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Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens
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After 1k


At 3k


At the finish
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
After 1k


At 3k


At the finish
Huh?
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [TriathlonKid] [ In reply to ]
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Kinda an epic blow up. He lost almost 2sec. in the last kilometer (which only takes slightly over 1min.).

Going out hard in a 4000m is a not uncommon tactic (demoralize your opposition), but it backfired pretty badly for him. Pursuiters have a pretty good sense of pacing, so it may be residual fatigue.

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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Oh, alright. That makes sense.
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
Kinda an epic blow up. He lost almost 2sec. in the last kilometer (which only takes slightly over 1min.).

Going out hard in a 4000m is a not uncommon tactic (demoralize your opposition), but it backfired pretty badly for him. Pursuiters have a pretty good sense of pacing, so it may be residual fatigue.

We really need the split data and intended schedule before passing judgement. With the hour he didn't execute the strategy so that was poor execution. Whether he'd have succeeded by following the strategy is another matter but don't ruin your chances by not doing so.

Let's not forget he rode a 4:10 pursuit at sea level, so he does have some idea in this event.

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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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AlexS wrote:

We really need the split data and intended schedule before passing judgement.

1.06 first km - gaining 3s on a guy who was only 1s down in qualifying - not too harsh to judge that as poor pacing. It was a nail biter in the last couple of laps.

AlexS wrote:
Let's not forget he rode a 4:10 pursuit at sea level, so he does have some idea in this event.

Unfortunately it seems like the idea is that he is as strong as several years ago. Would be interesting to know if his support team has changed.
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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given this and the hour record attempt, it does seem kind of unbelievable he did actually get it together and clock 4:10 at some point. I guess the strategy of going for broke pays off once in a while.
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
AlexS wrote:


We really need the split data and intended schedule before passing judgement.


1.06 first km - gaining 3s on a guy who was only 1s down in qualifying - not too harsh to judge that as poor pacing. It was a nail biter in the last couple of laps.

Unfortunately it seems like the idea is that he is as strong as several years ago. Would be interesting to know if his support team has changed.
Still not enough info for me to judge. What was the qualifying ride order?

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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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I'll bow to your knowledge over that of the fastest man ever over 4000m.
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [downesy] [ In reply to ]
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Boom!
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I was thinking the exact same thing. But then again if he'd succeeded then we'd all be praising his ballsy attempt :) One thing was for sure, it made for an interesting viewing :)
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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AlexS wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
Kinda an epic blow up. He lost almost 2sec. in the last kilometer (which only takes slightly over 1min.).

Going out hard in a 4000m is a not uncommon tactic (demoralize your opposition), but it backfired pretty badly for him. Pursuiters have a pretty good sense of pacing, so it may be residual fatigue.


We really need the split data and intended schedule before passing judgement. With the hour he didn't execute the strategy so that was poor execution. Whether he'd have succeeded by following the strategy is another matter but don't ruin your chances by not doing so.

Let's not forget he rode a 4:10 pursuit at sea level, so he does have some idea in this event.

I sourced the data.

Here are his half lap times charted:



and zoomed in (which hides first half lap time):



I think this tells a slightly different story to the narrative.

At some stage I'll get to a comparison with Kueng.

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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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Pacing chart with a pacing fade guide line included. The red line is the slope of pacing fading at a rate of 1 second per km, which if you are inside of that I consider it to be good pacing. Fade more rapidly and you probably went out too hard. However being less doesn't mean optimal, and one would want to examine if you went hard enough to begin with.

A bit depends on your power profile / phenotype. We can see that the nature of Kueng's pacing was somewhat more conservative at the start and I think he could possibly go faster overall with a slightly faster start.



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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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In the post race interview he readily admitted that it was a case of raced it not paced it and it didn't pay off. He still won silver at the world champs, it not exactly a disaster. Particularly when his goal is Rio. He's an interesting character.
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Post deleted by jackmott [ In reply to ]
Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [PT] [ In reply to ]
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PT wrote:
In the post race interview he readily admitted that it was a case of raced it not paced it and it didn't pay off. .

It didn't really seem to pay off in 2010, either - see Fig. 5:

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/...-pursuit-part-3.html

FWIW, my wife made the same mistake (i.e., going out too hard) in qualifying at nationals in 2002, and ended up with the 3rd fastest time. Fortunately for her, though, back then they still had a semi-final round, so she was able to correct her approach and went on to win (although she had to go beat the then-UCI #1 and eventual World's 8th place finisher to do so).

All of which leads to Coggan's #1 rule of pursuiting:

1. Don't go out too hard.
2. Don't go out too hard!
3. DON'T GO OUT TOO HARD!
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Feb 22, 15 5:29
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
PT wrote:
In the post race interview he readily admitted that it was a case of raced it not paced it and it didn't pay off. .


It didn't really seem to pay off in 2010, either - see Fig. 5:

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/...-pursuit-part-3.html

FWIW, my wife made the same mistake (i.e., going out too hard) in qualifying at nationals in 2002, and ended up with the 3rd fastest time. Fortunately for her, though, back then they still had a semi-final round, so she was able to correct her approach and went on to win (although she had to go beat the then-UCI #1 and eventual World's 8th place finisher to do so).

All of which leads to Coggan's #1 rule of pursuiting:

1. Don't go out too hard.
2. Don't go out too hard!
3. DON'T GO OUT TOO HARD!

I was just thinking about this...same energy systems at play as when Bannister and Landy were trying to break 4 minutes at the mile so what you say should be exactly the same....same deal with the 400m freestyle or 400 m IM.
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Re: Bobridge took a page out of his hour attempt pacing strategy, and this is what happens [AlexS] [ In reply to ]
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AlexS wrote:
Finals comparison:


Thanks for finding the data and showing them. People forget that the time gaps depend on the other rider. Nice illustration.
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