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Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions
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Ordering one with my team kit and wanted to get some thoughts on this.

Front zip or back zip for more aero? I prefer a backzip (zipping down) on my tri suits but I have a slight concern with cooling on the champ sys speed suit. Thinking the front zip might be a better way to go for that, but I have a gut feeling the back zip would be more aero.

Also, sizing. I am kind of all over the place on sizing, but typically I'm a medium top/small bottom in two pieces, and a medium in most brands of one piece tri suits (although I could squeeze into a small probably on most unless it's a super race cut). TT skinsuits I'm a small (see pic below) but I'm going to try an Extra Small on my next one because the small below fits me fine but isn't overly tight. You can see the wrinkles where it bunches up at the joints and for TTs I'd like to eliminate those.




With that considered, should I go with a small in the Apex or size down another notch and go Extra Small? I'm thinking that I'll still have to run in the suit, so I wanna make sure that it doesn't impede my run - but still get the aero gains on the bike.


I'd be using this suit for 140.6 and 70.3 races this year (maybe Leadman 125 if it gets here in time).


Any help would be appreciated! I emailed Champion Systems and they simply emailed a one line reply with a link to their sizing page :\
Last edited by: SurfingLamb: Jan 21, 14 7:58
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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SurfingLamb wrote:
Ordering one with my team kit and wanted to get some thoughts on this.

Front zip or back zip for more aero? I prefer a backzip (zipping down) on my tri suits but I have a slight concern with cooling on the champ sys speed suit. Thinking the front zip might be a better way to go for that, but I have a gut feeling the back zip would be more aero.

Also, sizing. I am kind of all over the place on sizing, but typically I'm a medium top/small bottom in two pieces, and a medium in most brands of one piece tri suits (although I could squeeze into a small probably on most unless it's a super race cut). TT skinsuits I'm a small (see pic below) but I'm going to try an Extra Small on my next one because the small below fits me fine but isn't overly tight. You can see the wrinkles where it bunches up at the joints and for TTs I'd like to eliminate those.




With that considered, should I go with a small in the Apex or size down another notch and go Extra Small? I'm thinking that I'll still have to run in the suit, so I wanna make sure that it doesn't impede my run - but still get the aero gains on the bike.


I'd be using this suit for 140.6 and 70.3 races this year (maybe Leadman 125 if it gets here in time).


Any help would be appreciated! I emailed Champion Systems and they simply emailed a one line reply with a link to their sizing page :\

Gonna be tough to get reviews given how new that product is. From an aero standpoint, I doubt the location of the zipper influences much. The fastest skinsuit available for purchase has a zipper in the front so it can't be all bad.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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I can already tell you that suit isn't really helping you out to much in the pic.

James:
I saw the PI Octane save 20w on one person and cost 2 others 10-20w. Only way to know for sure if the PI is helping or hurting is testing or know what to look for in the fit.

It's like aero helmets, what works great for you may suck ass on me. BTW james you interested in selling one of your aero helmets?

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Last edited by: desert dude: Jan 21, 14 8:13
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I can already tell you that suit isn't really helping you out to much in the pic.

James:
I saw the PI Octane save 20w on one person and cost 2 others 10-20w. Only way to know for sure if the PI is helping or hurting is testing or know what to look for in the fit.

It's like aero helmets, what works great for you may suck ass on me. BTW james you interested in selling one of your aero helmets?

I was referring to the Castelli Body Paint skin suit. Triathlon suits are a step below that, generally.

I don't have that many helmets any more haha.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
desert dude wrote:
I can already tell you that suit isn't really helping you out to much in the pic.

James:
I saw the PI Octane save 20w on one person and cost 2 others 10-20w. Only way to know for sure if the PI is helping or hurting is testing or know what to look for in the fit.

It's like aero helmets, what works great for you may suck ass on me. BTW james you interested in selling one of your aero helmets?


I was referring to the Castelli Body Paint skin suit. Triathlon suits are a step below that, generally.

I don't have that many helmets any more haha.

That's apparently a good suit. You can't stand up in it though. Then again, that's not the point. Big Big takeaway, tight and textured in the arms and no wrinkles.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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Frame's too small...
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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I literally have the exact same questions. I'm ordering one of these from Champsys as well for 70.3's. I'm tired of getting sunburnt really bad so this suit will definitely help my back out. Let me know which side you pick for the zipper.

Looks like Luke McKenzie chose the zipper in the front
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...st_2013KonaMrun2.jpg

and so did Craig Alexander
http://www.slowtwitch.com/...arge_015_TCKona2.jpg

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Last edited by: BryanD: Jan 21, 14 9:56
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [Brushman] [ In reply to ]
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Brushman wrote:
Frame's too small...

heh. I'm still having some fit issues. :(
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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If it were me, I'd try it on before buying and make sure I had my bike with me and someone with a camera who could take my pic in the aero position. It could be slower.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. I get seriously bad sunburns from 70.3s, and I'd rather wear this than risk skin cancer oneday. And yes, I do put sunscreen on

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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In general...

If you have a small upper body it's not going to work. Any wrinkles seem to kill sleeved suits.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Well I am 6'2 so I hopefully won't have to worry about wrinkles

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I'm 6'3"...and one of the guys Brian mentioned losing 10-20w...
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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jeez! 10-20W? how did that happen?

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Oh...and I was wearing a small...

I'll have the exact numbers at some point, but they were along those lines.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I can understand how wrinkles and such can cause drag but how does wearing a suit that covers your shoulders and armpits cause that much drag?

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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It basically looked like I was wearing a loose fitting bike jersey around the shoulders and biceps.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Aka, if someone is lean but has swimmers arms (a la Luke McKenzie) the suits are solid. But anyone with a leaner upper body may be hosed.

Interesting.

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Bad fit = slower.

The PI on Jack and I (same suit matter of fact) ate watts. I was faster in my 2 piece desoto shorts and 2xU top vs the PI suit. your mileage will vary.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [TriPigeon] [ In reply to ]
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Jim at ERO was interested in the possibility of improving the PI's aerodynamic on me by testing with the suit pinned behind the arms and then having it resewn, but I decided there were more important tests to be done for the time being. So that could be potential solution for someone.

Hoping there should be some new stuff hitting the market and I will probably be going with a nice snug Kiwami Amphibian Prima for now.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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I'll admit, I'm hoping to test the CS Skin principally because their Apex bibs and chamois have been my ideal fit so far. I'm a bit bigger in the shoulders than most Triathletes (to the dismay of my bike fitter) so I'll cross my fingers that I can get a good fit.

Thanks so much for posting your experiences from the aero testing, incredibly useful to the rest of us!

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [TriPigeon] [ In reply to ]
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I think I am going to buy it anyway. Champsys stuff normally fits me very well and I'm sick of getting really bad sunburns. This will solve my problem and hopefully give me a little extra speed

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [TriPigeon] [ In reply to ]
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No problem,

As Brian said, if it fits it is FAST. Basically if its a wrinkle free fit I would definitely give it a shot, if it has a few wrinkles I would want to test it, but would take my chances in the mean time, and if it has lots of wrinkles it likely, not certainly, won't do you any good over a tight fitting trisuit.

No problem on the testing experiences. I've learned quite a bit inferring from others data and am happy to contribute now that I have some data.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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I wear Size Small in most of my CS stuff, and just tried a teammate's new Speedsuit. Definitely going for the S, but I wouldn't consider going lower if you want to run in that thing. I'm 6"2 and skeleton-skinny (140lbs) and while the sleeves fit well, any smaller would have me running with a perma-wedgie. After PR'ring the bike by a long shot with an Adidas TechFit compression top (and spending a good 30W less than a few friends who raced similar times), I'm a sleeve-suit convert. Shame most of my racing is in wetsuit-illegal waters.

Cooling doesn't seem to be a problem in the CS suit, since we've just had a 70.3 with a warm and humid run and my teammate, who usually suffers in the heat, survived just fine.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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JTolandTRI wrote:
No problem,

As Brian said, if it fits it is FAST. Basically if its a wrinkle free fit I would definitely give it a shot, if it has a few wrinkles I would want to test it, but would take my chances in the mean time, and if it has lots of wrinkles it likely, not certainly, won't do you any good over a tight fitting trisuit.

No problem on the testing experiences. I've learned quite a bit inferring from others data and am happy to contribute now that I have some data.


Assuming both suits fit and are wrinkle free, is there any significant difference between the Pearl Izumi Tri Octane and the Champion Apex suits?
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Honestly no clue. We had a couple of PI suits to test, no Apex's.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
JTolandTRI wrote:
No problem,

As Brian said, if it fits it is FAST. Basically if its a wrinkle free fit I would definitely give it a shot, if it has a few wrinkles I would want to test it, but would take my chances in the mean time, and if it has lots of wrinkles it likely, not certainly, won't do you any good over a tight fitting trisuit.

No problem on the testing experiences. I've learned quite a bit inferring from others data and am happy to contribute now that I have some data.



Assuming both suits fit and are wrinkle free, is there any significant difference between the Pearl Izumi Tri Octane and the Champion Apex suits?


To be perfectly honest, I would be shocked if the Tri Octane wasn't faster simply due to the material used for each suit. It really does need to fit around your arms and shoulders without wrinkles while in aero. If the suit wrinkles, it'll kill your CdA. We haven't tested them side-by-side yet, but if the suit fits you in aero, it replaces the rear wheel aero cover as best bang for your buck for gaining speed.

There's so much to be gained (and lost) from clothing - as many of the aero campers found out. There's going to be a quick evolution over the next few months on what's being offered. Can't give too much away on that front just yet. Sorry.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
Last edited by: Jim@EROsports: Jan 22, 14 7:49
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [TriPigeon] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm a bit bigger in the shoulders than most Triathletes

There are things you can do to reduce that. I'm a bit more broad shouldered then some of the other campers yet I've got less shoulder seeing the wind by how I positioned myself.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
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I'm a bit bigger in the shoulders than most Triathletes


There are things you can do to reduce that. I'm a bit more broad shouldered then some of the other campers yet I've got less shoulder seeing the wind by how I positioned myself.

break your collarbones!!!

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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That's the approach my fitters and I took, bringing in the elbows and getting the shoulder angle lined up well we're really the keys. I'm lucky that I've still got flexible shoulders!

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
jeez! 10-20W? how did that happen?

I was "That Guy". There were several ways that happened and as soon as we have all the data we'll start another thread. When we started putting this camp together we had no idea how great and insightful it would be. I think Brian would agree with me when I say that we came out a lot more educated than when we went in.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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A lot may be an understatement.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [TriPigeon] [ In reply to ]
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When you say in, do you mean under your ears? Did your elbows come back towards your knees?

Brian Stover USAT LII
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Its eating me up that I didn't try that PI Octane small suit on for testing. I'm searching around town for one to try on now after seeing that last test. Between my less than optimal bike, front brake, helmet and clothing I'm trying to upgrade what I can afford! Damn aerocamp.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [dmags311] [ In reply to ]
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I think I have more questions now then when I went in!

It's pretty much a given that aero testing is only part of the cost, as you would be stupid not to then capitalize on findings in terms of helmets, hydration, clothing. The Felt got you pretty damn low in terms of cda though...toss on an Omega and you will be part way there. Now that you've seen a couple bad and good fitting PI's and the subsequent result you should at least have a refined eye for fit...

Need to start planning round two already....field testing in the meantime.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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More questions for sure. I'd like to think that the size S would be perfect since I'm not a "hunger games" participant like you and Brian!
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [dmags311] [ In reply to ]
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dmags311 wrote:
More questions for sure. I'd like to think that the size S would be perfect since I'm not a "hunger games" participant like you and Brian!

What Felt frame were you on? I am interested because there is no good windtunnel data for the latest Felt frames, but they look pretty fast, both the DA and B series.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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2012 B2
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [dmags311] [ In reply to ]
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Combined with that Devox (?) bar, it's slippery for a non-integrated front end.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [dmags311] [ In reply to ]
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dmags311 wrote:
2012 B2

Thanks, little surprising, since that frame is thought to be a bit slower than a P3.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [dmags311] [ In reply to ]
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dmags311 wrote:
Its eating me up that I didn't try that PI Octane small suit on for testing. I'm searching around town for one to try on now after seeing that last test. Between my less than optimal bike, front brake, helmet and clothing I'm trying to upgrade what I can afford! Damn aerocamp.

I have a small down here in CLT if you wanted to try it out. You'd be responsible for shipping though.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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It's certainly not slow by any means, just not as aero as some newer "superbikes". Surprisingly there was not a P3 at the camp. I was just going through some bike envy.

James, thanks but I ended up ordering one yesterday to try out.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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We brought the pads in towards center and then brought the elbows back towards the torso / knees (a much less extreme version of the praying mantis one could say). It took a bit of adaptation time in terms of power generation, but was a solid choice in terms of frontal position, and now that I've adapted, I might even argue the arm placement has given me a stronger set of contact points.

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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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I am getting one of these suit very soon, went for the front zipper as in the longer stuff I think it is important to be able to adjust "your stuff" if necessary and think it will be better for cooling as well, not that I will need that at IM Wales.

Will post some pictures when it turns up, I was a large in the end tried on Medium as well and was far to restrictive, most of the CS stuff seems to come up a bit on the small side.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [ In reply to ]
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Keep in mind the Champsys suit is over $700 for 1 suit while the Pearl Izumi Octane is $300

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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The suit isn't $700.
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Re: Champion Systems Apex Speed Suit Questions [SurfingLamb] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it is. From my email with Champsys,

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your interest in Champion System. The Speedsuit would be $720 for just 1. Do you have any friends that you could round up for a 10 item order? This would drop the price down to $240. You can mix and match any tops and bottoms to reach 10 items.

Regards,


and go here to this link http://champ-sys.com/triathlon/tri-pricelist

Notice how much the CS-1 price is? $720. It's only $240 if you have a 10 item group order

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Last edited by: BryanD: Feb 25, 14 8:23
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