Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!)

Jul 23, 14 8:08

Post #1 of 48 Views: 16744

If this crap hasn't become the standard paving material where you live, then count yourself lucky!

They recently repaved every road north of town with this stuff for many miles... every decent route. That includes the TT course and my field testing course! All were much nicer to cycle on before, even though the pavement was worn in spots. I did a long ride yesterday that was nearly all chipseal and wanted to cry. Hands and feet and back would go numb. My 23mm GP4000s were pumped to 80psi, but that isn't nearly low enough to make a significant difference. Maybe I'll have to go to an MTB with slicks pumped to 20psi.

I thought about complaining... but then considered how puny the lobbying body of cyclists is around here, and how most motorists would be willing to pay *extra* to discourage cycling... and well, it would probably have the opposite effect.

It is a cost thing... chipseal uses less oil which is why it has become more economical and more widely used compared to asphalt... and I guess the highway departments have gotten some money they need to spend, which is why they did them all at once. So it looks like the only tactic I could possibly take is *if* the increased tire wear and reduced fuel mileage negates the cost savings. So then it would be basically be taxing people a different way and not really saving money. But I don't know if that is true.

It is possible to use the same process but make the road much smoother, by putting another layer on top with smaller aggregate. They did that to a few miles of one road, but that was it... they are now done.

Anybody have any helpful suggestions on how to persuade the road dept, or how to live with it?

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:18

Post #2 of 48 Views: 16705

wider tires?
gatorskin or similar?
less air pressure?

the worst of it usually wears pretty quickly from the cars and trucks. chipseal would better and safer for bikes than some of the potholed roads we have around here.

run well, run happy
george

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:19

Post #3 of 48 Views: 16703

Almost every road here in South East Pa and NJ is chip and seal. I've seen them pave a road smooth and chip it a month later. I really think it's some kind of scam where construction companies are paid to pave a road the right way, then they cheap out and chip it to pocket the difference .

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:22

Post #4 of 48 Views: 16690

This is Michigan roads, granted Michigan is financially broke so doesn't surprise me.

I just switched to Specialized Armadillo tire. That way I can ride chipseal and dirt roads without hurting my tires.

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:27

Post #5 of 48 Views: 16667

ridenfish39 wrote:

Almost every road here in South East Pa and NJ is chip and seal. I've seen them pave a road smooth and chip it a month later. I really think it's some kind of scam where construction companies are paid to pave a road the right way, then they cheap out and chip it to pocket the difference .

They just did that out here. Beautiful paving job last year, this year crappy chip seal right over the top. It's a small town, so I may ask the city manager what the deal is. I have the feeling they are listening to the contracting company and not common sense.

The worst part is that they didn't fix the bad parts of other roads. Just chip-seal over the holes and cracks. Now they blend in more and are harder to dodge. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

---

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:27

Post #6 of 48 Views: 16665

rruff wrote:

If this crap hasn't become the standard paving material where you live, then count yourself lucky!

It is pretty standard where I ride and is tough to go very far without hitting it.

My experience is that it is brutal at first but wears down and seems to smooth out from vehicle traffic pretty quickly.

I just look at the first few weeks on new chip seal as resistance training.

Good luck!

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:42

Post #7 of 48 Views: 16608

I've seen them pave a road smooth and chip it a month later.

They did that a couple years ago to the main 4 lane road south of town. Beautiful new smooth pavement... then they slathered on the gnarliest chip seal I've seen.

Except for a short section of Airport Rd, that is the only road around here that has a shoulder, and they didn't chipseal that part. I used to avoid riding on that road because the shoulder is always covered with gravel, dirt, glass, staples, nails, screws, etc... but now it is the only place I can ride and experience smooth pavement. How things change! The chipseal mania has all happened in the 8 years since I moved here.

Last edited by: rruff: Jul 23, 14 8:49

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [bmartyn] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:47

Post #8 of 48 Views: 16589

My experience is that it is brutal at first but wears down and seems to smooth out from vehicle traffic pretty quickly.

They do improve somewhat with age, but every chipseal job is different. Some are much rougher than others. About half my ride yesterday was on a 3 year old chipseal, and though it is better than when it was new, it is still terrible. Basically you trade a partial smoothing down of the gravel for bigger imperfections due to wear.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 8:59

Post #9 of 48 Views: 16543

Maybe it increases the advantage for those with low rolling resistance setups? (Maybe not, just trying to think positive.)

Almost certainly favors a wider-lower-pressure setup.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:22

Post #10 of 48 Views: 16485

:(

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:24

Post #11 of 48 Views: 16472

I think any campaign against a crappy chipseal job needs to be via educating how much damage chip sealing does to a person's vehicle. The direct damage is from loose stones themselves pitting paint and providing an avenue for corrosion to start. On chip seal jobs where the contractor cuts corners (quality) by using a larger aggregate, the damage often includes broken windshields in the days and weeks following the job. I have yet to see a contracting company clean the roads of loose aggregate after the sealing is complete as the loose material migrates to the shoulders and center, and the larger bits get kicked up and/or tumble into opposite direction traffic. The loose stones are certainly an injury hazard to motorcyclists. The less obvious costs directly beared by the driver is massively increased tire wear and higher rolling resistance that increases fuel consumption.

Dave

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:26

Post #12 of 48 Views: 16455

They did the same thing to big sections of the Columbia Triathlon course last year. It ruined some really nice roads.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:27

Post #13 of 48 Views: 16454

It's everywhere in WI as well. The worst part is the intersections and shoulders have "loose gravel" for months or worse after application.

It seems if they do it early on in the life of the pavement it's better. If they wait until potholes / etc all it does is cover those up so you can't see them and makes the road even rougher. There are a few roads around here that are chip sealed plus have the "shattered pavement" look. It's hard to hold onto the handle bars on those roads.

The chipseal makes riding the TT bike an absolutely miserable experience and I can't find good pavement on which to ride it! Then when you wedge a rock between the tire and beautiful Project 1 paint it only salts the wound.

24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:28

Post #14 of 48 Views: 16452

Asphalt is expensive, but needs to be done less often, chipseal is dirt cheap shit, but needs to be done every few years at a minimum so it's easier to budget for a small expense every few years even if it costs more in the long term.

You'll never convince cities and voters to pay more, even if it does cost less and create less wear and tear to their cars.

______________________________________________

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:40

Post #15 of 48 Views: 16404

Maybe some kiwis will chime in.. that country is all chip seal!

If the libertarians get their way, you can pave the road in front of your house with whatever you want....

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:54

Post #16 of 48 Views: 16359

Crazy that you posted this today... just last night I was riding one of my favorite routes and discovered multiple roads had been chip sealed. I thought "Ugh, we're STILL suffering from the effects of last winter, I wonder if others in the Midwest are seeing the same thing".

Then, bam, you go and post this.

Yep, it's all over the place in Ohio - pretty much can't avoid it without moving to more heavily traveled roads. I do my best to temporarily avoid the worst roads then they end up back to "ok" after a month or two of traffic.

No good suggestions other than that.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:55

Post #17 of 48 Views: 16358

I'm in Northern Virginia, we're starting to get a lot of latex-modified emulsion surfaces. I don't know how it differs from traditional chip-seal, but I dislike it equally.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:57

Post #18 of 48 Views: 16348

They've been doing it to most of the roads in Boulder County over the last several years...roads that were in beautiful condition.

_________________________________
Steve Johnson
DARK HORSE TRIATHLON |

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 9:58

Post #19 of 48 Views: 16347

around here (NE Ohio) some road depts are better than others at how they do it. One in particular -- not sure if county or township -- seems to use the biggest freakin stones that they can find. I think they take secret delight in seeing how painful they can make it. Other road depts seem able to make a reasonably smooth road with chipseal (like in the picture).

And yeah, I've seen them chipseal over fresh asphalt.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:00

Post #20 of 48 Views: 16338

Around here when they do that, it'll wear in over time but if they do the shoulders, it never wears in as the cars and trucks don't drive there (well unless there is a cyclist). But, our biggest issue is still gravel. They gravel (sand?) the toads in winter so come spring, the shoulders are completely coated. All the gravel has been pushed to the shoulders by the vehicles so the main road is clear. Over the summer, the shoulders slowly get better and then it is winter again. In some cases they will sweep the gravel off but not always.

Having said that, we do have some rural roads that are great.

And, with the Calgary HIM coming up, they make sure that the course is swept so it'll be in really great condition.

BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:02

Post #21 of 48 Views: 16335

It's very common where I live, especially in the rural areas where most cyclists ride. I hate it with a passion. It just takes the joy out of riding plus I worry about flats more, especially soon after they lay it down because of the loose debris.

It also seems to start pitting and cracking pretty quick, so I wouldn't think it's more cost effective in the long run but that's just a guess. Glad to know it's not just my part of the country and there are others out there suffering, too :)

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:23

Post #22 of 48 Views: 16277

23 mm or wider wheels. Good quality 25 mm rubber (evo CX III are the best), latex tubes, 80/85 psi. It is easier to hit high power numbers on the CS AND roll up tri dorks on the CX bike. The roads improve drastically with time. And when you get to good pavement, it feels like a vacation. I like going on group rides right after they chip seal. Fat asses used to sitting on the whole time and attacking over the last 5K finally have to work early on and get shelled out the back.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:30

Post #23 of 48 Views: 16250

I live in NJ, north west of Trenton and they are slowly but surely chip sealing all my favorite routes. I live on a hill - 1 mile climb to get home. Two weeks ago, came home, good & tired from a 3 hour ride, go to turn up my road and there they are, plastering that crap all over the place! Not a fun way to end the day - slipping and sliding through tar & gravel on an up hill!

I have put 23-25mm specialized Roubaix tires on my training wheels and don't pump any higher than 90psi. They do a pretty good job of absorbing the chatter from chip seal and are pretty bomb proof.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rpeterson] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:35

Post #24 of 48 Views: 16236

This is from Cummins' paper on fuel economy... page 26: https://cumminsengines.com/...ter_fuel_economy.pdf

Road Surface Resistance % (compared to concrete):

Asphalt with finish coat 1%
-medium coarse finish 4%
-coarse aggregate 8%
Chip and Seal Blacktop 33%

So here we have chipseal creating 25% higher rolling resistance for a truck. I expect it to be similar for a car. When traveling at 60mph, rolling resistance is typically ~40% of what a car overcomes on a flat road. So ~10% increase in power requirement or 10% reduction in mpg.

Last edited by: rruff: Jul 23, 14 10:36

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:51

Post #25 of 48 Views: 16193

I'm with ya, I hate the fucking stuff.

thanks for those numbers, too, glad there is research showing it's crap as an efficient surface.

The other bad things about chip seal:
-there ends up being a wash of it in all the street drains, can't be good for the sewer system
-a lot of it ends up on the sidewalks, and they don't send the street sweepers in to clean that up. That can be dangerous to folks riding or running on the sidewalk since it's like a bunch of marbles
-it takes the city of Austin about a frakkin year to repaint the road, so where once there was a bike lane, for about a year there are only some mashed-down reflector flags attempting to mark it off. Not a good solution.

-----

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:52

Post #26 of 48 Views: 6255

OK so now you can go out and test and tell us (1) what your CRR is on the chip seal and (2) optimal PSI for the chip seal. I'm genuinely curious.

The good news is it is at its worst when first done and then slowly improves. After a year it won't be nearly as bad, though it will still be bad. If you can turn it into a bicycle safety issue you might be able to get them to reduce the size of the aggregate a bit.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 10:53

Post #27 of 48 Views: 6255

Rev 3 full at Cedar Point a couple years back. A week or two before the race about half the roads got chip sealed. What a wonderful present.

And we too had a road that they ground down and put beautiful smooth pavement down. It was a dream. For about 2 weeks. Then they chip sealed it. My engineer brother with a couple decades of road and bridge building experience tells me the reason they do this is, well, there is no reason, it doesn't do shit for the longevity of the road.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [Optimal_Adrian] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 11:08

Post #28 of 48 Views: 6244

-it takes the city of Austin about a frakkin year to repaint the road, so where once there was a bike lane, for about a year there are only some mashed-down reflector flags attempting to mark it off. Not a good solution.

Actually that is way better, because the cars will then drive on that part and pack it down and keep it clear.

I hate bike lanes and wide shoulders, since they are always covered with copious quantites of crap. Much better to take that big lane and let cars use the whole thing so the right side stays clear of debris.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 11:08

Post #29 of 48 Views: 6246

Chipseal is not much cheaper than smooth aggregate....it is safer especially when wet or icy. Safety is the biggest reason for laying down chipseal according to my uncle who owns a paving company. If your lucky....the county or city you live in will chipseal the road and leave smooth aggregate on the shoulders especially for cyclists. I know my uncle pushes for this method since has a cycling past. Lobby to you county/city state officials for a wide smooth shoulder...especially on cycling routes.

"WHEW...I really regret that workout!"..............Noone

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 11:11

Post #30 of 48 Views: 6242

Every fall out here the crews come out and start laying down the tar and gravel. Though they do what some people call "fog seal", where the gravel is already coated when it's laid down. Less of the gravel gets thrown to the side of the road that way, and it's not a danger to ride on for 2 weeks.

But here's why it happens, at least here:
The county gets X dollars for road maintenance annually. If they don't use it all, their budget gets cut by that amount the following year. So every fall, when "construction season" is winding down, they clean out the budget on chip seal. One year it's all the north-south roads, the next it's the east-west roads.

Sucks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 11:14

Post #31 of 48 Views: 6234

I forgot to add earlier. As bad as chip seal is it is much better than concrete with seams ever 20 feet, especially big seams like on the Racine 70.3 course. That's a beating.

Agree with you on the bike lanes. A lot of them around here are pretty much worthless. They've either got a lot of flat-causing crap or rumble strips, all of which make them next to useless for bikes.

It's hard to use multi-use trails instead of roads due to the 15mph speed limits and runners and walkers with headphones who can't hear you. I'm not a headphone basher. I even wear them sometimes but it's irritating trying to pass people with them. Sorry for the derail.

------------------------
Loud pawls save lives

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [COJO] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 11:15

Post #32 of 48 Views: 6231

Very few roads here have shoulders at all. If they do they are covered with debris and suck to ride on.

Maybe safety is the most popular *excuse* for chipseal, but I don't believe it is real. The only time people here have traction issues is when there is snow and ice on the road. This is on *top* of the road, not under it or mixed in.
And traction is a much bigger issue on steep residential streets... which oddly are never chipsealed.

Last edited by: rruff: Jul 23, 14 11:18

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 11:19

Post #33 of 48 Views: 6223

A couple years ago a local triathlon was faced with the main road being chip sealed the day before (despite telling RD they would wait). It was awful. I felt like I had to ice my balls after the ride. Also felt like I was riding in loose sand. Hearing the rocks bounce off my carbon bike made me want to punch babies (Dane Cook reference).

Cars will smooth it out, but only in the tire lane. Takes a long time for it all too smooth out.

Why would they chipseal a newly paved road? That screams government stupidity.

33% increase rolling resistance. WTF

_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 12:27

Post #34 of 48 Views: 6172

Welcome to the new normal. Not enough tax revenues to pay for decent road surface so we get chip seal. I haven't seen data on this topic but it stands to reason that chip seal increases tire wear (so you buy tires more often), decreases air quality by decreasing gas mileage (you burn more gas which you pay for) and by increasing particulate matter from tire wear, increases noise, and generally decreases happiness while driving/or riding. Thank goodness is saves a little bit on taxes!
Might be time for a return to Softride suspension beam bikes and stems? Or perhaps I could check a box that says increase my taxes by 0.01% to pay for decent roads. I would check it in a heartbeat.
Cheers,
Jim

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 12:45

Post #35 of 48 Views: 6154

I'm sorry for your loss. This thread makes me exceptionally appreciative of the road conditions I ride in the SF Bay Area.

Woodside, CA has smooth roads with wide shoulders, rolling hills, steep shaded climbs, and they even just repaved my favorite descent down highway 84.

The drawback is a median home price around $2mm. So I rent an an adjacent town.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 12:57

Post #36 of 48 Views: 6136

I hate riding on the stuff, but there is a logic to it, from the engineering/road/highway department's perspective. The folks making these calls have ride quality for bikes about as low on the priority list as it can possibly go.

Chip seal is not a pavement. As the name implies, it is a seal. It is generally applied over existing asphalt pavement to a.) seal up existing cracks and prevent water infiltration and b.) to add wearing thickness. Both of these things can extend the life of the pavement. Although 'pre-emptive' chip sealing is less common (at least where I live) it does still happen, for the same reason.

Road departments are chronically underfunded in most places and chip seal is one tactic they can use to stretch their dollars and squeeze a few more years out of what pavement they have.

I completely agree that it sucks for bikes but we aren't the target user group, especially once you are outside of city limits onto county or state controlled roads. Changing this focus to account for all users and not just 'compensating' pickup trucks is something that needs to happen on the political level.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [JesseN] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 14:44

Post #37 of 48 Views: 6072

It sounds like you know something about it. And I understand that bikes are super low priority... especially with the propaganda in many areas telling people that bike riders shouldn't even be allowed to use roads because they don't pay gas taxes!

Do you know if they even look at total cost (fuel and tire wear) in their calculations?

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 14:54

Post #38 of 48 Views: 6063

rruff wrote:

Do you know if they even look at total cost (fuel and tire wear) in their calculations?

No one ever correctly prices negative externalities into things. If they did, gas and candy would cost a lot more.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 15:05

Post #39 of 48 Views: 6051

Unless you live in a super hippy-progressive city, the answer is probably no. Even then, the answer is probably still no. I suppose you could try to make a case for social inequity (i.e. your policy decisions make it more expensive for rural people to drive vs. city dwellers) but that is an awfully hard sell.

IMO it's not that much different vs. forest service and remote rural roads being gravel instead of fancy pavement. The agency is providing a level of service appropriate for the design use. Since bikes aren't (usually) part of that design use our complaints aren't that important until there is a high level change in policy direction. That change is likely not cost effective. Until then, it's fat tires and 'endurance' road bikes for us all, yes?

One place where there is room for compromise is on streets with bike lanes - near me some agencies have had enough brains to seal the main driving surface but leave the bike lanes uncovered.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 15:12

Post #40 of 48 Views: 6042

rruff wrote:

Very few roads here have shoulders at all. If they do they are covered with debris and suck to ride on.

Maybe safety is the most popular *excuse* for chipseal, but I don't believe it is real. The only time people here have traction issues is when there is snow and ice on the road. This is on *top* of the road, not under it or mixed in.
And traction is a much bigger issue on steep residential streets... which oddly are never chipsealed.

It also makes no sense, from a traction standpoint, that chipseal country is the southwest, where snow and ice are non-issues.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [JesseN] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 15:26

Post #41 of 48 Views: 6033

There is a big difference between this and having lower quality roads in low-use areas. They do this to *all* the roads outside of the town limits. The busiest road (4-lane) that they resurfaced with asphalt a couple years ago, was *immediately* covered with chipseal as soon as they were done.

From what I've been able to gather the life cycle cost is close to a toss up if the road gets significant traffic... maintaining the asphalt vs chipseal every few years. If you include the cost of fuel consumption and tire wear, it is probably in favor of asphalt by a good margin.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 17:06

Post #42 of 48 Views: 6004

I've been riding chip and seal roads for a long time. Its great when they get it right but it does take a hard rain to pack it and get rid of the chip dust. Other issue that pop up is too much seal and it gets al over everything. Or too much chip, I've see riders go down, they need some mtg skills, from sliding on loose chip. Then sometimes they use the boulder size chip and the road sucks for a year or more. Where I live they usually get it right but even then it sucks to ride freshly chipped and sealed roads.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 14 18:25

Post #43 of 48 Views: 5974

Luxury! When I were a lad we 'ad rocks an' tar pits.

All chip seal where I live, except for a couple of hundred meters through a small town. I went to the city the other day (about 5 hours away by car), I was salivating at the lovely smooth roads. But do I want to trade cleaner air and fewer enraged drivers for smoother roads?..... well yes, so I'm glad I can't be bothered moving.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 14 3:31

Post #44 of 48 Views: 5919

I'd take chip seal to crap pothole/cracked roads here in DC. I rode 50 miles on chip seal when I was visiting Oregon over the 4th holiday and felt like I was in heaven. Oregon is big on chip seal for lots of roads. I'd take it over mangled roads in the DC area and I ride 120psi all the time chip seal or not.

Of course, the smooth roads of Eastern Maryland/Delaware are the absolute ideal since they're all smooth and have wide clean shoulders.

In Montgomery county, if they repave a road half the time its full of small bumps and imperfections that still make it worse than a chip-sealed road. I'm sure there are other out there that would love chip seal over the stuff they currently have to ride on.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [darkhorsetri] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 14 3:41

Post #45 of 48 Views: 5914

Steve is on the money here! I have been using Panaracer's from Excell and they are more durable than anything I have ridden.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [humanator] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 14 8:08

Post #46 of 48 Views: 5842

Yep in Michigan I think every major road gets it every 2 years. Even my little side road I live on gets it every 3 years. Lately they have been sweeping the curb a week or so after they lay it down and that helps a some. But when you ride on it you feel like you are towing a trailer or something. Slows me way down.

I recently got new tires, switched to GP4000s II, went from 23 to 25, this seems to help some. Also helps with the general "bombed" condition of the roads around here.

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 14 18:16

Post #47 of 48 Views: 5769

Yes, it is the same in Michigan. It also seems that the county hits the roads that are the best to bike on. Really? There are worse roads and you pick my favorite?? I was hoping with the winter we had and the fact the county was out of money there would be no stoning of roads this summer. But oh no, what road do they hit? Steelhead 70.3 for over 5 miles!! So dangerous!

Re: Chip seal rant... (sh!tseal!) [rruff] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 14 13:32

Post #48 of 48 Views: 5665

Time to start looking at gravel bikes?

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