Yes, we do. No other person had had a more positive effect on my swimming more quickly than Doug. He is the best. His coaching and motivational style as well as animated ability to communicate and an incredible amount of experience in his field are a unique combination.

He is the real deal. If we had a running Doug Stern and a cycling Doug Stern it would be awesome. I'd pay big $$$ for that.

I highly recommend his Curacao trip. Five stars *****.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I had been thinking about the same thing! This forum is very informative about bike equipment and swimming technique, but I have not seen too many posts about efficient running technique, running shoes discussions (other than those vitruvian shoes posts), etc.

We could benefit from someone posting some ideas here!

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Los

well, the somewhat obvious observation is that swimming is much more technical than running and biking. so while the answer to "how do i become a better swimmer" is hire a good coach, the answer to "how do i become a better runner" is run more.

i would think less about how you're running and think more about how many times per week you're running. aim for 5-6.

I don't think so 34... there are a lot of technical aspects of running that can be taught in the same way as swimming.

The only difference is that they are easier to learn than swimming. If you ever attend one of my running technique clinics yu'll know what I mean :-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I agree that there are MANY aspects of running just like swimming, but I dont think that they can all be taught. They can be LEARNED, but running is way to "natural" a movement for humans to be taught how to do it. There are a billion things to think about but I firmly believe that the body will learn it on its own much better than a coach can "teach" it.

There are many markers that can be seen along the way to better running form as well, but they are markers, not things that can be taught to do.

Yes and no :-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I am no expert, but I have been "relearning" how to run after dealing with recurrent injuries, most likely due to poor "natural" form. Humans did evolve as runners, but not with big hunks of rubber on their feet. There is a lot of discussion of running form and shoe issues on this and other forums (fora ?). Anyway, take a look at Ken Mierke's book or DVD that he calls "Evolution Running" (search on Amazon or your favorite bookstore or web engine). Or look at Pose. That'll give anyone interested some ideas on specific movements/form to focus on. YMMV

and even people with dreadful running style can be good teachers :-)

Yes, and you never saw me swimming ;-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

[reply]I agree that there are MANY aspects of running just like swimming, but I dont think that they can all be taught. They can be LEARNED, but running is way to "natural" a movement for humans to be taught how to do it. There are a billion things to think about but I firmly believe that the body will learn it on its own much better than a coach can "teach" it.

There are many markers that can be seen along the way to better running form as well, but they are markers, not things that can be taught to do.[/reply]

Wrong. Proper (or at least better) running form can be taught and learned, and relatively quickly even to those to whom it is not natural. That is what the PC's do for people. I think in a nutshell, the PC's force people to do "pose" technique and running improvement naturally follows. Most new PC users pick up a minute per mile in there marathon pace in only a couple of months.

If you want a technical explanation of what they do for the runner go to the web site and download the Aaron Thigpen running video or the PC intro video.

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

it's better this way, I get scared easily :-)

I'm with Herschel on this one. Running is not a technical event and unless you are a complete spastic all the form coaching in the world will not improve your running times. Running will improve your running....and weight loss if you're carrying a few extra lbs.

If you take just the top American runners of the modern era no two of the run alike. Bill Rogers ran with a mixing bowl under each arm and stirred the batter, Joan Benoit was real smooth, Bob Kennedy runs like someone stuck a broomstick up his ass, Adam Goucher leans forward, Meb Keflezighi bounces, and Dathan Ritzenhin gallops. Each of them are immediately recognizable by their unique and individual gaits.

Most people have pretty good running form and don't need coaching. The only really common faults I see are over striding...too low of a cadence and excessive bounce...i.e. too much up and down motion and not enough forward motion. Efficient distance running means keeping a high cadence and minimizing any unnecessary movement...especially vertical movement. The best way to coach bounce out of a runner's gait is have them run a lot of long punishing runs...nothing like learning the hard way, it kinda makes the lesson stick harder.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Your last paragraph kind of denies the first two. Unless you don't think over-striding,c adence, etc, cannot be taught.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I completely agree with Lawolf. Your technique will improve as you run more. Running often will help you with technique and it does not happen over night. I was a serious runner in high school and ran frosh year of college too, but then it gave way to cycling. Just this February I started running again and could barely put together a single 8-minute mile - and that would be the entire workout.

That lasted a week before I was able to string together 2 miles without walking, then three, then four... then suddenly, your body snaps into the groove that evolution has taught it. Last week I went for an 8-mile run at a 7:15 pace and my technique finally felt like I remember it feeling back in the day.

I think Fleck is the guy to talk to when it comes to running. I agree with everything he's said.

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The Dude abides.

Coaching distance runners typically revolves around proper training regimines, not technique. Most research has found that technique in running cannot be effectively "taught", but that with increased experience and time your body will naturally settle on its most efficient "style". I'm not sure that I completely believe this conclusion, studies in this area have some inherent flaws.

The best advice I have gleaned from reading a lot of studies and books about running technique are that

A) your foot should have no forward motion at the exact point of impact with the ground, regardless of which part of you foot hits the ground first. This makes pretty good intuitive sense, if you are trying to run fast you shouln't be beaking with every foot fall.

B) High run cadence (90 or so) is universal for every elite runner at every speed/distance. Also pretty good intuitive sense, for you to slow your cadence you have to go farther with every stride (at a constant speed), this mean that you have to raise your center of mass further the slower you cadence. Logic dictates that moving you mass up and down excessively is wasting energy for distance running.

C) You should be relaxed. Tense muscles in the head, neck, back, arms, hands, etc, is wasting energy.

D) you footstrike should be as gentle as possible. Pounding means moire force to to your body which can lead to injuries.



Styrrell

Not really....I said most people have good form, over striders and bouncers are in the minority of runners. Cadence is very easy to teach or learn...all you have to be able to do is count and remember the number 90...and a few long runs will soon teach bouncers that pushing straight up is not nearly as efficient as pushing forward.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Watch any big marathon, 10K or 5K final from the Olympic Games or World Championships. Watch the top runners. See how the move. Look at and focus on the relaxation, despite the fact that they are running 4:30 min/mile pace. Also, go to a kids soccer game. Watch the kids move and run. Notice the complete inhabition of movement and the shere joy of and for running that the kids have.

I hope this gives you some ideas.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Why, so a bunch of arrogant triathletes will end up injured?

<< B) High run cadence (90 or so) is universal for every elite runner at every speed/distance. Also pretty good intuitive sense, for you to slow your cadence you have to go farther with every stride (at a constant speed), this mean that you have to raise your center of mass further the slower you cadence. Logic dictates that moving you mass up and down excessively is wasting energy for distance running.

A) your foot should have no forward motion at the exact point of impact with the ground, regardless of which part of you foot hits the ground first. This makes pretty good intuitive sense, if you are trying to run fast you shouln't be breaking with every foot fall. >>

Agreed. But, IMNO (in my newbie opinion) I'd put A and B in this order. For me, once I started running exclusively at 90+ cadence, then the braking/overstriding issues pretty much took care of themselves. It's pretty damn hard to heelstrike or overstride or whatever at a 90+ cadence. It didn't feel natural at all (well, especially for long slow or steady runs) at first, but once I got used to it, I'd never run the old way again.



And, since I didn't "naturally" run this way until I read about it (ChiRunning, Pose, etc.) and consciously incorporated it into every run, obviously it is a skill that can be (and SHOULD BE) taught and learned.

$30 Finis Tempo Trainer - the best running coach I ever had. ;-)

Oh yeah, and running more often is a good thing too.

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float , hammer , and jog

The thing is, when looking at top runners, some people like to focus on the differences between them, when instead they should focus on the common things they do, those are one of the things that make them fast.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

True that

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I'll be what I am
A solitary man

What Murphy'sLaw said. That was my experience too. Except the Finis trainer part, which I have no opinion on.

If you are already rail thin..ignore. One obvious quality that world class distance runners have is extremely thin frames. Some body types are naturally heavier. Now, maybe I'll never get my 5’11” frame to 120 lbs but I experienced losing weight when I thought there was not much more to lose. (Even then I had roll of fat on my thighs .) What I learned was in a short amount of time running style changes with poundage. Perhaps a perpetually lightweight person couldn’t know this. I was already in good condition, but lost 20 more lbs. In a very short period of time I could see and feel and measure the differences between plodding and cruising. If you’re really committed to running faster, you must plan for weight loss along with speedwork and technique work. It’s free speed.