You don't know what you are talking about. RPM said so.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Did you read the article? He uses a mountain bike.

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them

You know your right if RPM says it, it has to be true...


Joel

Which is irrelevant since he is already suggest you cannot ride a road bike. I think that means no road bike no riding.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Read this...
http://www.nature.com/...tical-errors-1.14700

watch this


http://www.couriermail.com.au/...ihsrf2-1226856818437


We're tired of you, we're tired of your marginal justifications, we're tired of your magical positive interactions with drivers after you've hogged the center of a line that you did not need and most of we're all tired of you.

This thread delivers. And delivers. And delivers.

BOOYAH.

Cheers to that dude. I noticed something. Quiet for a couple days, and both of these guys come back in the same day. Coincidence?

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

That nature article about p-value makes the same point I made earlier today in response to a request for data. I even posted a link to a comic making that point. What's your point?

Since there is no shoulder on the road in that video what would you do different from that cyclist? I would of course use a mirror and communication to get him to back off well before he was hit.

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them

The discussion was about the challenge of riding in winter because the shoulders are unavailable due to bring filled with plowed snow. You said you can't ride in the winter anyway. But you can, on a mountain bike. And this guy does. Using the full lane by default. The lack of shoulders doesn't matter.

I still don't understand why you guys think the presence of a shoulder makes lane use more dangerous.

Take a given road with a shoulder. Probability of being hit while in the lane is P(l). Probability of being hit while on the shoulder is P(s). Now on this road say the shoulder is removed, blocked or whatever. Everything else - roadway width, traffic, surface, visibility - stays the same. So you have no choice but to ride in the lane. If you do you're accepting a risk of P(l).

If P(l) is acceptable risk when there is no shoulder, why is it unacceptable when there is a shoulder?

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them

Yes and did you read my response I have a road bike and a tri-bike (like most of the people on this triathlon forum) so what does a person riding a mountain bike (or even fat bike) have to do with me... I ride exclusively for training how am I going to train for a triathlon or duathlon in those types of winter conditions using a road bike or a tri-bike...


Joel

I just don't get 95 because it seems like no matter what the topic he just does not get what people are saying. I can't figure out whether he does not actually understand what people are saying or if he is simply ignoring it. My point on the winter weather was that 95% of the people on Slowtwitch are training for actual triathlon or cycling events that you need to use a road bike or tri-bike for and that at least where I live in Michigan that is not possible outdoors in the winter it had nothing to do with lane control or anything else it was simply an observation that sometimes conditions of all sorts make riding hazardous and therefore a lot of people will decide it is not worth the risk. Some of the other posters such as wareagle do concede this point (in fact he made a point of letting people know that the people in Dallas were getting a bit stir crazy because of not being able to ride outdoors because of all the storms and the flooding).


Joel

As my Grandmother used to say, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I already have my mind made up."

There are lots of people like that in the world, and 95 is one of them. If he truly has never sat a stop light and thought "If I go right now (against the red) I can be through this intersection and in to that residential area before the cars behind me try to pass me" he either has no experience in big busy city bike riding, or he simply does the same thing every and never adjusts for the situation.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

...Yeah, but that would make you a law-breaker. The best adjustment? Wait your turn, like every other road user.

Every action you take like that, running a red, crossing via a crosswalk, filtering to the front... All of it just increases antipathy towards cyclists in general. It's sophomoric. And it's less safe.

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie

Man, that is REALLY cool. Kudos to your municipality for keeping the shoulders as clean as the rest of the roadway, and I'm sorry that they feel the shoulder is more important than the road itself, per your comment about potholes.

Are the shoulders perpetually cleaner and smoother than the rest of the road that motorists use? Is it overwhelming? If so, wow, maybe I need to rethink my first compliment about your municipality and their priorities. Do you pay extra taxes to keep the roads up, or do you punt like everyone else and wait for the feds to pick up the tab, per the Highway fund?

The roads are imminently cleaner, smoother, and wider than the shoulder/breakdown lane or parallel parking lane. I said in a previous post that I ride mostly low RR tubulars. I've got about 3k miles on my latest pair, with no flats, and no gu in the tubes. Why? It's because I'm cycling in the lane, where it's free of debris. Your Gatorskinz are costing you speed and comfort. Just ask Tom Anhalt...

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie

No, its getting along with those motorist, and getting out of their way. You don't know what you are talking about and now you've resorted to name calling. Go crawl back under your rock.

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Per the video in link 2... This is completely, 100% the motorist's fault. While I'm glad that the Lorry driver caught the whole thing on video, it's really extraordinarily rare. Furthermore, after the assault, it's now the burden of the District Attorney, or whatever they call it in Australia, the magistrate? to prosecute.

Not getting help from law enforcement is a WHOLE OTHER TOPIC. My argument is - let's do what we can as cyclists and triathletes, to improve situational awareness and lawful cycling, by doing our part. It's quick to learn and adopt, it's REALLY cheap, and the effect is immediate.

Again - I'm really sorry about the cyclist in the video. What happened to him is terrible. But it's also rare, especially to a cyclist who is practicing lane control. Had the motorist just paused, signaled, and passed, well, the video would've been ignored and overwritten, and perhaps used to record something else egregious, not involving a cyclist.

Y'all have a lot of groove set in your ways. Intelligent debate and discussion always appreciated.

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie

And per the comments, the driver was convicted, fined $600ausd, and was thus exposed to a private lawsuit or judgment from the cyclist as well. She did stop and render aid, so I doubt this was a case of road rage.

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie

This is a serious question. How would you deal with roads like I am going to describe. In my area which is a suburban area outside of Detroit with no mass transit at all and no cycling infrastructure like bike lanes pretty much all the roads are 1 lane each way with no passing and maybe a left turn lane in between and no shoulder anyway generally a 45 MPH speed limit. Even if passing is allowed people there have been many examples of road rage with cars here in Michigan against other cars going to slow because people in my suburban area don't even have the mentality of passing people. Slower cars or any other vehicle are expected to get out of faster cars way and if you are going less than the speed limit people really lose it (all vehicles). Also in Michigan as I understand it you have to be able to keep up with traffic and that has generally been interpreted to be no more than 10 MPH under the speed limit (the statutory minimum for cars too) under generally to be able to take a lane. The traffic on these roads is non stop and they should be widened for cars to at least two lanes each way but because of the fiscal situation in Michigan that is not going to happen. Also I want to spend most of my time in the aero position what are your thoughts about doing that in traffic. I lived in the Dallas area and the roads are quite a bit different than anywhere else I have lived. At least from my remembrance almost all of them were two lanes each way with a divider (a boulevard style) between then. That makes a big difference than when you have no passing (or very limited passing zones).

Because of this I generally restrict my outdoor training rides to a parkway about 5 miles from my house (I always drive to get there) which is much better suited for training.

I am truly open to listening to you since you seem to be at least reasonable as opposed to some of the others who are advocating taking the lane by default.


Joel

Joel - I'm about to start classes in the studio, but I'll definitely do a google maps/google view session with you on join.me or other, at your convenience. Let's figure it out together. I'll also be at ToAD races in late June, so if you're going to WI, let me know and we can meet up. 214-613-5752

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Richard Wharton, USAC L1 since 1997.
Technology, Application, Attention, Success
http://www.onlinebikecoach.com, http://www.cyclingcenterdallas.com
#whareagle, #leavewithnothingleft, #knowyournumbers, #numbersdontlie

I live in Canton, MI in the 48187 zip code that should give you enough information to look up some google maps. No offense to you but that is the most I am comfortable with giving out on the internet.



Joel

Wait, now you're concerned that Jack's actions will increase antipathy towards cyclists in general? Priceless.

I get that. But although that's very relevant to your situation and that of many others (but you can cross train on a mountain bike) it is irrelevant to the larger question about the effect on safety with and without a shoulder on a given road.

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them

It's been a long time since I wasn't safe and comfortable negotiating left across all kinds of traffic. But thanks for reminding me. Glad those days are long gone. It's quite liberating to not have to think and feel like an interloper on the roads anymore.

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them

Something similar to that has happened to a certain lane controlling Texan three times now. We're not helping our cause by dismissing the chances of this kind of crash. But the only way I know to mitigate this risk involves a mirror.

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them

He gave you his number. If you're really serious call him.

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SAVE YOUR LIFE: Know the bike-car crash types and how to avoid them