official press release: http://endurancesportswire.com/...-narrow-single-ring/

But Shimano only? that doesn't even allow for an aero spider.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

hoping to get mine set up in the next week or so... excited to see how it all works out.

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Not going to lie, I'm curious to test it out.

God I hope they make it in 130 pattern..... Bye bye to my front derailleur

These are the guys sponsoring Weiss... I'll wait for a reputable company to bring something to the market.

Something tells me that Sram will be all over this, with their push for 1x11 mtb being so successful. I'm looking forward to seeing the wireless TT shifter...

And, a single front chainring will be good for those Di2 single button TT shifters.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

looking forward to trying this out(and trying to determine watts lost to chain efficiency) alas, it has not arrive d yet

Is there only me that doesn't really see the benefit of this?
Maybe it's because I mainly compete on rolling/hilly courses, but why remove the extra gearing option?

I'll give single chainrings a go if/when we get either 13/14 speed cassettes or 10t cassette rings, so that I can replicate my current gearing range without sacrificing shift smoothness.

more importantly, with sequential shifting on its way, having the extra gears will most likely win out (in road and mountain biking)

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Because there is a non trivial aerodynamic gain to be had when you remove the front derailleur.

Also a bit of cost savings if you built up a bike like this from the start.

And of course a very marginal weight savings.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
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I'm with you on that. You lose 10 watts from cross chaining to the big cog in the rear. This loss of drive train efficiency was brought up a few months back in a different thread.

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A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

https://www.sram.com/...cx1-x-sync-chainring

They just need to make "normal" sizes available

The 52 on the Venge lunch ride is that ring specific to specialized. Forgot to ask the LBS if they can order it as a replacement part.

Tempted to do a single ring for PR

Can you point me to that data?
I've heard of a couple people testing this, and some seeing more loss than others, but haven't heard of anything like 10 watts before.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
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Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I read it on a thread on this forum not long ago.

I'll see if I can find the relevant thread.

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A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

All good points, and I hadn't considered the cost aspect.
If I was a flatlander then it would be worth it for me, I'd likely throw a 52 on there and be done with it.
But here in Northern England we'll be on doubles for a while yet. We simply need too many gears for the current single chainring systems.

There is that, but you lose a lot more if you stop pedaling or have to slow down pedaling if you have issues getting into the big ring or it hangs up dropping down.. or drops off entirely and you have to stop to get the chain back on.

Plus possible aero gains would probably make more for more saved watts overall then 10 watts wasted for a few seconds.

Found it.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...%20chaining;#5360010

I am no expert but take from it what you will.

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A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

Interesting.
I wonder if that might just be more to do with the Kickr reading differently at higher vs lower speeds.

I did find this:
http://www.ihpva.org/...ve/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf

check page 7

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
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Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Straight 53/12 31.11mph 249w fast
Crossed 53/26 14.63mph 263w slow
Straight 39/23 11.94mph 251w slow
Crossed 39/11 24.97mph 261w fast

It would be nice if someone tried this with a computrainer as well.

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A false humanity is used to impose its opposite, by people whose cruelty is equalled only by their arrogance

I speculate that with cross chaining on a wide-narrow ring the losses will be increased as the wide tooth will tend to rub more against the side plates of the chain. Still waiting for efficiency data of narrow-wide chains relative to the standard.

Correct. It depends on how flat the terrain is and how often one's chain is in big cogs. I have heard from strong guys too many times that they are hardly ever in the small ring (wish I could say that myself). There are also several options typically available for surface treatment. Some are better than others (but more $$$). There will be a bit more power loss when chain is deeply crossed. It is a bit more severe than SRAM's 1X11 mountain bike system because the chainstay is a bit longer and ring a bit smaller on a mountain bike.

That said, the aero/cost/simplicity temptation of single ring is significant, especially when you are a stronger rider targeting a flatter race course. Nothing is ever perfect and it's all about trade-offs. Someone could just find this useful.

A well lubed new chain and a bit of break-in period make a difference too.

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Should be possible if someone compared Powertap Vs. crank-based meter. I believe jackmott just purchased a power2max...

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

It would have to be a non-linear effect on the Kickr then, since both high speed (53-12) and low speed (39-23) was efficient, but those in between were not. But I'm assuming speed was the same since wattage was the same, so the difference was actually cadence?

If the FD rubbed in the cross-chain tests that would explain a lot...

There are lots of people who already only use a single chainring (I'm one of them), but have found a front mech to be necessary to prevent the chain from occasionally coming off. It's just really annoying to have such a big chunk of material stuck on the bike for that reason alone, so for me, getting rid of that unnecessary clutter on the bike has become a point of principle, as much as anything else, and I'm looking to get a suitable wide/narrow ring made.

This was my spread of gear usage in a 10 mile TT last year. The only reason I need the larger sprockets is for the start and the turn. Even for a 50 mile TT on a course with a sustained climb, I spent very little time in any sprocket larger than 17T.

it looks like a rd issue there, maybe not lined up with larger cogs(set screw wrong maybe) maybe not though. seems strange a 12 would be "efficient" since it is getting to the point of being small enough to be sucking watts for fun

also, was this two different wheels? or why comparing a 23 to a 26?

I would think with a quarq, one would want to recalibrate the quarq slope before performing the test. ie set up to be slope for large ring only, since the slope really is not the same for both(at least the message qalvin spits out always lists the ring differences, which seems to be larger than I like, but cant recall what it is at the moment of if I am having an early geriatric moment

58t-11!?!? I'm going to go train now.

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Alex Arman

Strava

I would certainly agree that you're a perfect candidate for a single chainring system, and you're obviously a really strong TTer. However, I don't think you understand what I mean by a "hilly course".
This link is a fairly typical weekend ride. Ignore the power stuff as I was using a PowerCal and hadn't touched the FTP settings etc.
https://connect.garmin.com/...n/activity/645817465
Expand the elevation graph and view it as "elevation over distance" to get a more representative view.


The reason it's from May and not last week etc is that I moved house just after this (only a few miles away). I don't post rides that show my current starting point (my house).

I understand, and wasn't suggesting it's for everyone, just explaining what the appeal is for some people. I have a P2 training bike with a 50/34 chainset if I want to ride up 25% gradients, but every second counts when competing on the fast TT courses.

I've been running 1x10 on my MTB for the last 3 years and often wondered why this wasn't common on the road.

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Velosurance - bicycle insurance

When you mentioned a sustained climb that you did in your 58(?) chainring that made me perhaps think that you didn't really have many/any hills where you live, I wasn't trying to imply anything negative.
I accept that I'm biased against a single ring's utility due to where I ride, and I tried to cover that in my first post on this thread.

100% agree with your "every second counts" comment, if you don't need something then get rid of it.
"Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away"

I seldom use the small ring where I live in Madison WI, and we have some hills in the area. if I am planning on a ride that needs the SCR, I would take the road bike for that day(if I go with a single ring option on TT bike) however, even short TT courses around here where the downhill portion of the TT hits 50mph, I don't use the SCR going uphill the opposite direction of the out and back. I should do so, and have noted in some test runs much better power to cranks when doing so, ie 80 rpm is better than 60 rpm :) but there in lies the beauty of adding the SCR when needed, at least with DI2, it is a quick install(if flippin di2 works, see my thread on it being in the crapper and give advice)

just because you go single ring for some or most events, does not mean the other ring is unavailable for others as needed. this is not a "fixed" option

Forgive me, but I'm struggling to understand your post.
Are you in favour of single chainrings, or not?

I understand that a person can always just have two TT bikes, one with two chain rings and one with a single ring. I can't really afford to own and maintain two TT bikes though, so have to use an option that works every time.

I purchased one and when it arrives, will test for losses. likely will use wide narrow set up most of the time, except if there is an event I feel really needs a small chain ring(SCR), then will put the normal double back on the quarq. I see no need for the small ring in my daily training on TT bike. Daily training includes riding the IMMOO course every now and then.

I am in favor(theoretically) of the 1x11 option(or 1x10) and just changing out for specific events if needed/desired. of course this is going to vary by individual, and I would not recommend it to everyone. but there are some folks looking for every last partial second for whatever reason it may be of benefit to those folks.

there really is no reason to be for or against it anymore than being for or against compact/regular, clincher/tubular, etc it is all preference. posting you don't see the point is not worthwhile, unless you have specific data to show it sucks more power in the gears it will be used. it is just another tool to be used by those that can find benefit, nothing more. hopefully that is more clear.

I hope to find benefit, that will be my deciding factor. no benefit(as determined by me) no use(for me)

I know that people have success with a single-ring set up. I'm glad it works for you, your style, your location and terrain etc.

Here's a counter-point, take it for what it's worth to you.
Wide-narrow is not the second coming.
Here's why.


Everyone knows that wide-narrow chain rings still drops chains, right?
Even CX1, despite what they say, drops chains more often than most will admit.

You can easily argue that Wout Can Aert lost the CX World Championships because of a dropped chain. (I just saw the irony that it happened in front of the Shimano Sign)
Velonews Article


Road and Mountain Applications are very different. I have X01 on my Epic and its awesome. Never a dropped chain, ever.
However, Short Chain stays (increased chain angles), unsuspended rear ends and high tire pressures (high force impulse) mean that something that works great in MTB need signfican't tweekage for the road (and bolting a new chainring to a "traditional" road bike isn't tweekage).

Hell, Specialized is even making wheels with different offsets for improved chainline (SCS)

I questioned the need for a wide-narrow ring in another thread and the point that was made was that if you hit a pothole (or similar) the chain can and will drop.
It'll happen with a wide-narrow ring too. Maybe there's a reduction in occurrences, but how many seconds per Km do you need to save to make up for just once having to stop your bike and manually put the chain back on? Additionally. Dropped chains at high speeds can be dangerous.

You'll notice that as the CX season went on there seemed to be new products like this popping up.


In the beginning of the year Danny wasn't running a chain keeper, but by nationals he was.
Point Being: People look to CX1 for proof it works, but it's not there.
PS. There go your aerodynamic savings.


And lets be honest, the little stick that comes with your 11 speed SRAM FD or the pretty K-Edge that you buy really doesn't do anything except make it harder to get your chain un-stuck.


By all means, everyone should experiment. I fully embrace that.
I just caution that sometimes it is not worth trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist with a solution that has worse consequence (can I compare this to vaccines or is it too soon?)

But hey, if you can be 4th at the World Championships with a broken chain, who really needs to pedal?
Neko Mulally UCI DH World Champs 2014

FWIW- This post have half tongue in cheek and half serious.

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

I'm in favor. The money and time spent cabling/working with a front derailleur and second ring for how much the small ring actually gets used is not worth it. If you use an oval chainring you need a chain catcher, but I personally believe most people are great candidates for that tiny piece of insurance no matter what shape their chainrings are.


I haven't had a front derailleur on one of my mountain bikes in at least 8 years.


54 seems a hair steep for some of us mortals. A 52 chainring matched with the (11 speed) 11-40 XTR cassette (which fits a 10spd freehub) would be nearly identical range as a 52/36 matched to the current 11-28. For us 10 speeders a 52 chainring matched to an 11-36 rear would be nearly identical range as a 52/36 matched to an 11-25. Having smaller 'jumps' in between gears is nice for TT and a mtb cassette would definitely have more pronounced gaps. It's not very noticeable on a mt bike, even on a 10-42. Maybe it would just taking some getting used to on the road.

Avoiding all the is it better/ is it not better debate. From a bit of searching it appears all of you in the US can get narrow-wide rings for 110BCD in acceptable sizes.


Here when it's back in stock:
http://www.wolftoothcycling.com/products/110-bcd-cyclocross-chainrings


Maybe Here if they really do all even sizes:
http://www.warhawkindustries.com/chainrings/5-bolt-110mm-bcd-chainring.html

I'm rather interested in giving it a go, there'd be no chance I'd use it in training round here as most of my rides are spent grinding up climbs in the lowest gear. However, for mostly flat courses you could go single ring on the front and select a cassette ratio based on the cadence and power you want to hit with maybe a back up in case of wind. Much like you would do if riding a pursuit on the track where you set a schedule and gear the bike accordingly.


Iain

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Any idea where to get that single chain ring chain guide/catcher you showed in that photo ? It says prototype on it ?

It's a prototype K-Edge product. I would suspect it'll be launched prior to next CX season. Looks to be the best solution so far.

MRP currently offers the best alternative with high protection: http://www.mrpbike.com/1xguide/
For Clamp-able seat tubes Pauls offers this:http://www.paulcomp.com/chainkeeper.html
The K-Edge XL may work, but only prevents drops to the inside: http://www.acecosportgroup.com/...gle-xl-braze-on.html

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com

"This bolt-on mount adds a few grams of weight compared to a riveted mount, but as you've shown, lets you neatly run a single ring and leave off the derailleur and mount. FYI: that FD mount alone has more drag than the whole down tube.

Damon Rinard, Cervelo Senior Technologist"

http://www.tririg.com/...P2_Review&page=3

50t 5 bolt 110bcd please! I question the strength of the Wolf Tooth and really wish it had a aero profile... anyone have first hand experience?

if one is considering the falco WN ring for a quarq elsa, be aware that you will need to remove material from the ring to fit it. the inner lip of the ring needs to go for the battery compartment bump out.

Sorry to drag up an old topic but has anyone actually managed to buy one of these?

Iain

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I have one. Got it through a dealer. Installed it over the weekend but no ride time yet. Seems very high quality.

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-Mike

Vertex Fit Systems (http://www.vertexfitsystems.com) | Bikeworks (http://www.bikeworksma.com) | Russo Racing (http://www.r2tri.com)

I'd like to see Falco put a full 1x11 package together with their beam bike. e-shift buttons only to control the rear derailleur - all front derailleur parts completely removed.

The problem with doing it yourself is that shifters and brake levers are nearly as expensive when purchased alone compared to just buying them in pairs; however, if Falco leveraged the purchasing power of buying in bulk then some savings could be passed on to their customers.

Its time for Falco to show us their Proof of Concept!

Which dealer if you don't mind me asking?

Iain

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Old thread bump. Now that you have some time on it what do you think. I rode single-speed this weekend with FD still on. It was amazing - loved it.

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I'm still using single chainring, and really like it. Not the Falco one though. I've used 3 of them - Falco, Wolf Tooth, and SRAM. The Falco was really loud in the 3 lowest gears. It seemed to me like the chain line was off. He Wolf Tooth worked well - noise only in the smallest gear and nowhere near as loud as the Flaco. I have the SRAM on there now and it seems to be the best. It has more offset built into it then the Wolf Tooth.

The Falco was a 54T. The other 2 I've used were 50T 110 BCD.

My cross bike has CX1 on it and that was the first time I had used it. Never dropped a chain in about half a season.

I've been using a non-clutch 10 spd SRAM Red RD with an 11 spd chain on the TT bike and haven't dropped a chain with that either. No FD.

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-Mike

Vertex Fit Systems (http://www.vertexfitsystems.com) | Bikeworks (http://www.bikeworksma.com) | Russo Racing (http://www.r2tri.com)

Good to know. Thanks for the feedback. I went ahead and purchased a SRAM based on your recommendation.

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