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Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels?
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I am pretty new to triathlons and I only have a certain amount of funds, so should I buy a power meter or some aero wheels for my new tri bike?
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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buy a powertap wheel and an aero jacket. done.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [BSUdude] [ In reply to ]
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Powertap and an aero helmet.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Both (eventually) :-)

You don't need a PM to guide improve fitness. Many have done without, but I have liked having a PM over all things that I have purchased for training. I am one of those that needs a little more guidance in building that engine and without having a coach I can see post ride if my training was actually a decent effort or just "felt" good. I call my PM's truth meters as to whether I am really hitting the training targets or just deceiving myself with how the session felt.

You can always buy speed, but building that engine to push that bike is a lot more challenging. Which order you decide to do it seems like a personal choice. By the way I owned my first power meter for a year before I really committed to changing my training structure so if training a certain way isn't in the plan the power meter then is not a good purchase. It was during that time of just posing with the power meter and looking at the data post ride that slowly began to influence how I viewed my lack of commitment to training and pointed out my flaws while training. :-) In my case it was helpful to find out that I was a slacker while training.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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If you get a powermeter you will get faster quicker. Which means you will end up riding with faster friends. Usually faster friends have nicer toys (wheels) they will let you borrow.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [coolny29] [ In reply to ]
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Powertap hub in a training wheel w/a cover. Used 60-90 front wheel. Can probably get this setup for the cost of a new set of race wheels. Best of both worlds.

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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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"new" thinking will be powermeter (if you can have only one)

let me tell you though - plenty of fast guys around in the old days never had powermeters and did just fine.

Kinda depends on your current wheels - if they completely suck and you have the capability to suffer in training AND, the discipline to go easy, AND the gift of good pacing (for races) - then you don't need a powermeter; then I'd go with the wheels.

Otherwise everybody (and their brother) here on ST is gonna say powermeter.

Full disclosure - I have an ancient Polar (the chain tension one) and only use it to read data AFTER training, and it's on my training (not racing) bike. I do OK in races.

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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [manofthewoods] [ In reply to ]
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manofthewoods wrote:
"new" thinking will be powermeter (if you can have only one)

let me tell you though - plenty of fast guys around in the old days never had powermeters and did just fine.

Kinda depends on your current wheels - if they completely suck and you have the capability to suffer in training AND, the discipline to go easy, AND the gift of good pacing (for races) - then you don't need a powermeter; then I'd go with the wheels.

Otherwise everybody (and their brother) here on ST is gonna say powermeter.

Full disclosure - I have an ancient Polar (the chain tension one) and only use it to read data AFTER training, and it's on my training (not racing) bike. I do OK in races.

An experienced athlete in any sport...swim, bike, run, trail running, XC skiing, speed skating, snow shoeing.....they all know their body and can manage their paces. I raced for something like 24 years before I got a power meter...once I got the PM, my best results did not change at all. The only thing that changed, is I had a "stupid meter" to hold me back and this made getting good results a slightly more frequent occurrence. It also made training on hard days more interesting, but I only like training with power 2 days per week (if that). The rest of the time, it is more fun to train on feel.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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I'd say neither. There are better things to spend your money on if you have limited funds, like anything else.

The powermeter I'd say isn't really necessary at all if you're riding outdoors, and especially if you ride with groups that dictate your pace. The main reason I would get the powermeter is if you are planning to do a lot of indoor training. In that case, watt targets become a lot more important/useful since you don't have any speed/distance feedback. However, you can get most of the benefits of training with power even without a powermeter by using software like Maximumtrainer (free) or Trainerroad. The limiter in that case will be that without a powermeter you obviously won't get power metrics on race day, which is why something like a powertap wheel or other powermeter can be very helpful if you're doing mostly indoor training and then plan on converting those numbers into useful data for race day.

But if you're training mostly outdoors, I'm with Dev above - I'll bet you'll just ride and record the power more often than you actually use power targets to dictate your workout, so it won't be adding a whole lot. My quality outdoor rides have been exactly the same with/without the powermeter. (My indoor rides are greatly improved with it, though - keeps you honest as it's much, much easier to start inadvertently slacking off indoors, whereas outdoors I tend to find myself exceeding my power targets pretty regularly.)
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I raced for something like 24 years before I got a power meter...once I got the PM, my best results did not change at all.

I first read this and thought, "Well, duh. You can't get a PM when you're already old and expect PRs. You're old."

FWIW- I'm not saying it was a good thought. Or right thought.

FWIW2- You're still kinda old :-)






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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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power
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Power I bought the wheels first but I can not explain to you the importance of power. Borrow race wheels off your buddies.

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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Gtjojo189] [ In reply to ]
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Gtjojo189 wrote:
If you get a powermeter you will get faster quicker. Which means you will end up riding with faster friends. Usually faster friends have nicer toys (wheels) they will let you borrow.


Actually, the exact opposite is true. Race wheels will make you "faster" immediately (for a given power output). The benefits of a power meter takes weeks / months / years to realize. But a power meter has the ability to make you "fitter", which in turn makes you faster.

ETA - I am not advocating wheels over a PM. Just pointing out that wheels will make you "faster" immediately. Putting a power meter on a bike changes nothing in terms of your speed now, but has the potential to make you much faster over time.

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Last edited by: Power13: Dec 19, 14 6:44
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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True but the race wheels will only be for racing. So on your bike maybe 4 times a year. Hit the PM hard and you will see results in 3-4 months. So get the PM now, by the time it's May you should be in better shape and riding with a faster group and able to hit them up for borrowing a disc & 808 by your A race in Sept.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Power meter... you'll get a better bang for your buck.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Do you like math and graphs and downloading data every day? Or do you have a coach who does?


this is one of the main reasons I don't have one, and don't really want one. I like the "idea" of a PM, but in reality, I know that I won't do the data analysis to actually get any value out of it. I work with excel spreadsheets all day, every day at work. I don't really enjoy looking at them for fun. closest thing I do to data analysis is to log how many metres I swim each day. that takes about 4 minutes, and I look at the last week to see how many holes I have in the swim schedule.

besides, my bike looks better without a bunch of extra shit hanging off it. and it's all about how you look.

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Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Dec 19, 14 7:06
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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I got wheel first. Then added PT hub and wheelcover a year later. In retrospect, I should have started with the PT/wheelcover. You can probably add a cheap used deep front for not much more and get it all at once.

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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Actually, the exact opposite is true. Race wheels will make you "faster" immediately (for a given power output). The benefits of a power meter takes weeks / months / years to realize. But a power meter has the ability to make you "fitter", which in turn makes you faster.

I'd change "ability to make you fitter" to "potential to make you fitter". I honestly don't believe a power meter would make much, if any, difference to my fitness at all. >95% of my riding is done outdoors, and >85% of it is done either in group rides or commuting on a singlespeed. If somebody gave me a power meter I'd certainly be interested in looking at the data after the ride, but it would have very little impact in changing how I train.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Gtjojo189 wrote:
If you get a powermeter you will get faster quicker. Which means you will end up riding with faster friends. Usually faster friends have nicer toys (wheels) they will let you borrow.


Actually, the exact opposite is true. Race wheels will make you "faster" immediately (for a given power output). The benefits of a power meter takes weeks / months / years to realize. But a power meter has the ability to make you "fitter", which in turn makes you faster.

ETA - I am not advocating wheels over a PM. Just pointing out that wheels will make you "faster" immediately. Putting a power meter on a bike changes nothing in terms of your speed now, but has the potential to make you much faster over time.


If his race is next week, I would say yes, get the wheels.
If you go out and get a PM now, by the time the season start, you will be a lot faster. That's assuming you know how to train with power. Plus, this will give you more time to figure out which wheels you like because you are going to get a set anyway.


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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps there is a local bike shop that rents race wheels or you rent them online from companies such as 'Race Day Wheels'. Buy the powermeter now and rent the wheels until you can afford to buy them.


.

Once, I was fast. But I got over it.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
If somebody gave me a power meter I'd certainly be interested in looking at the data after the ride, but it would have very little impact in changing how I train.

Would it not?

What if you noticed from your power meter that the way your were training was not leading to any performance improvement?

What if you noticed that your training load wasn't as as high or low as you thought it was during certain parts of the season?

What if you noticed your pacing during races was bad?



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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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aero wheels + trainerroad. no power meter needed, and since you are new to this game trainerroad.com will light your world up.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Tri Nut] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a power meter for a couple of months now and it has been incredible for my training. I was never one to do intervals and would just go ride. Even though I'm not exactly geeking out on the data, I was able to put together some workouts using my FTP. I can now do intervals, where in the past I just mentally couldn't get myself to do. I'd push too hard and blow up, then think about how much it sucked and come up with excuses not to use intervals. a PM is a good tool, and I've noticed the weight comes off really quickly with intervals, so should make me a stronger rider. Plan on working if you get the PM though because that is the only way you will get your money out of it.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
cartsman wrote:
If somebody gave me a power meter I'd certainly be interested in looking at the data after the ride, but it would have very little impact in changing how I train.


Would it not?

What if you noticed from your power meter that the way your were training was not leading to any performance improvement?

What if you noticed that your training load wasn't as as high or low as you thought it was during certain parts of the season?

What if you noticed your pacing during races was bad?

I've been training for >20 years in various sports. I've got a very good feel both for my training load and for where my performance is. And going up the same hill 3-4 times a week on a singlespeed gives me an excellent benchmark of how fit I am!

My pacing during races is probably my biggest asset as an athlete. Whatever shape I'm in when I toe the start-line, I can honestly say that with only one exception I've always crossed the finish line feeling that I've put in very close to the best performance I was capable of that day. The one exception was a marathon where I got hamstring cramp at mile 20, and was a result of paying more attention to the Garmin than to how I was feeling.

I don't doubt that power meters aren't a very good tool for somebody who is prepared to structure their training around power. That just doesn't work for me. Commuting is the only way I can fit in meaningful midweek mileage (I get 100-150 miles/week commuting). And group rides with friends at the weekend are both much more enjoyable and much easier for my wife to accept than me disappearing solo for hours at a time. Within those limitations, I believe that I am already getting as much performance as I can from the training I do.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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A nice wheel set is somthing that you can enjoy 24 hours a day when it blings up your ride and it just makes the bike look real nice so I would go for a good pair of wheels. As for the power meter, a lot of people here are under the impression that a power meter is some kind of magic wand that a perfroamce fairy can wave on you and then "poof" your become faster, but it does not work that way especially when the athlete has existing problems that have not been taken care of( riding a compact chain ring, no mental conditioning, improper diet, etc). Furthermore, Athletes have been going almost 8 hours flat in Iron Man triathlons and cyclists were setting world records long before power meters existed and even today, tri and cycling athletes are going incredibly fast with out PM so I woulnt waste your money on one unless you hasve some really deep pockets.I would Buy a wheel set instead.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Bull_Winkle] [ In reply to ]
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I completely agree with Bull_Winkle. If you don't have an understanding of power meters or a coach to guide you, it's a waste of money right now. Get the wheels, keep training and racing, and learn how to use power or get a coach. Then you can buy the power meter.

But, to be honest, it's hard to beat Trainer Road and training with power. But it's really all about your goals and what you want. Wheels give you immediate satisfaction and it's fun to ride with them. Power is a long term thing

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Last edited by: BryanD: Dec 19, 14 8:17
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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think of it this way:
Race wheels are an immediate improvement on race day. There is also a cap to race wheels. You won't get 2 min faster on your first race then 2 more minutes faster at the next race. it's 2 minutes.

A power meter is a tool that can/should/will yield a performance benefit > that of race wheels but will do it over time. It's a minute here, a minute there, :30 here and there.

One is a quick fix that is capped in benefits, the other is a long term uncapped solution.

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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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People on Slowtwitch love power meters.
Less than half of the people racing Kona used power meters.
I only saw a few without sexy wheels.

Reference for Power Meters at Kona:
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...-power-analysis.html
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Powermeter NO BRAINER!!!
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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mdakolios wrote:
I am pretty new to triathlons and I only have a certain amount of funds, so should I buy a power meter or some aero wheels for my new tri bike?

Just starting out?

I'd buy a coach.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Since no one has mentioned it, I'll say that you don't want to be the poser showing up to the local sprint tri with a hot bike and race wheels.... Only to finish midpacker or worse. As others have said, get whatever that will improve your engine, whether that's a pm or hrm or trainerroad etc. don't buy into the hype of having to show up looking "sexy" if you can't back it up. Always better to outperform expectations, I say.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Personally, I don't give a rats arse what anyone thinks of my ability. But that's not the point of my post. My advice would be to somehow get an affordable set of race wheels (day after Christmas sale?), and then get going on Trainerroad with virtual power. As you do the sweet spot workouts on Trainerroad, you will become more familiar with your ability (power related). In addition, read Friel's Powermeter handbook to get a handle on training with power.

Next year, when you buy a power meter (and you WILL buy a power meter), you will find that your virtual power numbers were strangely close to your actual power meter numbers. you will also have lots of knowledge about training with power, and it will all come together.

Do you have plans to do a 70.3 or 140.6 next season? If not...the power meter can wait.

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [chxddstri] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the advice. Yes, I am training for Ironman Louisville in October. I just upgraded from doing a 70.3 on a road bike to a 2014 P3. Pretty pumped about that. Next gotta save for a power meter!
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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If doing 140.6, than get the power meter. The sooner the better. Borrow or rent race wheels. Just my uneducated 2 cents.

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [mdakolios] [ In reply to ]
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Wheels.

Intuition and feel is a lost art. Ever since I started covering up my power data, I have gotten faster from A-B. When I analyse the power data, I'm always surprised how much steadier my power is and how spot on it is.
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Re: Power Meter or Sexy Race Wheels? [Bull_Winkle] [ In reply to ]
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Bull_Winkle wrote:
but it does not work that way especially when the athlete has existing problems that have not been taken care of( riding a compact chain ring, no mental conditioning, improper diet, etc).



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