Ironman Hawaii

only if the race rules prohibit their use.

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"that which does not destroy me will only make me stronger" Frederick Nietzsche
andrew peabody
http://BREAKAWAYMULTISPORT.COM

Ever.

Disk cover at any race that's not Kona, or a hillclimb TT.

Why buy a disk at all?? You can get all the aero benefits for like 10-20% of the cost.

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float , hammer , and jog

I think a disc is always better, but lately I've found that races with very steep climbs can be problematic as the disc flexes more than a good, stiff spoked wheel and can hit the brake pads when I'm out of the saddle, really muscling a climb.

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2015 American Zofingen Du is May 17.
R.I.P. Chris Gleason

I won't use a disc on a hilly course as I find I notice the extra weight vs. my Zipp 404's or Hed 3's.

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Member of the Litespeed Factory Team
www.litespeed.com

If you are considering a disc, there is very little downside ($70-resale if you decide you don't want it) of buying a wheel cover and then going out and riding around the next time it is windy, taking it for some trial runs on some of your local hills to see for yourself.

With a wheel cover, you do lose the flex and brake rub of a real disc, but you have to make sacrifices... ;-)

When do you NOT use a disc?

When I'm not racing.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

For me, for the courses in Southern Ontario I wouldn't buy a disc. I chose to go H3C front & back.

Based on historical HED sales in Canada, I mostly sell discs to TT athletes (Flat out & back).

For Tri/Du customers, for every one disc I sell twenty trispokes or deep rim (=>60mm).

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Paul "Speedy" Gonsalves
http://www.rollingthundercanada.com
RollingThunderCanada

Canadian distributor for HED Cycling, Blue Competition, Akona Biospeed & Aerus Composites

well I will say that a bad time may be in near hurricane conditions. Gusts of 50mph and a steady wind off 35-40mph made for some sideways riding.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

<< With a wheel cover, you do lose the flex and brake rub of a real disc, but you have to make sacrifices... ;-) >>

True that.
Also, you don't get the cool "whoomp, whoomp whooomp" sound like a 'real' disc, but in my mind that's actually better for stealth passes - why let the other guy know yer coming and give him an opportunity to try to accelerate to hold you off?
I'd rather be like a Ninja.

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float , hammer , and jog

I Dont think those disc covers are that great, unless you have a really light wheel to put it on, plus, I would worry about the screws coming loose during a race. I was thinking about getting one, but I got a 575 instead and love it.

when not?: bad roads.

solid discs do not have nearly the vertical compliance as nearly any spoked wheels, so they transmit a lot more road shock to the rider.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Only before I bought one. Since then I use the disk for every race, flat or hilly. If I qualify for Kona, I'll have to rent a set of 606s...

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

I'm racing this saturday, first race of the season. The bike course is 4 loops with some climbing and obviously some descending. The winds are somewhat unpredictable on the course, especially in early spring. I'm also going to be racing for the first time on my new bike which has spent most of the winter on the trainer. While I've used my disc before in some pretty awful conditions, I'm electing to use a 404 rear instead just so I'll be a little more comfortable with the handlding of the bike.

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Jonathan Blyer,
ACME Bicycle Co., Brooklyn, NY

I had the same question so I bought a cover to find out for myself. I ended up riding it all the time. Training, racing, whatever. You'll find people on this board worry about two things a lot.

1) Training on their precious race wheels

2) Being able to handle said wheels in a crosswind.

Well if you can find a way to stop worrying about #1, you'll eventually stop worrying about #2. Every time my tri bike goes out, it goes out with a rear disc cover and 60mm front -- no matter what.

 

When there are lots and lots of turns in the course.
I cannot take a turn nearly as fast on a disk as I can on a spoked rim. There is no flex on a disk so you have a much higher chance of the disc sliding out from underneath you taking corners and turns as you would a spoked rim.

Wheel cover = bento box:)

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I wanna go fast!

Any feeling for how much time you have saved in races since you went to the disc for 100% races. I have lots of hilly courses, so am concerned
with some saying do not use if it is hilly.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Martin is not going to like that relationship. :o)

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Someone posted here a few years ago, that you DO get the whoomp, whoomp......????

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_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

Pretty much every rider at the ToC prologue rode with a disc. The was 1 mile flat and 1 mile straight uphill. Most triathlons have a net elevation gain of 0, so I would say that pretty much every triathlon course calls for a disc as being the fastest option.

The only time when a disk has been proven to be slower than a non disk, based on the studies I have seen, is when its too windy to handle the bike safely, and when the course is virtually exclusively uphill. The various previous posters who cite slow turns, hitting brakepads, and slow climbing on rolling courses are relying on faulty perception, poor set-up (ie widen the pad spacing) or myth.

Styrrell

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Styrrell

 

Perhaps partially true, but you don't see many disc being used in crits... now granted you can draft in a crit, but that doesn't prevent the pro's from using some deep dishes for aero benefits. I would argue that a disc does not handle as well as a spoked wheel due to the stiffness of it. If I was riding a short course tri with some technical turning or even technical descents with lots of switchbacks, I would opt for spoked.

Disks aren't legal for crits in the US. Also even if they were I agree they may be a bad appication, but I still think that they would be a good choice. Look at most mass start pro track races, where fast acceleration is at a premium. Lots and lots of disks (and other heavy composite front wheels.)

As far as a twisty time trial course with lots of accelerations. I believe that a disk will corner slightly slower, but you will get much more back in the straights. Heck way back when world championship mountain bike races were won using disk wheels (nifty trivia)..

Styrrell,

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Styrrell

I am considering not running a disc in Galveston next weekend at Lone Star. The course is right along the seawall, and depending on the direction of the wind, if it is coming straight out of the south, it will be a direct crosswind for 90% of the ride. If that is the case, I will run an 808 in the rear. If it is coming from any other direction, I will go with the disc. Problem is, with the weather in Galveston, may not know until race morning. While I don't know if that is "technically" correct based on the various studies, it is what makes me comfortable mentally.

heh, now that's interesting. I take it they fiberglass encased? I would imagine it would have to have some flex to prevent it from cracking especially on single track.

Don't know if I'm hijacking this thread....

If I put a Wheel cover on my Mavic Cosmic, will I notice any difference?

Note: Cosmic rim depth is 52mm.

Yes, you will go faster :)
Wheel covers offer the same benefits. Some will probably argue slightly less, but if it is, it's negliable in my opinion.

I have never ran a wheel cover so I cannot answer that question. I have raced the disc in every race since I bought the disc. This may be the first done without it.

Unless, like me, you have a beam bike. ;D

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Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

since I got my pretend-a-disk (wheel cover) the only race I haven't used it was Lausanne, 4 laps of a highly technical loop with plenty of ups, downs, and turns. I'm still not sure that was the right decision.

I did not use a disc at the Great Floridian in 2005 because of hurricane wilma.... turned out I probably could have gotten away with the disc.

 

High winds are definately not a joke though. I saw a ~100 lb women get blown off her bike.. well off the course and consequently off her bike at IMAZ in 2005 most likely due to the disc she was riding.

I think your weight should be a factor if your nickname is slim or they call you tiny.

Unless it's a hillclimb TT I always use one...................... ALWAYS !!!

"Any feeling for how much time you have saved in races since you went to the disc for 100% races."
- - When I switched to tubies on Hed 60/90, I picked up about a minute on 40K, as near as I could tell. Some or all of that might just have been ego, because I hate showing up with nice gear and sucking!!
When I switched to the disk, I can't say what the improvement was, because I also got a new bike at the same time and had Chris Kautz do a fitting for me. I dropped close to 4 minutes.
On one race (Napa Half IM) which is really hilly, I used my Trek 5200 because I thought it was better for climbing, although I'd use the TT bike if I did it again. At any rate, having ridden that course a few times before the race, I felt like the disk was probably good for close to 1 mph. But then my Accel disk is lighter than either my Rolf rear training wheel, or my Hed 90.
The bottom line to me is that even if the disk is marginally slower climbing (which I don't believe it is) it's dramatically faster coming down, although it might not handle as well on a highly technical course in the hands of a better descender than what I am... (huh?) IOW, I'm 100% confident that my disk is faster, with the possible exception of the Mt Diablo Challenge, which goes up 3500 feet in 7 miles and doesn't come back down.

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

It was called the Sugino or Tioga tension disk. Basically a kevlar cord woven through a normal rim and hub using adaptors, with a non-structural fiberglass covering which formed the disk. You supply the hub and rim and buy the other stuff for $500 in the mid 80s. It essentially works out to $500 for spokes. Supposed to have some suspension effect, but was anightmare to built and broke pretty regularly. John Tomac and Ned Overend both rode with them. Supposedly Tomac went through more than a dozen one season (yep in 80s over $6000 worth of spokes). That was when he was sponsered by Tioga and winning everything.

For some reason they never really made a big splash in the market place.

Styrrell

I've been watching the major tours for the past 5-6 years. The only time I've seend the pros not use a disk for TT races was a fews years ago when the TT was up Alp D Huez(sp?). Some of the courses have had some technical sections but the disk still rules (remember Rasmussen).



Mike H.

You are probably right, and when it comes down to it, I will probably be on the disk. Don't know if I could actually not race the disk.

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

When you've got a powertap. Then you use a disc cover, or build the wheel into a deep section rim.

Sorry if the question is too off. But if discs are faster than zipps in most cases, why do so many people buy zipps then ? Only for racing
in Kona ?

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"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." Oscar Wilde

I was faced with this the past weekend. I always use the disc (with front tri), as everyone else advocates, however last weekend I raced an OD with what I suspected was going to be a hilly and slightly technical bike course. So I took the matching trispoke rear just in case, and for once in my life drove the course the day before. Turned out that the first 7km was basically 2-3% avg uphill grade, about 2 km were 4-5%. Mid section a bit undulating then down hill (mostly steeper shorter sections than on the way up) then flat again, 2 laps of this.

I had a good think, and decided to go with the trispoke rear (~200g lighter, "feels" nicer handling for me, no good explanation why). I was happy for this decision, and happy with my ride. I'm pretty sure others rode discs, maybe they had no other option, or didn't have a problem with the disc up hills. In hindsight, I'd go trispoke again. I didn't feel disc-induced extra downhill/undulating speed was a concern. If there were no ~5+% sections, just false flats then I would go disc, but for a decent amount of climb then tri/deep rim.

I rode a disc and Spinergy Tilium that year. No issues at all. I considered getting an H3 rear in the weeks before the race, but after riding in gusty 5-20mph variable winds I decided it wouldn't matter. I rode my H3/disc setup last year and will again this year.

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