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4 man TTT tips
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What you got?

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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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don't surge when your turn comes up, just like a regular pace line, not trying to drop your teammates
don't be a hero and try to pull more than you are capable of just because you feel you are not doing your share
don't sit too far back from the wheel in front of you, draft is better the closer you are
set an order that works best for teams abilities, possibly have order based upon draft given to draft needed(communist) ie if possible don't have the most aero guy riding right in front of your largest/least aero guy
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Practice together. A lot. Learn to be comfortable sticking *very* close together.

Understand the relative strengths of each rider. Practice giving the strongest riders slightly longer pulls. If there's a weak rider, make sure he understands it's OK to do nothing more than pull through. Make sure your strong rider(s) don't try to be heroes and excessively ramp up the pace during their pulls. That's death to TTT. Learn the maximum sustainable pace, and stick to it. Only push it in the last few miles, where it's OK to drop the 4th guy if necessary. (I assume)

Understand the course. Understand if there's a wind direction change on the course due to a turn, etc, make sure everyone knows when and how to change the direction of rotation. It should be clockwork. It can be good to assign a captain who calls out commands for changing direction, etc.

Communicate. If someone's struggling, you don't want them to suffer silently than disappear off the back too early without anyone knowing. Yell "down."
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Dark Mark wrote:
What you got?

Look out for the referees.
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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All good stuff so far. I would say that beforehand to make sure everyone understands that it is ok to sit on if you have to, and reiterate that hero pulls are a net loser in the end. You can communicate verbal, or by action. If you fade back and there is a hole after two riders, the last guy is telling you to get in. IT should all be 2nd nature, but if not, then have commands set up and what they mean.

Dont do a double pace line either, take long enough pulls that the team can string out in a line for a bit. Double pace lines with this few just means more time in the wind for everyone. In the 2nd half let the hammers pull longer and faster if it can be tolerated, and in the very end go past that since you can drop one guy if someone is up for it.

Strategy really depends on how equal or not everyone is, and by that i mean on race day, not on paper before..
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent

Internet User
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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mississippi mills?

no tips from me ;-)
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I think riding together "a lot" is overrated. in the2 -4man and 3 -2man events I have done, the only riding together was race day. we did fine too, with only a few minutes warming up as a group. I'd also be guilty of slowly ramping the speed back up to what I could sustain(+1-2mph), but then I took longer pulls as well so everyone had time to rest. riding extremely close to the wheel in front of you is more important and you have to be comfy and trust the folks you are riding with not to be squirrels. if you don't trust them, then you will likely ride further back and likely slower as a result of less recovery.

the hardest part of the 4 man to me is not the pulling or the drafting, it is the surging after you have pulled and are dropping back and need to reattach yourself to the last wheel(after you had just pulled) hence, if picking up pace at front, wait long enough for previous rider to reattach. also be sure you are together after turns before laying it down again.

watch out for team following vehicles if they are allowed. they tend to not know what to do when getting passed. same for teams you pass, announce your presence from behind in advance so they can move over if they are not all to the right due to wind conditions(eschelon)
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Try to spend as much time as possible being one of the two "Lucky Pierres".

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Practice together. A lot. Learn to be comfortable sticking *very* close together.

Understand the relative strengths of each rider. Practice giving the strongest riders slightly longer pulls. If there's a weak rider, make sure he understands it's OK to do nothing more than pull through. Make sure your strong rider(s) don't try to be heroes and excessively ramp up the pace during their pulls. That's death to TTT. Learn the maximum sustainable pace, and stick to it. Only push it in the last few miles, where it's OK to drop the 4th guy if necessary. (I assume)

Understand the course. Understand if there's a wind direction change on the course due to a turn, etc, make sure everyone knows when and how to change the direction of rotation. It should be clockwork. It can be good to assign a captain who calls out commands for changing direction, etc.

Communicate. If someone's struggling, you don't want them to suffer silently than disappear off the back too early without anyone knowing. Yell "down."

This is great advice. I would certain advise a couple practice rides together in a tight paceline, even more so if all are racing the TT rigs. Having a team captain calling the rotation is a good idea as well. Worked well for myself and a couple teammates recently.

Good luck!
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Communication is key. One person should be the coach and calling plays on course.
Determine start order, fall in left to right.
If there's a disruption, fill in gaps and re-order. It's easier for someone to jump on the back than try to move forward and regain their spot.
In no wind or headwind ride in the middle of road leaving enough room to swing off and re-attach.
Determine wind angles in advance and where to echelon.
Pulls should be :30-45. It's key to ride smooth and not surge, with gradual accelerations. Don't be a hero early and ride within yourself from the start. If you need a rest, rotate through without taking a pull to stay in sync.
Through turns the first man should pause until he hears "go" from last guy (other riders should "pass it forward").
Accelerate as a group so nobody has to make a big effort to re-attach. Do not pass approaching a turn. Take corners in formation and then rotate through so that rider order is maintained; it's better to slow up momentarily to correct something and then get back to it.
Communicate speed changes with "go" or "off" and make sure you yell it loud. If someone on the front is cracked or going too slow then yell "drop".
If you're cracking then tell others and drop off. It does more harm to take slow pulls than rotate back or drop.
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a form of social media out there that you're not completely useless on?

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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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Dark Mark wrote:
Is there a form of social media out there that you're not completely useless on?

I am not on Pinterest.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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> I think riding together "a lot" is overrated. in the2 -4man and 3 -2man events I have done, the only riding together was race day. we did fine too, with only a few minutes warming up as a group.

Yeah, but you're an experienced TT guy likely riding with other experienced TT guys. I took the OP as being part of a more newbie team. If you've never ridden in the aero position 2" off someone's wheel for 45 minutes, that's something that needs to be practiced so everyone trusts everyone else.
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I suppose, though my first TTT was still the same, never even met my partner before the event in person. knew who he was, but never actually crossed paths. we met at the start line.


edit: and I never ride the TT bike in groups, so no aero 2" off anyone's wheel prior. but not afraid of strong wind in the TT either, which that event was.

4 man is better, more time to rest, even get on basebar if desired on occasion.
Last edited by: jeffp: Jul 24, 14 9:39
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [Dark Mark] [ In reply to ]
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I've never ridden a TTT but I have ridden in a lot of pace lines. Everyone takes pulls that are too long. Every. Single. Time. Even when it is advantageous for some slightly stronger folks to take longer pulls, they generally stay in front longer than necessary. And God help you if a weaker guys repeatedly decides to turn his pull throughs into a 60 test of this manhood. He'll slow you down AND he will not be there at the end when you need him. Given that I have ridden thousands of miles in pace lines and only about 1% of the time does a good sound rotation get going that will work optimally for covering a large distance in the shortest possible time, I would think that would be the part to work on first since it obviously does not happen by accident ;-)

And, keep in mind that all bets are off if there is a huge difference in talent. It is possible that just having one or 2 guys pull 80% of the race may be the fastest way to go.

I would think it would also be helpful to remind everyone to be very conscious of recovery during their time off the front in the pace line. You need to relax as much as you can, breath and do what you can to recover. That is when you drink or eat if need be too. A big part of the ability to get as much recovery as possible when off the front will be being comfortable and relaxed in the draft. Practicing together can help get you more mentally comfortable in a close run TT bike pace line and that will help make sure each guy will have as much as possible to give when they pull. This is even more important if all of your are not experienced roadies with great drafting skills. Or, recognize your collective lack of pack skills (and you are only as strong as your weakest link) and adjust accordingly.

And echeloning. My experience is that only 1 in 100 cyclists have any ability at all to deal with an angled head wind or cross wind effectively in a pace line. People are so bad at it they will not even follow the lead of folks around them in the pace line doing it correctly. Most people just have no clue where the wind is coming from at any given time other than 2 choices of "head wind" or "tail wind".
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Re: 4 man TTT tips [STP] [ In reply to ]
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STP wrote:
I've never ridden a TTT but I have ridden in a lot of pace lines. Everyone takes pulls that are too long. Every. Single. Time. Even when it is advantageous for some slightly stronger folks to take longer pulls, they generally stay in front longer than necessary.

I've ridden with a lot of groups that get it right.

I do agree that most people suck at reading the wind, though. Nothing sucks more than a group ride or breakaway (where you are trying to be cohesive) with a left-to-right crosswind and the lead rider sitting on the white line putting everyone else in the gutter.
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