I moved my saddle back 20mm in the hope of recruiting more quad power and less hamstring and glutes.

Am I the only one who thinks this is backward?

A forward and high position favors quads. Lower and rearward favors glutes and hamstrings. Seems like it to me anyway. Quads extend the lower leg relative to the upper, while the glutes and hamstrings extend the upper leg relative to the torso. A low/rear saddle lets you use the glutes/hamstrings in the later part of the power stroke without pushing you off the front of the saddle. A good deal of your power loss may be due to different muscle recruitment caused by the forward saddle position.

Also, in your first video your torso doesn't look "low" to me, and your upper leg-torso angle isn't tight. I'd tend more in the direction of saddle low and back, and bars lower with more stretch.

Don't worry about getting power back. Your fastest position may very well be in the opposite direction (less power, more aero). I'm more of the philosophy of optimizing aero first (comfort and power take a back seat) and then adapt to it.

What is your CdA?

Thanks for the information. With an effective seat tube angle of 87 degrees (actual frame angle is 81 degrees), ask the question, "Can one be too far forward?"

Also, how can you tell that my knees seem wide?

Michael

I'm not sure. I thought moving the saddle forward would favor the quads more than the hamstrings and glutes, but I could have this wrong. The question remains: do I have my saddle too far forward? I like the forward position since it opens up many acute angles, but I may be under-utilizing some of my muscles (be it quads, hamstrings, glutes) in the process.

What do you mean by first video? My current standard position is the one posted on 5/31/2016. My CdA in this position is about 0.228 based on Chung field testing last fall.

Again, my goal is speed. The tricky part is finding the power/aero balance. My coach thinks I can draw out more speed by increasing my power a bit with a change in position, but minimize the aero penalty. I'm try to figure out where my weakness is (with power related to my position) and make changes to rectify this weakness.

I made a few changes to my position and here is the measurement video: http://goo.gl/0ZeV4i

I moved my saddle back 10mm. I raised my stem from -30 degrees to -20 degrees (about 17mm higher and 7mm longer). I also raised my extensions from 8 degrees to 15 degrees.

In essence, these changes resulted in a 1 degree higher position on the bike (raising the extensions effectively lowered my elbow pads), and kept the same acute shoulder angle - 75 degrees. It did open up my extended shoulder/hip/knee angle a bit (88 to 91 degrees). Everything else is about the same. I seem to have a bit more power in this new position - not sure why.

Still, I have a couple of questions:

1) Am I too forward on my saddle - 87 degree effective seat tube angle (81 degree actual frame/saddle angle)?
2) Shoulder angle is only 75 degrees. Should I have it closer to 90 degrees? And if so, how? Move saddle back or arm rests forward?

Should I move my saddle back another 10mm (and lower it to maintain BB to saddle height)? This should open up my shoulder angle, but it will crimp my associated hip angles.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I said this in response to your last video - that's not 75 degrees, you don't measure to a line between shoulder socket and hip socket. Your upper arm angle to your upper back is at least 90 degrees, maybe a little more. If you're comfortable, I'd leave this as is.

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Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive

Good to know. The iPhone app, Best Bike Fit, has me measuring my shoulder angle using this method. What is the proper way to measure my shoulder angle?

I do find the position comfortable. Sometimes I move my elbows into the elbow pad for a position variation, but usually I keep my elbows a bit off the pads. I don't feel too stretched out nor scrunched.

I'm sorry I didn't notice this comment in your last post.

Michael

Functionally, you are trying to minimize or eliminate a bending moment at your shoulder joint, which has to be resisted by using muscles in your back or upper arm, which uses energy and can lead discomfort and shifting around. Like a chair leg that is completely vertical doesn't require as much bracing as one that is at an angle. Even the group of thoracic vertebrae curve to some degree and can be hard to judge, maybe easier to think of relationship to shoulder blades or just the flattest part of your upper back.

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Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive