Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Desert Duathlon
Quote | Reply
What happened out there? Splits are weird for the pro men especially.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Where are results?

I know lots of the front runners went off course.

speedySTATES
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [fartleker] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
http://results.active.com/...form.jsp?rsID=122546

Looks like a 62 year old woman took first place in the age group race by ~20mins haha
Last edited by: James Haycraft: Mar 10, 12 15:52
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The word I got today was this....

Top 5 or 6 pro men went the wrong way at some point on the run.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
The word I got today was this....

Top 5 or 6 pro men went the wrong way at some point on the run.

Ian

As well as a few of the women, myself, and one or two others I saw. I was in the AG lead. The bike splits for the pros do seem screwy.

speedySTATES
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1st-5th off the bike took a wrong turn on the 2nd run less than a mile in. I heard one guy saying his Garmin had his second run as 13km... about double the length. I do believe at least one of the female racers made the same mistake.

As far as splits, everyone should have accurate splits through T2, but clearly there were some timing issues for a number of the athletes.

Jason Pedersen
RunPd.com - Running as fast I can since '93
@jasonpedersen
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Jason P] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A win is a win no matter what, I think. Nice work.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
7-8 pro men went the wrong way.

The real order if the course was marked better with a volunteer.

1.Chris Foster
2. James Burns
3. Matt Russell
4. Jozsef Major
5 and 6th. Ben Hoffman and Lewis Elliot rounded the top 5.

I heard there was suppose to be a volunteer at this one turn and he got there late.

We were spread out and the turn said right as we were on the main path the went to the right. I guess it was a SHARP right off the main path on a single track. It was not clearly marked at all as 7-8 pro guys all missed it, a number of age groupers and some women pro's. That being said, we (the athletes) are at "fault" even though there was no lead bike, no volunteers with a very poory marked course. To bad the trails didn't have names on them so we could study them on the map. There were so many turns. It would have been a fun course if it was better marked with volunteers. Next time I'll bring a compass/gps as the top 5 guys ran 13.6-14k on the last run (should have been 6k) on this adventure duathlon race :)

Who got the coin/podium:
Jason Pedersen1:59:29Brendan Halpin2:00:18Kevin TaddonioJason Pedersen1:59:29Brendan Halpin2:00:18Kevin Taddonio1. Jason Pedersen
2. Brendan Halpin
3. Kevin Taddonio

http://xcsteeplechaser.blogspot.com/

http://www.MattRussellTri.com -Pro Triathlete -Tri Coach

Sponsored by: Skechers | Diamondback | FitPro | Castelli | Knight Wheels 20% off wheels use code: GOMATTRUSSELL!
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [xcsteeplechaser] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Course reconnaissance
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [vimbike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Course reconnaissance

You are assuming that the trails would have been marked in the first place for them to recon it.

It's sad t see what was such a great race slide backwards the last few years.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here is my take on it today Brian:

http://www.thomasgerlach.com/...n-pro-recap-and.html

In general I never met a course that couldn't be BETTER marked. While at it for those that are red-green color blind, do we really have to have red turn bouys in the water. You know we can't see them against a green backdrop and are practically swimming blind.


Save: $20 on Air Relax Recovery Boots| $100 on Normatec| 15% on The Most Absorbable Magnesium | Best $50 Indoor Cycling Desk | NEW HED JET 6+
Wheelset - $1049 or less


Blogs: QUICK Air Relax Travel Case Review | Q2 Blood Test Results | Why Latex Bikes Tubes | Vittoria Corsa Speed Aero Data | Best Cheap Aero Sunglasses | 10 Reasons To Consider HED JET+
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Jason P] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jason, Congratulations on your win today and on your 17th at Clermont last weekend. Keep up the great work.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes MASTERING triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
desert dude wrote:
In Reply To:
Course reconnaissance


You are assuming that the trails would have been marked in the first place for them to recon it.

Perhaps I am naive, but if you are a pro you have an obligation to yourself to recon the course, if required. And, if markers are not available, then take matters into your own hands, seek out an official prior to race day, and get the course nailed. It is your job and livelihood.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [vimbike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It is often suggested that you bike the run course as a warm-up. In this case the run is off-road so it is a little more difficult to do but there are no excuses. After talking to Kevin Taddonio it sounds like he ran the run course ahead of time and doing so may have been the difference between a paycheck and going home empty-handed.


Save: $20 on Air Relax Recovery Boots| $100 on Normatec| 15% on The Most Absorbable Magnesium | Best $50 Indoor Cycling Desk | NEW HED JET 6+
Wheelset - $1049 or less


Blogs: QUICK Air Relax Travel Case Review | Q2 Blood Test Results | Why Latex Bikes Tubes | Vittoria Corsa Speed Aero Data | Best Cheap Aero Sunglasses | 10 Reasons To Consider HED JET+
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have liked doing the Desert Classic over the past several years, but if pros take a wrong turn you know there is something wrong with the course. I'm pretty sure I know where the wrong turn was. When I came to that spot I had to stop and wait for 2 other guys. The third guy hesitated but then said "right". Apparently there was a turn sign on the steep uphill approach to the turn, which is where I was trying to pass and watching my footing. Easy to miss. The turn sign should have been at the T at the top of the hill. Anyway, the second run was ridiculously technical with several people wiping out. It was more like hiking than running. Last years course was better.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Run Jim] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here's how things unfolded for the pros:

Basically James Burns and I led into T1 with a minute lead off the first run. No problem on that run course, it was marked fine and had plenty of volunteers. I had a strong bike and heard the announcer say I had ridden 1:10. Off onto the second run, I had almost a three minute lead on the next guy (James), and he had a good lead on the third athlete (Matt Russell). So much of a lead that Russell said he never saw Burns coming off the bike. In other words Burns couldn't see me, Russell couldn't see Burns and so on for a while. I ran off onto the trail and saw very few markers, and no volunteers. Even on the bike and through transition I got the sense that they weren't "ready" for me. I ran for a LONG time on criss-crossing trails before seeing a guy on an ATV that said I had gone the wrong way--that I was on the mountain bike course. I turned around, ran for a while, then finally saw the other pros (ALL the other pros) spread out behind me going the same exact way. When I finally got back to the point I had made the wrong turn, suddenly there was a rope with a flag or some other junk funneling the runners the right way. I finished the run course (about 9 mi. for the second leg).

If I had made a wrong turn, fine, I'm an idiot, I'm a pro, that's part of the game. But it wasn't a case of "follow the leader" (we couldn't see each other). Because the guys on the podium were the ONLY pro men who did the right course (take a look at the results: http://results.active.com/...form.jsp?rsID=122546) and were essentially off the back going into T2 (hence came through later), I think it proves someone dropped the ball big time.

-Chris

PS. When we left the race, the first overall amateur off the bike was still missing...

Freelance Writer
Professional Triathlete


Connect with me on LinkedIn
Follow me on Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [vimbike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
vimbike wrote:
desert dude wrote:
In Reply To:
Course reconnaissance


You are assuming that the trails would have been marked in the first place for them to recon it.

Perhaps I am naive, but if you are a pro you have an obligation to yourself to recon the course, if required. And, if markers are not available, then take matters into your own hands, seek out an official prior to race day, and get the course nailed. It is your job and livelihood.

I agree, though in the case of this race, that isn't always an option. The first and second run are split, and they aren't always marked the day before. In fact, I'm trying to remember if the runs have ever been marked the day before. And there aren't necessarily officials or volunteers accessible who could clearly show the run course to you, since it's a long way to walk - impractically far - and to ask an official to escort you on a MTB might simply not be a reality; they do have other things to do.

If the course is accessible to you, then I agree it is your responsibility to know it. But given the nature of this race - like XTerra races - I think there is a greater onus on the race itself to go above and beyond when marking, especially when there are some turns that are distinctly non-obvious.

That being said, this is a very small race with a very small purse - though I appreciate that they have one at all - and if you are relying on races like this to earn your livelihood, that's a bad sign. This race is really a tune-up or a test marker for pros, so I don't think they are expecting the race to put on a world champs caliber event or anything. However, there is still a responsibility to age-group athletes, who are payING to do the race, and who I don't think should have to take the steps you listed to make sure they stay on course...


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | Facebook - Rappstar Racing | @rappstar | I work @ Zwift

Ask me about: DiamondBack Bikes | Zipp | 1st Endurance | Normatec - $100 off RAPP2017 | Quarq | SRAM | MatchRider | Kiwami | ROKA
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rappstar wrote:
vimbike wrote:
desert dude wrote:
In Reply To:
Course reconnaissance


You are assuming that the trails would have been marked in the first place for them to recon it.


Perhaps I am naive, but if you are a pro you have an obligation to yourself to recon the course, if required. And, if markers are not available, then take matters into your own hands, seek out an official prior to race day, and get the course nailed. It is your job and livelihood.


I agree, though in the case of this race, that isn't always an option. The first and second run are split, and they aren't always marked the day before. In fact, I'm trying to remember if the runs have ever been marked the day before. And there aren't necessarily officials or volunteers accessible who could clearly show the run course to you, since it's a long way to walk - impractically far - and to ask an official to escort you on a MTB might simply not be a reality; they do have other things to do.

That being said, this is a very small race with a very small purse - though I appreciate that they have one at all - and if you are relying on races like this to earn your livelihood, that's a bad sign. This race is really a tune-up or a test marker for pros

Yup your right, it is the American way, blame it on somebody else...the rider/the runner ahead of me went that way, the course marshals were absent/dazed/confused, etc. My point was not about the money! The point is, if you chose to make a living at triathlon, then you have a duty to yourself (and your sponsors, oh sorry Zipp, I fucked up and didn't know the course turned sharp right, instead of angled right) to be "fully" prepared on race day. If it takes a "long walk" to recon the run, then so be it. Treat your sport like a real job, show up prepared to race & to win, every time. It is that simple.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's unfortunate that the best athletes on the day went off course and blew it.

I ran both run courses before the race and got totally lost on the 2nd run course because it was hard to tell where the first right turn was. When I reconned the course I missed the first turn and ended up miles off course (I think this was one of the turns that was missed). On race day, at the time the first athletes came through, there were small inconspicuous signs posting the turns. No chalk, no ropes, no flags, no volunteers. Had I not gone back and reviewed the course after I got lost in practice, I would probably still be running through McDowell Mtn Reserve right now.

It's too bad that after the race, and a poor one for me, the best athletes came in a half hour later. I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth by getting prize money for finishing 3rd. Ill be the first to admit that I was outclassed by Foster and company, but they got lost.

I think the biggest faux pax of the day was when the race director tried to have an impromptu pro meeting ex post facto to see if the top three guys wanted to give some of the pros that went off course some of our prize money. That was really awkward and shouldn't have happened. I hope to never be put in that situation again. I felt it created unnecessary animosity...if the race director wanted to pull something put of his pocket to maintain goodwill, that would have been more appropriate.



http://www.triandcatchme.com
https://twitter.com/kevintaddonio
Last edited by: kevintaddonio: Mar 11, 12 10:51
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [kevintaddonio] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kevintaddonio wrote:
I think the biggest faux pax of the day was when the race director tried to have an impromptu pro meeting ex post facto to see if the top three guys wanted to give some of the pros that went off course some of our prize money. That was really awkward and shouldn't have happened. I hope to never be put in that situation again. I felt it created unnecessary animosity...if the race director wanted to pull something put of his pocket to maintain goodwill, that would have been more appropriate.

That sounds really weird. Definitely super awkward.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [vimbike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In Reply To:
Yup your right, it is the American way, blame it on somebody else.......My point was not about the money! The point is, if you chose to make a living at triathlon, then you have a duty to yourself.... to be "fully" prepared on race day. If it takes a "long walk" to recon the run, then so be it. Treat your sport like a real job, show up prepared to race & to win, every time. It is that simple.

It's rather obvious judging by your responses you've never raced at this venue, maybe not at any venue, you are very, very new to racing and/or you've lead very few races. So let me clear a few things up for you.

It seems the course wasn't wasn't marked at that turn when the leaders went through. Yes everyone should have looked at the maps, but it's also the RD's responsibility to set things up. Fail on both ends.

There are a ton of trails out there, it's like a maze. I'm looking for your expert judgement here. On the first unmarked turn, should I go straight or right? If I chose to go straight should I turn at the next unmarked trail or the one following that? If I turn right will I need to turn at the next trail or the one after that? You seem to know so much, so please tell me based upon your experience.

You've probably never been at a poorly marked race. I have, hell, I've been in the lead of poorly marked races where even the lead vehicle, which happened to have someone from the race crew asked me which way to go. Shit happens, turns don't get marked. Police, volunteers, the RD don't show up, mark things properly, set up in the wrong spot etc. If you do actually race, please realize that not every RD is going to mark every turn, sometimes volunteers even send you the wrong way, some times the RD screws up.

Third, are you so finely conditioned that you can show up race morning, head out for a 3.7 mile run before the race to learn the second run? Are you also going to go run the first run? What about the bike? I'm guessing from your posts that you are so fit that you probably do the race before the race just to make sure you know where you are going?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, and don't read it that way. but when you obviously have no idea about the area, how the trail system is, (especially given that this is the first year on this specific course although last year was the 2nd year using this trail system & it's a brand new RD this year) I'm not sure you should be making blanket proclamations. It's very easy to armchair quarterback from where ever you are, but it's much harder to actually play quarterback. So with some jest I say welcome to the fantasy ST football league.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In this instance the course was marked the day before the race. As Kevin mentioned I could see how the turn could be confusing looking back at it, but having the benefit of seeing it the day before made all the difference.


Save: $20 on Air Relax Recovery Boots| $100 on Normatec| 15% on The Most Absorbable Magnesium | Best $50 Indoor Cycling Desk | NEW HED JET 6+
Wheelset - $1049 or less


Blogs: QUICK Air Relax Travel Case Review | Q2 Blood Test Results | Why Latex Bikes Tubes | Vittoria Corsa Speed Aero Data | Best Cheap Aero Sunglasses | 10 Reasons To Consider HED JET+
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How much grief did the RD recieve from this incident? Although, it sounds like from the last post that the course was in fact marked (to a degree) the day before.

Did the pro's say anything about the potential mishap before the event?

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did the race and agree with Desert Dude - it is maze out there. I have also been racing and riding in McDowell Park and all the Phoenix area parks for more than 15 years. If I knew that I had a shot to be in the lead in a running or bike race in any one of the parks I would try to run or ride the course in advance. I understand that is not always possible because that adds time and cost for out of town folks.

One thing I am curious about is whether Chris Foster and the other leaders are experienced trail runners, mountain bike racers, or Xterra racers. I have done quite a few of these races over the years and in every one I have encountered at least one spot where there was a question as to which way to go. I went off course just a few weeks ago in a trail race in North Scottsdale. At least in local trail races in the Phoenix area, if you expect to be in the lead you better know the course pretty well or there is a reasonable probability of going wrong. I would not expect this to happen at Xterra worlds but it happens all the time at local races around here.
Quote Reply
Re: Desert Duathlon [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Spot on.
This was my first year racing Desert Classic. Having moved to Phoenix several months ago, I had the opportunity to train out at this park. Although even with my best attempts to recon the course, the posted maps/descriptions were not sufficient. I had heard from several local experienced triathletes and mountain bikers that this RD's specialty includes poorly marked courses and lots of disorganization. I hoped for the best.

Coming out of T2, I was 20 sec behind 2nd place. I missed the turn that the others referenced, which was a sharp right onto a single track from the main trail. I did not see any sign, flag, or volunteer. I continued racing (or so I thought) when a volunteer on a quad rolled up and told me I missed the turn. When I followed him back I realized I had run a full mile out of my way. My race was over.

I spoke with the RD afterwards, who acknowledged that the volunteer should have been there but was late to his post (which makes sense why the fastest guys missed the turn... not sure how Linsey and Lisa saw it), and he also said that there was a small sign but the volunteer hadn't put the flag out yet. According to him, it was still my fault. From an official standpoint, I can't argue with that.

But when nearly half the pro field and multiple age groupers (who paid for the race) go off course, it says something about the organization and management of the event. It is a shame, and simply didn't need to happen. Of course the easy answer is "it's the pros' responsibility to know the course." And it is... if the maps are accurate, the course is well marked, and the venue is accessible. Common sense dictates that if there is a sharp turn off the main trail, then a sign, flag, and/or volunteer is warranted. My opinion is that management of the event failed the athletes in providing that, which he acknowledged was the intention.



Rappstar wrote:
vimbike wrote:
desert dude wrote:
In Reply To:
Course reconnaissance


You are assuming that the trails would have been marked in the first place for them to recon it.


Perhaps I am naive, but if you are a pro you have an obligation to yourself to recon the course, if required. And, if markers are not available, then take matters into your own hands, seek out an official prior to race day, and get the course nailed. It is your job and livelihood.


I agree, though in the case of this race, that isn't always an option. The first and second run are split, and they aren't always marked the day before. In fact, I'm trying to remember if the runs have ever been marked the day before. And there aren't necessarily officials or volunteers accessible who could clearly show the run course to you, since it's a long way to walk - impractically far - and to ask an official to escort you on a MTB might simply not be a reality; they do have other things to do.

If the course is accessible to you, then I agree it is your responsibility to know it. But given the nature of this race - like XTerra races - I think there is a greater onus on the race itself to go above and beyond when marking, especially when there are some turns that are distinctly non-obvious.

That being said, this is a very small race with a very small purse - though I appreciate that they have one at all - and if you are relying on races like this to earn your livelihood, that's a bad sign. This race is really a tune-up or a test marker for pros, so I don't think they are expecting the race to put on a world champs caliber event or anything. However, there is still a responsibility to age-group athletes, who are payING to do the race, and who I don't think should have to take the steps you listed to make sure they stay on course...


-----------------------

Amy Kloner
Quote Reply

Prev Next