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When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah
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To anyone who hasn't done the Santa Barbara Long Course race and lives in Cali, you definitely should. Interesting distances(1 mile, 34m, 10m), great atmosphere, well run, and for those interested in the hottie thread, TONS of terrific scenery. The swim is great, the bike has some good climbing and technical sections and the run is mostly along the beach. I didn't like the "touch and go" section on the bike, but it was a VERY sharp turn at the bottom of a steep hill. Also, I'm not sure if they always do that - apparently there were some course changes due to construction.

It was my 1st race on the rotors and it went quite well. I can't definitively state that my increase in speed is solely due to them but I would say they've surely contributed. Strangely, I don't notice any difference in my pedal stroke when going back and forth between bikes and never really have. There was an initial drop off in speed but after a couple of weeks that was reversed. I switched to a 12-25 after checking out the course as there are some short steep sections and rarely much chance to use a 54-11 due to the technical nature of the course, and that worked great. I was a little worried about my legs possibly feeling more fatigued than usual on the run due to the rotors but that certainly didn't happen. I was able to run at a fairly good pace w/o redlining, even though I'm not in top run form right now, so that certainly wasn't an issue. This was also one of the few races where my bike split ranked even or better than my run split so I guess the rotors passed the test.

Here's what I'm fed up with(begin whining):


They just posted the splits and I finished 6th of 66 in men's 30-34. I left a little in the tank on all three legs due to my impending IM, but definitely still raced, just not to my usual feeling like I want to die pace. Here's what hurts - my AG split rankings were 50/66 on the swim, 2/66 on the bike(incl. T1&T2) and 3/66 on the run. I'm gave up 4:50 - 10:20 in the swim to the guys who finished ahead of me! Certainly nothing new, it's just starting to annoy me a bit more.

I know, I know that's why it's called TRIathlon and I need to get my ass in the pool more often. But here's the question: should I completely start from scratch after IMW and reconstruct my stroke from the bottom up? Is it possible to re-learn how to swim and to truly develop a feel for the water as an adult? If I spend all winter stretching my inflexible ankles, will that help at all? I've already decided that I need at least some one-on ones if I can't afford regular private lessons. Is it even possible to make it to the upper 1/3 or even the top 1/2 if you've been swimming for 4 years and can't break out of the BOP?

I am SO envious of you good swimmers - you make it look so easy and even when I'm doing an "easy" 200, it feels like work.

(done whining)
Last edited by: jaylew: Sep 1, 04 10:02
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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"But here's the question: should I completely start from scratch after IMW and reconstruct my stroke from the bottom up? Is it possible to re-learn how to swim and to truly develop a feel for the water as an adult? If I spend all winter stretching my inflexible ankles, will that help at all? I've already decided that I need at least some one-on ones if I can't afford regular private lessons. Is it even possible to make it to the upper 1/3 or even the top 1/2 if you've been swimming for 4 years and can't break out of the BOP? "






It can be done, but not on your own. You'll need outside help from someone that knows what they're doing. One on one sessions definitely a plus.

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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I know, I know that's why it's called TRIathlon and I need to get my ass in the pool more often.

Start there. How much swimming have you been doing, relative to biking and running?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Is it possible to re-learn how to swim and to truly develop a feel for the water as an adult? If I spend all winter stretching my inflexible ankles, will that help at all? I've already decided that I need at least some one-on ones if I can't afford regular private lessons. Is it even possible to make it to the upper 1/3 or even the top 1/2 if you've been swimming for 4 years and can't break out of the BOP?


I hope my swim story will give you some hope. I started swim training when I was 26, having learned to swim as a kid, but never having been on a team or even thought about technique prior to that. I joined a small masters group (like 5 people), and had the good fortune to have an on-deck coach who really helped. I watched videos of great swimmers; I read books on technique; I did lots of drills; I thought about technique all the time when swimming. In two years, I was under 1:58 for 200free SCY. Three years later after that, 1:53, and 5:17 for 500. Not very good for a swimmer, but more than up to the task for a triathlete.

By all means, you need to get someone to watch you swim; what you think you are doing and what you really are doing are probably quite different.

In any case, it will take dedication on your part to put in the time and effort to learn how to swim correctly (or at least better).

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [smartasscoach] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
It can be done, but not on your own. You'll need outside help from someone that knows what they're doing. One on one sessions definitely a plus.


I'll introduce you to my sister for some private lessons ;)

Damn, you're in Portugal, aren't you?
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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Get a coach. You will probably never have a "true" feel of the water but you can stop getting your ass kicked on the swim :)
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [JayC] [ In reply to ]
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You will probably never have a "true" feel of the water

Why not?








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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First a question on the Rotors. Are you using the 54-42 or the 54-39? I'm using the 54 39, and like the extra low end that gives me.

On your swim question, it's all about improving efficiency. If you have the opportunity to do underwater (or "track") video, go for it. Someone in the shape you're in shouldn't lose that much on the swim, and it's obiously NOT a case of insufficient cardiovascular fitness. It's all about swim mechanics:
1- Hand entry giving slight downforce and causing the arm and shoulder to move/get sucked forward
2- Initial outsweep (very small, but body rotation tends to draw the extended are inward, so the outsweep needs to be more than you think).
3- Catch: hand sweeps in, elbow moves up, fingers point down.
4- Finally engage the lats and pull.

If you don't do butterfly, learn it. The freestyle stroke gets stronger when you learn the hourglass arm sweep of the butterfly. Are you in SF? Check with Holden Hardcastle, the guy is awesome.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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Because I doubt that he is going to spend that much time in the pool. The Phelps and Thorpes of world have a true feel of the water. Elite level swimmers spend enough time in water to be classified as a marine mammal.

You can however become much more efficient and balanced in the water with the help of a coach.
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [JayC] [ In reply to ]
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Because I doubt that he is going to spend that much time in the pool. Depends on his desire, I guess. There's no reason he can't, and if he's serious about getting better, he will. He seems serious to me.

The Phelps and Thorpes of world have a true feel of the water. And the Armstrongs and Ulrichs of the world have a true feel for airflow. So what? You don't have to be an elite to have a feel for the water.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [Cousin Elwood] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
First a question on the Rotors. Are you using the 54-42 or the 54-39? I'm using the 54 39, and like the extra low end that gives me. I'm running a 54/39, which I like.

On your swim question, it's all about improving efficiency. If you have the opportunity to do underwater (or "track") video, go for it. I could kill myself. I've had 2 opportuities to get filmed by Strauss and both times I couldn't make it.


I figure at some point I'll have to actually "like" going to swim. Maybe that way I'll be less likely to skip a workout. Right now I can't stand it.
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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I've been running a masters session since February, with a huge technique focus, 2 miles from your front door. I've cut huge time out of many swims. Get your ass out of the rack from time to time.

No, wait...masters ends this month. See you next year, or at least tonight at the brick, given your track record for avoiding the swim :-)

Dick Strauss
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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So what? You don't have to be an elite to have a feel for the water.

No, you have to have a feel of the water to ever be elite.
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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Jaylew,

Coming here might me cheaper than some coaches in the US :-) So I'll make you a proposition. You come here and I'll coach you for free... Uh... did I mention that you need to bring your sister? :-)

-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [smartasscoach] [ In reply to ]
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50+2+3 is always equal to 6 in Z/49Z
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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"I finished 6th of 66"=666



Master likes to help. Just let him. MOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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You are such a proud Math Geek, my modulo-friend-Francois!
Last edited by: Trirunner: Sep 1, 04 11:46
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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Learning to like going to the pool is what did it for me. I found a group of former varsity swimmers who actually seem to take an interest in making me a better swimmer (why, I have no idea), and because of that we have become friends and I enjoy going to the pool to swim with them. As a consequence, I have gone from a 1:55-2:00 race pace swimmer to 1:40 in less than two years (with most of that imprivement in the last year).

I don't do a lot of technique work or drills, but I do think about my form in the water and I have been in the water a lot more in the past year than ever before. Swimming is just like everything else - the more you do it, the better you get at it (yes, I know that technique is perhaps a bigger factor in swimming than it is on land, but mileage is king).

Get in the water more and you will see results.

mp
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [tritoronto] [ In reply to ]
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Where do you swim in the Big Smoke? Does your happy little group have room for one more non-fishy (swimming roughly 1:45-1:50 on 100M).
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [Trirunner] [ In reply to ]
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I take that as a compliment. :-)
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the post race report!
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A Few Thoughts [ In reply to ]
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This is the first triathlon i've gone to, though I didn't compete. If the scenery, as jaylew puts it, is like that at most tris I definitely need to start competing, and often ... and on jaylew's bike, that thing is doing 30mph in the rack.

I've got some more heavily skewed numbers for you than 50 + 2 + 3 = 6. Try 69 + 1 + 1 = 2. How often is it that somebody has the fastest bike split AND fastest run split yet doesn't win? Such that his swim doesn't seem quite as poor, the Big German had the zipper break off his wetsuit just minutes before the race and had to scrap it.

I also have rotors, but in a 53-39-26 (and that 26 is the fork in the road that has made the difference regarding training consistency in the local mountains) on an 11-23. I don't have any races on them, or on my old Ultegra's so I'm no good for comparisons there. After riding them in considerable hills for an average of ~3hrs everyday for a month (the hills being against the advice of the people at RotorC) and then doing a brutal (relatively for me, even though I never took a pull) 118 miler on flats my quads in particular and body in general were finished for about 5-6 days, all of which were spent in Lake Tahoe (6,250ft above my house) where I had hoped to be getting awesome rides in, instead of spinning along HWY 89 wondering if the Big German could ride a sub3hr circuit of the lake in a couple years. Anyway, now that i've had that 5-6 day recovery period I feel very strong, and the past 3 rides i've done in the local mountains is not creating the immediate, though able to be dealt with lingering fatigue in my thighs like I got straight out of the hole about 5-6 weeks ago. In short, with really consistent training I got stronger in a short amount of time ... who'd of guessed!?

All that and nobody even had to ask my opinion.
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Re: When 50+2+3=6, rotors, mini SB Tri race report, swim crap, blah, blah, blah [jaylew] [ In reply to ]
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"I figure at some point I'll have to actually "like" going to swim. Maybe that way I'll be less likely to skip a workout. Right now I can't stand it."

That's exactly the point. You have to work on your technique, get it sort of good, and then swim five days a week for a month. At that point, it should start feeling better and the water should feel like a less foreign place. You should also be grooved, from a scheduling standpoint, so that you just go on swimming.

Swimming is fun when you're good at it. Like most things, it's annoying when you suck. My favorite races were two years back (prior to a crash 'n' burn that broke may collarbone and my stroke hasn't been right since) when I was first out of the water in my AG all year, including beating Tim Lavelle out of T-1 at Santa Cruz. I haven't enjoyed this season as much, because I'm about 2 minutes slower and finishing the swim third through tenth in my AG. Since I don't run well, it's hard to bike hard knowing I'm only going to be slipping back as the race goes on.

You're too good on the bike and run. With a little work on the swim, you'll WIN your AG. And from a training standpoint, you can add 3-5 days a week on top of whatever you're doing to bike and run so well, and it won't result in overtraining, because swimming helps the body recover.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...
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Re: A Few Thoughts [JoeMWiley] [ In reply to ]
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OK Joe, you Rotorized climbing machine ...

Your new mission for 2005: http://www.deathride.com/


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Re: A Few Thoughts [Gary Tingley] [ In reply to ]
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That looks like a nice early birthday present. Well, actually if I time it right and do it in about 48 hours the gift of finishing would coincide with my debut on 7-12 (7-11 sidereal time!) some 25 years ago.
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