weren't branded.

Magic marker.

And make that bike an F-Works frame while you're at it.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 19:32

Post #27 of 30 Views: 645

Ok. Are you saying that FMB is making the new Speciallized tires? That would make the 80$ price tag a deal, if there is such a thing.

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 19:35

Post #28 of 30 Views: 645

Specialized turbo cotton everything is right about them

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]

Feb 27, 15 20:30

Post #29 of 30 Views: 636

FMB makes some of the casings for the teams and a very limited number of those tires will be offered to consumers allegedly.

SD

Re: Help Pick my RR/Crit Tires for this season [jsiege11] [ In reply to ]

Feb 28, 15 3:11

Post #30 of 30 Views: 609

jsiege11 wrote:

Thinking of choosing between:

Team is sponsored by Maxxis so I think I can still get cheap tires that way, but I've never seen them talked about

Last year my best races were from breakaways. Cat-ing up means I will probably turn into pack fodder though.

Today I was at the LBS getting some Schwalbe One for the coming season. Formerbeuro pro rider owner suggested the Maxxis Columbier as a 25C 200 gram race tyre that he uses and claims is as good or better than any clincher that he's used.
As you're sponsored by maxxis, why not give their product a go.

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