Compression socks that cost $65, can buy medical grade ones at a drugstore for $20.

Expensive running shoes.

Seriously, I'm a runner-focused triathlete that was a pure runner in my earlier sports life, and I've been gradually transitioning to less and less shoe over time.

I'm now down to using a $19 water shoe (not even a running shoe!) from Amazon.com as my primary running shoe. Really minimalist, cheap as heck, and to my utter surprise, it's holding up surprisingly well (although I'm sure it'll wear out faster than a built up running shoe.)

Also, running with minimalist shoes means you can reallly book it out of the swim to T1 - it feels totally naturally fast when you're adapted to minimalist running, as opposed to the awkward feeling stride you get when you're used to running with a big stack.

Stupid oversize trucker hats.

Have you ever heard of power cranks..........let the fun begin

Hey, the jury is still out on that one.

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

not a fraud -- the concept is good -- but toe spacers. To wear them consistently I'd have to buy all my shoes a size larger.

same deal with the strasburg sock for plantar fasciitis. So hot and itchy I'd claw it off at 2:00 a.m. every night.

Circa 2007-2008 - Base Water. It was, and I kid you not, "just add water water". Supposedly enhanced the "structure" of water - but insulted the intelligence of anyone with a STEM degree (or heck, anyone that got above a C+ in high school chemistry). OH, and like all things that were BS - I believe it was $60 for a bottle.

---

___________________________________
MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

Disc brakes.

---

_______________________________________________

Super bikes

Ironic. They were able to save others but not themselves.

Are they out of business now??? I think a big problem was the switch to press-fit time bottom brackets adding much complexity to make PCs work with the newer bikes.

---

---

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

I agree wearing the Strasburg sock was almost as painfull as dealing with Planter Fascitis!

How so. I must have missed this during my sabbatical from fitness decade

x2

Agreed. Ugly as fuck.

Compression socks - for performance as opposed to recovery - are a fraud at any price.

I saw these at the expo in Penticton and nominate them for this thread. At ~20 mph, they are claiming 5 mins 29 secs off your Ironman bike leg.

http://www.aero-sleeves.com/

Concur 100%

Wow! I've not seen these before. I will say that with the development of trip suits and vortex generators on skinsuits that people may believe these claims.

The claim may be a bit inflated, but the concept is valid. Compare the thickness of your upper arm or calves to the tubes on your bike, and also realize that they are exposed to "clean" air (i.e. not drafting behind other parts of the bike/rider). As for the magnitude of the savings, probably depends a lot on your guns.

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

PRP, prolotherary, chiro, acupuncture, compex.

At the tender age of 20 (around 1984) I had no idea what an ironman was or even a triathlon, but I knew for sure I wanted one of these bad boys:

---

"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I also think the Heather Jackson / Wattie Ink look will burn out fast. Same with the Rapha disaffected millenial cyclist dude with the sleeve tats and 80's porn star stache.

With ears tucked in it..I just don't get it

It protects your head from sunburn.

Get the practicality of during a race, still looks dumb
Have a scroll here;

http://www.triathlete.com/...gas-contenders_61380

Looking dumb and not racing.

I LOVE oversized trucker hats.

  

1) Wide rims
2) Wide tires
3) Pressfit bottom brackets
4) "Recovery" anything -- boots, gloves, drinks......
5) Compression anything
6) Ceramic anything -- except coffee mugs
7) Dimpled anything

---

My latest book: "Out of the Melting Pot, Into the Fire" is on sale on Amazon and at other online and local booksellers

minimalist shoes
maximalist shoes
arm coolers
brain doping
cortisol blocking mouthguard
aero pedals
base salt
Oakley thumps
oval chain rings
aero chain rings
short cranks
power cranks
rotor cranks
compact cranks
oversized derailleur pulleys
beam bikes
most coaches
most bike fitters
total immersion swimming

Good grief, no one has mentioned guys going shirtless while wearing Speedos on the bike and run (or even during the swim for that matter). Thank goodness those days are past.

---

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

Nope, and why? I continue to use multiple times per week. Sure has not hurt my run. I looking forward to seeing the new model they are working on and or have out.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

people can hate on trucker hats all they want. but on a hot day, they are awesome.

i left my hat at home for a race last year. i was frequenting this awesome juice/organic food shop the week leading up to imchoo. i decided i wanted to support them and they only had "trucker" hats. i picked the lightest color one i could buy and realized it was a pretty good hat for racing. the back half was mesh, so i could actually get cold water onto my hair/head. the front 2 panels were a thin foam layer that would retain cold water.

i have since used that hat every race. at first, i was worried i would look stupid, then i thought about the "st hate" i would get. then i realized i don't give a rats ass what anyone on here thinks of me.

not everyone wears a trucker hat for the "look". i know i look stupid in mine, but on a hot day, i'll save 15 minutes or more because i can stay cool.

Ironman

Compression anything really, but they do make me look good

---

http://athleteaudit.com

how do you know that they have not hurt your run?

this is the trainwreck I was hoping for, carry on.

Now comes the inevitable post listing his USAT rankings and run accomplishments. You had to go there.

I'm too cheap to buy one of these so I just cover my mouth with my hand when I run and seem to get the same benefits...

https://www.trainingmask.com/how-training-mask-works

that must be the most aero trucker hat ever to save you 15 minutes on the run

Damn! You beat me to it.

How about (in no particular order):

Ironman tats
Kenny Glah or Kenny Souza (sorry, had to call you two out)
Tri Fed
JDiscs (although I still wish I had one)
Leon's QEM (the race was good, the QEM not so much)

HMMMMM, are you sure?! I sent my cranks back to them for repair in May. I have a confirmed receipt for May 15th. Crickets since then. Multiple emails and ST PM and nothing. Seems to me they are OUT OF BUSINESS or their customer service is worse than another MFG that I know.

Tuck in your ears so you don't get a sunburn

Hello Hydrosloth and All,

The word 'placebo' means .... I will ..... or I shall be .... I shall please ....

As Tug McGraw said ..... 'Ya gotta believe'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11141/

Excerpt:

"The reality of the effect is undisputed."

"The mechanisms of pain amelioration on the battlefield, in acupuncture anesthesia, and with hypnosis are presumably related. Although the mechanisms by which the brain affects the perception of pain are only beginning to be understood, the effect is neither magical nor a sign of a suggestible intellect. In short, the placebo effect is quite real."




So if you can believe in a fads or fraud you've got your game on .......

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Does Lance Armstrong count? Cause he was a triathlete first.

I have one very similar to that on my wrist right now.

---

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Kenny Glah? I would say he has stood the test of time pretty well.

Active.com

Slowtwitch

Carbo loading and Bee Pollen.

Seat shifter was a fad that worked, but was quickly out of favor once 80 degree bikes were the norm.

Rear bladders were around for a bit, until every figured out they were Petri dishes inside after holding all that drink shit leftover in your garage for a couple months.

Day glow clothing was quite the fad in the 80's

Altitude tents also were fashionable for a bit, until most realized that sleeping at 10k to15k feet hurt your recovery and sleep, and really didn't grow many more red blood cells.

Some of the biggest frauds were actual races like Bahamas triathlon and a few others that skipped out on paying prize money after the event was over. A few were not even held(sans refunds of course) I'm sure you all could start a list here on those races in your areas and decades.

But the single biggest fraud in the sport was the JDAVID triathlon team. A team in the 80's of a lot of the best pros of the time, fully funded, huge stipends, first class travel, and all built on the backs of unsuspecting investors who got caught up in one of the largest ever pyramid schemes of the times. Even a lot of the athletes being newly flush in $$ had money invested. Took 6 or 7 years, but the gig was finally up when it was in the 100's of millions. Of course many have now surpassed this fraud, but this one was big for its day, and had a huge triathlon component tied to it. If you can find the book, Captian Money and the Golden Girl, that lays out the whole story and timeline..

What in the absolute F are you even saying here? Ken Glah? He only won a bunch of Ironmans, holds the record for most consecutive Kona appearances (as a pro and amateur) and founded a fantastic tri-focused travel company that makes trips to foreign IMs a piece of cake. What is your (personal) axe to grind with Ken? Because on the merits, you have no place to go here other than an overdue apology.

---

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

pretty sure he's calling out Kenny G for the porn stache. See my o.p.

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

I hope so Hydrosloth. I like your OP and the topic is on point. I hope the poster adds clarity since at least one other responder also took it as a personal jab against Ken.

---

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

What does the typical tri douche look like?

Wears compression socks whilst not in a race?
Wears t-shirts from previous races?
m-dot tattoo?
trucker hat?
oakley sunglasses?
wears newtons or some other 'triathlon' running shoe
if american, talks loudly in an annoying accent?

Di2 gear changing - for those too lazy to move a lever. Doesn't make you go any faster but costs a fortune.

A) That was like $29.99
B) It was the best watch made at the time bar none.

You're calling that a fad and fraud?

Here here!

yea i like the trucker hats, don't see the issue

---

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz

Not a fad or a fraud though, I've been wearing these since 1986. Use it to time all my workouts. Prior to tri I was a "pure swimmer" and hence extremely familiar with the pace clock but even then, occasionally I'd forget where the minute hand was when i started a long-ish swim such as 1000 or 2000 yd swim, so would be uncertain of my actual time. With the Timex, no issue here. I have never bothered upgrading to a Garmin or similar since I am so used to the old Timex. Think i'm on about #20 or thereabouts. Since I have always swum consid more than your typical tri person, the watches wear out every 1-2 yrs.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

This might not be the right thread but can we have a discussion about this? Is it really so taboo to wear t-shirts from prior races? I have so many of the dang things that I might as well use them. I'm not showing off by wearing them. It's a shirt I wear when I just want to get out the door to go run errands or if I'm doing work in my yard.

I don't see it either. Who the heck complains about hats? Seriously.

That guy is clearly an amateur in this area since that is not a real racing suit as real Speedo/Arena/Tyr suits do not let your junk sag anywhere close to that. Also, he needs to shave down to achieve the real swimmer look, at a minimum the chest hair needs to go. Plus he's fat and should be wearing a shirt just b/c of that. However, virtually all women love a well-toned guy in a Speedo at the pool, on the beach, or in a triathlon. Don't be putting the original no-frills tri racing uniform down now. Your basic Speedo is $20-$30 vs your $150-200 "tri-suits" which look kind of ridiculous IMO.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

CurraNZ https://healthcurrancy.co.uk/pages/sport-recovery

You can get the book on Amazon but this NYT article from 1984 tells the story
http://www.nytimes.com/....html?pagewanted=all

---

leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

I'd say they were kind of a fad for non-triathletes in the 80's. Don't get me wrong, I love that old watch. The indiglo was a must!

---

"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

Ah, got ya. I had an IM watch in high school and loved it. High-tech piece of technology back then that I even used for scuba diving.

---

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

If you don't dress like the cool kids, you can't be one of the cool kids. Didn't you learn anything in High School?

Ironman 70.3 World Championships
Newton shoes
Ceramic Speed everything
ART and chiro's in general

Yeah - I pretty much live in old race T shirts when I'm not working, or doing stuff I need to look presentable for - I have more of them than I'll ever need, even after giving dozens and dozens away to charity over the years.
Why would I wear anything else for kicking around the house or whatever?

Compression socks and even more so sleeves, and the shizzit.
I'd never wear them in public (unless I forget to take them off), but they are priceless to me as a chronic mad calf disease sufferer.
I don't think they make me go one iota faster during an actual race, but even if they reduce the chance of another mad calf episode during said race by .01%, then that's worth it to me.
YMMV.

What's totally overrated and overhyped?
The need for hydration and fueling and recovery stuff for EVERY WORKOUT - no matter how short or easy.

Wtf?? You'll live. And probably be faster since you won't be so fat, and so carb dependent.
I routinely train for 1.5-2hrs plus with literally nothing.

A buddy I follow on Strava - avid but mediocre cyclist - aborted a ride the other morning because he forgot his bottle.
It was 5:40am. And like 55 degrees out.

---

float , hammer , and jog

Narrow tires

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Obviously, I touched a nerve. I am very aware of Ken's accomplishments and how great of a guy he is. While he won other numerous Ironman's, he didn't win THE one. Was he over-hyped? I would say that the media did a good job of this. That whole "Beast of the East" also didn't help his cred when it came to day of race either.

CNC cranksets

---

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I had one of those identical watches too... loved the indiglo and mostly playing basketball in those days, had no idea what an "Ironman" was either.

Unidisc covers. I found one that matched my bike though, so I shouldn't complain.

Best watch ever, I started using in the early 90s when I was a runner, then triathlon, and wear it to this day. Not so much looks (which is now probably oudated), but reliability has been the big thing for me. I've used GPS and any other kind of watches for workouts, but keep going back to this one (I now run by feel, using timer, or, if targeting paces, in measured courses with stopwatch, taking splits, etc.). For swimming, I use to wear it at the pool, but I learned from swimmers to take it off and just sit at the side of the pool (if there's no clock, that becomes the clock). Since I started doing that, they seem to last longer, current one is going on 3 years or so.

OMG, I had the top ones on my Haro Extreme mountain bike, and the drop-ins on my road bike back in the 90's. Pretty awesome seeing them again :-)

-Eric

Fad - crossing the finish line with your kids, spouse, significant other, dog, cat, etc. Yes, I did it several times, at the encouragement of Ironman (there was a sign up in the athletic village for this in 2001 IMUSA).

I agree. 10 years we'll look back and laugh at this era of "punk rock triathlon"

Di2 isn't about saving energy not having to flick a lever.

Next thread:

Most ridiculous looking TT bikes.

---

"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

this

---

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Dished wheels

---

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

A bit of insider information here, hopefully I do not ruffle the sponsor and athlete, but I received word that a prominent Canadian Triathlete from Ontario is planning to run a 2:29 at Kona this year. His special weapon - Breathe Right Nasal Strips. Hell, didn't they work for the LAST Canadian to win that little race?

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

arguing campy vs. shimano vs. sram - they're all great and will get the job done just fine, just a matter of preference

agree with 1poseur1 on everything except compact cranks, I think they were a game changer

1st and 2nd year races that charge the same or more $$ as well established races while they work out the kinks

---

Great things never come from comfort zones.

Q: "What do you eat to train for 90-120 mins after work?"
A: "Lunch"

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Yes. And you forgot ultrasound.

Also, I think equipment wise, ceramic bearings are the biggest 'fraud'.

100% with you here. I don't understand this constant need for hydration and fueling. It's like a triathlete can't get through a short 2500yd swim session without a bottle on deck and stopping to sip after every interval. I sometimes bring a bottle onto the pool deck with me when I have a longer session (because everyone makes me feel like I need to), and invariably NEVER touch it. I never feel the need.

Also agreed on any workout <2hrs doesn't require fueling. Longer than that, sure it's worth starting to work on race nutrition. But let's be real here, under 2hrs there is no earthly reason to be carbing up.

There was the day I forgot a water bottle ahead of a planned 1hr ride in cooler weather. My ride partner was aghast that I would consider going without it. I just shrugged my shoulders and said I would get some water when I got home. Sure on a hot day that is a different story but normally it's common for me to finish a ride with the same amount of water in the bottle that I started with.

I agree with you completely. Anything under 2 hours and water should get you through. Assuming you've eating SOMETHING in the previous few hours. I've never understood bringing hydration to the pool. Do you also stop and drink during the race?!?

I thought he wasn't going to Kona, I must have fallen behind on my reading.

Looks like the fad is back. Between Diamondbacks Andean and all the beam bikes. I'll be happy when this new old fad passes.

 Do you also stop and drink during the race?!?

________

And this is why I think that thinking is missing the point. You don't hydrate during workouts just for the workout your in (that's important). It's a totality of hydration that can also set up your workouts the next day and the day after etc. So I'm not saying you need to chug along 3 gus for a 90 min ride, but I think it's foolish for athletes to say they do 2 hours of working out minus any water. But then again, it's what you want to do as an athlete. If you want the most out of your performance, imo you would need to fuel properly throughout training. 2 hours of training with no water or nutrition, cool...good on you. Wouldn't advise it, and I wouldnt say it's not a fad to call that out either.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

No doubt that the placebo effect is real. But, why then devote yourself to BS products/techniques that are yet unproven (or worse, consistently shown to do nothing)? Instead, find something with actual good evidence for benefit, believe in it...then you get double: placebo and actual effects.

...and cupping, physiotape.

I said "anything but water" but I was referering to the <2 hour rides.

My comment about "Drinking during the race" was referring to the swim.

And cold laser, dry needling..

Neon + mullets

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Love that cartoon, but must say I'm on the anti oversized-trucker hat wagon. Nothing against trucker hats in general, but, FFS wear one that doesn't make your head look like a peanut. It reminds me of parents trying to dress like their teenagers in an attempt to look cool.

I wore a leopard print trucker hat that had "BAD GIRL" written across it for a fun sprint race once. Turned out it was super comfortable, so, I kept wearing it out. It got a few laughs here and there.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

That's Punk Rock; in a New York Dolls kinda way

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

and Normatech

Ya, as a swimmer growing up i never wore a watch but now that i've had the Timex many yrs, i like being able to sneak a peak at my split as i'm pushing off from my flip turn. The clock on the wall is often hard to see depending on what lane you're in, sometimes people stand in front of it so you can't see it, etc, etc, etc. With the watch i have every swim timed and recorded for transfer to my log book. I fully realize this is a bit of overkill, i.e. all i really need to time is the occasional time trial but, now that i've gotten used to having this data, it is hard to go w/o it. Also, regarding running, i am exact same as you, running measured courses with no GPS.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Well, he was/is a beast and is from PA. So....

3x IM BRA (non moto assisted), 1x IM CAD, 2x IM NZ, 33x consecutive IMWC finishes, a shitload of wins at every distance. If you know him, he does virtually no training in his old age and can pop off 10hr IMs on a whim. Yeah, totally overrated (!?).

In fact, I think he is underrated – he was absolutely an uber biker although you do not hear him spoken as such. He is not on Monty’s uber biker list for instance.

Lol, I was gonna mention Normatech, but figured I'd get some serious push back!!

Oh, and Cytomax and any other 'lactic acid buffer'....

You don't think that a person can adequately rehydrate in the typical 8-22 hrs between workouts??? Sure if you're doing a long workout, or series of workouts with just an hour or so between each like on a Sat or Sun, I could see the need, but not just for your average weekday workouts. Over-hydrating just makes you need to pee more often.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

A while back I made a "New Years Resolution" to try to hydrate more. All that happened was I needed to pee way more often and I saw no other benefit.

Haha, I was thinking the same, but I have the cheap/knockoff version. I am highly skeptical if there are any medium or long term effects, but "pumpy legs" feels fantastic when sore or tired!

I absolutely think someone can. But I also know how people get with work, and life. Eric, how much have you hydrated this morning? Do you carry water, or do you have water station at work?

ETA: So when I hear an athlete puts off hydration during workout and will hydrate "later", I sorta give that a shoulder shrug...ok tell me when you are. Show me how you are, if you won't do it while your actually working out.

But again, it's all in what you want, and i'm probaly going into much greater detail in the wrong thread, because your probaly snickering this is exactly why it's a fad, etc. So if you only hydrate when it's X intensity or Y duration, good on you. Or if you think average person hydrates after working out much more than they would during a workout, that's fine too.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Ya, i've always thought "Normatech" was a scam. I had completely forgotten about "Cytomax" though, haven't seen their ads in 10 yrs or more.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I had a 20-oz glass of defizzed Coke first thing this morning and have a glass of ice water at my desk all day. (I work at the desk pretty much all day.)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Start a new thread about how much water you drink.

Otherwise, let's keep finding more products that shouldn't be bought.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I always thought Normatech and the other stuff was a waste of money.

Does anyone think Hoka is a fad?

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

In the late 80's there was a device that you tied around your waist and then attached the other end to the top of your head set.

Only lasted a year I believe before they were banned!

I thought it was until I tried them.. now I don't anymore which I hate because they are expensive and, well... ugly imo.

But ugly-expensive-works is the trifecta for a great product. If you have any two without the third, people are nowhere near as interested. But have all three and people become entranced. Ugly gets your attention, expensive makes it exclusive and perceived as high quality. And ugly also sometimes nails fashionable and daring. Last comes works. If it doesn't work, you won't have people for long. But damn, you can really pull in the suckers with ugly and expensive first until they find out it doesn't work.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

I think they are ugly as sin and their toe box might be the worst shape for me, but the shoes are just so comfortable.

As other companies replicate Hoka's design strategies, Hoka's popularity will inevitably fade. If they can maintain as a niche company will depend on how efficient their business model is and if people keep choosing their $150 shoes over others' $150 shoes. That is yet to be seen.

---

Oui, mais pas de femme toute de suite (yes, but I am not ready for a woman straight away) -Stephen Roche's reply when asked whether he was okay after collapsing at the finish in the La Plagne stage of the 1987 Tour

Yes.

Love your trifecta analogy. I would add that ugly + expensive is a signaling mechanism that demonstrates loyalty to the tribe.

Isn't this just a slightly more specific version of this thread?

Most of you sound like a bunch of grumpy old men complaining about other grumpy old men being grumpy old men.

Carry on.

---

Brian

you may be right. but you shouldn't shortchange the remarkable ability for other footwear brands to stubbornly, obstinately refuse to acknowledge or even to understand the hoka phenomenon. and that includes hoka, btw. with an almost 100 percent management turnover over the past 2 years i'm not sure the current hoka management understands why its shoes took off like a rocket in popularity. (one day hoka's mgmt will return a phone call of mine and then i can talk to them about it and report back to you what they say.)

if hoka does fade it won't (my guess) be because other companies have made the enterprising decision to understand and adopt hoka's unique design elements, but because hoka's management fails to understand and continue to produce elements in its shoes that were responsible for its original success.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

reading the opinions of 11hr ironman racers on the silly, ridiculous, nonsensical habits of 8hr ironman racers?

i love you all! i love us all! just, one thing i've noted in 18 years of running an internet site is how devastatingly smart we all are! and how devastatingly insipid the behavior all those are who are 30 percent faster than we are!

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Total Immersion Swimming
Spin Like Lance (90+ rpm) to win at triathlon!
Powercranks
Heart Rate Monitors
Stretching (includes Yoga)

And I know they are quite useful, but most people do not need a fucking power meter. They're like heroin to data junkies.

Biggest Fraud?

Julie Miller, without question

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I've met many a pro who are clueless snake oil chasers. Many are fast in spite of, not because of their choices...

Clearly you have never been to Jacksonville Beach, Fl.....moved out of that sh*thole and it was the greatest decision of my life haha

previous iterations of this discussion:

- carbon. can you believe it? plastic bikes? steel is real.
- 9 speed. who needs all those gears? fad!
- aerobars. cycling is cycling.
- steep seat angles. cycling is cycling.
- electronic shifting. if you can't shift, you're beyond help!
- wetsuits. if you're a good swimmer wetsuits slow you down.

that's not to say there aren't good examples of fads. but two-thirds of the examples in this thread are poor examples.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

in that case, imagine how much faster than you they really are.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Punk poseurs will always fucking fold

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

This hydration topic is regarding the fact that it is a myth/fraud that a person has to drink all the time during even short workouts. Examples have been given of guys aborting 1-hr bike rides in 55* weather due to forgetting their water bottle, and of tri-swimmers feeling the need to take a drink after every 100 yd repeat. Not all fads and frauds necessarily involve buying things.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I seriously wish my bikes had 4 gears total in the RD and 2 up front, with similar overall range as a 12-25 standard cassette.

The indexing would then be dead-perfect with minimal adjustment, since the jumps are big enough to deal with small cable loosening and wear on the chain/cassette. I'd also hope that the cost of components could decrease as the engineering needed for 4-sp indexing should be less precise than 11-spd, but I suspect they'd still charge crazy prices just because they could.

So really you're describing an 8-speed bike; just add 1 more in the back and you have the classic "10-speed" from the 70s/80s. The more things change, the more they remain the same. :)

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

salt sport products, been scientifically debunked for years

Yep, I would definitely prefer simpler, older-school setups.

Shimano's 9 vs 10 vs 11 spd stuff is ridiculous at how overcomplicated they make things. I would seriously run Shimano Sora on my tribike except for the fact that the bar-end shifters aren't compatible with it - had Sora on my road bike and it was great.

I have a lot of triathlon gear ,but I still believe in minimizing the BS gear if at all possible. And I've learned that whenever you 'upgrade' something, better make sure it's well worth the cost as that 'upgrade' often comes with its own set of new headaches and maintenance schedule.

why not go with a 1x setup for your bike? simplicity is nice but I've never had major issues with my 10/11 shimano so I'm happy to stay with them.

I'm actually considering a 1x setup. The main reason I haven't done it is because I've had few/no problems with my FD, but I'd seriously consider it for the future.

Sunglasses- $0.09 of plastic, sold for $150.00.

I ride where it's totally flat so it's definitely doable for me but I don't want to change for the sake of changing since my bikes my road/gravel/tri bikes all of shimano 105 derailleurs so I'll keep running those until they no longer work

beautiful, thank you.. the Tinkerbell effect, clap harder for performance gains.. and it actually works, at least until the injuries come..

my picks - POSE ® running, barefoot running, minimalist running shoes
however hard you believe, reality will eventually catch up..

works is the only thing that matters. Ask any old runner.
ugly is in the eye of the beholder, I think my Hokas are beautiful beyond compare since they let me run.
expensive only if you pay retail for current year product, I get mine from REI Garage when they close out last years' models.

i'm waiting for somebody here to list 1x as a fad.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

yeah. I often load up on my sneakers from runningwarehouse getting last year's model. and there are always discount codes. I've gotten most of my hoka's for $50-$60

Not sure if this isn't the "Bad Advice Thread" in disguise. . .

Not all snake oil makes you slower, it just lightens your wallet.

Imagine how much poorer they really are.

I once told D'Wife that I save money on shoes by buying discontinued models

"What does 'discontinued' mean?"she asked
"Means they don't make replacement parts for them anymore"

I could see the wheels in her head spinning as she tried to figure that one out

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Done.

In the process of ditching mine. Caveat, using a track crank and not a narrow / wide, but I felt like the upsides weren't enough to overcome the risk of a dropped chain.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

okay, but here's an analogy of what you've done: you tied yourself with ropes to the seat in your car, and you're calling seat belts a fad because your experience with your home made seat belt is not worth the risk.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Don't think pricing is an example of a useless fad or fraud. OK.......-maybe- fraud?? But that could apply to all triathlon products... :)
And I'm happy to pay for Oakley's, no company has yet to match their design/quality in the past 25-30 years.

If 1x works well in cross and mtn biking (much more difficult use cases) , I am sure a TT bike isn't going to be much of a challenge. I might to pay to retro fit a bike, but for a new one- why not.

Not really. I know the limitations of my setup, it was mostly a proof of concept exercise to see if it was worth pursuing. For me, on my bike, my riding style, and my local geaography, that's a no.

Fwiw, in a different place and for a different purpose, I ran 1x8 about 17 years ago on my original p2. Worked fine for that. But it has a time and a place.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Love my Newton shoes.

And I would vote for Hoka shoes here though! :D

You are so correct and I totally forgot that part. Essentially, people are afraid to admit they are wrong. And the more you get them to commit or buy in at first, then they develop a tribe around it that only they can see value in. Everybody else looks at it like it's stupid, but they don't have the ego's "sunk cost" into it, so they can admit it's a bad idea. If you wear your pants backwards, then you're part of the Criss-Cross club. Now it's totally stupid and nonfunctional, but it shows you're committed to the group. And then the group will back you up as your tribe in a time of need. It's totally bizarre shit, but happens all the time. So the more ugly and expensive something is, the more they've committed to the tribe (and afraid to leave, too). It makes them feel good and makes others want to join that tribe to feel the same "belongness", but to do so, you gotta be brave and buy in, which makes the tribe exclusive.

Basically, we are all monkeys pulling on our groins and screaming at the eclipse.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

okay, but what you wrote was, "the upsides weren't enough to overcome the risk of a dropped chain." there are no dropped chains using narrow-wide CRs and a clutch RD. so, if you think it's a fad for a different reason, okay. just, is it possible somebody using the correct equipment, not living in your geography with your body and your riding style on your bike might find it useful? if so, is it possible there's merit to the tech?

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Thats what I get for posting incomplete thoughts from my phone. Point understood. And yes, there are potential use cases where it makes sense.

Where the "fad" comes in is when it is adopted because it looks cool without regard for how much (or little) advantage it really is.

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

In my mind Base Salt is the biggest ripoff going right now. $30 for a small tub of kosher salt? You have to be kidding me!

Fad...Bikestream hydration bladder and Profile Piggy BACK & Exceed sports drinks.

Oceanside 70.3 - think it was 2006 or 2007 - some dude in the expo was selling special wristbands with magnetic fields that made you stronger and gave you better balance.

And oh yeah - another vote for those stupid trucker hats!

Oh geez, cant believe I forgot this:

Halo Neuropriming!!!

GPS bike computers.

B/c wheel magnet computers are for dinosaurs..

(But if you really want your GPS computer to be accurate --> you'll need to buy the optional wheel magnet.)

Strava.
Swim HR chestband. Uncomfortable as hell but at least you know you didn't experience cardiac arrest at your last pool workout.

Ha! I remember that guy. He demonstrated to the crowd this "field" & clearly made faces like it was harder effort pushing my arms down with the bracelet on. In reality, there was much more effort placed with the bracelet off. It was a joke. I even told him so.

Ben Greenfield and almost anything he promotes

Just saw an ad for Halo Sport come up on my facebook feed. I think Facebook knew I was following this thread.

In time, Halo Sport will be added to our list (me thinks)

---

Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

Looks like a bunch of crap..Neuropriming..next

Can't argue with that, kinda like people buying Macs because Windows sucks so bad then they install windows on a Mac.

Hello dfroelich and All,

Fads and Frauds are getting beaten to death here ..... some of us have to give them a helping hand ...

What would life be without fads and frauds?

And when is a fad just the first sign of life for a new trend?


How are you going to get on the bleeding edge without buying into a few fads?

And how about the wilting and blooming of fads and frauds?

Will fallout shelters rise a again?

http://www.neatorama.com/...at-swept-the-nation/

I have to leave now to check on my pet rock.

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Swim goggles! When I got out of the pool and couldn't see I used that as an excuse to not do my homework.

Such as the squatty potty. :)

For those of us who don't pay much attention to bike gear, but will some day possibly upgrade, can you explain what a "narrow-wide CR" is, and also what a "clutch RD" is??? I could Google but i suspect you could provide a better explain. Are you saying that the 1X set-up pretty much eliminates dropped chains altogether, even on the rear derailleur???

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

But goggles are hardly a fad or a fraud as they are standard equipment for virtually all swimmers.

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

...you missed the joke.

I love running with my Boco Gear technical trucker hats, but those hats actually fit my head. I also think that West Coast Gangsta wannabe look with the flat brim and big size that it hangs loose over the ears is a bit sad looking. But that is really not a triathlon specific thing anyhow.

I have to leave now to check on my pet rock. //

It is probably under your cabbage patch doll, right next to the hula hoop over by the yo yo. If not there try the sea monkeys in the aquarium next to the chia pet...

Cast aluminium bike frames.

I was going to say profile 2 bars, but I really liked mine.

Can't remember for sure, was it straining or rinsing cottage cheese that some fairly well known ironathlete used to do?

Hate to break it to you but hula hoops and yo yos are still going strong!!

Was that ever a fad or just a myth that he got tagged with?

---

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

yes, it's just about impossible to drop a chain on a 1x, to the point where if you ride 1x on any kind of bike in any terrain (cross, cobbles, offroad) you can't drop it. here's a 1x bike i just built up. that RD is a clutch RD (keeps the chain slap and vibration to a minimum) and the chain ring has teeth that alternate narrow and wide, and it grips the chain hard.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Is that the stuff Pete Jacobs does in weight training?
I like Pete. But I remember watching that video when he goes a little crazy before a weight set. I recoiled at wtf was going on

Thanks very much Dan!!! I appreciate your "humoring me"!!!

---

"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

How out of touch am I riding a Dimond with aero rotor QXL rings, on short 160mm rotor cranks and oversized derailleur pulleys getting off to run in Hoka Clayton shoes. How dudded do I feel now sigh...

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=xuaza&s=9

Hula Hoops? Yo-yos? What's next, kung fu? Skateboards?

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

girlfriends....

yea sounds like a great idea until they get mad you train, don't eat out, stray away from booze, are always tired, don't want kids, get mad at long run and ride days, hate you buying expensive gear, don't like your smelly shoes, want to stay out late, always smell of chlorine, always sore.

this will be the biggest fad once men wise up and realize they can pay for love - at about the cost of a new pair of Hoka's

Bonus points for a neon paint scheme. You are the Triathlon King. Put a copy of this picture away in a time capsule to be opened in 2040. You will thank me.

How are we this deep in a thread about frauds and nobody's mentioned the IronCowboy yet?

---

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

FWIW, I had Julie Miller at Post #123

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Biggest fraud?

posts like this...........

"So, what's the water temperature, currently? I'm REALLY hoping for a non-wetsuit swim"

Sleeved swim skins

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Salt products are hardly a fad, and because they actually DO work for many people (for whatever reason) you will see them around for a long, long time regardless of the "science". Your comment reminds me of a section in Macca's book, "I'm Here to Win", when he finally learned how to handle the heat at Kona after he quit listening to the so-called scientists and instead listened to other athletes who had found what worked in practice. I will go further and say that for some people, the scientific suggestions to avoid salt products in hot weather endurance racing goes beyond mere quackery to dangerous medical advice.

That said, the pricing of some salt products does approach fraudulent.

That was a good call, but Finman, T3 Girl, Amy Stretton, etc. are all in the running too.

To my knowledge, they didn't get features in the New York Times, so that gets Julie on the top of the podium [so to speak]

YMMV

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

carbon fiber seatstays on aluminum bikes
expensive and heavy entry to mid level complete wheelsets
optimization of weight (non rotating) over aero.
anyone ever test out a BMX helmet vs. the first run of aero road helmets?

I really hope jawbreaker sunglasses are a fad...

Don't forget Lance Armstrong.

Coated chain ring teeth and cassettes to reduce friction

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Well, you've got a point there but if news publicity is the standard then Mike Rossi has got to be in the running as well with several articles in the Philly press.

But I give you Kip Litton whose duplicity was unparalleled and earned him this feature article in the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/...2/08/06/marathon-man

Julie Miller may be the biggest fraud in triathlon, but if we cast our net a little wider to endurance sports in general, I think Kip Litton is the King of Cheaters!

Serious question. What is fraudulent about IronCowboy?

Litton. 'nuff said

He uses an elliptical for the run part of an Ironman.



To add to this thread, compression socks. How many races did Andy Potts lose by seconds when he could have skipped putting on those silly socks?

Yeah, but he got paid to wear them...probably a lot more than he lost in prize money. I recall when triathlon compression socks first came out (as opposed to medical compression), and I'm pretty sure it was Potts who said he would never use them ... unless the pay was right. Apparently it was.

Having to have a USAT membership to race! Pointless.

So..........are you saying that CNC cranksets were a good idea then?


..........But they broke in the middle of races.....

Stephen J

---

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

That's not pointless at all.

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

are you asking me whether i think every manufacturing idea in history was a good one?

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I agree

To create a fictitious race, and then to create an entire online presence for that race, including a results sheet, populated with fictitious participants, is a level stratospheres above and beyond the kind of nonsense Mike Rossi was up to after his antics at VIA and the Turkey Trot

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Anyone mention Ben Hobbs / Therealstarky yet? For biggest fad, obviously.

HAHA. I did not know that.

Huge fad but not a fraud since everyone else was doping.

Biggest fraud? I'm gonna say "Fill in the blank" "elite" triathlon team...where you pay retail to wear our stuff and promote our brand...provided of course you post on Facebook 19 times each quarter

Most useless product? Beet juice...or perhaps Endurox R4

Most ridiculous service offering? Any coaching service with more than 1 price and attention level...silver, gold, platinum, yada...."$1000 per month with 2 phone calls each day with Coach Justin" (who completed 2 IM races in 12 hours each)

Most stupid mistake almost everyone including me makes and still makes: using sleeved wetsuits in any race over 70 degree water temp

---

Coach at KonaCoach Multisport

You must believe in miracles.

Yeah, I fell for that many times, but after burning up in my full in a one barely wetsuit legal IM, I set 70 as my new benchmark. At Penticton last month, I used a sleeveless when the vast majority were wearing fulls...water was about 71 and I felt so much better. A full is not faster when you are getting dehydrated in warm water.

Did we do Vibram Five Fingers Yet? Or more specifically racing in Vibram Five Fingers?

Slowtwitch, I'm kidding btw.

everything else has been listed, so why not slowtwitch!

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I raced the Cross Tri at Penticton when ITU said the water temperature was 22.2C non-wetsuit swim. I SURVIVED without my wetsuit! So, I'm going to Chattanooga now with a peace of mind.

Carbon

and hey dont hate on Trucker hats ---- you know why trucker hats came back into fashion? Because for a while there, every hat in the 2000s was so low profile it was like a yamaka with a brim on it.

---

Want: 58cm Cervelo Soloist. PM me if you have one to sell

Vintage Cervelo: A Resource

 

Hello Shambolic and All,

That pic is so cool it make me want to go out an buy one ..

(A small piece of sponge rubber in the gap between the top tube and stem would be nice ..... )

Well done!

You could start a fad!

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=xuaza&s=9

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

https://www.dimondbikes.com/product/aero-box/

For $140, Dimond will sell you one

---

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Hello BryanD and All,

Ouch!

But indicates the visual and aero gap has been noticed .... he said .... attempting to be optimistic .....

Filling that gap is a trend not a fad in my view .... and I will quit here before I put my foot in my mouth.

---

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

No; more of a statement about the boutique billet Al CNC cranks that were made back in the early - mid 90's that often broke. Even a hack such as myself figured that out pretty fast.

Stephen J

---

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2

Lol I posted because it seems I'm living with all the fads and now I could be responsible for starting one. Oh the irony. How about looking as cool AF when racking your bike as a fad?

My previous Dimond features under #10 complete with stem/frame spacer.

https://www.trizone.com.au/20161109/10-reasons-why-you-should-buy-a-dimond-bike/

They fit the Brilliant not the Marquise. I had one on my old Brilliant.

Did you just describe yourself "as cool AF?"

He says "fuck" a lot so you know he is cool, yo.

I quoted myself as looking as cool AF.

i consider the machined crank era the bike industry's version of the leisure suit era. i was a bike maker right in the center of all of that. there was a way to do it: smack the billet it with a forging press first, and then machine it. unfortunately a lot of crank makers (and pedal spindle makers, etc.) neglected that first part of the process.

not the industry's finest hour.

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I remember a training partner receiving titanium bidon cage screws as gift when buying some other bike equipment. We laughed about it but a week later when out riding, I asked her "You put them on your bike, didn't you?" She replied with a sheepish yes.

Some of the revolutionary things promoted in the tri mags of the mid '80s were hilarious, even at the time. The one I wish I had bought were tinted swim goggles that had vents on the side. You would open the vents after the swim to allow airflow on the bike and run, where they doubled as sun glasses. Apparently saved masses of time in transition.

Not sure why they didn't catch on.