Did everyone forget Lance bonking in 2000?

---

'STICK EM UP PUNK ITS THE FUN LOVING CRIMINAL'

He also bonked on 2004 (a time trial I can't remember the name of the stage)...

the versus announcers also can't remember whether it was floyd or oscar that is a past tour winner

---

---

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

"Are you tired of being tired?"

Lance should send AC a box of FSR....

I think it was the 2003 TT where he went so bad that he turned pale, got his ace kicked by Ulrich, and it went down to the Final rainy TT to determine the winner that year.

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

TdF 2003 Stage 12, 47 km TT, not so much a bonk as a heat related - dehydration issue.

It was 40 c ~ 104 F. I think that Armstong was ~9-12lbs down on the day following the race reflecting a significant % dehydration.
2003 was LA's 5th TdF win - so was this day with a relative poor performance (Armstrong was ~ 95 seconds off of Ulrich) a novice mistake?
Probably not so much as a tendency to be heat intolerant.
I guess Armstrong would argue that you can only take in / absorb so much fluid under effort as compared to good caloric intake throughout the event and post event.

I rode ~40 miles that day (and was also miserable as it felt like a furnace) and watched the leaders at ~ 300m from the finish at a slight incline - still remember riders coming by within arms reach and wondering why they would come so close to spectators when they had the entire road to themselves.

The heat wave in France during July and August 2003 was said to have resulted in ~14,000 deaths.

-KLG

What? We dont care WHY, we dont need an EXCUSE - he bonked, end of story. We are human, we mess up, we suffer for that. I suppose if Obama was president then he would have sent Lance a "Bail Out" of "Five Hour Energy". At the end of the day, he bonked....could give a shit why.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Woo dude. I think he was being a historian and providing the details for people. Chill

---

---

"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

Reflecting on that ITT back in 2003, I think this was only the second time Ullrich beat Lance in a ITT (the other being the 2000 Olympics in Sydney). Ullrich warmed up indoors with A/C and did not preview the course earlier that day - Lance did ride the course (or portions) and also warmed up outside. Both moves helped Jan that day.

I'm really going to miss Jan this year - the battles were classic Skywalker vs. Vader (I'll let you determine who was Luke and who was Vader).

Dave in VA

I know that, but still - no excuses, he bonked. Dehydration can be "bonk", there is no text book medical term..."Well Lance had his blood sugar at blah blah blah" or "Lance had blood as thick as peanut butter due to blah blah blah"...he bonked.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

 
What? We dont care WHY, we dont need an EXCUSE - he bonked, end of story. We are human, we mess up, we suffer for that. I suppose if Obama was president then he would have sent Lance a "Bail Out" of "Five Hour Energy". At the end of the day, he bonked....could give a shit why. I know that, but still - no excuses, he bonked. Dehydration can be "bonk", there is no text book medical term..."Well Lance had his blood sugar at blah blah blah" or "Lance had blood as thick as peanut butter due to blah blah blah"...he bonked.[/reply]


By the above responses, it is obvious that if my post is read alone and not in the context of the flow of the thread it may be thought of as an excuse for Armstrong's poor performance in stage 12 of the 2003 TdF.

Reading the thread, it appears that some contributors (thesnail, & OP Miguelon) questioned Armstrong's criticism of Contador's performance as Armstrong himself has had similar poor performances in the past.
The questioning of Armstrong's criticism implied to me that they (thesnail, & OP Miguelon) thought the causation of both Armstrong's and Contador's poor performance was the same.
My response was simply an attempt to lay the foundation by which Armstrong most likely feels justified in being critical of Contador - the different physiological mechanisms behind their respective poor performances.
The "We are human, we mess up, we suffer for that." and "he would have sent Lance a "Bail Out" of "Five Hour Energy" suggests an incomplete understanding of the physiological differences as well. This comment comes even after my response and attempt to differentiate so I obviously failed to communicate effectively.

Please entertain my attempt at clarification:

Armstrong's poor performance Contador's
Time: ~1:00 hr ~4:45
Distance: 47 km TT 192 km RR
Temp: 104 degree 54 degree

Causation: dehydration / heat illness glycogen depletion + other causes.

Treatment: fluids / cooling carbohydrate

Armstrong lost ~14lbs or ~9% of his body weight.
Armstrong's poor performance was due to dehydration and not due to glycogen depletion.
Contador's poor showing was likely glycogen depletion.

The GI tract can absorb only a small portion of what is lost via evaporative cooling - eg. ~1 L/hr versus 4-6 L/hr.
In certain conditions an athlete will be in negative fluid balance even with great attempts at taking in fluids.

An athlete cannot control his/her evaporative cooling fluid losses - other than limiting exposure as Runguy hinted at, which may or may not have prevented Armstrong's sub-par performance.

An athlete can in normal situations control what caloric intake he/she takes in before and after an activity and somewhat during the activity.

Thus Armstrong does have a position to be somewhat critical of Contador's performance ------ my initial post purpose.

..."Well Lance had his blood sugar at blah blah blah"
Hypoglycemia rarely occurs even in the presence of glycogen depletion even though performance is being affected.

"We dont care WHY, we dont need an EXCUSE - he bonked, end of story."
I don't know if the "We" referred to is the entire Slowtwitch reader population but I can only imagine that someone on the Slowtwitch board can benefit from the distinction of the differences and perhaps take something away to better their own performance - the "WHY".

The term "bonk" is generally used to describe the lack of energy and performance declination that occurs when glycogen stores are depleted.
Although one may not find a text book medical term it doesn't mean that there is not a generally agreed upon usage among physiologist / nutritionist / medical professionals.
I would think that most on Slowtwitch have a general understanding of the term. Perhaps Dan can poll the readers as to their definition.

If we all want to agree to use the term to describe a poor performance of various etiologies that would be fine with me but would be somewhat confusing.
Does he "bonked" on the swim mean he lost 2 units of blood from a lower extremity shark bite? Does "bonking" on the bike mean he flatted and didn't have a spare?

I don't think that anyone can find a quote from Armstrong in regards to that TT performance in which he says "That's it guys - I just flat-out bonked" and I would imagine one would be laughed at by Armstrong when asking him "hey, tell me about that time you bonked in the TT in '03".

I would suggest that the generally accepted definition and usage of the term be accepted here at Slowtwitch as well, but if everyone decides otherwise please let me know.

-KLG

Alberto at least can keep the rubber side down. Armstrong seems to have lost that ability.

---

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

---

Live long and surf!