Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?)

Sep 18, 06 5:28

Post #1 of 21 (3104 views)

Hi All �

Just raced in the pinebarrens triathlon this weekend. Ugh. Potential there for a good race, but this just left a bad taste in my mouth.

It was advertised as a half iron � or, while I don't think they used the term 'iron,' it was advertised as 1.2/56/13.1. I'd been planning on doing an end of the season half iron, and chose this one � it was relatively close to home (philly) and it was on Saturday, which is better for me.
Last week I wrote in about the 'change' in the bike course to a 49-mile course. The thing is, I'm not sure it was a change. Oh, and it was a 46+ mile course, not 49, as the email had said - and nothing makes me think that it was ever going to be anything else.
My feeling is, there's nothing wrong with a 1.2/46/13.1, but don't advertise it as something it isn't.
And, if the weather had been better, I'm told the run course would have been really nice. (My gf checked out the original run course while I was biking; very nice, she said, but somewhat flooded out). So they went to the back-up run route, which wasn't that nice, but I understand.

They had 2 mile markers � a sign that said "5 miles" and another that said "8 miles."
Which they put at around 6.5 miles, and around 9.5 miles. Somehow, we were supposed to know to add 1.5 miles.

And then the run, as well, was around 1.5 miles short! I talked to a guy afterwards who ran with a forerunner who confirmed that. I hadn't known how short it was, just that I can't run 13 miles in 1:35. And I really can't understand why it was short. The run was an out-&-back where the turnaround was just a u-turn on a long road that kept going. It would have been easy to go out another .75 miles. I'm also not sure why they put the two water stations where they did, 1 at the turnaround point and one near the start/end of the run, where they weren't as helpful as they could have been � but I think that bothered a lot of people more than me.

Ugh. Frustrating.

I'm pleased with my times. I was at around the goal paces for the bike and the run and went under 2min/100y on the swim (pb at any distance). The lake was nice to swim in, the people were nice. And, of course, there's nothing wrong with a 1.2/46/11.5 triathlon. But I can't excuse lying in the advertising. And, well, I have a hard time with the lack of general competence involved in putting mile markers that far off, and making the run that short.

Oh well. It's my fifth tri, and first experience like this. Maybe I've been lucky on the first four, and this sort of misrepresentation is typical, but I hope not.

-Charles

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 5:55

Post #2 of 21 (3072 views)

You can't spell Pine Barrens without PR!

I think we called it before the race - the fact that it would be difficult for them to add miles on the bike. Their square course is great, but not flexible. I've done maybe 5-6 of their races and I love how low key they are. Your point is right on - they had to have known that the course wouldn't be near half-iron. So why advertise as such?

I don't think they have posted results -- how many people raced on Saturday?

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 6:51

Post #3 of 21 (3018 views)

http://www.active.com/...1_20060916025634.txt

They post on Active first, then eventually update their our site a few days later.

Slower than U

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 6:54

Post #4 of 21 (3012 views)

I've done a few of the Pine Barrens races and wouldn't expect the distances to be accurate. Last weekend for the Oly they announced that they had extended the run to 7 miles, just before we got in the water. I just laughed - what can you expect with this loose organization? The Oly swim seemed really long, though that could be because the turnaround was so shallow. I'm not at the point in my racing career where a HIM seems like an easy thing to do, so I'd want a lot more support than the Pine Barrens org seems willing to provide at this point.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 7:00

Post #5 of 21 (2993 views)

[reply]You can't spell Pine Barrens without PR!

I think we called it before the race - the fact that it would be difficult for them to add miles on the bike. Their square course is great, but not flexible. I've done maybe 5-6 of their races and I love how low key they are. Your point is right on - they had to have known that the course wouldn't be near half-iron. So why advertise as such?

I don't think they have posted results -- how many people raced on Saturday?[/reply]

steve, i think that just under 100 people raced on Saturday.
I can see why you'd like the races, since (if i remember from the last thread) you live right by there. it's a nice spot, too. i find that i prefer small, low-key races. but there's a line somewhere between "low-key" and lazy, and those guys seem to be tip-toeing that line.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 7:05

Post #6 of 21 (2981 views)

Why do I like the Pine Barrens races? A big reason is the fact that they are within 10 minutes of my home. I also like their timing (either kick off or wind down to a season). I'm also always riding on those roads. These are low-key races. In an age where many RD are in the sport for money, the Pine Barrens RD puts on these races for a charity (I believe it is a school).

I know what I'm getting with these races - a poorly measured draft fest that usually ends with a run in deep sand. With that said, I think the half-ironman might have been too much of a reach (not too different than when Seaside Heights went to a half ironman in the early 90s. It was just too much to take for a great race).

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 7:10

Post #7 of 21 (2972 views)

In Reply To:

(not too different than when Seaside Heights went to a half ironman in the early 90s. It was just too much to take for a great race).

I remember pleading with the RD at that race one year to cancel the swim (and I'm a good swimmer): cold, fog, huge current. He was gonna lose people that day. He canceled.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [klehner] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 7:16

Post #8 of 21 (2959 views)

That was Eddie O'Kinksky? (or something like that)? I remember that he was a good guy who put on a great race (especially when it was part of the Penn-Jersey series and was a sprint).

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 7:17

Post #9 of 21 (2958 views)

Before I moved from NYC, I did two Pine Barrens fall "oly" tris and I loved them. Low key, Saturday, beautiful area, fast bike, and good competition. The distances, or course for that matter, were never the same and I'm not surprized. I'd be a little ticked if I paid big bucks for the race, but if I recall it was relatively cheap.

I think the race caters more to Philly folks, but it was still accessible to the city.

I wonder if the "1.5/56/13.1" will be around next year. I think they should just make it a double oly.

3k/80k/20k

I doubt it.

----------
Fortitudine Vincimus

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 8:14

Post #10 of 21 (2916 views)

[reply]

I know what I'm getting with these races - a poorly measured draft fest that usually ends with a run in deep sand. With that said, I think the half-ironman might have been too much of a reach (not too different than when Seaside Heights went to a half ironman in the early 90s. It was just too much to take for a great race).[/reply]

i hope they don't try to do this race again. if it had been clearer from the start that it would be a "poorly measured draft fest" i would have felt better goign into it... but it just seems more and more clear that they knew it was a 46 mile bike leg that they advertised as a 56 mile bike leg. i'll chalk the short run up to confusion/cluelessness etc. but i just don't see any sign that there was ever going to be a 56 mile bike course.

and actually, i didn't see that much drafting.
i did see a lot of people with aerobars not using them. not sure what to make of that. in some cases it was people with road bikes who'd added on some aerobars, and i could imagine that they hadn't practiced much with them. many other people were riding tri bikes, though, and seemed to be spending a lot of time on the bullhorns.
good mix of people at the race, though.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 8:27

Post #11 of 21 (2894 views)

Sounds like par for the course with those races.

I did the Olympic a few years ago, figuring that since it's their 20th year running it, it'd be a good race.

Unsecured transition
Registration started ~45 minutes late, delaying the start by over an hour.
Draft fest on the bike (no marshalls)
Run course that was over seven miles

That was my first and last race by that organization. I'd heard about their "half-iron" race and laughed my ass off thinking about how far off the course would be.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike R

Software Engineer and Mac geek
Aspiring to be front-middle-of-the-pack in 2010.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 8:36

Post #12 of 21 (2871 views)

I agree, just call it the distance that it is. I think that RDs are so caught up with calling something a "Half" that they don't care if the course is short or long. Last year I did a "half". At the race meeting the day before the race, the RD told us that the bike course was 53 miles. Okay. Then on race day it turned out to actually be 51.5. What the hell?

Congratulations on a good race.

-C

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 8:40

Post #13 of 21 (2864 views)

In a way, I am glad to hear about the frustration. I had considered signing up, then decided not to based on my experience with them a couple years ago. The run was in deep sand on a course that required you to step into a pot hole then over a bush, etc. That's fine for Xterra but I am not into that. I did the Delaware Diamondman (great race BTW) but I wanted to do another race before I switched to marathon training. That run and that organization was enough to keep me away.

Thanks for sharing your feedback on the race--I thought my experience must have been a fluke. I would love to see more halves in the Philly area (especially in late Sep/early Oct) but poor organization can make it worthless.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [CCF] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 8:51

Post #14 of 21 (2842 views)

Yep, I know of one RD that even though I bought him multiple data points that his advertising of distances were off, his attitude is racers dont care. Another reason I quit being co RD.

Dave

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [RandyS] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 8:58

Post #15 of 21 (2828 views)

[reply]In a way, I am glad to hear about the frustration. I had considered signing up, then decided not to based on my experience with them a couple years ago. The run was in deep sand on a course that required you to step into a pot hole then over a bush, etc. That's fine for Xterra but I am not into that. I did the Delaware Diamondman (great race BTW) but I wanted to do another race before I switched to marathon training. That run and that organization was enough to keep me away.

Thanks for sharing your feedback on the race--I thought my experience must have been a fluke. I would love to see more halves in the Philly area (especially in late Sep/early Oct) but poor organization can make it worthless.[/reply]

oh man... that hurts...
i went back and forth btwn diamondman, the one up by quakertown, and this one. i actually signed up for diamondman last year, but couldn't compete in it because i blew my knee out last august.
i went with the NJ one this year largely because it was on a saturday. but in a lot of ways i wanted to do diamondman the most, it sounded really nice. also, i guess that after i signed up, the race in quakertown switched to a saturday!

glad to hear that diamondman is good; maybe i'll try to do it next year. be nice if the colonial one happens, too.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 9:35

Post #16 of 21 (2766 views)

I live ~20 miles from the Quakertown half venue. However, I saw that it was the first time that organization ran that race so I stayed away. I am irked and perplexed as to why Quakertown and PB decided to have their halves within 1 week of each other especially with Diamondman being the same day as Quakertown. I love the HIM distance but there is nothing between early May and early September in the Philly/NJ area. Then 3 halves are on 2 consecutive weekends. No wonder Quakertown only had 60 athletes (they also charged $70 more than Diamondman). I hope they all learn their lesson for next year.

One note about the Diamondman bike course--watch out if it rains as they have a dangerous metal grate bridge that is like ice (with metal spikes) when wet. Several racers went to the hospital in April/May after a few crashes during the Brandywine Duathlon which crosses the same bridge. Maybe they will spread out some indoor/outdoor carpeting if the conditions warrant.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [RandyS] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 9:51

Post #17 of 21 (2742 views)

[reply]I live ~20 miles from the Quakertown half venue. However, I saw that it was the first time that organization ran that race so I stayed away. [reply]

-makes sense. it's too bad q-town was so small, though. i'd like to see them rethink it somehow, and probably reschedule, as opposed to just giving it up.

[reply] I am irked and perplexed as to why Quakertown and PB decided to have their halves within 1 week of each other especially with Diamondman being the same day as Quakertown. I love the HIM distance but there is nothing between early May and early September in the Philly/NJ area. Then 3 halves are on 2 consecutive weekends. [reply]

true that. it'd be nice to have something in between.
what's the early may HIM? is it near here? that could be something to keep in mind for next year.

-charles

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 10:06

Post #18 of 21 (2724 views)

In Reply To:

[reply]I live ~20 miles from the Quakertown half venue. However, I saw that it was the first time that organization ran that race so I stayed away. [reply]

-makes sense. it's too bad q-town was so small, though. i'd like to see them rethink it somehow, and probably reschedule, as opposed to just giving it up.

[reply] I am irked and perplexed as to why Quakertown and PB decided to have their halves within 1 week of each other especially with Diamondman being the same day as Quakertown. I love the HIM distance but there is nothing between early May and early September in the Philly/NJ area. Then 3 halves are on 2 consecutive weekends. [reply]

true that. it'd be nice to have something in between.
what's the early may HIM? is it near here? that could be something to keep in mind for next year.

-charles

NJ Devilman (Piranha Sports).

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 10:06

Post #19 of 21 (2720 views)

NJ Devilman in May--swim sucked though so I don't plan to do it unless the swim venue is a slightly better mud hole. Next year, I plan to do the Kinetic half in April or the Whitelake in May (in NC?). Look on www.trifind.com for specifics.

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 10:46

Post #20 of 21 (2691 views)

after I did the sprint in May, no way would I patronize another of his races. good that he raises charity money, but after the 5 or 6 years that he has been putting on races, organization sucks, course marking sucks, food sucks, shirt sucks, etc.

and I bitched about the two mile 9s and post race food at Diamondman

nice guy, though, and a great location and lake

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Pinebarrens 70.3� er, 63.3. Make that 60.3. 59.5? (wtf?) [Bob Loblaw] [ In reply to ]

Sep 18, 06 12:02

Post #21 of 21 (2644 views)

At last year's Olympic distance race, I think I went a 35 and change there last year for a 10K in soft sand... PR by over a minute. I think there should be more races out there that are shorter than they claim. It's a good confidence boost.

_______________________________________________________
John Kenny, Pro Triathlete, USAT Certified Coach - http://www.frenchcreekracing.com
Philly Masters and Open Water
Swim and Multisport Events

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