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hot flashes
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I'm about done. I have to sleep with 2 towels and wake up 5-6 times a night soaked or frozen. Hey, did anyone ever tell you that hot "flashes" (I want to laugh because it is NOT a flash, it is a TSUNAMI) are accompanied with chills? WTheEverlastingFUCK? I thought I was the only one, but hell, this is the new normal. I can't remember the last night I slept. I have started experimenting with soy milk and last night, for the first time, I only woke 3-4 times and was not completely soaked either time. They go on all day long, and I feel like I live in a sauna (well, I do, but when I'm inside I'd like to feel like I got out of it (I live in the tropics)). I can handle the daytime ones but I'm about to go wacko due to the nights. I've read about black cohosh and am looking into how to get it and last resort will be gabapentin. Hoping that soy milk is going to work though because I am at about a breaking point.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Careful with the black cohosh--it has can cause liver damage.

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Been there, done that Kathy. Low dose birth-control pills (estrogen / progesterone) have stopped the hot flashes completely and caused me to sleep normally again. I take melatonin (another hormone) occasionally to endure a full night's rest.

Hope this helps!

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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i tried all the natural stuff. nothing worked. the night is definitely the worst time. i live in the tropics too. during the day, i used to work at a clothing store and the sweating was so bad, i had to be careful when touching the clothes i did not soak the items. now i use a low dose hormone patch. I tried the birth control pill and gained 8 pounds. My doctor is now telling me i need to go off the patch because i have been on them too long. i don't think so. apparently there is a risk for blood clots and other problems. i will take the risk, because at the worst of the hot flashes i was suicidal. seems extreme, but severe lack of sleep and the feeling of one's body cooking from the inside outside does crazy things to people. That is also the time i had to stop training for ironman races. hot flashes and ironman training do not mix.
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Re: hot flashes [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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did not know. thanks for that! Last night I was up twice! I feel like I got a new lease on life and while I usually hate breakfast and don't eat until 10 am, 6:13 and I've already had my bowl of flakes and soy milk (started both at the same time so I'm superstitious to stop the cereal).

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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SallyShortyPnts wrote:
Been there, done that Kathy. Low dose birth-control pills (estrogen / progesterone) have stopped the hot flashes completely and caused me to sleep normally again. I take melatonin (another hormone) occasionally to endure a full night's rest.

Hope this helps!

Well, that is interesting. I had no idea they came in low-dose version and had not considered them as they always made me throw up (normal BCP). Thanks for the option!

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [timberdick] [ In reply to ]
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I hear you! I took the clothes off the line yesterday and had to hold teh basket far away from me so as not to soak the clothes.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I forgot to add that I tried the HRT patch as well. However, as a triathlete, the swim time caused the patch to come off prematurely. I switched to the pill after that; it was also a little cheaper.

Weight gain did not happen for me, although I struggled with that when I took the Pill 20 years ago. Unfortunately, there is not much dosage variance, so it's one size fits all.

The good news is that hot flashes have stopped.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I am 42 and started with the night sweats several months ago. Add to that insane mood swings, the attention span of a 2 year old, zero sex drive, and insomnia, I eventually went to my gyn. She put me on an antidepressant, but that backfired in a day with over-the-top anxiety. We went with Low-orgesteral, a low dose bcp I was on for years prior to getting married and having two kids. It's been magical. Now I only sweat at night when I am on the off-week.

I've had 2 kids in two years and am now managing two toddlers. One other peri-meno side effect exacerbated by the recent deliveries is incontinence. No matter how many kegel's I did, it wouldn't help. And alcohol made it worse. I trained and ran my first 5k in 4 years in November, and found that I was having leaking issues when running downhill. Weird. The bcp has also helped the incontinence quite a bit.
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Re: hot flashes [jenbikerun] [ In reply to ]
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I am having the night sweats too. I alternate between burning and freezing and frequently wake up in the middle of the night in a lake.

The following have helped me: DH has set the thermostat at 66 degrees (it is freezing in our room), I also run the fan if it is humid, I take regular dose BCP (I am only 40 and my gyn is not convinced that I am menopausal), I use topical estrogen cream, and I am avoiding soy almost completely.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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The complete inability to sleep, horribly embarrassing sweat fests at work, and a libido that was nonexistent finally convinced me to see an OB a few weeks ago, and ask about my options. He put me on a low dose estrogen/progesterone pill (the lowest dose available, I am told), and a compounded testosterone cream. I'm not competing until I can get my knee fixed, so I wasn't worried about testosterone being a banned substance, but given that you are competing, you might want to decline the testosterone. Since going on the pills, I am sleeping a ton better; I do not wake up in a pool of sweat, nor do I sweat through all of my work clothes during the day; my sex drive is even back. The only problem: I've gained 5 lbs in three weeks, while eating less and exercising the same amount -- about 12 hours a week. The weight gain correlates directly with going on the HRT.

I'm not sure that's an endorsement of HRT, but if your symptoms are driving you bonkers, which is sounds like they are, you might want to look into it. I just told myself there was no harm in seeing if it would work. Much as I am incredibly depressed about the weight gain, it is truly wonderful to know that I am capable of sleeping soundly, and I'm not running back and forth to the dry cleaners to have all of my work clothes cleaned, because I've sweated through them.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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How long you been eating soy mik? you know it contains plan estrogens right? It may be contributing.

AP

------------------------
"How bad could it be?" - SimpleS
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Re: hot flashes [AndyPants] [ In reply to ]
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AndyPants wrote:
How long you been eating soy mik? you know it contains plan estrogens right? It may be contributing.

AP

Well, here is the weird thing. I just STARTED the soy milk and it seems to be making a huge difference. I know it contains plant estrogens and I thought that was the reason for the help. More research needed obviously.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I, too, keep towels by the bed to wipe the sheets dry so I don't freeze! I don't have hot flashes during the day so much any more but still have horrible ones at night. No meds for me-54 and am approaching 1 year of no period. But I have experimented with a couple things-increasing water consumption and adding lecithin capsules at night both seem to help. Also cutting back on carbs at night seem to lessen them.
I also keep a fan on.
I hate these things-miserable night and then working 12 hour days. Hard to train.
Try to really drink tons of water-I tend to average 4-5 liters a day and that doesn't account for the increase in the summer when training hard. It can then be 7+ liters.
I feel your pain, girl.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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OMG, I am listening, b/c I listen to everyone going through this to gather as much knowledge as I can.

I recommend a female, OB who specializes in menopause. I know the current feeling du jour is au naturel amongst many, but this new OB I saw said the HRT study (which "scared" many) inherently was flawed b/c it tested a wide range of women from 50-80. Her belief was that if you're young, in you're 50s, no history of breast cancer, low dose HRTs have shown no problem. In the "old days" they'd just push HRTs on everyone who walked in the door, the 50, 60, 70, 80 y/o w/out thought.

You need to decide for yourself, and your quality of life, but a low dose bcp that might reduce the effects for awhile might be worth it.

And what someone else said, be cautious with black cohosh. Some evidence it helps, but also evidence of liver damage. I'd def. check blood work regularly, maybe use Milk Thistle as a supportive.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I still suggest the soy milk. Two cups a day. Works for me. You need to keep using it and over time it becomes even more effective.

In a nutshell, "...according to the most comprehensive study to date, eating two servings of soy foods a day may help reduce the frequency and severity of hot flashes. ...The interest in soy for hot flashes began when researchers noticed only about 10 per cent of Asian women experience menopausal symptoms. Its been speculated that Asian women are less likely to have hot flashes due to their high soy consumption.

Soy protein contains isoflavones, natural compounds that can bind weakly to certain estrogen receptors in the body. In so doing, soy isoflavones might help compensate for declining estrogen levels that accompany menopause and offer some relief for hot flashes."
http://researchingmommy.blogspot.ca/...eer-woman-rides.html

I bought my own soy milk making machine and I make two batches at once to save on clean up time. Even with the cost of the machine factored in, one litre of soy milk costs around $0.30 versus $2.69 for store bought stuff. The fact that there are no additives is a welcome bonus.
Last edited by: karencoutts: Feb 3, 13 22:03
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Re: hot flashes [cayenne] [ In reply to ]
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I stopped wearing cotton to bed a long time ago. I wear running shirts so I'm not freezing cold and wet like cotton is. It really helps. I also don't have any heat on in my bedroom. I don't have a bed buddy other than my cat so that keeps it cooler too.

I'm back on low dose birth control because my periods were getting really heavy and painful. I'm turning 44 in March and my birth mother started menopause very early. IIRC she said early 40s. I get night sweats and I'm hoping low dose BC will help with that. I just started 2 months ago. It is definitely helping with my periods!

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Trying putting a fan at the foot of your bed to circulate the air.

Staying cool when the heat is on
FREE training call to Overcome Blocks and Fears when Racing on Wed, 2/13 register at http://expertsportsperformance.com/training
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I THOUGHT the soy milk was helping but apparently there is a fine line in my body as too much gives me diarrhea. Also experimented with drinking lots of water yesterday and last night was one of the worst nights yet. I'm really trying to go "natural" but having horrible workouts and these night saunas (have the A/C on all night) is getting tiresome. I'm going to dial back the soy a bit and continue the water for another month or so and then cave to low-dose hormones if I can't get some energy in me. I'm just about done after 4km of running and that's just not right. Oh, and thanks EVERYONE so much with all their tips.

BTW, we don't have artificial heat here unless we get in the car and turn it on and this winter has been mild enough I haven't even put socks on, let alone resort to car heat. :) You know it is a harsh winter when you're forced to wear socks.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


Last edited by: kathy_caribe: Feb 6, 13 5:36
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Be careful about drinking too much fluid close to bedtime. In my experience, the full bladder makes me prone to waking and nightmares. When I wake up, my body furnace turns on and I start sweating and feel hot so I can't go back to sleep.

The soy milk seems to control the night waking.

(Also, being cold leads to nightmares).
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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karencoutts wrote:
Be careful about drinking too much fluid close to bedtime. In my experience, the full bladder makes me prone to waking and nightmares. When I wake up, my body furnace turns on and I start sweating and feel hot so I can't go back to sleep.

The soy milk seems to control the night waking.

(Also, being cold leads to nightmares).

YES! Every awakening leads to a flash. :) Will try drinking more in the am hours but that will cut into my coffee consumption and, well, not sure I want to go there. :)

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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JenSw wrote:
I stopped wearing cotton to bed a long time ago. I wear running shirts so I'm not freezing cold and wet like cotton is. It really helps. !

I did this last night and I don't know if it was a "good" night or what (adding more soy, drinking water, yadda yadda) but I only needed the 2nd towel on 1/2 of my top and didn't thoroughly soak the bottom towel. I know I was sweating but I didn't get the horrific freezing I usually do. thanks!

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [Loren Fogelman] [ In reply to ]
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Loren Fogelman wrote:
Trying putting a fan at the foot of your bed to circulate the air.

I have a fan over the bed and run teh A/C all night (normal for our weather) but a fan pointed at me would make the freezing much worse, IMO. I think I wake mostly from freezing and not from sweating. Sigh. :)

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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One of my friends is a well-known doc that specializes in menopause and is releasing a new online mag called Menopause Magazine in a couple weeks. He's just waiting for the final approval from Apple. I'll see if there's any suggestions that may help.

Staying cool when the heat is on
FREE training call to Overcome Blocks and Fears when Racing on Wed, 2/13 register at http://expertsportsperformance.com/training
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Here's the response from a leading authority on women and menopause:


There is a lot of info to share. To make it as quick as I can, treatment depends on expectations, preferences, and risk factors. At the beginning are lifestyle changes such as limiting caffeine, spicy foods and alcohol. Next comes the addition of exercise, drinking lots of water and yoga or tai chi. Then comes over the counter remedies like soy and black cohosh. Next non-estrogen prescriptions like gabapentin - a new version is coming out this year along with another one called paraxotine. Finally, estrogen.

So nothing short. I have a lot of info about many of these topics on YouTube.com/doctorseibel and other options on http://www.doctorseibel.com/menopause. My Menopause Magazine due out soon has an entire issue on estrogen safety and then articles on lifestyle and estrogen alternatives and these two new alternatives coming out this year. Factored in is her expectations, perspectives and risk factors. So not a simple answer but answerable with details and discussion.

Not a quick fix, but I hope it helps.

Staying cool when the heat is on
FREE training call to Overcome Blocks and Fears when Racing on Wed, 2/13 register at http://expertsportsperformance.com/training
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Re: hot flashes [Loren Fogelman] [ In reply to ]
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Loren Fogelman wrote:
Here's the response from a leading authority on women and menopause:


There is a lot of info to share. To make it as quick as I can, treatment depends on expectations, preferences, and risk factors. At the beginning are lifestyle changes such as limiting caffeine, spicy foods and alcohol. Next comes the addition of exercise, drinking lots of water and yoga or tai chi. Then comes over the counter remedies like soy and black cohosh. Next non-estrogen prescriptions like gabapentin - a new version is coming out this year along with another one called paraxotine. Finally, estrogen.

So nothing short. I have a lot of info about many of these topics on YouTube.com/doctorseibel and other options on http://www.doctorseibel.com/menopause. My Menopause Magazine due out soon has an entire issue on estrogen safety and then articles on lifestyle and estrogen alternatives and these two new alternatives coming out this year. Factored in is her expectations, perspectives and risk factors. So not a simple answer but answerable with details and discussion.

Not a quick fix, but I hope it helps.

thanks so much but my eyes blurred after the "limiting caffeine and spicy foods" and the rest is a blur. I'll have 1 foot in the grave and 1 hand holding a hot cuppa black Joe before I give it up. ;)

Srsly, thanks! Working on the water and soy, trying to find a balance between enough soy for flashes but not too much (diarrhea). I've also read about gabapentin and I guess I'd try that before HRT. Again, thanks so much!

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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You're very welcome. I've also used a technique called the Emotional Freedom Techniques for a wide variety of things. I'm doing a free tele-class for athletes next Wed. Feel free to join if it interests you by going to http://expertsportsperformance.com/training/

Staying cool when the heat is on
FREE training call to Overcome Blocks and Fears when Racing on Wed, 2/13 register at http://expertsportsperformance.com/training
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I used low-dose bio-identical 7-beta estradiol prescribed by my menopause doctor (Brand name Divigel). I found it to be great for insomnia, night sweats, mood swings, fatigue, and the "menopot" around the belly. I've tested my blood and the estrogen level is practically at the lowest detection limit, which means I'm getting just enough to help me feel better without the risks related to estrogen. Put it this way, with Divigel (applied as a gel topically for transdermal absorption), my estrogen level is below what it would have been before menopause, but enough to where I get great relief from menopause symptoms. My only problem now is that my insurance no longer covers brand name, so I will have to switch over to something else.
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Re: hot flashes [Loren Fogelman] [ In reply to ]
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I don't drink coffee or alcohol, so no problem there for me!

I exercise already, but not sure why yoga or tai chi are suggested? That doesn't make any sense to me. Best I could find is that yoga decreases insomnia in postmenopausal women. But so would exercise, right? The study's groups were: passive, stretching, and yoga. So it's virtually a study of exercise vs non-exercise. We all know that exercise helps us sleep, menopausal or non-menopausal.

The suggestion that made sense to me was the soy, since it mimics estrogen.

Having done research, I heard about black cohosh. I tried that and it did absolutely nothing for me, FWIW. Here's a 2009 study to back me up, interestingly funded by an Alternative Medicine group. http://nccam.nih.gov/...spotlight/042610.htm So for now, don't go running out to buy some. Another article, from September 2012: http://www.sciencedaily.com/.../09/120913173032.htm
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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The reason yoga would be recommended is due to increased mindfulness. As your holding the different poses you learn to relax into them. Getting frustrated with the sleep problems (although I fully understand) leads to tension in your body because you're fighting it. You're having an emotional response to a physiological issue. Learning to accept the wave of hot or cold, without the resistance, creates a different response. It puts you back in charge.

Similar to racing a tri, if you get distracted, or lose confidence then you're body tenses. You can't perform to your best when your tense. So the goal is to learn how to remain focused on the goal, even when you're under pressure. If you can do that during a tri then you can respond in a similar way to your hot / cold states at night.

Staying cool when the heat is on
FREE training call to Overcome Blocks and Fears when Racing on Wed, 2/13 register at http://expertsportsperformance.com/training
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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bumping this with a week or so of results. I took someone (sorry didn't come to me)'s advice and bumped up my soy milk to 2 cups a day. 1 cup was doing nothing except giving me calcium (I can't do dairy). Then I spaced out the 2 cups - 1 in the am and 1 late in the pm and that made a definite difference! Libido still non existant but I got a little relief from no recovery from hard efforts AND I'm only waking 2-3 times a night due to sweats/chills. So HUGE success there. I'm looking into maca root now. ANyone work with that?

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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It must be a minimal dose (2 cups) because if I have less or miss a day, I have sleep problems soon after. I notice bad sleep whenever I go on vacations and wonder whether it has to do with not drinking soy during the day.

Glad to hear it's sort of working for you.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Girlfriend,
Throw in the towel and take the drugs. I say this as a 45 year old triathlete who started menapause overnight at 43. Thought I was losing my mind, not to mention my bladder, sleep and sex drive. After a month of the nonsense and constant concerns about losing complete control of my bladder (happened twice on group rides) I called the doc. I have never taken meds regularly and avoided western medicine unless absolutely necessary. A $7000 deductible will do that to a person.

One appointment, a prescription of 2 milligrams of estrogen and 4 days later I was the Annie I used to know. I praise the inventors of synthetic estrogen. That little $4 bottle of tiny blue sanity pills saved my life and probably my job and marriage. I'm never giving it up. Zero side effects. Quality of life returned to normal. Am I risking cancer? Maybe. But I'm risking it every time I put on deodorant, eat processed food, get a bad sunburn, visit a smog filled city.....we're all going to die of something. I will take a quality life over amiserable long one any day.

Go get the bottle of blue sanity. You won't regret it.
In Reply To:
In Reply To:

~Annie~
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Re: hot flashes [Annie] [ In reply to ]
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I've had episodic bouts with the hot flashes for the past couple of years (I'm 52). The most recent one started up again about a month ago and I thought "dang, here we go again". In reading the comments about soy milk, I thought I'd try it. After 4 days and about 500ml (2 servings) a day, I've already noticed a difference. Can it happen that quickly? I'll be on holiday next week and won't have access to soy milk so I'll see if they come back.

One more point re: weight gain which is another major complaint around menopause. I gained about 8 pounds from September to December with the winding down of race season. After the Christmas season ended, I concentrated on portion sizes of my meals as I do eat really well. I also didn't deny myself the odd treat (cookie) or salty snack like a bag of chips. Anyway, I have managed to lose 6 pounds to date. My training volume is the same as it usually is this time of year, so I do attribute the weight loss to just watching what I shove in my mouth.
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Re: hot flashes [kimbie] [ In reply to ]
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I have found a big difference (at night) just from missing 1 cup. I am now concentrating on a 12-hour span between cups and have had 2 GREAT nights in a row!

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Do any of you have a cooling mattress pad? I just got a new bed, first one in 15 years, and I love it except it is hot! I already have the heat off in my bedroom so it's a cool in there as I can get it.





----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce
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Re: hot flashes [JenSw] [ In reply to ]
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I'm down to one drenching a night (sometimes 0) with 12 hour apart large cups of soy milk and COPIOUS amounts of water. I'll have to look into a cooling mattress pad. I just keep shirts and towels at bedside to change for that one drenching event.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Update - I was doing okay on 2 cups of soy and much water but would still ocassionally have soaking nights and always needed to sleep on a towel and duirng the day would soak clothing. I'm on my 2nd week of powdered maca root and boy, what a DIFFERENCE! I rarely have soaking flashes now and I haven't slept on a towel for maybe 5 days? I started at a leveled 1/4 tsp and this week I've increased to a heaping 1/4 tsp. Going slowly as the gut movement is amazing! :)

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Glad to hear the maca root is working for you. I bought a bottle of the pill form and it has been a disappointment so far. I have another 4 days to go and I will have consumed a month's worth of the product.

It absolutely galls me that my hormone replacement pills are now $85 per month, while the analogous man's product (Androgel) can be had for a measly $10. I was looking for a cheaper alternative, but may be forced to go back to the expensive pills, as it's hard to place a price on a good night's sleep.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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SSP, have you tried melatonin for the sleep disruption? has worked wonders for me since the hot flashes started

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
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Re: hot flashes [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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I take melatonin every night. It helps me get to sleep, but not stay asleep.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I TOTALLY jinxed myself by posting. :) However, the soy milk + copious amounts of water + maca root are definitely better than nothing. :) I'm going to try upping my maca root to 1/2 tsp this week and see if I can decrease the soy. I have, however, strangely gained weight (argh!) so that is normally a sign hormones are coming back. Alas, no libido changes.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Have any of you tried accupuncture? I was a non-believer until my wife (58yo) tried it. Major hot flashes even though she was taking hormone replacements, hooked on lunesta (sp?) and still couldn't sleep. She was a wreck!! About 10 sessions later she is a new person. Rarely has hot flashes, no hormone replacements, and sleeps like a rock. May I also add that I am no longer scared of her.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Well, it seems I am starting to get daytime hot flashes again, the last few days.

I had been eating soy milk in the form of tofu dessert (homemade). Maybe by coagulating it, somehow that decreases the efficacy of the estrogen-like compound?

Also, on fasting days (I am fasting for 24 hours twice a week to prolong lifespan), I don't drink any soy milk. Maybe that is contributing. Started that three weeks ago.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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another update for anyone following along. since my last post I've been slowly increasing the maca root to twice a day. I tried going 1/2 tsp but my gut didn't handle it so I'm doing heaping 1/4 tsp bid and the hot flashes (dripping sweat, have to change clothes, sleep wtih towels) are GONE. Also, apparently I've been a royal bitch and didn't know it. :) I've felt like everyone in my family is Such A Loser and finding fault (in my head) with all of them and the other day I felt a lightness of mind I hadn't had in a LONG time. So there's that. Libido is coming back and I get warm flashes and sometimes might break a sweat but so much less I don't even keep towels by the bed anymore.

Anyway, it has taken a while to kick in, but it really has made a huge difference. I think this week I'm starting to maybe see some tiredness relief also. No naps yesterday or the day before!

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for updating us, Kathy. I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I am having terrible and frequent hot flashes now. May I ask what brand and form of macca root that you use?
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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karencoutts wrote:
Thank you for updating us, Kathy. I really appreciate you sharing your experience.

I am having terrible and frequent hot flashes now. May I ask what brand and form of macca root that you use?

I got it off Amazon. Let me see if Ic an find it...

here you go. http://www.amazon.com/...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you! That is a good price, and organic too.
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Re: hot flashes [Thumper] [ In reply to ]
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I get the generic of Estrace in pill form. $4 a month or three months for $10. Thats cash price.i dont have prescription coverage. My estrogen level went to zero a couple years ago when my body fat level got a little lower. I had previously had a partial hysterectomy, so was probably susceptible to early menopause anyway. So, I take 2mg, which is the highest dose. Even though my body fat is a little higher now, the estrogen never came back.

~Annie~
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Re: hot flashes [Annie] [ In reply to ]
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I just realized why I'm having hot flashes now, after I read your post. I recently lost 10 pounds, so likely that has thrown my estrogen for a loop, as I was already on the edge with soy milk as a hormone replacement.

I bought organic raw maca powder at a local grocer for $24 for a pound. Started with a dose of 1/2 teaspoon, but I read that it won't take effect for 3 weeks. Darn. My night waking is so horrible that it's every 1-1.5 hours. Dreadful stuff, this menopause. I also have hot flashes during the day as often as once every two hours.

All of this since my rapid weight loss.
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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I had struggles with sleeping, night sweats and more similar to what Kathy talks about as well as fatigue, and joint issues. Turns out for me it was a tick borne disease called Babesosis along with Lyme which is like malaria and a red blood cell parasite. After 7 months of treatment, I sleep through the night, and don't have sweats during the day or night which is amazing after struggling for 4-5 years.

Testing for Babeosis isn't that accurate which makes diagnosis challenging.
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Re: hot flashes [KathyG] [ In reply to ]
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I am so glad you finally found out what was wrong! Are your joint problems any better now that you've got a diagnosis?
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Re: hot flashes [Eileen] [ In reply to ]
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Eileen wrote:
I am so glad you finally found out what was wrong! Are your joint problems any better now that you've got a diagnosis?

Yes my joint issues are much better. I've been on oral antibiotics since September.and IV since October. Finally in last month my joints don't hurt all the time. I had a spec scan and brain MRI that showed white lesions and blood flow issues...scary stuff.

I'm not able to do much as far as normal tri stuff. I try to ride my bike 15-30 minutes every few days. Sad to go from IM to sick couch potato. When picc comes out I will try to get back to the pool.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I'm now having hot flashes as often as once every 22 minutes, and waking up 3-5 times/night. Now I'm back to trying black cohosh (2x540 mg) in addition to 2 cups of soy milk, and 1 T of maca root. If it gets better, I won't know which one of these is working.

Not sure whether it is the large fat loss or my age which has created the return of my hot flashes.

Also, came across this article which rates treatments on a scale of 10, with none of the treatments receiving higher than a 5/10 rating.

Really tempted to just take the hormones.

Also looking into cooling blankets using "Outlast" material, which supposedly takes heat from you and returns it to you when you need it. Priced $100-200 for blankets and sheet sets (each!).

Yeah, pretty desperate.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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update - so I started 1/4 tsp powdered maca root the 1st week of April and the last week or so I've noticed I have NO hot flashes At All, not even warm flushes. I can wear clothing multiple days in a row (as long as I don't go outside (live in the tropics) :)) and libido is starting to make a comeback. I'm at 1/2 tsp a day (not measured - eyeballed). Highly recommended.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Kathy, I'm giving it a go. Be sure to monitor your bp. Seems a potential side effect is to raise bp.

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
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Re: hot flashes [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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Last edited by: TriBeer: Jun 20, 13 9:11
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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And... they're gone.

My hot flashes are suddenly gone. One day last week I just noticed that I wasn't getting any more hot flashes during the day. Weird.

But I also stopped intermittent fasting, and I gained back 4 pounds, so now at 124. Not diligent about taking soy milk, had already stopped with the black cohosh and maca root before the hot flashes also stopped.

I am still waking up once a night, but wow, that's a lot better than 4-5 times.

So I'm thinking it was the fasting twice a week that was throwing my system out of whack.

The Outlast blanket is pretty good, I think.
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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yes, estrogen is stored in your fat. sadly :) weight / fat loss will affect your levels. i go thru this in the winter when lifting weights and training hard. i had shit for sleep in Jan, Feb, and March.

TriBeer! Do NOT give up. They told me it was "impossible" to be having hot flashes and insomnia at 33. they said i was depressed and needed Xanax. well, bitches be WRONG. it was only when i could not get preggers did they bother to test my estrogen levels, and yes, i was like a 20 which was farrrr below normal for a young healthy person.

anyhow, find a doctor and INSIST on some blood work. it's your money, you pay for the insurance, and your body. stand up to these doctors, i did, and it gave me my life back.
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Re: hot flashes [sto] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the encouragement.
Last edited by: TriBeer: Jun 20, 13 9:12
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Re: hot flashes [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
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I just had my bi-annual physical and mentioned my hot flashes to my doctor. He said I should try taking evening primrose oil, red clover and sage. I went out to get the 3 herbals and couldn't get the sage but I started taking the primrose oil and red clover. Within 2 days, my hot flashes are gone. I was having daytime and night time sweats. Boy, that first night of full sleep felt great!
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Re: hot flashes [kimbie] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for sharing. Glad the herbs worked for you. I'll check it out. Again, thank you!
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Re: hot flashes [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
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I'm taking 500mg capsule once a day of primrose oil and one 400mg of red clover. It's been 2 weeks and I'm hot flash free (there should be a t-shirt for that!). I was worried about how I was going to cope with the hot summer weather but don't have to now.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Holy crap, the other night, I woke up about 2 am and I thought I was really really sick. Tingles up my spine, thought I was going to throw up. The heat that came on? I have never experienced anything like it. Full on sweat like I was running sprints in the 90 degree heat, full sun. Whew, that was rough. You are experiencing this 5-6 times per night? I turn 42 this month, I guess this is the official start of peri-meno. I've had small random hot flashes before but never anything of the maginitude of the other night. Nothing since. Not looking forard to this. Considering going to my internist for a blood work up just to see where I am at estrogen wise. Anything new working for you? Have you tried the black cohosh?

__________________________________________________
Twitter: @jayasports
Web: http://www.jayasports.com

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Re: hot flashes [jen-g] [ In reply to ]
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jen-g wrote:
Holy crap, the other night, I woke up about 2 am and I thought I was really really sick. Tingles up my spine, thought I was going to throw up. The heat that came on? I have never experienced anything like it. Full on sweat like I was running sprints in the 90 degree heat, full sun. Whew, that was rough. You are experiencing this 5-6 times per night? I turn 42 this month, I guess this is the official start of peri-meno. I've had small random hot flashes before but never anything of the maginitude of the other night. Nothing since. Not looking forard to this. Considering going to my internist for a blood work up just to see where I am at estrogen wise. Anything new working for you? Have you tried the black cohosh?

yup. that's it. what I didn't realize is that you get chills along with them. so double your fun. I used to keep a stack of shirts and towels bedside to soak through. I've been on maca root since April and it is like menopause is on a different planet. I am amazed what an incredible difference it has made. I've started getting some very low level warm flushes - not anything close to a hot flash twice or once a day lately so i've upped my maca root to twice a day (started today). but yeah, the maca root has totally reversed menopause for me. amazing.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I have raw maca powder in the cabinet that my husband bought. What do you add it to?

__________________________________________________
Twitter: @jayasports
Web: http://www.jayasports.com

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Re: hot flashes [jen-g] [ In reply to ]
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jen-g wrote:
I have raw maca powder in the cabinet that my husband bought. What do you add it to?

I'm at the point now I can take it alone with a very ugly face afterwards, but dissolving in soy milk works for me or best is I put it on my oatmeal.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [jen-g] [ In reply to ]
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It can go in kefir or yogurt smoothies. A little goes a very long way; start with 1/4 tsp daily. Be careful, because if you take too much it can really do a number on your stomach.

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
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Re: hot flashes [Tri3] [ In reply to ]
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Tri3 wrote:
It can go in kefir or yogurt smoothies. A little goes a very long way; start with 1/4 tsp daily. Be careful, because if you take too much it can really do a number on your stomach.

Very true! I took a full month to go from 1/4 tsp to 1/2 tsp. I'm now doing a heaping (eyeballed) 1/2 tsp twice a day.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Great idea, thanks girls, I'm starting it up! quarter tsp in the smoothie or yogurt mix :)

__________________________________________________
Twitter: @jayasports
Web: http://www.jayasports.com

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Re: hot flashes [KathyG] [ In reply to ]
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OMG how did I miss this??? SO glad you have some relief Kathy! How's it going now?

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting thread and lots of great information. Hysterectomy 2 years ago plummeted me into surgical menopause and tons of hot flashes. Was on the Vivelle Patch up until 5 months ago, but it did work well.....next to no hot flashes. I was having problems with the patches coming off when working out/sweating. I went to see a mid-wife (funny since I'm well beyond that stage) and she prescribed bio-identical hormones that is a cream that I use every night. Not nearly as effective, but trying to give it 6 months.
About the melotonin.....any side effects? Those that use it, are you groggy in the morning?
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Re: hot flashes [BrendaB] [ In reply to ]
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I'm letting mine dissolve under my tongue as I type. No side-effects because it helps me fall asleep. Unfortunately, I'll be back up in about 2 hours. My HRT cream has made my night sweats and hot flashes much worse, sooooo, back next Friday to change the dosage and try to dial it in to bring relief.

I guess, at least, something has changed :-/

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks SallyShortyPnts! I'll pick some up this week and give it a try. Sorry to hear our cream has made your flashes worse. I will say that the pharmacist has increased my prescription for the first 3 months and I have noticed it got better and better. It's still not as effective as the Vivelle Patch for me personally, but much better than if I use nothing.
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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I know you have your hot flashes under control with macca, Kathy, but it didn't work with me. Here is my update.

I lost weight for my marathon and am now down to 117, was 124 when my hot flashes stopped. They hot flashes tend to disappear when I gain weight and come back when I lose.

So I have been having terrible hot flashes. Once every 20-90 minutes round the clock.

My doctor gave me an Effexor prescription for the second time. First time I didn't take it, didn't want to mess my body up with anti-depressants. But this time I was desperate. If I can't sleep, I can't train. I was waking up 6-7 times a night, just really ridiculous. The Effexor works. It cuts down the frequency to about half so that sometimes I even forget I have hot flashes. So now I wake up twice/night. That may sound terrible to some of you, but it is great because then I can sleep for two hours at a time.

The effect on hot flashes is an off label use of the anti-depressant Effexor.

After my A race marathon, I tried to go off the Effexor, but the hot flashes came back with a vengeance within two days and I went back on it again. I use only one pill, 37.5 mg. I don't want to take two even it means I can sleep through the night. I heard that withdrawal gives your brain zaps and that doesn't sound good.
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Re: hot flashes [karencoutts] [ In reply to ]
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OMG. the Maca totally stopped working for me - even wtih taking breaks so i got this stuff from Costco when i was back in teh US - let me find it... Estroven! I took that for a month or so, let's see....December, January, February and in March i got my period. It had been about 11 months since my last one and i was SURE i was in menopause but age 55 this year and Estroven killed the menopause. :) cycled again the past few days and have been off Estroven since March. Go figure. I have heard that OBs say the longer you cycle the less cancer risk so i dunno, i guess it is a good thing?

anyway, body really responded to Estroven FWIW. :)

oh, actually, at the triathlon in Cuba I found myself bleeding but only during the marathon and only that day and a little the next and i figured it had something to do with the event but maybe it was the Estroven. Just remembered that just now. So, maybe it worked in a month. dunno. just glad (in this tropical heat) not to have to deal with the flashes.

happy to see you got some results with Effexor - try the Estroven and see what happens.

http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit


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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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your body may have just been doing one last hurrah
that is what mine did
no supplements
no hormones
last period was september then in February hot flashes stopped boobs started to hurt and sure enough in March - bled like a stuck pig

hot flashes started up a couple of days ago

and I am now 5 pounds up from race weight

oh well
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for telling me about Estroven. That may be my next step.
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Hi sally - I know you wrote this months ago (at least, no year listed... but....)

I joined this forum because I wanted to respond to your post about the cost of your pills... assume you are talking about estrogen/progesterone combination pills. I also saw a cost (6 years ago) of $65/month... but the pharmacy suggested that I get the two items separately at a cost of $8.99 each (USD) estrogen, progesterone separately... rather than the expensive combination pill.

I hope this helps.

To share my story in case it is of any help to anyone else - i'm 59, started menopause 6 years ago as of Nov 2016-

I took estrogen alone because they mistakenly only gave me that at first (March 2011) and it eradicated my major symptoms in less than 10 days (thus I noticed the price jump when they gave me the combination pill).

I didn't like the progesterone because it made me tired all day long. Tried gels, bio-identical, etc.

My research showed (and my doc agreed) that a lose dose of estradiol (.25mg rather than .65) as prophylactic was ok for 4 years but then can cause increased risks if you have a uterus (agree with the person who said the WIH study - which used .65 - is a carwash).

Anyway - I tried to get re-evaluated after 4 years but moved and my 'new' docs kept leaving their practice.... so after 5.5 years I got tested and my endometrial lining increased to 12.2mm on ultrasound. The one I had a long time ago was .60-.70 (I can't find it but I remember. From my research 8-11mm is ok for taking low dose estradiol, but after that is an increased risk of various issues - so I went off it last month. After a month off, lining down to .71 (norm is .50). I anticipate no problem ....they'll do a biopsy next week.

But - I'm on this forum because night sweats returned once I quit the estrogen - in 2011 they were as vicious as the worst described here along with all the menopause symptoms you can find...but this time is still sweating through PJs and freezing several times a night, irritable, emotional, stressed..sleepless - but not as bad as before. Its worse when I'm stressed. Hmmm.

Among all the answers I've read in this forum, the one that popped out for me was to sleep in running shirts that wick away moisture so you don't have to take them off and freeze in a cool room with a fan on. (as my other half prefers) I did better in a warm room where I didn't freeze after sweating and could fall back asleep more easily, but life is a compromise.

I have tried melatonin (and anti-anxiety meds which do help but may affect memory)...I quit caffeine, and have not found any difference with or without alcohol which I quit for a long time. I did have my thyroid out this year, but I don't think that has been an issue. I didn't have any symptoms but they found a lump.

I have not tried the other things listed here:
Low-orgesteral
gabapentin
paraxotine
Divigel
adding lecithin capsules at night
not eating carbs at night
exercise only in the daytime
acupuncture
500mg capsule once a day of primrose oil and one 400mg of red clover
or Estroven -which I bought but then tossed out because of the black cohosh, which I know helps you sleep but can be hard on the liver

I had tried soy milk but it disagreed with me... I might try it again. I've made a list of the rest ....

Thank you all for your thoughts!
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Re: hot flashes [Taless] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, this is an oldie but goodie (thread, that is ;-)

I am now on the Wiley Protocol

http://thewileyprotocol.com/

It is considered controversial, because formerly, the thought of a menopausal woman going back to premenopausal estrogen/progesterone levels with menstrual cycles again was a fast road to cancer.

Aaaaand they're finding that's not so true anymore. Suzanne Somers and other actresses of a "certain age" have been very successful with this treatment. The difference in my skin and energy levels has been pretty dramatic. My caveat is that it isn't a pill or patch, it's cream that must be dosed twice daily in varying amounts.

It's not for everyone, but it's certainly worked well for me. I am already in the practice of taking morning and evening vitamins, etc. The creams (estrogen and progesterone) sit next to my tooth brush and vitamins, so I remember to do them all as a twice-daily ritual.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for your reply! Yes the majority do not have any problem. The WIH stopped the trials because there was an increased risk of cancer without the benefit (regarding heart attacks) that they expected.... but they didn't consider so many of the other well-being issues that women deal with in menopause... I think it should be up to each of us to take the risk of either estrogen, progesterone, or both. We pretty much have to manage our own medical care anyway.

I've only been off estrogen a month so I haven't noticed the difference with skin/hair, but energy has definitely fallen, weight gain... but then i know women who took nothing and did just fine, too...

Thank you again... I will look up http://thewileyprotocol.com/
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Re: hot flashes [kathy_caribe] [ In reply to ]
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A couple of interesting podcasts over on anothermotherrunner.com:

Menopause and Running - http://anothermotherrunner.com/...0-menopause-running/
and also related
How Sex Differences Affect Women's Running Performance and Recovery - http://anothermotherrunner.com/...1/20/244-stacy-sims/
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Re: hot flashes [Taless] [ In reply to ]
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It should ALSO be mentioned that the WHI study was based on synthetic HRT made with HORSE PEE= Premarin and Prometrium, Provera. Horrible stuff that we are NOT meant to have in our bodies. Bio identical HRT is the way to go !

Sally, how is the Wiley Protocol working for you ??? I read her book "Sex, Lies, and Menopause" which I really liked !! A little bit out there but I liked it ! I do bio identical creams, but I'm not on her protocol.
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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cassidyfit1 wrote:
It should ALSO be mentioned that the WHI study was based on synthetic HRT made with HORSE PEE= Premarin and Prometrium, Provera. Horrible stuff that we are NOT meant to have in our bodies. Bio identical HRT is the way to go !

Sally, how is the Wiley Protocol working for you ??? I read her book "Sex, Lies, and Menopause" which I really liked !! A little bit out there but I liked it ! I do bio identical creams, but I'm not on her protocol.

Still use it and love it! I won't lie, having a period again is kind of a PITA. I've dealt with that for most of my years on Earth, so really, no big deal. I sleep better, I've lost fat, my skin and hair look and feel healthier; what's not to love-oh, the period 😉

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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So true about WIH.

I am now back on estradiol, but using a .0375 patch (they say .05 is the norm).

Update on my post from last November - I found my whole history notes:
March 2011 - .5 estradiol pills started (see prev post for details)
July 2012 - endometrium 10.9mm so cut dose in half (still helped symptoms a LOT)
March 2013 - endometrium 7.7 (should not be over 11mm)
Oct 2016 - endometrium thickened to 12.2 (no symptoms). Doc panicked - stopped estrogen - all symptoms returned with a vengence in 2 weeks.
Dec 22, 2016 - finally started .05 estradiol patch with 100mg progesterone
Dec 2016 - surgical DnC showed a polyp which is why doc said lining had thickened. All tissue normal.
Feb 2017 - stopped progesterone, made me sleep better but drowsy in day, so they said I had to take norethindrone in a high does every 3-4 months if I want to stay on estradiol
March 2017 - started .0375 patch ... prefer to take lowest dose possible and there doesn't seem to be much difference.

The patch is supposed to be healthier than the pill because it doesn't go through your system the same way, but I'm forced to take the norethindrone to shed the lining because of WIH even though it doesn't seem to apply to me. I was supposed to do this in May but I have too many things going on that month, so I'll try it for the first time in early June.

Has anyone else used this routine with the patch or norethindrone?
Last edited by: Taless: Apr 17, 17 12:43
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Re: hot flashes [jenbikerun] [ In reply to ]
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Hope I am not too nosey , but do you remember which anti-depressent caused anxiety?
I am guessing Well butrin? All the rest just made me sleepy and hungry.
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Re: hot flashes [dustytrails] [ In reply to ]
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dustytrails wrote:
Hope I am not too nosey , but do you remember which anti-depressent caused anxiety?
I am guessing Well butrin? All the rest just made me sleepy and hungry.

Since her post is from 2013, you may be waiting a while...my guess would be Prozac or a generic equivalent (ex-husband is a psychiatrist and I was on it myself in the 1990's).

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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it is horse pee from a pregnant horse. that is collected in a cruel disgusting way. and many of the foals born are killed as soon as they are born. another reason not to use premarin and prometrium.
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Re: hot flashes [timberdick] [ In reply to ]
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Sally: that is so great that you're doing well on the Wiley protocol !!! It makes a lot of sense what she suggests to do, and I really did want to try it but I couldn't find anybody in my area that knew about it believe it or not...... I'm doing ok so far I guess on the creams that I am using & my oral progesterone at night, and it's been almost 3 years !!!

Timberdick: yup...... just horrible crap in every sense ! I can't believe it's still on the market to be honest !!!! Big pharma at its finest :-(
Last edited by: cassidyfit1: Apr 19, 17 7:17
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Re: hot flashes [Taless] [ In reply to ]
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Tales: I personally would avoid any synthetic hormones & norethindrone is one of them.
They just really screw with our bodies.

Effexor was also mentioned in this thread. Also bad ! At the end of the day you have to remember we have all these problems because in menopause we're losing our hormones that we once had that kept us healthy vibrant...... so in order to try and stay healthy and not have these horrible feelings we should replace what we're losing. We're definitely not having hot flashes because of a lack of Effexor..... yes it may help, but it's just bad for us.

All of the other stuff mentioned that helps, it's just masking our symptoms.
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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I see that you're in the Sunshine state, but it doesn't list where. My doctor, who accepted my insurance, moved to Palm Beach Gardens, FL. His name is Dr. Jeffrey Brown, DO. The Wiley Protocol website lists other physicians who are trained in the protocol.

It's a sign of the times that doctors don't seem to try much that's different if it opens them up to potentially more liability, even if the procedure has potential to help many people get back to a normal night's rest, etc.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Sally ! No way ! I work in Palm Beach Gardens in live in the town north of there- Jupiter !!!!
I'm totally calling that guy !
Hahahahaha !!
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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Please tell him Sally Sawyer says hello from "Fabulous Las Vegas"!

Glad I could help!

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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YOU'RE THE BESTEST <3
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Re: hot flashes [timberdick] [ In reply to ]
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Timber - totally agree...horrific...
Last edited by: Taless: Apr 19, 17 12:52
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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Cassidy - I appreciate your perspective but avoiding taking drugs doesn't solve my problem. I went off unopposed estrogen last fall after 5+ years on an incredibly low dose with absolutely no problems. My symptoms returned and were again completely debilitating. Perhaps you didn't have such a severe experience. Now I've just lost my job but I hope to negotiate to keep my insurance at least til the end of the year so uninsured treatments are out. Plus, I had my thyroid removed last year and I'm still stabilizing, so I don't want to take anything homeopathic either.

All the (multiple) doctors I've dealt with since moving here cite WIH and do not treat people like individuals (I thought Oregon would be more progressive but NOT - it is the worst medical practice of anywhere I've lived). They insist I either take progesterone daily or norethindrone once every few months to stimulate shedding the uterine lining. I could lie and say I'm taking it. However, I would like to be able to trust medical advice and have an honest relationship with my providers... thus my research here...

My question again - has anyone else used this drug / routine? (estradiol patch or pill with norethindrone every few months)
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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My sister's family lives not far from Jupiter. They're not old enough for menopause, but good to know!
Last edited by: Taless: Apr 19, 17 12:57
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Re: hot flashes [Taless] [ In reply to ]
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Taless...I'm not saying avoid ALL HRT....just synthetic (norethindrone)

And trust me, when menopause/peri hit me it was BAD. Hot flashes ALL DAY AND NIGHT......heart palpitations, panic attacks....I wanted to kill myself. NO ONE I spoke to had it as bad as I did.

The problem with our "experts" and doctors is that unless they're doing the research, these doctors rely on information given to them by big pharma....so they just prescribe what they think will work for you based on what they're told. Very sad. A lot of them are VERY uninformed and misinformed.

I'm sorry you're having a rough time out there. Taking bio identical progesterone daily should be OK.

In your original post back in November you didn't specify what hormones you were taking ? Synthetic or bioidentical ? You did write this "I didn't like the progesterone because it made me tired all day long. Tried gels, bio-identical, etc" WHAT progesterone were you taking and how much ???
What bio identicals were you doing ? ONLY gels ?? (they're not so great because they cause a spike in the hormone when you use it as opposed to a cream 2x a day)

"My research showed (and my doc agreed) that a lose dose of estradiol (.25mg rather than .65) as prophylactic was ok for 4 years but then can cause increased risks if you have a uterus (agree with the person who said the WIH study - which used .65 - is a carwash)." WHAT estradiol are you referring to here also ? If it's any synthetic (premarin) , then yes absolutely sadly :-(

But if you are doing any estradiol you need the progesterone if you still have a uterus. (I'm sure you know this)

But seriously if anyone is telling you that you HAVE TO take norethindrone then you need new doctors !!
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Cassidy -

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I'm sorry you went through as bad a time as I did. My own mother wouldn't pick up the phone for months and we usually talk at least weekly.

I did not keep really good records (perhaps for obvious reasons) when menopause first started. I don't know what the gels were, except that they were bioidentical progesterone. I was not given creams. I had progesterone pills but I do not have any details.

I did go to a naturopath last fall but found out that was not covered by my insurance, so have to decline going that route.

I have never taken premarin. The name of the drug is estradiol (both pills starting in 2012 and transdermal patch starting recently).

You said " if you are doing any estradiol you need the progesterone if you still have a uterus. (I'm sure you know this) " However, that determination was made because of WIH, which some of us believe is debatable. Lets not debate that. My doctor up north agreed, but the doctors here do not. They insist on daily progesterone or norethindrone every few months. That is the choice I was given. I was also advised, after having my thyroid out, not to do a lot of experimentation because the thyroid and other hormones interact and we need to get the thyroid stabilized.

Anyway, I take it no one here has tried norethindrone. Thank you anyway for the conversation!
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Re: hot flashes [Taless] [ In reply to ]
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Taless....it just frustrates me because I wish I could help you !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know what it's like to suffer and it's HORRIBLE :-(
WE have to be our own advocates when it comes to what's going on in our bodies...I remember reading something when I was doing all of my research 3 years ago & it said: there are 40 million women going through menopause this year....and there are 40 million different symptoms :-(

I mean we all get similar stuff, but we are all different too.......
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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hey cassidyfit1. you and I should talk. your post caught my attention. killing myself was high on my list. luckily i did not go through with it. i still suffer from hot flashes. it has been 15 years. my goal for today is go back and read all the new posts on this subject matter.
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Re: hot flashes [Taless] [ In reply to ]
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Taless wrote:
My question again - has anyone else used this drug / routine? (estradiol patch or pill with norethindrone every few months)

Since this thread is several years old (which is a good thing), please forgive me if I already posted the following: two therapies before I started what I am using now (Wiley Protocol), I was on the patch.

The problem I had with it was that as a swimmer, the patch appeared to have been designed with glue that could withstand a shower, but not repeated 90 minutes swims every week. They fell off and I got the feeling that the prescribed dose was not getting into my body, so I stopped after the second patch fell off prematurely.

While we're discussing the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) I want to remind all of what should be obvious to those on this website; that the overwhelming majority of women used in the 20 year-old study bore NO resemblance to us. Too many menopausal women even today DO NOT EXERCISE. Therefore, I would be highly sceptical of having my aging health and wellness decisions based on somebody else who smoked, wore crippling stiletto heels to work that made them sedentary in their retirement years (my mother, for instance).

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: hot flashes [cassidyfit1] [ In reply to ]
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Cassidy - Omg, I totally agree that "WE have to be our own advocates when it comes to what's going on in our bodies.."

I thought it was just since I moved here .. that Oregon is screwed up... I had one doctor for two decades in CA and then one almost my whole time in WA, but here... I haven't met anyone (except one surgeon) who treats a person like an individual. I thought this would be a progressive State but its the reverse. I'll spare you the details... you are lucky to be in CA!
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Sally -

I did read your post, and thank you for re-posting the info on the patch. But since you did not keep using it, and did not use the patch/norethindrone routine, our situations are a bit different.

I don't know if the WIH women were all sedentary - they were considered 'healthy' at the time.

These are some of my notes from the WIH 3-year follow up study (I never took CEE). However, as was pointed out - the estrogens prescribed for many of us are now completely different than what was used in WIH.

NOTES:

In the original study - 16 608 postmenopausal, predominantly healthy women with an intact uterus who were 50 through 79 years old at study entry received active treatment (8506) or placebo (8102). Treatment consisted of 0.625 mg of Conjugated Equine Estrogens, and 2.5 mg of Medroxyprogesterone Acetate.

Although designed …for 8 to 9 years, the trial was stopped at a mean 5.6 years of follow-up because of an increased risk of invasive breast cancer and the failure to demonstrate an overall health benefit.

A greater risk of malignancies occurred in the CEE plus MPA than in the placebo group (n = 281 vs n = 218)

More breast cancers were diagnosed in women who had been randomly assigned to receive CEE plus MPA vs placebo (n = 79 vs n = 60).Although there was a greater risk of invasive breast cancer in the CEE plus MPA group (79 vs 60), the difference in risk was not statistically significant.

All-cause mortality was somewhat higher in the CEE plus MPA than in the placebo group (n = 233 vs n = 196)

In this 3-year followup study - - 250 women had died of the CEE plus MPA group and 239 women of the placebo group. There were no statistically significant differences between the CEE plus MPA and placebo groups across any of the 19 variables examined. Follow-up during the postintervention phase was missing for 389 leaving 15 730 participants.

The rates of colorectal cancer did not differ significantly. Rates of endometrial cancer were lower in the CEE plus MPA group, but the difference was not statistically significant.

Although women in the CEE plus MPA group had a significantly lower risk of fractures during the intervention phase, differences by treatment group were greatly attenuated after the intervention (meaning: 3 years later, CVD risks and fracture benefits dissipated).

During the intervention phase all-cause mortality was almost identical in both arms of the trial. The annualized event rates for the outcome “all cancer” was higher during the postintervention follow-up for the CEE plus MPA group (1.56% per year) than the placebo group (1.26% per year).

Cancer-related deaths included 101 in the CEE plus MPA group vs 69 in the placebo group in the postintervention follow-up, but only 27 deaths in the CEE plus MPA group and 16 deaths in the placebo group were associated with breast, colorectal, endometrial, or ovarian cancer (prespecified cancer outcomes). Thus, the "other-cancers" category accounted for a larger absolute number of deaths, but with a similar pattern of association. Among the other cancers, most were lung cancer events (33 in the CEE plus MPA group vs 15 in the placebo group).

As a result, after a mean follow-up of 2.4 years after the intervention, the overall assessment of health risks and benefits associated with CEE plus MPA continued to be weighted toward risk.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/...px?articleid=1108397
Last edited by: Taless: Apr 20, 17 17:52
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Re: hot flashes [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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SallyShortyPnts wrote:
Taless wrote:
My question again - has anyone else used this drug / routine? (estradiol patch or pill with norethindrone every few months)


Since this thread is several years old (which is a good thing), please forgive me if I already posted the following: two therapies before I started what I am using now (Wiley Protocol), I was on the patch.

The problem I had with it was that as a swimmer, the patch appeared to have been designed with glue that could withstand a shower, but not repeated 90 minutes swims every week. They fell off and I got the feeling that the prescribed dose was not getting into my body, so I stopped after the second patch fell off prematurely.

While we're discussing the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) I want to remind all of what should be obvious to those on this website; that the overwhelming majority of women used in the 20 year-old study bore NO resemblance to us. Too many menopausal women even today DO NOT EXERCISE. Therefore, I would be highly sceptical of having my aging health and wellness decisions based on somebody else who smoked, wore crippling stiletto heels to work that made them sedentary in their retirement years (my mother, for instance).

I am glad that you brought that up. I am meeting with my gyno this week for help dealing with perimenopause (what I wouldn't give to sleep through the night again!). I know that he doesn't have many patients who are very active. I will need to point out to him that I swim a lot and sweat a lot, so patches probably won't work. Before I go in, I need to do some research on creams.
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Re: hot flashes [happyscientist] [ In reply to ]
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They're kind of a PITA to apply 2X daily, but so is brushing and flossing my teeth, so....I do it anyway.

And as you said, NOTHING is more important than a good night's rest when you can't get to sleep or stay asleep 😴

DFL > DNF > DNS
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