If I were to race a DL race with the objective to try and get into Worlds, my first thought is I would buy
a bike that has no questions it meets all the rules. So any TT bike would not be something I assume
I could use, even modified. So if I were to get into world DL and NDL races, I assume I would
bring 2 different bikes, wheels, etc.

Since what exactly is going to happen seems to be still a little gray, I sure would not buy a bike
today for DL racing assuming it would work. If I did, I would want one that is 100% Elite ITU legal,
then it would seem one might be 100% covered?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I think you may find out that trying to assume the ITU doesn't strictly enforce their rules is a fallacy. You may get lucky and get an official winging it from the hip, but my experience is that they don't let things slide. If you didn't conform, I would expect to be turned away. Short-term, switching to DL may be a burden, but I think it will be good for the sport overall. It's much more of a spectator's race in this format and it's quite a fun change up to traditional non-draft. My suggestion, buy a decent road bike and enjoy having another ride! You could also put drop bars on any UCI legal TT frame. There are other dimensional rules that would apply though.

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Veritas Endurance Coaching

Have you read the updated rule book? It specifically lists the age group draft legal bike rules different from the elite rules. Why would they do that if they are actually going to enforce the more rigid UCI rules the the elites follow.

I don't really see how the change to draft legal for age group will improve the sport. People that watch age group racing are generally related or connected to a racer in some way. Having a bunch of amateurs doing a pool job of drafting won't make the sport a hot outside the tri community.

I didn't say anything about the UCIesqu rules elites race under. I was simply stating that, if it is in the rules, they will likely enforce it and there won't be wiggle room. I'm sure there were plenty of people that thought racing cars in a circle was silly when it started too. It adds to spectating because people can more easily follow the race and be part of what is going on. People pay to be part of something and feel involved in something and this makes it more accessible. Riders no longer just disappear for an hour and then magically start racing again. Would you watch any sport on TV if you got to see only the first and last 10 min, but had to watch the black screen for the other 40?

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Veritas Endurance Coaching

Passing judgement on what I do, or don't spend my money on honestly just makes you seem like a jerk if I am being honest. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way but you're just plumping your head in the sand burring it and pretending that this isn't a problem because it doesn't effect you. While you can sit on the sideline and think you're cleaver for buying a more cost effective bike for your own reasons perhaps take a look at the bigger industry picture.

Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't magically make this issue go away. Fact is there are a ton of owners of expensive bikes who are in the same boat as I am at the moment. The frustrations are in how slowly and unclear these rules seemingly are even when questions are directed at National Federations (USAT, Tri Canada, etc). It's also about sending Sprint level athletes into a pack before many are potentially ready. I could name a few others but lets keep focus on the bike.

If I quote you "I am honest with the wife that spending anymore money than this will not give me any more time savings in a race" and I'll also tell you what I told mine, and I'll use quotations too "I really love the team at Felt and how passionate they all are about bikes and their customers. Every interaction I have had with them blows my mind. When I'm buying a new bike, I'm going to support them by purchasing their new flagship bike to race with for the next 4 years"


I'm not looking to get into a heated debate or argue on a message board however I did want you to see the difference between our mentalities. Your statement is all about you and your family, which is very valid and logical. In the end though, it's about you. My statement on the other hand is about the community as a whole. The triathlon and the cycling industries and most importantly the team over at Felt. My reasons are just as valid and logical granted you peer at them through my looking glasses.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Yep, we just have different opinions.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

It's interesting... in the rule, they list all the groups who get DQd if they are lapped. And AGers are not included on that list. So by that omission, I interpret the "DQ if lapped" does not apply to AG racers.

Yes, I should have said that the ITU rules don't strictly follow the UCI rules. The AG bike rules are an odd mix of UCI rules, mainly focused on having a ''traditional' frame design. There is nothing in the rules that says you need a UCI legal TT bike to race an age group event, draft legal or illegal.


They already switched the elite races to drafting for this exact reason. What benefit is there to anyone to have a pile of age groupers racing a draft legal event? Will someone buy a ticket to watch 10hrs of anonymous age groupers go off on a 5km course? Will a random person on the street pay money to watch 10hrs of age groupers on TV? The comparison to car racing, in my opinion, is relatively pointless. Car racing is not an athletic event or endurance event, it is people driving cars really fast and getting in crashes. And, people have always watched events in stadiums way back to the Roman times of chariot racing. People watch the Tour de France because it has turned into a huge cultural icon over the past 100yrs. They haven't shortened the stages or done everything in small loops to improve TV. They improved coverage by adding video to motos and helicopters. Technology is improving so quickly that the cost to film and broadcast events has come down to manageable levels for amateur sport. There is no need to watch 10min and have a blank screen for another 40, as you claimed.

I like the new rules. Less about the bike, more about the rider.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Sprint is a distance, not a level. Olympic tends to attract more talent but offering DL is a game changer for Sprint.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I would love to do a sprint DL race trying out the new rules. Was hoping the TBF golden state, which has been draft legal for years would bid,
but talking to him, he expresses no interest. :(

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You mean more about the group, less about the individual? More about drafting, less about TTing ability.

I was referring to athletes buying free speed, much less of an arms race when it comes to the bikes themselves.

More about tactics and swim/bike ability.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

How is riding in a pack shielded from the wind "more about the rider". I agree I like the format more but it's definitely not advantageous to the best biker but rather the first pack of swimmers that exit and form a pack. Then after that it's about the fastest runner from that pack. If anything the format makes the bike the least important aspect of the race.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

So lets see, we are racing a triathlon. But so many put their focus on but not the best biker in DL. I just laugh. If you want to TT your bike, enter a bike race.

Swimmers get screwed because wetsuits are allowed and drafting is legal. I assume the runners will complain that maybe their legs were blown from the bike.

I have done DL races. Sorry, just because drafting is legal did not mean the stud bikers for most still pulled away from weaker bikers. I know this first hand.

DL shows who is the best triathlete, not best biker who can afford the best bike. If you cannot swim with the best, do a different sport.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

You don't lose races because people have a more expensive bike. It's because your training on the bike is limited and you use powercranks.

Draft legal changes the dynamic of the race. In a competitive field, it definitely makes the swim/run the most important part. Most elites that run sub 32 have the fitness to bike with a pack. In non draft races, the bike/run is most critical. So neither format is really more equal in terms of being an all-rounder.

TL/DR - throw drop bars on any bike as long as it's pre-approved and rock.
ps @RJ_Tri Draft Legal is the most fun!


In general, fast forwarding 5 years... (technically 6, but #2020)
Still next to no draft legal AG races in Canada or the US outside of nationals.


And the newest (2020) rules for bikes in DL races now state:

For draft-illegal events, and Age Group draft-legal events:
(i) Frames: • The bike will be no more than 185 cm long, and 50 cm wide;
• The bike will measure between 24 cm and 30 cm from the ground to the center of the chain wheel axle;
• There will be no less than 54 cm and no more than 65 cm between a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle and a vertical line through the center of the front wheel axle;
• The frame of the bike shall be of a traditional pattern, i.e., built around a closed frame of straight or tapered tubular elements (which may be round, oval, flattened, teardrop shaped or otherwise in cross-section).

Bikes built around a diamond shape (no saddle down tube) or with a rear triangle which does not connect at the top of the down tube/top tube section are considered acceptable.

• Bikes provided with the UCI Time Trial homologation label (Code TT) are always allowed in World Triathlon draft-illegal events, even if they contravene any of the previous bullets in this 5.2 d.) (i) insert.

Approved Non-Traditional Bikes include: (2019 official announcement)
Ceepo Shadow (R)
Cervelo P5X, P3X, PX
Dimond Marquis (Disc & Rim)
Reap TT
TriRig Omni
Ventum One