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Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter?
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Pretty new to crits. Started in Cat 5 this season with my first one and have gotten on the podium in my last couple crits (8th and 9th crits), but am struggling to win. I know aero is generally better, but in a crit where everyone is in a pack and slowing and re-accelerating, would a lighter wheel fare better than an aero wheel? I've been on my 404s, but am considering using my 202s.

Same question on aero road helmets. Would an aero helmet be beneficial as I finish up Cat 5 and move into the 3/4 races?
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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Aero wheels are better, aero helmet helps a bit but neither will help you win a crit. Are you struggling because of fitness or tactics?
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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If you are on the podium then you probably have the fitness/speed to win. At that point it is about positioning out of the last corner and knowing when to jump on your sprint. Positioning is easy, be 2nd-4th out of the last corner, fight to get there. The second is individual and how you compare to your competition.

In regards to your question....404's are just fine and probably the right compromise, keep using them. If you are worried about their mass I suggest you look at the bathroom scale and worry about that number instead. I just cat'ed up to a 3 and have been racing just fine on an old Aluminum Soloist with Reynolds Attack wheels. Could I have gone faster with a Felt AR and 404's, probably. But you can wail on people with any equipment you want, you just have to train a little harder. I still get beat by a guy who rides a Giant Aluminum bike with box section wheels with Gatorskins (Gasp!!) on them. It doesn't hurt that he is a Cat 2 and raced the UCI mtn. bike series for a while though.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the input. My assumption is tactics are the issue. I've just been trying new things. Everything from sprinting off the line and being a corner ahead for half the race to sitting at the very back and seeing what happens. My best results were from catching the break on the last corner and hanging on, and from making an early solo break (about halfway into the last lap, earlier than anyone else would follow) and just about making that stick. In the latter situation I ran out of steam right near the end and got passed by a couple people, so I think tactically if I had waited just a little longer, I could have won it, but who really knows.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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If I had a choice, I'd probably go with 303's. I think 404's would be the safe option though considering crits are generally done at higher speeds and the improved aerodynamics should make up for the weight penalty on accelerations. Now if you were doing some weird crit course where all the corners were extremely sharp and lead directly into an uphill...then maybe the 202's.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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pyrahna wrote:
If you are on the podium then you probably have the fitness/speed to win. At that point it is about positioning out of the last corner and knowing when to jump on your sprint. Positioning is easy, be 2nd-4th out of the last corner, fight to get there. .
+1
I remember somebody saying the sprint for the last corner position is usually more important than the sprint for the finish, always felt that was the truth.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [leegoocrap] [ In reply to ]
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leegoocrap wrote:
I remember somebody saying the sprint for the last corner position is usually more important than the sprint for the finish, always felt that was the truth.

that's a fact.

OP, ride which ever wheels you want- 404s are going to be better than your 202s - the aero works out to be quite a bit more significant than acceleration, but at the level you are at your goal should be "learning how to race crits", and results are pretty secondary.
You clearly have strength, tactics are worth way more than anything else - learn to draft better, corner better, position better, sprint better - those are where you'll see meaningful gains. Wheels & helmets are worth a tiny bit, the other stuff is worth a ton.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [hidayanra] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I'll just stick with the 404s then and not bother with purchasing an aero helmet.

Does anyone have a good resource for learning to crit? I've kind of naturally picked up that you have to be in 2-5 position at the break. I seem to recall a good blog with videos of some guy who was showing the front/rear camera angles from his races and giving pointers. But it was before I was too interested in crits, so I didn't pay too much attention.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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You are likely remembering Sprinter della Casa - https://www.youtube.com/user/SprinterDellaCasa

His blog is a treasure trove, worth reading back through a few years - he's a genius at crits.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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in fact, here's a GREAT place to start: http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/...ght-race-may-27.html
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I'll just stick with the 404s then and not bother with purchasing an aero helmet.

I'd get the aero helmet, aero frame, and skinsuit. If you go as aero as possible, that opens up another avenue for winning besides the pack sprint. It sound like you are already pretty decent in solo flyers, and the aero will also help a lot if you are in a break.

If you are experiencing a lot of speed change in the corners, then ride near the front. Not nearly as much fluctuation, and it's where you need to be anyway.

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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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All about the tactics, less about the gear.

From what you said you have tried going off the front solo and hanging out in the back waiting. Both of those require you to be a strong rider. The solo break requires massive amounts of effort and hanging in the back takes a lot of effort to stay on the pack due to the whip effect at the corners. The best place to be in a crit is in the top 5-10 at the front of the pack. Easiest, smoothest riding. Only issue is it requires you to take a flyer close to the race end or to be able to dish the hurt in a pack sprint at the line.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Aero wheels or light wheels

whichever you can afford to replace...
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [odin99] [ In reply to ]
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They're both the same price. I guess the 202s are a little harder to find on the used market.
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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jjabr wrote:
Pretty new to crits. Started in Cat 5 this season with my first one and have gotten on the podium in my last couple crits (8th and 9th crits), but am struggling to win. I know aero is generally better, but in a crit where everyone is in a pack and slowing and re-accelerating, would a lighter wheel fare better than an aero wheel? I've been on my 404s, but am considering using my 202s.

Same question on aero road helmets. Would an aero helmet be beneficial as I finish up Cat 5 and move into the 3/4 races?
Putting aside all the race nouse/experience/skills issues, race the gear you can afford to crash. Bike, helmet, clothing etc.

After that use the wheels that feel good for you cornering etc, although that's mostly a tyre choice and pressure issue.

At most race speeds, quality aero wheels will accelerate better than light/non aero wheels and will help you attain and maintain a higher speed than light/non-aero wheel will.

http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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If you have 404s, I'd race those in every situation. I'd never race 202s. Seem pretty pointless.

With that said, I race a 200 dollar pair of Vuelta Al wheels. Come in at 1550 grams or so and very easy to replace if necessary. I've broken 2 carbon rims in crits on manhole covers so just can't be bothered with carbon/any expensive wheel anymore. I also don't have an aero helmet or a skinsuit. I race as a 1.

To echo the above, if you have the fitness to podium, you can have the fitness to win. Winning is hard, though, and some times you need a bunch of things to go right. I've got 8-9 crit podiums this year and only one crit win. Equipment isn't going to do it. Positioning and timing is. It can get really frustrating at times but like everything, if you keep plugging away it'll come. Good luck!
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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you might enjoy reading this oldie:

http://biketechreview.com/...63-wheel-performance

this appendix shows some crit "g" data:

http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/images/appd.pdf


...can you lose 5kgs? ;-)

=================
Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [BikeTechReview] [ In reply to ]
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BikeTechReview wrote:
you might enjoy reading this oldie:

http://biketechreview.com/...63-wheel-performance

this appendix shows some crit "g" data:

http://www.biketechreview.com/archive/images/appd.pdf


...can you lose 5kgs? ;-)

Yeah, accelerations are quite modest in cycling. Body mass way more important than wheels! :)

Here's an acceleration plot created in WKO4 for a random mostly flat crit I rode 4 or so years ago. Modestly technical circuit (10 corners) but none that are slow. Had a rear puncture/lap out with ~25-min to go, hence the gap in data.




http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au
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Re: Aero wheels or light wheels in crits? Also, aero helmet or does it not matter? [jjabr] [ In reply to ]
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Seems like you are getting good advice, but maybe consider flo 30s on the cheap as a simple safe aero play, and much cheaper than zipps.
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