My custom Hed3disc

Dec 1, 11 13:54

Post #1 of 26 (9203 views)

A while ago, I bought a rear Hed3 from the classifieds here and decided to convert it to a disc in the same way that ClutchCargo has with a number of his rear Hed3's. It wasn't too difficult, I just put some foam core board between the spokes and covered each side with 1 sheet of carbon fiber. Here are some pics.

First I put the rough cutout of carbon over the wheel using some 3m adhesive spray to stick it into place. I put that square of duct tape in the middle there so as to keep the carbon from fraying when cutting the hole for the freehub. You can see that the edges still need to be trimmed.

I trimmed the edges and put resin on the whole thing. I was stupid and thought that by putting the wax paper over everything, I could get a matte finish that wouldn't stick to the resin. It didn't stick, and gave a cool matte finish, but left areas that weren't covered by resin and I would end up sanding it a lot anyway.

After the resin set, you can see that the majority has the matte finish but there are places which lacked resin. I ended up putting more resin on top and re-sanding.

Here's the disc after about 20hrs of sanding by hand to take off all the extra resin I put on. The other side looks similar. All those white spots are tiny indents where there had been an air bubble and resin powder got into.

The finished product after about 40hrs of sanding total. I clear coated with a satin finish clear coat. It's still got some blemishes but I was happy with the outcome.

Another shot with Hed decals on.

A few pics with the disc on my rig.

Sorry for the bad quality of some of the pics, they were a combo of cell phone and DSLR photos. A fun project that took waaaaayyy too long!

I have a carbon saddle project in progress right now, and I will post up pics from that when I'm done.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 14:54

Post #2 of 26 (9111 views)

But... is it a faster wheel now?

Re: My custom Hed3disc [Cake] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 15:01

Post #3 of 26 (9096 views)

Maybe not, but it looks cool and that's what it's really all about right?

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 15:20

Post #4 of 26 (9060 views)

timskee wrote:

Maybe not, but it looks cool and that's what it's really all about right?

Sure, if you are happy then that's the goal isn't it my furry little friend.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 15:46

Post #5 of 26 (9017 views)

Very nice; looks great.

Not sure I'd have the patience to do the 40hrs of sanding though.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 15:57

Post #6 of 26 (8994 views)

Cool exercise. Lotta work, but still cool and probably got you out of mowing the lawns at least :-)

Would it have made more sense to have simply cut the cloth to say 1/2" up to the rim, from inner edge of the rim, rather than taking the additional layer of cloth all the way to the braking surface? then just faired it in, with say, just 2 hours of sanding?

Would a couple of layers of that shrink wrap plastic, with double sided tape at the inner edge of the rim section, have worked just as well, for less money, less time, less weight and less hassle?

Next time, maybe vacuum bag it to get better resin flow/coverage, with less sanding required. Next time, take the freehub body off to make life a bit easier for yourself (just takes a 10mm allen key I think)

Did you use a cold layup method or autoclave/bake it?

That said, it IS nice monolithic, seamless look. Well done.

(where did you buy the carbon? and do they sell pre-preg? I have an idea for a disc made from pre-preg and also some accessories made from the left over pre-preg scraps)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 16:14

Post #7 of 26 (8971 views)

sweet

Re: My custom Hed3disc [tridork] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 17:02

Post #8 of 26 (8926 views)

Would it have made more sense to have simply cut the cloth to say 1/2" up to the rim, from inner edge of the rim, rather than taking the additional layer of cloth all the way to the braking surface? then just faired it in, with say, just 2 hours of sanding?

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here but initially I thought that I would be able to use the brake track as a guide to cut the cloth. I considered just filling the spaces between the spokes instead of covering the entire thing, but I wanted a uniform weave across the whole disc instead of having fibers going every which way by using separate pieces.

Would a couple of layers of that shrink wrap plastic, with double sided tape at the inner edge of the rim section, have worked just as well, for less money, less time, less weight and less hassle?

I definitely considered other materials like black fiberglass and shrink wrap stuff that looks like carbon and even plastics, but in the end I really love carbon fiber so I decided to just go all out. Even though it's not structural, I still like the idea of full carbon instead of some other material.

Next time, maybe vacuum bag it to get better resin flow/coverage, with less sanding required. Next time, take the freehub body off to make life a bit easier for yourself (just takes a 10mm allen key I think)

I wish I could've vacuum bagged, and I looked into it, but it would have just been a little too expensive for me. I'm looking into it for my saddles though since they're a little smaller and I actually have a mold for it.

Did you use a cold layup method or autoclave/bake it?

I did a wet layup at about 80F so I guess you'd consider that cold. It would be awesome to use prepreg and an autoclave, and I have one available to me in a lab I work in, but it's a lot more expensive than plain cloth and I don't know if I have the know-how to use it correctly. I bought my carbon from a seller on eBay named Elite Motoring that sells different kinds of carbon fiber fabrics and panels and I think they sell prepreg too but I'm not too sure. Fibreglast.com sells prepreg if you're looking for some but it's a little pricey (at least for me).
</htm

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 17:19

Post #9 of 26 (8898 views)

timskee wrote:

Would it have made more sense to have simply cut the cloth to say 1/2" up to the rim, from inner edge of the rim, rather than taking the additional layer of cloth all the way to the braking surface? then just faired it in, with say, just 2 hours of sanding?

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here but initially I thought that I would be able to use the brake track as a guide to cut the cloth. I considered just filling the spaces between the spokes instead of covering the entire thing, but I wanted a uniform weave across the whole disc instead of having fibers going every which way by using separate pieces.

I have a HED3 set of wheels and they are made of multiple pieces in the layup, so I think NOT going right out to the braking surface would have looked fine? Just filling in the triangular-ish holes?

Would a couple of layers of that shrink wrap plastic, with double sided tape at the inner edge of the rim section, have worked just as well, for less money, less time, less weight and less hassle?

I definitely considered other materials like black fiberglass and shrink wrap stuff that looks like carbon and even plastics, but in the end I really love carbon fiber so I decided to just go all out. Even though it's not structural, I still like the idea of full carbon instead of some other material.

Next time, maybe vacuum bag it to get better resin flow/coverage, with less sanding required. Next time, take the freehub body off to make life a bit easier for yourself (just takes a 10mm allen key I think)

I wish I could've vacuum bagged, and I looked into it, but it would have just been a little too expensive for me. I'm looking into it for my saddles though since they're a little smaller and I actually have a mold for it.

A small vacuum pump can be bough fairly cheaply according to my son, who wants to join me in making carbon fibre toys! He even wants to commandeer the terrible stove we have to use the bits to make a home built autoclave. TriSpouse has over-ruled that one for now!

Did you use a cold layup method or autoclave/bake it?

I did a wet layup at about 80F so I guess you'd consider that cold. It would be awesome to use prepreg and an autoclave, and I have one available to me in a lab I work in, but it's a lot more expensive than plain cloth and I don't know if I have the know-how to use it correctly. I bought my carbon from a seller on eBay named Elite Motoring that sells different kinds of carbon fiber fabrics and panels and I think they sell prepreg too but I'm not too sure. Fibreglast.com sells prepreg if you're looking for some but it's a little pricey (at least for me).

Without a temp of 150deg or so, it counts as cold layup. I did a composite canoe many years ago, and one thing the directions suggested was doing the layup work as warm as you could get the room, and as soon as you are finished with the layup, turn the heat off and let the room cool down. This makes any minute bubbles that might be in the resin, shrink as it cools/goes off. Thanks for the heads up on the source for carbon. I've tried here in New Zealand and everyone seems to think it's made from left over dark matter from the big bang!

</htm

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: My custom Hed3disc [tridork] [ In reply to ]

Dec 1, 11 17:27

Post #10 of 26 (8877 views)

Nice job! I love a good DIY project! Where'd you source the CF?

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

PeacefulWarrior

Dec 1, 11 17:43

Post #11 of 26 (8853 views)

Nice work! Looks great.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [tridork] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 14:29

Post #12 of 26 (8587 views)

It's semi-structural, isn't it? Surely you got a good enough of a bond to the pre-existing structure that the top ply takes some of the loads?

__________________________

I tweet!

Re: My custom Hed3disc [ZackC.] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 14:39

Post #13 of 26 (8570 views)

ZackC. wrote:

It's semi-structural, isn't it? Surely you got a good enough of a bond to the pre-existing structure that the top ply takes some of the loads?

Technically I guess you are right. The additional carbon layer will provide additional strength, it's not structurally required. It's really only for aerodynamic benefit. The new carbon wouldn't stand up on its own, while the existing H3 wheel would (and did) stand up on it's own. Splitting hairs for sure :-)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 14:46

Post #14 of 26 (8556 views)

looks good, but next time rent a large compressor and a DA. 40 hours is about 39 too much. How is the balance of the wheel?

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 15:28

Post #15 of 26 (8499 views)

Looks nice and I admire the DIY ethos, but damn... 40 hours, not even counting whatever time & materials went into it beyond the sanding?!? For what 40 hours of my time is worth to my employer, I could just go buy a new Hed Jet disc or a used Zipp 900 disc.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 15:49

Post #16 of 26 (8463 views)

Well, I'm a poor college student so my time is cheap. And the lessons I've learned from this project will save me time in current and future projects so it wasn't a total waste.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 16:22

Post #17 of 26 (8407 views)

I saw the first couple of pics and was ready to laugh at how shite it looked. I think it looks great though. Sure, 40 hours is a lot but you learn along the way. Nice one, I think it looks great in the final pics.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 16:25

Post #18 of 26 (8401 views)

Thats really cool man, good job.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Dec 14, 11 16:25

Post #19 of 26 (8401 views)

Wow, 40 hours of sanding, now that's dedication. Nice work.

I used to have a disk just like this, the Hed 3D disk. It was only on the market a short time. I bought it second hand. It was a very cool looking wheel, although it was pretty out of true, I had to have the rear brake pads opened up pretty far. I eventually sold it at a pretty tidy profit despite an ebay description that was very honest about the trueness and some cosmetic blems it had. I guess it's a bit of a collector's item.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Sep 15, 12 11:46

Post #20 of 26 (6871 views)

I really appreciate the time you took to post your project and take pictures.

My biggest question in thinking about how to do this before I found your post and saw the wheels of Clutch Cargo was the large voids between the spokes. I could not think of how to keep them flat and square to the spokes without a mold of some sort.

Later in the thread someone suggests a vacuum bag and I know about using these when veneering wood but it still leave the question of how to deal with the large open space between the spokes and keeping it straight.

Any thoughts or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Take care, and nice job!

brucegseidner(at)mac(dot)com

Re: My custom Hed3disc [brucegseidner] [ In reply to ]

Sep 15, 12 12:12

Post #21 of 26 (6829 views)

I just took foam core poster board ( http://www.staples.com/...-inch/product_909169 ) and cut it in the same shape as the voids. I was then able to fill the voids to have a surface onto which I could tack down the carbon before putting the resin on. Since the leading/trailing edges of the spokes are quite sharp, the foam core was able to seat nicely in the voids without the need for gluing or taping it to the wheel which I had initially thought might be a problem.

This method worked great for filling the voids. Of course there are some slight blemishes in the final product, but you really have to inspect the wheel up close to find them.

Hopefully I answered your question!

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Sep 15, 12 12:49

Post #22 of 26 (6766 views)

Aha, that makes sense.

And so the encouragement to use a vacuum bag would arguably make it conform more closely to the spoke and foam board. In my experience that would not add much given the wetting of the resin to the cloth would create enough weight for it to fully comply with the underlying spoke/foam board form. I am going to look for a another tri-spoke and it might be a fun winter project.

Given that this is basically a sail and not structural I think I am going to use a thinner cloth and I wonder if it is necessary to use cloth on both sides of the wheel.

It seems that the non drive side would be easier to cloth and resin. One could then prep the whole wheel and throw a light coat of paint on it.

My thinking is this would weigh less and do the same job.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [brucegseidner] [ In reply to ]

Sep 15, 12 12:57

Post #23 of 26 (6750 views)

You could definitely use a vacuum bag, but honestly, it might be more hassle than what it's worth. You might save a little weight by sucking out the extra resin, but my guess would be that it probably wouldn't be a significant percentage. One layer might do the trick, but in my opinion, I'd stick with 2 if for nothing else than to keep it looking good. And, both sides were pretty much the same difficulty as far as working around the freehub/NDS hub.

Also for anyone interested, this wheel is for sale! http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=timskee;#4166040

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Sep 15, 12 13:19

Post #24 of 26 (6716 views)

You are likely correct about clothing both sides. But I will see. If I use a finer weave cloth and the wheel is painted it might be hard to tell which is the cloth side.

You have been a champ and I appreciate the help.

Best of luck and health.

Re: My custom Hed3disc [timskee] [ In reply to ]

Sep 15, 12 13:34

Post #25 of 26 (6683 views)

Holy resin weight. Maybe next time look into resin infusion. It's a lot like vac bagging, but instead of wicking off the extra resin, you only inject the correct amount. Super easy, you only need peel ply, some resin flow media. a surface to seal too, bagging material, tacky tape, and a vacuum pump. I'm sure someone would allow you to borrow the pump. I'd recon it could save you 200g over wet lay.

If you're going to wet lay, try peel ply instead of wax paper, should give a nicer finish and allow you to squeegie out some of the excess resin.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.