Some do (at least around here) and for free.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Why don't the local auto shops show people how to change their own oil? Why don't accountants teach people how to file their own taxes?

Labor is a high margin business for LBS'. Doing things that take that money out of their pockets doesn't make sense.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

High quality wrenching skills seems to be the last hope for the LBS. If people knew how to do even the simple things, there'd be little reason to even go back. They certainly aren't competing with the internet when it comes to sales. Service and repair is their niche and it's in their best interest to keep it.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Pasadena Cyclery in California put on a full day class, and it included the big blue book of bike repairs from Park Tools. It was invaluable in that it taught me which repairs I could best do on my own, and which were worth spending money on.

A week after the class my chain failed and I was able to use my chain break tool to repair it. Best of all, as I did the repair -- my bike hanging by the seat from a low road sign -- a bunch of my guy friend riders looked on and learned.

The other good thing was to learn how to use a chain whip to swap out a cassette. I don't own one, but I go to the local bike collective to inexpensively rent their bike repair stand, chain whip and other tools. I don't think I would have gone there without enough basic knowledge from the wrenching course.

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Sharon McN
@IronCharo
#TeamZoot
Clif Bar Pace Team 2003-2018

I knew someone would make this argument. I disagree Herr. Basic bike repair is MUCH less complex and part intensive. The skills I'm talking about for bikes at considered basic maintenance for cyclists

Hmmmm, I have a couple of thoughts about this. First, there are some folks who shouldn't be allowed to touch any tools. Second, there are folks that can assemble a bike from scratch and may be able to do a better job than the majority of shop Mechanics This group may or may not want to do the work themselves. Then there is everyone else.

If you can't figure out how to change a flat tire by examining the equipment and looking at examples online then you are in the first group (same thing for changing a car tire but that's a different topic). Now,changing a cogset requires a bit more skill and I suppose a bit of feel with respect to how much to tighten the lock ring but again, with proper tools anyone should be able to do that. Adjust a seat post - same thing. And the list goes on. There are videos on the Internet which demonstrate all this stuff.

But, that's not if you want to. And, if you decide to, make sure you have the right tools. Fixing everything with a mini-set of hex wrenches and a adjustable wrench isn't advisable. Oh, and from a tool perspective, purchase only what you need for what you want to do and build up over time.

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BC Don
Pain is temporary, not giving it your all lasts all Winter.

Because labor is what keeps most shops out of the red. It is the simplest repairs that keep them going as well; flat tires, break pad replacement, new chain, bar tape, switching a saddle out, changing cassettes, etc are all very simple and quick and easy to make money off of. The summer i worked at a pretty large shop we would change around 20-30 flat tires on a saturday (6 dollar tube install), 5-10 chain installs (15 dollar labor for 5 of work), 10-15 break adjustments (10 dollars or so) but new break pads were 20 labor, 5 cassette swaps (10 dollars), 2-3 handlebar wraps (15 dollars), and the list goes on. These add up over time and can make a big difference. The biggest money maker was the basic tune up for 60$ that took a mechanic around 20-30 minutes of work max. Now if a mechanic makes 10 an hour and he does a 60 dollar tuneup in 30 minutes the shop just brought in 55 dollars on that tune up plus any extra sales for parts. Look at those profit margins there, pretty high compared to the 25-50% on the rest of the stuff in the store.

There are many places in the Washington DC area that offers basic classes like you are describing for free.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

In my area at least 3 LBSs do this, some classes are even free.
REI offers those (and other) classes too.

OK....so there are really kind of two options:

1) you have unlocked a brilliant business model that no one in the bike industry has ever thought of before (in the decades / century that it has been around)

or

2) what I said is accurate.

(For reference, I worked for 10 years in the bike business, both at the retail level and for major suppliers).

Quick example - Shops can charge anywhere from $10 - $20 to change a flat. It takes them all of 3 minutes and maybe $2 in product (probably high, but I haven't seen the cost of a tube in awhile). Why would they invent their customers to NOT pay them for this service?

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Issue is, to really get the most out of a class like that, 10 is probably 3-4 people too many. So then instead of $500 your only looking at $300 value, and then it goes from there. ETA: There are tons of bike shops that do spring bike maintenance classes each year, and I'd wager most are free (or you buy the CO2/tire). But more detailed stuff, I would say is very little economic value in giving detailed classes on cassette changing, overhauling the bike, cable re-routing.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Well, if some shops are giving those lessons for FREE as says above, clearly some business models disagree with yours.

The bike shops around here in Norcal are plenty busy enough to NOT need to rely on these trivial repairs you suggest drive their revenue. I've been turned down by shops for changing a chain (they told me it would take a WEEK even though I bought the chain from them and said I'd wait for if if the guy could do it that day) and even on pre-race basic tuneups (not total overhaul, just a light tuneup) that they accepted, but gave me a 14 DAY time to completion. Clearly they're busy enough to not have to rely on the trivial everyday repairs you're mentioning. Looking at their repair inventory, there were over 50 bikes back there, and these were NOT just for flat tires. Same in Socal

OK, sounds like it is Option #1.....I suggest opening a shop and letting us know how it works out.


I don't know what to tell you....in your original post, you hit on the answer and then when it is confirmed, you reject it. Are there shops that are willing to do it, and feel that it works for them? Sure.....but they are far & away the exception to the rule.

Again, why doesn't Jiffy Lube show their customers how to change their own oil? Why don't accountants teach you how to do your own taxes?

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

There has been a lot of talk in the industry lately about the wages of bike store employees and what stores are earning. The wrench earns about ....get this average.....$22,337a yr! that's national average..
a gardener makes average $29,962!!
I know I can drive a truck ..know less and make more!! I can swing a hammer and make more and know less!! Been there done that.
Most stores can not even make there service department run for $65 an hour and thats cheap compared to any repair center with thousands of dollars in tools, and you never have the right one!
I do not blame everyone for trying a save a dollar today. But these guys are just trying to make a living!
I was offered a wrench job in Tucson for $13 an hour for 30yrs experience.
I do not mine teaching you how to get yourself out of trouble but to give away the things I have learnt in 30 yrs that's a different thing.
Lots of LBS are closing thanks to the internet and grey market buying and poor business plans on the owners. Who would stock Shimano parts when you can buy online cheaper then what the store can buy for???? and they (shimano) don't care!
So for the store to tell everyone how to fix there bike for small fee and good thing??..... is that a good business plan?

As said above - these are BASIC things I'm talking about.

If a LBS needs to depend on the business of changing flat tires by keeping their customers ignorant of such basic things, then I don't think they deserve to stay in business. As said, all the LBSs I've been to do NOT need seem to need to depend on trivial fixes on that scale to survive - they had plenty of 'real' bike repair business in their stable.

Sure, they should charge for trivial repairs if the customer still wants to have them do it as its still time spent, but it's a sad state of affairs when you say that LBSs should keep bike customers as ignorant as possible to the degree that they shouldn't know how to change flat or turn the quick adjust barrels on their bike so the LBS can charge money to survive. I'm not talking about building a bike up from the ground here, for those entry level classes. But I do wonder if bike shops might still be able to do fine with teaching higher end stuff like rebuilding entire bikes from the ground up if they charge enough for the class.

I certainly would be more inclined to purchase from my LBS had I received instruction there. As is, they've offered me nothing outside a rare tuneup, so why should I pay them an extra 25% premium on anything compared to online?

If that's the case, you're either not a regular or you're not treating your bike guys right!

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I built my bike from parts. Internet has everything you could ever need. Park's website is full of information too. However, there are stuff that is still out of bound to me like changing my headset but this kind of work has to be done what? once every few years? So it's not a big deal at all.

My shop does this somewhat.
When I bring something in for service, they explain the whole process so that I can A) do it myself (ex. rear derailleur adjust) or B) decide it is too complex/requires too many tools (wheel true) for next time.

This is a college town, however, and so their clientele is constantly turning over. They aren't losing a lifelong dependent by showing me a few things.

Because nearly everything you ever wanted to learn about bicycle maintenance is available as a video tutorial on YouTube.....

Despite this true, it is STILL wayyyy faster as a noob to have someone show you it with your own bike or in person than it is to follow a website or video.

Yes, I suck at wrenching, but I can follow instructions perfectly well, and I recall that the first time I learned to change a chain, I messed it up so badly i had to get a new chain, and the second and third times, it wasn't easy at all. Even the quick-release chain link to me 40 minutes to learn to get it on off. All of these things would have taken <5 mins to demonstrate in person - well worth $50 to pay someone to save me the time wasted. Derailleur adjustment isn't hard, but have you looked at the Park Tool website? It makes a seemingly simple task seem so complex.

And brake maintenance - I couldn't even FIND a manual to how to maintain a simple 105 brake. Is it cantilever? Is it other? Again, it's trivially easy in person, but a huge time waster to do it online yourself with no experience.

Have you approached any LBS's to do this? It seems your going about it the entirely wrong way. Your approach seems to be all about what is in it for you and not viewing anything from the shop. I'm assuming you are buying a lot from online, and then seemingly busting the LBS's balls for their business practices? Yawn

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Here's a decent one using Ultegra brakes - they adjust the same as the 105's (an no, the 105's are not cantilever brakes, they are dual pivot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45llr44Pu9g

Everything you need is already on YouTube. I learned to tune my bikes watching and have now built two bikes, a Di2 and mechanical, by watching how to videos. There are only a few things you need really expensive specialized tools for...for those, I still rely on my LBS. The great thing about YouTube is that when a year goes by and you forget a specific...you can just watch the video again for a refresher. Arts Cyclery has some good videos on there.

I am not an LBS owner nor plan to be, which is why I'm asking.

I'm not asking it from all-me - I'm accounting for both sides.

Typical bike wrench @ LBS: $<12/hr
Typical bike wrench teaching a class of of 5 newer cyclists a 2 hr class including: efficient tire change, derailleur barrel adjustment (correctly), brake pad replacement, chain check/replacement, proper bike cleaning, and a handlebar wrap @ $50/student: $250 for 2 hours, or $125/hr.

Get it up to 8-10 cyclists, and you're looking at $150-$200/hr. Granted, you can't do this all day, but do this once a week, and you'll be supplementing the LBS income pretty well. Add to the fact that you have things like bike levers, chains, chain checkers, etc. available (maybe even for a class discount) and you're selling even more stuff. You could even have the materials (like handlebar tape) as a required extra for the class as an add-on cost. I suspect it's because demand would be so low that they can't even get 5 people to pay $50 for such a class, but I'm just saying I'd gladly pay for that class myself to save the hours of agony of learning it myself with my busy schedule.

Again, was hoping to hear from LBS owners as to why this wasn't work, because as suggested by some above, if it's so easy, why don't people do it all the time?

And no, your generalization about me buying online and skipping the LBS has nothing to do with busting their balls. You'd do the same if you were charged 120% the online price, but still had to install the part yourself.

Agree with this - just ask a local LBS. Most are friendly enough and if your idea has merit, they might just set one up. I can't say I've ever seen an LBS who only charges $12/hour for labor though.

Yes, that's a good video, I found it myself before. But still, it doesn't get at the heart of the problem I was having, which is some 'sticking' with the brake mechanism. Again, this is where a class or expert could quickly show you which contact points to lube, rather than wasting time doing other unneeded things. (I actually changed my brake cables hoping it would help, what a waste of time and expense.)

Dont' disagree with you here, but again, it takes a lot of time for a noob to learn anything.

Just stick a noob in front of youtube who's never been around a bike, and ask them to do this:
1) change tire/tube
2) Adjust a slightly incorrect derailleur
3) Change a chain

More than 3/4 will give up in frustration despite perfectly good instructions on youtube, and the other 1/4 will take hours to accomplish what it would take someone who knows what they're doing less than 10 minutes to show you in person.

There are only two pivot points on the brake...lubing them would be a good start. As with anything mechanical, you should take some time to figure out how something functions before you begin working on it.

but I'm just saying I'd gladly pay for that class myself to save the hours of agony of learning it myself with my busy schedule.

________

Then go to a LBS plop down $250 bucks and tell the owner/mechanic to help you with stuff to the point you'll be satisfied. I'd wager you would have what you wanted accomplished, and both parties would be satisfied. This is really the ideal, but what excuse will you give then to why you haven't done this?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I have worked with 3 different bike shops in the 7+ years of tri coaching and can tell you, no mechanic wants to have a class bigger than 6 or so customers. The 3 stores I have been associated with all did basic bike maintance classes in the spring, one of them charging I think $20 for the class, the other 2 making you simply pay for the CO2 and or maybe the tubes as well. It's a great "PR" move by LBS's but it's also why you'll see them only go over basic bike stuff. It's a give and take more than anything, and so your idea of going into great detail, isn't very appealing to bike stores because they already are losing so many customers to online shopping, why would they even increase the chance of losing more customers.

Also, I don't know any store in the US that would have the customer base to do a $250 class each week. That would die off probably after 1 month. So your looking at a shop making $1k over that month, dealing with 25ish customers.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Easier said than done.

It improved with lubing the pivot points. BUT it actually had to be completely overhauled per the LBS to get it back to shifting normally ( I brought it in a few months later since it still wasn't working well.)

Videos are NOT the end all be all, and you run into one even seemingly minor mishap, and it'll set you back for hours. An experienced LBS could just eyeball my brake and say, 'you need a new one or spend money completely overhauling it.'

I meant not that the LBS charges $12/hr - it's closer to $80/hr.

But the LBS wrench makes little more than $12/hr.

An idea for you --- Organize a class yourself at a local junior college with a friend who is a wrench or partner with an lbs and help them promote it and you have first hand experience if it is worth doing...


If you are personally interested in building your own knowledge and skills YouTube has a treasure trove of bike repair videos. Quality differs but all basic maintenance is well covered for anyone interested. Maybe not a perfect substitute for hands on but close enough.

J

Completely overhauled? What exactly does a "complete overhaul" of a bicycle brake entail, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm not trying to insult you here but, you are obviously not a very mechanically inclined individual.Teaching a person who lacks mechanical knowledge/ability is like teaching C++ to a computer illiterate person. It's not something you should expect someone to teach you over the course of a few hours.

I think a big part of what we're missing here is that even if you did arrange a class, worked with your LBS, and had them go over in detail how to do any number of repairs (besides the basic stuff) you'd still have to practice it fairly regularly to not only remember it, but be able to do it right (if you've got the right tools). As someone else mentioned, there's a lot of videos on YouTube for the DIYers that are as good as having a one-on-one in a shop. Except with the video you can pause, rewind, and watch over and over again.

If you're interested in learning, DM me and I can pass along information of someone I know that would be able to help you. Sounds like you're in my neck of the woods.

Just a +1. As someone else mentioned REI puts on a fairly detailed 1 day workshop. It was a great introduction, but other than learning how to adjust my derailleurs and other minor things, it was just a whirlwind intro to the art of wrenching. I suppose for others more mechanically inclined it was directly helpful, but for me it was a good education on why it pays to build a relationship with a good LBS bike mechanic.