damn........
it would have been an even mor exciting race with normanator in it

Is infection a code word for "scared shitless of Macca"???

I'm a huge fan of all of these guys (especially Faris, Macca and Normann) but if this is true, it's very disappointing.

Kai-you know Faris better than most, hopefully he'll change his tactics on Sunday--no sense in pulling Macca all the way to the marathon.

Yep I second you on that one.

It's really disappointing though as I was pumped about this one. That will give Macca a huge psychological advantage for Kona now as he'll know he's got Normann running scared.

I really can't see Faris giving Macca anything to worry about either but we'll see!

Yes, obviously it is far more likely that a professional triathlete who makes his living out of racing and being sponsored to race, and who is incidentally a 2-time Kona winner, has pulled out of a race because he is scared of the competition than that he is simply carrying an injury and doesn't want to put his season at risk.

I'm not a Macca- or Normann-hater or -lover, but you are clearly talking absolute bollocks.

Agreed

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Mizuno Running - http://www.mizunousa.com/running

While we don't know all the facts, Normann's DNS does look a little weak.

It would've been great for both Normann and Macca to show up in good shape/healthy and race hard against each other.

Nothing shocking. Either DNF or DNS. I wonder sometimes if the "D" stands for Deutsche???

Faris should have paid Bjorn to show up at Ironman Germany instead of LP so that they could do a TTT and pull away from Macca....this is the only way Faris can beat Macca, unless Faris got some 2:42 running legs. All kidding aside, I hope that Faris takes it. The man is ultra cool. I think if he was permitted, he'd have a few steins of the best Bavarian brew on the bike to carb up for the run!!!

My point exactly - all the facts point to Normann not being healthy hence the no-show. If he really didn't want to race Macca until Kona, he could have pulled out a while back under the guise of changing season priorities, rather than withdrawing at the last minute.

I would happily consider toeing the line for an IM if I was carrying an injury or illness so long as I still thought I could get round and not do myself any permanent damage - I'm running for personal achievement so getting round in a slow time but knowing I did so while toughing it out at less than 100% can be a day for me to treasure. Particularly if it's my A race. Totally different ball game for a pro - they don't get paid for sub-par performances and toughing it out can mean that niggly injuries or a minor illness can blow up into something that jeopardises their next payday if not their whole season.

Well if it is True then Normann is Chicken shit scared!!!!
As if you read the Thread about him signing with Scott then he was talking it up!!
Oh Napoleon (Normann) can't be liking his new Scott!!!

Don't really think that age of Macca is here, he's 35 so getting old and there are a lot of fast under 30 year old Ironman athletes going very fast!!
Will be interesting to see if he finishes Challenge Roth 1 week after Ironman Germany.

Maybe Normann will turn up in Roth and then we'll see if Macca tries to complete the double..
SteveMc

quite possibly I am talking bollocks. It wouldn't be the first time ;-)

However it's just my opinion whether bollocks or not.

It seems no coincidence to me that whenever the heat is turned up a notch or two that Normann has a tendency to crumble (ie. two DNF's as defending Kona champion, pulling out of this head to head days before). I don't think I'm alone in that view.

That being said he tends to do well when people write him off so I wouldn't be at all suprised if he smashed Kona again this year.

BTW - I like both Normann and Macca so my view is purely impartial.

Agreed!

Fred.

yeah, I call bollocks. I don't think you win Kona twice without having the heat turned up once or twice during the race. It isn't like he just coasted to a win both times.
Why ruin your season by taking a chance on a race that really doesn't mean anything. Although I am sure he would love to win on home soil. I would imagine that Kona is the "A" race for him.

Well I do hope that Normann picked up his Ironman Germany race number as they are doing Blood test for all pro athletes so if he doesn't get blood taken there will be a huge amount of speculation thrown on Normann!
Food for thought!

Why?

Really?? I think it's you that's talking bollocks now. A 20 odd minute lead off the bike in 2004 is as close to coasting as it gets in Ironman racing in my view.

Anyway in terms of heat I was referring to the heat as defending champion at Kona - race build up, expectations that go with it etc etc.

The indisputable fact is that he has DNF'd twice as defending champion and it's no secret he appears to have been a little upset and put off his game a little when coming in as champion. That's the heat I'm talking about.

Anyway we'll see come Kona.

Dude....come on...smack talk is great...we all love it...keep it coming. Normann has never failed a single test. Be careful what you say in an open forum. You should not better. It is completely unfair to even speculate and I believe it is against the forum rules. The guy is a 2xKona champion and does not deserve this type of innuendo.

I'll second what Dev said.

You really shouldn't be making those type of statements, or speculations about someone that you do not know and who has never been found guilty of anything other than racing hard and giving it his all.

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Member of the Litespeed Factory Team
www.litespeed.com

reason of no-show:
normann got acc. to 3athlon.de sick a fe weeks ago after a training session with run and open-water swim with team-mate markus fachbach. this guy was sick too.

other race:
acc. to 3athlon.de normann would like to race IM lake placid, july 20th

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kind regards
Kai Baumgartner

Hey Dev
All I'm saying is pressure does funny things!! I know he is one of the best Triathlete's in the World but this is the biggest race outside Hawaii and has more pressure on him to win than the World Championships!

So being an Ironman UK winner, if you were to go back there and try and win again as a past champion and had to pull out right before the race ,could we then speculate that the pressure to win (since you had already won there once before), must have been too great and you were likely juiced up?

Honestly, what you insinuated is beyond stupid. And I doubt very much your sponsors would want you talking like that .

Kaihawaii....it would be awesome to have Normann at Lake Placid....he'll need to take out Hellriegel's 1999 bike time to claim the Deutch-uberbiker crown on that course though....

Cervelomad, I'm not going to comment on what makes pro triathlete rise or crumble under pressure....I'm just a fan...you are one of them, and while I understand where you are coming from, the point about the testing might be a bit over the top. How is your hip coming along....seems like your recent half ironman was much stronger than St. Croix!!!

I'd like to see him go after Hellriegel's monumental record at IMC...now THAT is an amazing record.

I agree sub 8:10 on that course is amazing. As good as a low 7:50 in Roth.. Lieto might have ridden faster but to run well on that hilly course afterwards takes a lot of strength.
And didn't he go for a 100+km ride the next day..
SteveMc

I wonder though, does anyone who goes 8:10 at Canada even stand a chance at winning Hawaii 2 months later? Personally, I think anyone who qualifies at Canada should get deferred entry to Kona to the following year. Especially the pros.

I agree but those were the days when Thomas trained and raced himself sick.
SteveMc

"I'd like to see him go after Hellriegel's monumental record at IMC...now THAT is an amazing record. "
--------------------------------

I believe that it is now Chris Lieto's "monumental record at IMC".

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

Yes, Hellriegel went 8:09 at IMC 1996 and then backed it up with a second overall 8:06 at Kona including a blazing 2:46 run off a 4:2x bike....so perhaps most athletes don't stand a chance, but when you lose to LVL's 8:04 Kona record, that's as good as it gets

Exactly my point too but I've been told my opinion is bollocks. The facts show that when the going get's tough Macca thrives on it, others melt under the pressure.

To me that's a true champion.

Wow....that I did not know. That's crazy!!
I wonder if he was able to tap into a training regime that REALLY worked for him in those two months or if he just got lucky? Either way, that is impressive .

His approach back then was to "train HHHrd, wery hhard"
Lots of 40plus hour weeks which worked for a time and then.. not
SteveMc

Amazingly enough, he posted a career best 4:16 bike at Roth last year....

M~, there was nothing magic in between IMLP and Kona...actually I believe it was his 7th or 8th ironman in a span of ~18 months (Lanzarote-Roth-Hawaii-NZ?-Lanzarote-Roth-IMC-Hawaii). We can confirm once the xtri.com race database is working...seems a bit flakey right now

Do you mean IMLP or IMC ?
Although it isn't nearly the same, I always feel better when I race myself into shape rather than training myself into shape. ;)
Still, how those guys were able to do that to their bodies is truly beyond my comprehension. My little flabby boy body just couldn't take that abuse!
M~

It's his running that hasn't been great recently. Shame as he really was the Ironman personified. Good news is that he's meant to be fit and strong this year.
SteveMc

Man, you're tough. Normann's first DNF came from flat tires. His second came from a stomach virus. I hardly call that "melting under pressure".

I meant IMC

Got IMLP on the brain eh? ;)

Just looking forward to seeing what Normann can do at IMLP....what will be the final pecking order between Hellriegel, Larsen, Stadler and Bjorn as LP Uberbiker????

That will be exciting. Tell you what, I will give you a split time coming up Papa Bear as to where you are with respect to the Normannator. :)

My goal as always is only to get onto run loop 2 before the first pros finish. 2 years ago I was leaving Mirror Lake drive just as Dr. Tommy and Victor came flying up

I'm talking about the real record...the one where you back it up with an awesome run..CL went fast, but nowhere near the 8.09 of Hellriegel

"I'm talking about the real record...the one where you back it up with an awesome run.."
---------------------------------

Ahhhh...my bad.

i guess I have a hard time imagining Normann pulling off a sub 2:50 run after riding a record/near record bike pace in order to go 8:09.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

I'll be cheering for Michael Gohner...I'm interested to see how he'll stack up against Macca. ...and for the AG's, good luck to Team Free Radicals.

I'll be rooting for the "Prince" (Faris) and the "Combine Driver" (Niclas B.)

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
Ruble Racing Events Midwest Triathlon Racing
Ruble Timing Midwest Event Timing

like francois said.... Hellriegal IMC course record is in my opinion the greates ironman performance of the history of the sport. It s simply insane to go this fast on that course.... i really wonder if we will ever see such thing again......


Lieto did put a on a amazing bike split but didnt go anywhere near as fast overall....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

I taught him everything he knows..haha.

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
Florida Triathlon Camps Train in North Americas winter training destination
Ruble Racing Events Midwest Triathlon Racing
Ruble Timing Midwest Event Timing

Sorry...I can't resist...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KXScJSUDPPI

thomas hellriegel is doing really well this year, with some fast bike splits and even solid run performances he never showed since 2002. maybe it's his 2nd little comeback for hell on wheels after his 4th place in kona (2002) and some injuries, that cost him a lot of running abilities.

far time back, 1995 and 1997, hellriegel was not only strong on the bike, he was also able to compete against guys like simon lessing on the short distance (non drafting) ITU races. he lost a little his running skills and speed due his extensive power-oriented bike training...

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kind regards
Kai Baumgartner

...and then back it up 6 weeks later in Kona with an 8:06 with a 2:46 run....likely the greatest back to back IM performances ever. The amazing thing about Hellriegel's time at IMC, is that the pavement was fairly rough for long stretches, and this was on the old slower bike course that brought you back down to OK falls, before returning to town along the run route on skaha...and he had no motorcade to break wind for him like there has always been in Kona or Roth....

Hi M~
Mate did I say he was Juiced up??? Get a life! Drugs are in our sport and he hasn't won in Germany in years!! It's great to see that Ironman German is doing Blood tests and I'm just say he was talking it up in the last Thread on him then all of a sudden he's a DNS!!!
It's all good stick mate so H.T.F.U!!!!

You know what I dont get, just like you said, why come on here and talk and hype up his appearance there with his new bike and everything and then DNS...somethings up, injury sounds like back when I played tennis, a cover up!

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"Fear is what drives you in the last part of a marathon in an Ironman. The body is depleted and the mind is fuzzy. Short course racing is driven by power and finese at the end of a race, Ironman demands so much more and is driven by will and mental strength." Chris McCormack

10/28/08 Dev Paul had 400w FTP!!!

I apologize. But just to clarify, what did you mean by the above statement then?

"It s simply insane to go this fast on that course.... i really wonder if we will ever see such thing again......"
------------------------------------

I totally agree...I can't even imagine how Thomas did that on that course.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

I like Stadler. I think he is very underrated and doesn't get the respect he deserves. But am curious. So come October, will it have been 2 years since Stadler last completed an Ironman? He DNFd Ironman Germany '07 and Kona '07 and now will have DNSd Germany '08. That doesn't seem to bode well for Kona '08.

In all due respect, how come you didn't say anything about any of the Micheal Phelps or Dara Torres allegations made very openly and recently here in several threads? Is it more unfair/inflammatory when someone references a triathlete here on ST?

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"Triathlon is for people who can't handle drugs and alcohol." -IMFL t-shirt

The Dude Abides...

The insinuation is definitely there. Not very professional, but it's your career, huh?

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If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

Did you mean to say YOU were scared of Macca?

If not, you should go post somewhere else, like MySpace or something simpler.

Does Normann need a spot to IM Hawaii ? Or as he is 2x champion, he have spot "forever" ?

Not that I've even needed to look at these rules... but I think it's good for the next year only. Somebody here is bound to know for sure.

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If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

winner are invited to the race for life!

that is why dave scott can show up this year.... and many other pass winnner show up to the race without qualifying...

i think it s a good privilege for winner such race.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

See? I knew somebody would know. I must be thinking of AG winners. Thanks jonnyo!

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If I don't, who will? -Me
It's like being bipolar in opinion is a requirement around here. -TripleThreat

I took that to mean, hopefully he pickup up his number, cause if he did, that would mean, he submitted a test. What Bryan meant, was if he dropped out, after finding out he was going to be tested, it would possibly look like he was hiding something and the accusations would start.

For me Hellriegel's '96 IMC race is the single best IM performance. I don't think anyone will best 8:09 on that course. And yes, his Hawaii bike record finally fell to Sindballe, but if I remember correctly, Thomas would still have it if they included transition time as they did then. Can anyone verify this?

Also, didn't Peter Reid win IMC and Kona back to back one year?

I believe it was the year both he and Lori won

Yes, you implied that.

I would suggest you get your facts straight before you spout off on ST.
If you would have done your homework, you would have come across a snippet stating that he volunteered to get tested even so he will not be racing.

But you are probably mediocre at everything, so no surprise about the half-baked comments and 2nd-grader trash talk.

If you are a sponsored athlete, I bet your sponsors gonna be thrilled about you badmouthing other fellow professional athletes.

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

B honey, you're kind of being a dick.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Well said.

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I know I'm promiscuous, but in a classy way

He wasn't implying anything if you can actually read properly which obviously you can't.

There is no badmouthing going on at all.

Normann hasn't finished an Ironman since....well Kona 2006. He has admitted in interviews he made up the stories about Macca drafting in 2006 just to cause a stir. Do you think that's fair and professional? Well I don't. I think it stinks.

I think you'll find he did plenty of bad mouthing but for some reason none of you ever bring that up as your'e too busy trying to kiss Normann's ass. He was bang out of order plain and simple

Macca had the balls to front him up and Normann has failed to answer - DNF in Kona, DNS in Germany. Simple as that and pretty weak.

And he's disappointed a hell of a lot of people by pulling out of this race. He's good at the talk but it seems Macca is the only one to have the balls to walk the walk.

he was for sure at the pre-competition testing, as all of the attending pros as well. as well they're tested not only right before the race, also during the preparation, starting in early 2008 - "Eiserne Transparenz", "Iron Transparency" with their blood testing methods incl. off-score, etc. is a good move in the right direction...

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kind regards
Kai Baumgartner

i would say the same, because:
1. old (slower) bike course
2. incl. t-times
3. the streets didn't had the new tarmac and pavement big island is now offering to their ironman. it's the same at IM lanzarote. also lot's of improvements on the streets the last 1-2 years...

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kind regards
Kai Baumgartner

   
Thanks Kai
Thats what we wanted to hear!! You were there so would know a lot more than us!I really think this is a great move forward in Triathlon racing!! It's got to be done like this so there is no actuations!!
Cheers

He says on ironmanlive that he's racing in Lake Placid....2 weeks. Lets see if he shows or lets see if his infection clears by then :)

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Eric
Rev3 National Race Director
rev3tri.com

You might want to check CERVELOMAD's profile... His posts contain a disturbing amount of capitals and punctuation, and his idea of trashtalk is more like slander, but it does at least appear that he has something to back it up with!

Still waiting on that clarification

It will be interesting to see for sure. If his infection is so bad that the doctors forced him out of this race how come he seems to know for sure he'll be on the start line at Placid in a mere 2 weeks?

Hardly seems adequate time to recover from something so bad.....

Will be interesting to see who dominates the bike, Normann or Bjorn - I'm opting for Bjorn to hammer it.

If you are who you claim to be I find it quite interesting that the first thing that comes to YOUR mind as professional athlete Mr. Rhodes is that he wants to avoid drug testing.
Would speak volumes about your mindset and your particular concerns when towing the line.
Afraid of getting caught?
Apart from that, if I look what athletes in your corner of the world do to make the sport more transparent when it comes to PEDs, I don't find anything comparable to the voluntary system put into place in Europe, particularly in Germany.

I do think though, that you are not who you claim to be.

And that there should be ramnifications for slandering Mr. Rhodes reputation on this forum.

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

unfortunately, not.

WOW....

and really sad.

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Ego numquam pronuncio mendacium,
sed sum homo salvaticus

Normann Stadler still not back on track: Withdraw IM Lake Placid: http://www.3athlon.de/...nman_lake_placid.php

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kind regards
Kai Baumgartner

What's the last triathlon Normann actually finished?

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"Rock and roll, dude." -- Dave Z., on winning TTs in all 3 Grand Tours.

Well said Dev. BTW it is demoralizing to be passed by someone going 20kph faster than you on the bike!! You tore past me at the start of the bike leg in peterborough. Ouch. ;>

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NCCP certified Comp coach