I think he also implied that it does not apply to triathlons unless you are a drafter. Are you are a drafter?

:-)

Cervelo's Gérard Vroomen's wrote an excellent and informative commentary on this. While I respect Leonard Zinn, I believe that he should stick to commentary on repairing bicycles. Here is the thread with Gerhard's two posts that are well worth reading if one interested in aero design technology. His two posts are about 2/3's of the way down the thread. http://forums.cervelo.com/forums/t/3192.aspx

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09 Cervelo P3
09 Pinarello Prince
10 Stevens Carbon Team

Whoa, if you scroll down on that same page, there is more Slowtwitch blasphemy:


Cue the ST tire police in 3..... 2...... 1.......

Who posted that?

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09 Cervelo P3
09 Pinarello Prince
10 Stevens Carbon Team

Paul Lew, founder of Lew Racing.

On the same page:
http://www.velonews.com/...d-zinn-weight-v-wind

Scroll down to the "High Pressure and Carbon Rims" question.

I don't surpose that Vroomen's "informative commentary" has anything to do with marketing...............hmmmm.

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http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/

 
Hey...just because you have articles published in cycling/tri publications, or you make cycling parts, it doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're talking about ;-)

...unless, of course, you have data to back you up :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

sure it does--but did he say anything that was materially incorrect? not that I could see...

Zinn didn't do any math on the hill climbing claim, he just states it, and the math says he is wrong.

and he is completely wrong about the aero frames only working in a narrow band of yaw angles.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

yes.

1. he said aero frames are a hindrance in crosswinds. when in fact the good frames drag actually go down at medium yaw angles and are still far lower than normal frames at high yaw angles. this is confirmed by some of Tom A's independent testing and anyone else who ever put a decent aero bike in a wind tunnel

2. he said the aerodynamics is useless going uphill. here math disagrees, this one is debateable because perhaps the math oversimplifies the problem

3. he said in a pack the aerodynamics is useless. I would disagree, you would still be working a bit less hard. again, debateable since its hard to test this.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I would think it has more to do with his Engineering degree, years of experience building/designing bikes and many hours in the wind tunnels than anything else.

I almost posted a link to that article yesterday, but I didn't wan't to seem like Jordan piling on Friel... Seriously, how does one guy get it wrong so often?

What I really don't understand, both from Zinn and from the responders on the Cervelo forum, are the comments that aerodynamics don't matter in the pack. Have any of these people ever actually raced a bicycle before, seriously?? Sitting in the pack, the main force you have to overcome is, guess what: wind resistance. Sitting in a pack certainly reduces wind resistance, but it doesn't eliminate it. Flat, windy races break apart in the crosswind sections--yes, even in the pack...

What a lot of people just don't seem to understand is that even in hilly races, every single watt saved adds up when it finally hits the fan. Frame aerodynamics is several orders of magnitude less important than pack positioning and the rider's position on the bike--but it's still a small component (as Gerard said himself, a 1.5% improvement or something like that). Still, every bit adds up--unless you have watts to burn...

I was talking about Gerard--not Zinn.... Pretty much everything Zinn said was incorrect...

I Needs to be factored in that Zinn may be Biased by the fact that he is about seven feet tall. A lifetime of racing bikes and never feeling a draft would change ones outlook

oops, sorry =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Hey, Zinn's an expert. Who are you to diss him? Haven't you been paying attention around here?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I know, I know--he's written a book and everything! What the hell have I done besides some bitter internet posts?

I guess I've never really let go of this one. I'm still waiting for Contador to bust out that 38 mph TT..........

He wrote a book? Did it have the word "Bible" in the title or something?

500W for an hour. Maybe for small values of 500...

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I've got one interesting observation from when I was trying out my double Jet90 setup in some group ride situations with crosswinds prior to using them in a road race. I found that running the deep wheels makes it REALLY easy to find the drafting "sweet spot" behind another rider when winds are coming from the side...the deeper wheels actually make it easier to feel the differences ;-)

Yeah...I know that's about wheels...but, what's good for the wheels is good for the frame, I say :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Do you apply the same skepticism to Mr. Zinn when he writes about crank lengths? ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

funny, I notice the exact same thing - especially when I have my Jet 90 on front. You can really tell where to get in an echelon then. Interesting ...

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

So when did gravity change that makes aero more important then weight going 12mph uphill?, It does not take math to figure out less weight is more of a factor than earo at these speeds.

Sounds like weight and ceramic bearings are important, which is totally contradictory to every ST post - not just on hills.......

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http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/