At Whistler, I finished my 2nd Ironman in 7 weeks and 3rd in 17. I can tell you that my fatigue level was still pretty high at the start line on Sunday. My overall fitness level isn't as high as yours but I definitely struggled the third time around.

After "What gears should I use at _____?", these are my favorite posts. They all pretty much follow the same format: I just did something awesome and I have something even more awesome coming up soon, but I'm thinking of squeezing in something slightly less awesome in between. They are always phrased in the form of a question, "Do you think this is a good idea?".
This may be the best one ever. It manages to shoehorn in racing 2 Ironman's, 2 world Championships (nearly missing the previous podium at one of them), and contending for a Kona slot over a period of 8 weeks into a single post. Chapeau.

/

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Gary Mc
Did I mention I did Kona

Kinda accept I had a horrible race at IMCanada. My swim was off by 10 min. I did have a good bike ( stuck to plan and ended strong ) but fell apart in the run... Still trying to figure out why. Was conservative on the bike to get a good run split and broke down anyway. This was the first IM out of 9 total that I walked on the run. Was thinking using me fitness to some good use on another( easier course IM) but yes. Don't want to jeopardize my chances of podium at 70.3 or xterra worlds. Would love to get back to kona. Went in 2010 & 2011.... Have had consistant breakdown in the marathon since. My 70.3 races r very strong... So can't figure why I can't nail the IM run like I used to.

it s very hard to give you the proper answer without knowing you personally and having a full picture. So take what i say with a grain of salt.

From what i read in both threads...seems like you are racing a lot....and perhaps not putting the preparation necessary to performe at the level you set for yourself.

The schedule you propose is very busy.....and requires a very strong base in the past few months. Most of the time, when a athlete as a bad day and want to jump into another race to get over it.... i recommend against it.

Focus on the 2 races you have ahead...and then, sit down, and lay down a proper plan to prepare for a succesfull ironman. There is that saying...something about the will to win is important but the will to prepare is vital.....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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And you ask why your IM run is not what it was.............you are getting in a lot of bragging rights though

Here is what is puzzeling to me. This thread and the other, you say you have multiple Kona Q's, top bike splits ect.........seems to me an athlete of your accomplishments would know these answrs

I agree with u on rash decision making. I have had my best IM when my race schedules were at their biggest(15 + races a year) that would include sprint, Olympic, half and 1 full. When I picked up xterra in 2012 I started dropping the load .. More each year. This year I only raced 1 70.3 in April for world qualification . And 4 early season xterras, to maintain regional status and qualify for worlds... Then I dropped the dirt bike and concentrated fully on IM training... Stricked, specific and very focused training. So when my run fell apart, I was at a loss as to what was to Blame. I never missed a training day and they were all strong days. If anything I feel maybe I went into race overtrained, which is why my thoughts were to recover well , Race 70.3 and race IMM based off the fitness I already have not add more IM training.

Then the theory goes that you didn't have a good bike.

No such thing as a good swim/bike if you have a bad run.

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The Home of Advanced Running
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Yea I know. That's why I thought I was conservative on the bike. I held back to 90-95% effort. Was thinking still may have pushed too much. I felt good coming off and started run at 7 pace easily, but slowed on purpose to 8 knowing a 7 wasn't doable for me. But after 10 or so miles is got worse and worse to a shuffle ... My whole body shut down. I'm thinking go to next IM using power meter. When I started IM in 2009 I was ok biker and good runner... Over the years my bike had become strong... 1st bike split at many races including IM Texas and Eagleman. But my run seems to get worse and worse. So even when I recognized this problem at IM last year I tried to address it at IM canada this passed weekend and loved the bike ! But still died on run. So I am either overtrained or too fast on the bike still. Which brings me to the issue of buying a power meter and recover from IM, taper to 70.3 worlds, recover to IMM. (All this with no additional distance training) to test me theory.

I feel ya. I'm no IM, just training for my first. But know the feeling of holding back and it still not being enough.

My training went great for my last marathon, I tapered well but a few miles into the race I knew it wasn't right, tried to reign it in, didn't help. Reigned it in some more, still didn't help. Was walking by 20. Snuck in under 20.

Bad races happen, man!

Sounds like you're figuring it out though!

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The Home of Advanced Running
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Why are you surprised that you blew on the run if you rode the bike at "90%-95% effort"?

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leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

90-95%IM pace effort... Not 70.3 or Olympic or sprint pace effort . Meaning less effort then I usually spend on an IM bike split.

Maybe the effort you usually spend on an IM bike split is more than that gap above what it should be.

Think about it holistically. If you are walking to a 5hr marathon yet have the potential to run a 4hr IM marathon, then it would be entirely the right decision to ride 45 mins slower if it allowed you to do that. Your overall time would be 15 mins faster, and this is a triathlon. Just an example.

Also, threads entitled "Ironman run falling apart" and "Ironman races 8 weeks apart with Ironman Worlds 70.3 in middle" coming from the same dude is an odd combination. I'd suggest the first thread would appear to offer you an answer to the second one..

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

i did IM UK couple of weeks ago and have an 8 week gap to IM wales. i'd happily do a 70.3 in between if there was a particular race that i wanted to do but i'd probably use it more as a training race with little taper. but i'd say yeah, go for it

have you done IM races this close together before? it's my first multi IM year so uncharted territory for me. my coach holding me back at the moment and i'm having to resist the urge to train harder

I've met a age group athlete and a pro recently who run sort of fell apart due various hip & back issues. In their case, they also struggled to make power on the bike. Just because you have a big engine and excel in training and have a lot of experience racing and training at a high level, doesn't make you a orthopedist, give you an automatic degree in Kinesiology, PT, or even a good coach. Some very good athletes are not necessarily students of the sport.

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TrainingBible Coaching
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One major problems is that you'll likely race yourself out of shape somewhat. Figure realistically 2 weeks to recover (giving up more fitness) then 1 week build and 1 week taper again for worlds. Then 1 weeks recovery again and 10 days build 10 days taper.

You'll be racing yourself out of shape. But it could work OK if you have a really deep 25-30 hour per week pro level aerobic base.

The only descent strategy would be Race #1 is a "B" race and you do a minimal taper (hard for an IM), then you recover, 1 week to rebuild some fitness and Race #2 is a "B" race. Race #3, you could recover 5 days, 10 days of solid training and then a 10 day taper. It would be a "A-" race.

Best is if the 70.3 was first. That would allow Race #2 and #3 to be "A-" races I think. The "-" is because you still can't get a full 3 week taper coming off a recovery week from a solid build. Realistically, you need 8 weeks for an A race.... recovery or transitional week, 3 week build, 1 week recovery, 3 weeks taper.

But that's my current philosophy.

Oh...FYI your also running the risk of digging yourself a huge hole after race #3. You'll have to really shut it down after that race.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

I get that bit he did not mention any of those.ailments, or mention any.problems.like.that for.advice. But he is asking for.advice.from.a.forum.where the vast vast majority.of.advice.will be from.those.much.less experianced.and.accomplished.thN himself. . Also being new.he has no way of.sorting out the.fluff. ..