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African American
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First A story.

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The Omaha suspension of a white high-school student originally from South Africa is sending shock waves across America as debate rages over who can claim rights to the term "African-American."

The case centers on Trevor Richards, a junior at Westside High School, who moved from Johannesburg to Nebraska six years ago.

Richards and his classmates, 16-year-old twins Paul and Scott Rambo, were booted from classes last week after distributing posters touting Trevor as a candidate for Westside High's "Distinguished African-American Student" award on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.

"The posters were intended to be satire on the term African-American," Scott Rambo told the Omaha World-Herald.

Principal John Crook says the posters were disruptive.

"It was offensive to the individual being honored, to people who work here and to some students," Crook told the paper. "My role is to make sure we have a safe environment, physically and psychologically. We can't allow that kind of thing to be hung up on our walls."

Records from 2002-2003 indicate only 56 of Westside's 1,632 students were black, and some in this year's student body were reportedly upset by Richards' poster.

Ironically, the first two recipients of the student award were white.

"It was not intended at the beginning to be one race only," Clidie Cook, who helps organize the annual event, told the World-Herald.

But Westside officials pushed to change that, feeling the spirit of the honor meant giving it to a black student, and by 2001, the ministerial alliance in charge specified it was for blacks only.

Since the suspensions last week, the issue has been picked up by the Associated Press wire service, and has become a hot topic for columnists, talk radio and Internet messageboards.

"There is no room at the inn for the viewpoints of conservatives, libertarians, Christians, or constitutionalists in the public indoctrination system," says David Huntwork, a conservative activist in Fort Collins, Colo., who criticized the squashing of "this gallant expression of grassroots activism."

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OK this got me thinking what does the term African American actually mean. Does it mean that your roots trace back to the slave trade and Africa or is it just another term for black.

Why do you think so few blacks have taken the plunge into the world of triathlon?
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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"Why do you think "

This was actually discussed in some detail before. No conclusions were made but there seems to be an observation that many black people have the perception that they aren't good swimmers. I chimed in last time based upon my experiences when no less than three black friends have told me in discussion about triathlon that "black people can't swim". Obviously a self perception but that doesn't explain why there still aren't large numbers in duathlon.

BTW, could you imagine a top Kenyan runner in a duathlon. Wouldn't be that hard for a Kenyan to learn how to bike fast.

"the trigeek formerly known as cerveloguy"
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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I bet the folks who coined the term "African-American" had no idea it could be used like this. I have heard about this story, and I find it very interesting. I wonder what the outcome will be. For what it's worth, I think the guy is an African-American. I have never seen color of skin attached to the term African-American. We have just always assumed that African-American meant a person who is black. That's why the term was coined -- to describe black people in America. But what happens if a white person born in Africa moves to America? Is not he/she an African-American as well? Certainly. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

RP
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Re: African American [Robert Preston] [ In reply to ]
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Some white people from Africa can trace their ancestry to that continent for over four hundred years. They are definately native Africans in the true geographical sense.

I think the authorities over reacted with this high school kid as it was obviously a joke on the term "African-American". just a case of PC going a bit too far.

"the trigeek formerly known as cerveloguy"
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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I just think that the whole concept of race is a bit bizarre. OK so you have black, white, various asian, native american, etc etc etc. What about if someone looks different from their ancestry, or their ancestry cannot be determined by appearance?

To me - African American, or persons of African descent, means that as far back as you can trace someones lineage, they are from Africa. Does this mean black? Well I don't know, but I wouldn't characterise a 'typical' North African as being black. A white South African in America- I suppose they would fall as a European - African - American. What about a 'mixed' SA in America - Euro/African African American? Indian SA? Where do you stop??

I prefer to look at people based on their individual traits. For the first 8 years of my life, I didn't even know what race was, I wish I could have kept it that way.

Blacks in triathlons - simple. There aren't any role models, so participation is lower. All it will take will be one superstar that kids aspire to, and the floodgates will open.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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"Why do you think so few blacks have taken the plunge into the world of triathlon? "

Not a lot of balck people want to. A majority of the blacks in America who are into sports are into the ball sports. No real mystery.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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Based on my experience, it is a politically correct term used to ethnically describe American Blacks. I say this because I have worked with many Blacks from Africa, and they do not describe themselves as "African". They will say, "I am Nigerian" or "I am Kenyan" or, in some cases, "I am a U.S. citizen". I find it very frustrating, because as someone who lives in the ultra-liberal, PC universe of Boston, we have to be careful in the workplace not to describe any American person of color as anything ethnicity-derived at all, because some people prefer "black", while others prefer "African American" and if you choose the wrong term, you could be looking at 3 days at diversity training and a dead career. (This was not a problem in the military, where you had Blacks, Whites, and Latinos, and little banter over who was what.) I work in a very diverse workplace, and it's okay for me to call the Chinese guy Chinese, the Indian guy Indian, etc, despite the fact that the person may or may not actually be from there. But I'm not supposed to call the black people black, or African American, because to refer to their race at all is considered insulting.

This whole topic causes me no end of hand-wringing. Now I'm worried that I've insulted someone. Well, I hope not.

Regarding the kids, I think that it is pretty clear that the term African American is meant to refer to an American Black, and while they may have meant it as a joke, I can see where someone might not see the humor in nominating someone who is the progeny of the ruling class of South Africa that was responsible for apartheid to receive a special award on Martin Luther King day.

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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Ironically, the first two recipients of the student award were white.

"It was not intended at the beginning to be one race only," Clidie Cook, who helps organize the annual event, told the World-Herald.

But Westside officials pushed to change that, feeling the spirit of the honor meant giving it to a black student, and by 2001, the ministerial alliance in charge specified it was for blacks only.
By awarding it only to black students doesn't this kinda defeat the whole purpose of the award? Embracing equality?
OK this got me thinking what does the term African American actually mean. Does it mean that your roots trace back to the slave trade and Africa or is it just another term for black. And if it is a term for color, being an Asian American, what color does that make me? :) Funny, I ran into this recently when a man who was a mixed race like myself approached me and asked if I am offended when people try to "figure out what I am". I answered the question with his own and he said sometimes. I asked what races are in his family and he said his father's side is from Jamaica and his mother's from Sweden. (yes ladies, he WAS hot) So, does that make him a Jamaican Swedish American? And, a little known fact, many of the Jamaicans are actually CHINESE!!! Chinese Jamaican?

Why do you think so few blacks have taken the plunge into the world of triathlon? I deal with this issue on a daily basis. As director of KIT, Kids In Training, we are involved with getting kids fit and curently we train kids for multi-sport and produce races for them. We are non profit and part of our mission is trying to "equalize" the sport and make sure everyone has the opportunity to participate by providing scholarships (about 20% of all of our programs and races) and teaching kids skills they may have not learned before. The latter is where we are seeing many black children. The other poster that said many feel they cannot swim is SO true. As a former strength coach for our local Arena Football team, I noticed this for the first time. I would get the players in the pool the day after the game and most stayed in shallow water, would not go any deeper than about hip height. These 200+ lb men were afraid of the water. They truly believed they would sink. Funny thing is, when I made it a game (game = competition to these men) the fear of drowning was lost. They were just fine in the water. Spastic, but fine. Also, and this is NOT race related, swimming is not a sport that most economically-challenged (PC) people can participate in since to actually be in a pool usually costs money. Lessons and swim team just add to that cost. Hopefully KIT will be able to change that to some extent.


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maylene jackson, cscs
http://www.kidsintraining.org
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Re: African American [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Simple. African-American means that you were born in Africa and are now an American citizen. If I had been born in Ireland, I would be an Irish-American regardless of skin color. For the record, I am an american. Call me a Black if you like; it's fine by me. I was not born in Africa, so I will never be an African-American. My wife is an American whose decendents were Irish, I don't consider her to be Irish or an Irish-American.

Why don't more blacks participate in Triathlon?

It's goddamned expensive! Look at the demographics of the black population in America. In my opinion, very few of us have the time or money to do this. Blacks are a pretty small percentage of the population and a much smaller percentage earn an income that can justify Triathlon. Especially with a family to support. I am lucky that my wife and I have very good jobs and flexible schedules that allow me spend and train for this sport. I just turned 30, this is my first season and it is very intimidating when I think of everything that I have to do. My Black friends at work know that I am training for tri's and they thinks it's cool, but I don't think that they would consider it for themselves. They prefer football and basketball (I have never played team sports. Don't even know the rules). They would think I was insane if I told them what I spend (and I don't spend nearly as much as I would like).

-kb
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Just another reason I've never used that term.
Why do you think so few blacks have taken the plunge into the world of triathlon?


Here is a link to our previous attempts at answering your question:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...forum.cgi?post=55473

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...forum.cgi?post=55635
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Re: African American [MachV] [ In reply to ]
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Good Post, Jaylew.

-kb
Last edited by: MachV: Jan 28, 04 8:26
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Re: African American [MachV] [ In reply to ]
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"It's goddamned expensive"

It don't think really explains it. I'm in Canada so most blacks I've known can trace their heritage to the Caribbean islands. Most are first or second generation Canuks and well integrated into the middle class. We still don't see a lot of black triathletes up here, but do see lots in track and field sprint events, particularly proportionate to their population.

The explanation I've always been told (by black people themselves) is that "black people can't swim." Obviously a self perception as we used to hear the same argument why there aren't many black scuba divers. To me that's like hearing "black people can't play tennis" or "black people can't golf" prior to the Williams sisters and Tiger.

As for the cost, not being from the states, I've been under the impression that there is a huge black middle class in the USA. So there should be lots who could afford it. I tend to think it's a cultural thing with most black kids being more interested in basketball or 100 m sprints since that's what they see their sports role models doing.

Tri is expensive for white folks also. But it doesn't really have to be. A good second hand tri bike can be had for a grand and a Specialized trispoke with CH Aero disc covers can be had very cheaply. Then all you need is a wetsuit and a pair of running shoes. Once people get into the equipment "fashion show" then it can be very expensive. It really gets expensive once you get into international travel, but it's really only a small proportion of triathletes who actually do this. Most race events fairly close to home.
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Re: African American [MachV] [ In reply to ]
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As far as labels go ... the less we have, the better off we'll be. (I know. Duh? I'm really revealing a nugget of wisdom)

I certainly don't think of the term "black" as having any more/less connotations than the word "white" or "brown" or "tan". The deabte of its accuracy is another story. I'm much more "sandy leather" than I am white =)

I've certainly seen/heard someone say the word "black" (and "white" for that matter) with the same fervor and hostility as other not-so-polite words ... and with the same curse words following the descriptive term. It's not necessarily the term (in general), but how it's used.

I worked at a marketing company in KC where we hired a lot of temp help. So, the variety was immense. Age, race, sex (okay, only 2 choices in that one), personality, hometown, etc. Our discussions often led to issues of differences/similarities among groups of people. We were discussing this very topic, when I asked my black friend "what do you prefer to be called?". His reply, "James". A head nod inferred that an understanding had been reached ... of course, I never called him James ... I called him "J-Dub" (initials JW).

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: African American [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Sure, there are lots (relatively speaking) who can afford it, but Triathlon is expensive and time consuming even at the lowest levels. Triathlon is a (growing, I know.) fringe sport in general. There are cultural issues, financial issues and honestly, not that may blacks who can pull it off. I happen to have a "Perfect Storm" of time, money and desire that makes it possible for me. As I said earlier, I have never played team sports (I was the rare black kid at the skate park, dreaming of going pro and looking up to Tony Hawk), so maybe I didn't get pushed toward the more "traditional" sports for black youth. I think that there is a lot of pressure in some successful black families that keeps participation in non-mainstream sports low.

"A good second hand tri bike can be had for a grand"

This is my point. $1000 is a lot of money. $500 is a lot of money. Even for someone with an upper class income like myself. A top of the line basketball cost $50. I am doing 4 tris' and a du this year and the entry fees alone come to $300. That is a lot of money for an activity that I don't *have* to do at all.

I have heard that "black people can't swim", but my son was the fastest 4yo in the nation in the 25-Free (untill he quit to play soccer). Hopefully, he got the swim skills from me. :-)

-kb
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Re: African American [MachV] [ In reply to ]
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"A good second hand tri bike can be had for a grand"

He's a Canuck, maybe in funny money that isn't a lot, eh!!

(Canadian, and proud of it)
Last edited by: jasonk: Jan 28, 04 10:08
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Re: African American [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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It's hard for me to oppose anyone named Rambo.

As I read this, I thought the answer is "D: Need more information".

We need to know if the guys were doing this [1] to piss people off, [2] to be funny, or [3] make a serious statement, or even a mixture of these. That determines what course of action takes place.

The story itself depends on how you interpret the information you've been given. I don't like that. If you're (the media, not TRI) going to tell the story, then tell the story.

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Discrimination has to be taken in context. If it is determined by reasonable conclusion that certain groups are unable to compete with other groups, then seerate awards are warranted ... such as the 45/49 Ag winner , and male & female winners. But, you don't set up "black", "white", etc awards unless it is reasonable to assume that one group cannot compete with the other.

African American student of the month award makes about as much sense as HS white defensive back award.


I'm for acknowledging those with great achievements, but if it can't be narrowed down to one person, then don't give "an" award. Give "plaques (Sp?) of acievement". Do we really need a "Man of the Year?" Can we not have "Men of the Year". We're not talking about something that requires "A winner, and a bunch of losers" like other sportig endeavors.

If I were to win an award for "white people" and I was 5th on the list for the "overall" award, I don't know how I would feel about that. Do I accept the award knowing that there were folks who deserved an award more than I, bu there were just the wrong color for this award?

Seriously, I know the awards, etc come from good intentions. I know they really do, but it somewhat bothers me. I know, the obvious comments are "why would a "race" award bother a white guy?", and it's not from hate, or jealousy, or anything like that ... I just feel it's another way to seperate the people. I also feel it's part of our "everyone gets an award" type society, and I don't agre with that either. (<-- just a opinion, not worth more than anyone else's ...LOL)

What about someone like Derek Jeter? Is he eligible to win "Black man of the Year" (father is black, mother is white). What about Tiger Woods? Is he not as much Thai, as he is black?

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
Last edited by: TripleThreat: Jan 28, 04 10:26
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Re: African American [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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What's this "black's can't swim crap"....do any of you guy remember Anthony Nesty from Surinam who won a gold medal in the 200m Fly at the Barcelona Olympics (I believe...either that our Seoul). Anyway, it is just a matter of exposure to pool time in childhood. That may be the main problem.



As for minorities in triathlon in North America, I don't think you can go with the role models arguement. Hey Tinley is a fine role model for me, and I am a Canadian of Indian descent (i.e. my parents were born in Calcutta). Besides Fuel Belt CEO Vinu Malik there aren't too many fast guys with the genetic background from my end of the world, but that is not a barrier. I think economics, lifestyle, interests, parental support and opportunity are more important. All my "Indian role models" are PhD Physicists. All the Indian kids that I grew up with have PhDs, but none have done 11 Ironman like me. My parents were unique in that they encouraged an athletic lifestyle (...yeah, they also kicked my ass with respect to academics and nothing less than an A+ was acceptable in our house). So, all this to say that more minorities will gradually enter tri in North America as the parents make sport available to their children. When first generation immigrants are just scrambling to make ends meet, the last thing they might be thinking of is to get their son to a swim practice at 5:30 am. Same thing may apply to some African Americans, but I can't speak on their behalf :-)
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Re: African American [devashish paul] [ In reply to ]
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Black dudes are easing their way into the water. They're getting comfortable on the ice first.

Okay, that was an attempt at humor by pointing out the increasing number of black hockey players. It didn't happen overnight, but it did happen, and it gradually increased.

Folks of a certain race do what other folks of the same race do. So, if few black guys swim, few young black guys will swim. If many black guys play basketball, then many young black guys will play basketball.

You can take any race and any example and use the same format. People tend to stay in the comfort of the flock, so patterns develop.

I don't know that Tiger Woods led to a flood of black people playing golf ... but he certainly made it acceptable for black peopple to try and not something "only white people do".

some of it can be attributed to economics, but I feel much is due to peer pressure. I can't imagine the ridicule a black person might receive for choosing triathlon over something else. "Bruh, let's go play some ball." "Naw, I'm going to go run 8 miles." "What? Run your ass and your 8 miles up and down the court. Let's go"

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: African American [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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>>So, the variety was immense. ... sex (okay, only 2 choices in that one),<<

Hahahahaha. You've not spent much time in the large urban areas, no? There are multiple choices in this area in SF. Craziest sight I ever saw on an early morning run: A very ugly trannie on his/her way home down at Fisherman's Wharf about 6AM one summer morning.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: African American [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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"There are multiple choices in this area in SF."

Only have visited SF, and noticed there are a lot of alternative everything there. The only thing that I didn't see was children. Under the impression that SF is full of yuppies, guppies, dinks and singles but very few families with young kids. I assume most of the families must live over the bridge?
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Re: African American [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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I worked at a gas station in Kansas City while finsihing college. I saw plenty of stuff, none more overt than a 6'6 fully bearded "person" in a dress and high heels (every day). They'd order GPC Menthol Light 100s, and I'd give them a "See ya next time. Have a good one".

With 2 choices ... I mean chromosomally. You either have a "Y" or you don't. What one does with their appendages after that, is their business.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --
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Re: African American [MachV] [ In reply to ]
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Triathlon doesn't even have to be that expensive. A Sora equipped Giant costs $550 new (or you can get a new 105 equipped bike from Chuck's for about the same price, though you will have probably never heard of the bike brand before). Throw in a helmet, pump, couple tubes, Allen wrench and a few pairs of shorts and for $750-800 you're set up. You may not have all the gadgets, toys, race wheels and an uber-expensive bike, but you would be set up and able to enjoy a triathlon as much as the wealthy trigeek with the P3 who sets up next to you in transition.

Figure by the time you get the basketball, the outfit and a couple of pairs of basketball shoes, you're about halfway to a tri set up. And if you should choose golf as your hobby -- well, clubs, balls and greens fees really add up quickly.

At the basic level, triathlon isn't that expensive. We make it expensive by going after all the toys. Race entry fees can be high, but a sprint or OD race isn't too bad when compared to greens fees at many golf courses.

Triathlon is one of those sports that allow you to make it as expensive as you want it to be. Unfortunately, most of us make it much more expensive than it should be.

RP
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Re: African American [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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<Only have visited SF, and noticed there are a lot of alternative everything there. The only thing that I didn't see was children. Under the impression that SF is full of yuppies, guppies, dinks and singles but very few families with young kids. I assume most of the families must live over the bridge?<

I'm not exactly sure how SF compares to other cities or the surrounding suburbs... However, I am guessing you didn't spend a lot of time in the residential neighborhoods (Sunset, Richmond districts, etc..) where you're more likely to see families.

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Re: African American [TripleThreat] [ In reply to ]
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>>With 2 choices ... I mean chromosomally. You either have a "Y" or you don't.<<

Well, not totally correct, but that's a whole other discussion.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: African American [jhc] [ In reply to ]
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>><Only have visited SF, and noticed there are a lot of alternative everything there. The only thing that I didn't see was children. Under the impression that SF is full of yuppies, guppies, dinks and singles but very few families with young kids. I assume most of the families must live over the bridge?<

I'm not exactly sure how SF compares to other cities or the surrounding suburbs... However, I am guessing you didn't spend a lot of time in the residential neighborhoods (Sunset, Richmond districts, etc..) where you're more likely to see families. <<

True. I see lots of them in my neighborhood and on the bus/cable car in the morning, mostly Chinese. Our next door neighbors have two girls and there are a number of kids at the dojo. If you mean the Caucasian, nuclear family, you have to look a little closer, but they are there (like my next-door neighbors).

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
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