Fat burning is a proxy for the energy system which you are using, I don't use it like a personal trainer uses it. It has already been proven that your ability to burn fat as a percentage doesn't change, the speed itself does. Fat burning zone denotes the area you stay at pre "glycolytic flux" which indicates you are overwhelming your current mitochondrial ability. At sweet spot zones you are burning fat at its highest rate, working your mitochondrial and general aerobic system at its highest "easy" rate, after which you switch over to burning at increasing rates. It corresponds well to Lydiards "best aerobic effort" or "3/4 pace".
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Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [duffman]
[ In reply to ]
duffman wrote:
FTP, endurance laterThat's funny, because FTP=endurance.
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Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [parasky]
[ In reply to ]
I guess I'll start with an easy question - Could you go out tomorrow morning and ride 110 miles? No tapering, card loading, blah blah blah. Would you remain pretty constant in your effort?
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [parasky]
[ In reply to ]
parasky wrote:
Thanks Grand Pelota, that really was not helpful at all.You couldn't find helpful with a mirror if I wrote it on your forehead backwards.
Paulo just told you the same damn thing. Only nicer.
^^^ Never thought you'd see those two sentences together didya?
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [jaretj]
[ In reply to ]
jaretj wrote:
The post lost all credibility as soon as fat burning was mentionedis there something inherent wrong with the fact that lipolytic enzyme activity (aka fat burning) is at its highest when working at ~65% of VO2max?
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [echappist]
[ In reply to ]
echappist wrote:
jaretj wrote:
The post lost all credibility as soon as fat burning was mentionedis there something inherent wrong with the fact that lipolytic enzyme activity (aka fat burning) is at its highest when working at ~65% of VO2max?
When you put it in a way that serves to mislead and confuse then yes, there is something inherently wrong with it.
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Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
I'm a weak cyclist. I only averaged 16 mph in my last Ironman
I'm trying to make improvements in the off season
I'm committed to cycling 2-3 interval sessions per week (30 mins with 1 min hard 1 min recovery...repeat 15x)
Question: will this do anything to help me improve or will it be a waste of time?
thoughts?
I'm trying to make improvements in the off season
I'm committed to cycling 2-3 interval sessions per week (30 mins with 1 min hard 1 min recovery...repeat 15x)
Question: will this do anything to help me improve or will it be a waste of time?
thoughts?
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [johnnie cocaine]
[ In reply to ]
I posted this on another similar thread, you might find it helpful:
For cycling training with limited time, it's a good idea to maximize training load with your rides, while at the same time not being too carried away with hitting specific effort goals.
For your specific question, here's what I would schedule for your 5 hour/week allotment.
Ride 1
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 16-24 x (30sec HARD! + 30sec Easy)
Ride 2
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 2 x 15-30min Steady riding
Ride 3
2:00h of "spirited riding" where you try to ride a specific course as fast/hard as possible. If you're doing this on the trainer, you can come up with intensity patterns for the ride that keeps you entertained and allows you to maximize the training load for the whole ride.
For you powermeter people, the intensity breakdown is:
HARD! - >110% of FTP
Easy - <50% of FTP
Steady - 80-90% of FTP
This block of training shouldn't be used more than 8 weeks in a row. After 6-8 weeks, it's time to do something else that will build on the adaptations induced by this particular program.
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For cycling training with limited time, it's a good idea to maximize training load with your rides, while at the same time not being too carried away with hitting specific effort goals.
For your specific question, here's what I would schedule for your 5 hour/week allotment.
Ride 1
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 16-24 x (30sec HARD! + 30sec Easy)
Ride 2
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 2 x 15-30min Steady riding
Ride 3
2:00h of "spirited riding" where you try to ride a specific course as fast/hard as possible. If you're doing this on the trainer, you can come up with intensity patterns for the ride that keeps you entertained and allows you to maximize the training load for the whole ride.
For you powermeter people, the intensity breakdown is:
HARD! - >110% of FTP
Easy - <50% of FTP
Steady - 80-90% of FTP
This block of training shouldn't be used more than 8 weeks in a row. After 6-8 weeks, it's time to do something else that will build on the adaptations induced by this particular program.
-
The Triathlon Squad
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Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
Paulo Sousa wrote:
I posted this on another similar thread, you might find it helpful: For cycling training with limited time, it's a good idea to maximize training load with your rides, while at the same time not being too carried away with hitting specific effort goals.
For your specific question, here's what I would schedule for your 5 hour/week allotment.
Ride 1
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 16-24 x (30sec HARD! + 30sec Easy)
Ride 2
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 2 x 15-30min Steady riding
Ride 3
2:00h of "spirited riding" where you try to ride a specific course as fast/hard as possible. If you're doing this on the trainer, you can come up with intensity patterns for the ride that keeps you entertained and allows you to maximize the training load for the whole ride.
For you powermeter people, the intensity breakdown is:
HARD! - >110% of FTP
Easy - <50% of FTP
Steady - 80-90% of FTP
This block of training shouldn't be used more than 8 weeks in a row. After 6-8 weeks, it's time to do something else that will build on the adaptations induced by this particular program.
----
Who are you and what did you do with Paulo?..........;-)
---
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Ultra-tri-guy]
[ In reply to ]
Same thing I was thinking. He appears to have dumbed stuff down just enough for me to understand.
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
"spirited riding"
Paulo,
That's awesome. Gold right there - seriously.
Before we got all obsessed with numbers, generations of endurance athletes did quite well, with that so called "spirited" training.
It's not that complicated.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Paulo,
That's awesome. Gold right there - seriously.
Before we got all obsessed with numbers, generations of endurance athletes did quite well, with that so called "spirited" training.
It's not that complicated.
Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [johnnie cocaine]
[ In reply to ]
johnnie cocaine wrote:
I'm a weak cyclist. I only averaged 16 mph in my last Ironman I'm trying to make improvements in the off season
I'm committed to cycling 2-3 interval sessions per week (30 mins with 1 min hard 1 min recovery...repeat 15x)
Question: will this do anything to help me improve or will it be a waste of time?
thoughts?
It will likely help you improve for a few months while still being a partial waste of time... as in less than an ideal use of time. After which it will be close to a complete waste of time.
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
Paulo Sousa wrote:
I posted this on another similar thread, you might find it helpful: For cycling training with limited time, it's a good idea to maximize training load with your rides, while at the same time not being too carried away with hitting specific effort goals.
For your specific question, here's what I would schedule for your 5 hour/week allotment.
Ride 1
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 16-24 x (30sec HARD! + 30sec Easy)
Ride 2
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 2 x 15-30min Steady riding
Ride 3
2:00h of "spirited riding" where you try to ride a specific course as fast/hard as possible. If you're doing this on the trainer, you can come up with intensity patterns for the ride that keeps you entertained and allows you to maximize the training load for the whole ride.
For you powermeter people, the intensity breakdown is:
HARD! - >110% of FTP
Easy - <50% of FTP
Steady - 80-90% of FTP
This block of training shouldn't be used more than 8 weeks in a row. After 6-8 weeks, it's time to do something else that will build on the adaptations induced by this particular program.
Thank you very much Paulo.
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [johnnie cocaine]
[ In reply to ]
johnnie cocaine wrote:
I'm a weak cyclist. I only averaged 16 mph in my last Ironman I'm trying to make improvements in the off season
I'm committed to cycling 2-3 interval sessions per week (30 mins with 1 min hard 1 min recovery...repeat 15x)
Question: will this do anything to help me improve or will it be a waste of time?
thoughts?
Do you mean 2-3 x 30 min per week in total on the bike?
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Ultra-tri-guy]
[ In reply to ]
Ultra-tri-guy wrote:
Paulo Sousa wrote:
I posted this on another similar thread, you might find it helpful: For cycling training with limited time, it's a good idea to maximize training load with your rides, while at the same time not being too carried away with hitting specific effort goals.
For your specific question, here's what I would schedule for your 5 hour/week allotment.
Ride 1
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 16-24 x (30sec HARD! + 30sec Easy)
Ride 2
1:30h of basic endurance intensity with 2 x 15-30min Steady riding
Ride 3
2:00h of "spirited riding" where you try to ride a specific course as fast/hard as possible. If you're doing this on the trainer, you can come up with intensity patterns for the ride that keeps you entertained and allows you to maximize the training load for the whole ride.
For you powermeter people, the intensity breakdown is:
HARD! - >110% of FTP
Easy - <50% of FTP
Steady - 80-90% of FTP
This block of training shouldn't be used more than 8 weeks in a row. After 6-8 weeks, it's time to do something else that will build on the adaptations induced by this particular program.
----
Who are you and what did you do with Paulo?..........;-)
---
This version of Paulo rocks!
Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
Thanks Paulo, I do find that very helpful. I will try that.
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck wrote:
"spirited riding" Paulo,
That's awesome. Gold right there - seriously.
Before we got all obsessed with numbers, generations of endurance athletes did quite well, with that so called "spirited" training.
It's not that complicated.
Have your cake - and eat it too. I do at least two spirited rides a week, meaning that I ride (90-120') with my PM, but largely ignore whatever it's telling me for the duration of the ride. Most of the time, I'd much rather hammer an ascent than peter along at (what my PM tells me is) a nice, sustainable effort. I reserve the latter type of riding for my submissive days.
"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Fleck]
[ In reply to ]
Fleck wrote:
"spirited riding" Paulo,
That's awesome. Gold right there - seriously.
Before we got all obsessed with numbers, generations of endurance athletes did quite well, with that so called "spirited" training.
It's not that complicated.
No it's not complicated, but it's not about powermeter vs no-powermeter either.
The simple plan I put up there can be executed with or without a powermeter, it shouldn't make a difference. "Spirited riding" can be done with a powermeter by for example having average watts on the display and focusing on increasing that average. Or for those with the new Garmins, target maximizing TSS for the 2 hours.
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Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Grande Pelota]
[ In reply to ]
Why is this a waste of time after 8 weeks? Serious question. What sort of riding should take its place after 8 weeks? Figuring it will be December and all trainer rides.
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Pharmguy]
[ In reply to ]
While I may not agree that it is a total waste of time, adaptations take about 6 weeks to occur so one should change the training stress about every 5 to 8 weeks.
Doing the same thing longer than that adaptation period most likely won't produce better results. Now if that person upped the effort after that time then they might get some benefit out of it but there are better ways for a newbie to improve than tabata intervals
Doing the same thing longer than that adaptation period most likely won't produce better results. Now if that person upped the effort after that time then they might get some benefit out of it but there are better ways for a newbie to improve than tabata intervals
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Paulo Sousa]
[ In reply to ]
So maybe this is a stupid question but...
Does "basic endurance intensity" = ~z2/long ride pace? or something esle?
Does "basic endurance intensity" = ~z2/long ride pace? or something esle?
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Shg101]
[ In reply to ]
Shg101 wrote:
Do you mean 2-3 x 30 min per week in total on the bike?
2 to 3 x 30 min interval sessions per week and one "long" ride on the weekend (2-3 hours) for the offseason
Re: Off Season Bike Training - What should I focus on? [Dirty Bottles]
[ In reply to ]
Dirty Bottles wrote:
So maybe this is a stupid question but... Does "basic endurance intensity" = ~z2/long ride pace? or something esle?
Yes. For those with a powermeter, it's ~70-80% of FTP.
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Step 1 is admitting that there is no off season. For the rest, read what Paulo wrote.