I was mighty close to making it out there last weekend, but instead will be doing the SBR Multisports Half this weekend (see Roll Call thread for its problems) and going to Napa the week after Memorial Day. Glad to hear it was well run and that you PRed. Your time rocked with that course!

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Matt

I was planning on doing it, but $200 for a first-year envirosports race was a bit steep for me. As you noticed, they're known for putting on races with less-than-stellar support. they run fun races with great courses, but there's a big difference (for me at least) between $30 for a trail marathon versus $200 for a half ironman.

I had a nice training day instead- Highway 1 from Jenner to Marshall. Beautiful.

J

>>I was planning on doing it, but $200 for a first-year envirosports race was a bit steep for me.<<

Agreed.

Plus, they were competing with UVAS and Bay to Breakers and sandwiched between Wildflower and Auburn. June, September or October would be much better timing.

clm

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I heard the sprint was *very* poorly organized. Everything from the swim to the finish of the run was chaotic and in some places downright dangerous.

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**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

Having done a number of Envirosports races, I can say that none of them were hampered with any truly disorganized features, including 3 Alcatraz tri's...though those were several years ago. I was tempted to do this race but my training is not quite there yet, and as noted $200 does indeed seem steep for a 1st-year race, even by a relatively well-respected RD. Did the Tilden 10-mile (running) race instead.

I would be curious to hear any reports from the sprint race to confirm what you have heard...or at least some more of the specifics so that we don't have a case of "heard from a friend of a friend of an uncle's cousin's half-sister that such-and-such happened..." Horning's been around for a while, and if he deserves some criticism, let's make sure it's warranted.

To the OP of this thread, thanks for posting your report...sounds like a worthwhile race in between everything else going on. Bay to Breakers official registration numbers were in the 40k range, which sounds real low.

They are guestimating b/w 65-70,000 people at Bay to Breakers total. Always a fun day!

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"He broke into the long easy lope, and went on, hour after hour, never at loss for the tangled way, heading straight home through strange country with a certitude of direction that put man and his magnetic needle to shame."

-Call of the Wild

40k official registrants, the rest "unofficial"....IIRC, official registrants have totalled as high as in the 70k+ range not that long ago, with total numbers approaching 100k (though those numbers could have been inflated)...

No matter how you slice it, though, that's a lot of peeps!

I was there to root on my wife who raced the sprint on Saturday and had a ring side seat to the race organization. If you were there, you may have seen me ringing that godforesaken cow bell all day with the super cute yellow lab puppy in tow. His name is Phineus, and he belongs to a girl named Jennifer in Mill Valley who brought him to the race but didn't really have plans for anyone to take care of him. Being a short race and I have a soft spot for labs (two at home myself), I puppysat for the race. He's a total chick magnet too!!!

Race observations: I can't say that it was as tight as many races I've been to but I don't see where the dangerous factor would be applied. It's a low key event the draws people from all walks of life so you have to understand that there are some people in the crowd as well as registered racers that have no clue about race ediquite whatsoever. Yes, there could have been organized waves, but Dave chose to allow you to seed yourself based on your ability. Some people got ahead of themselves and were not where they should have been, but that happens even when you are age grouped at the start.

Transition area was not closed to participants only so a few times I saw some clueless spectators almost get plowed over by a participant. Perhaps this is where you see the downright dangerous aspect of the organization. A few posts with flags between them to keep the spectators out would have been a good idea. I already sent that suggestion to the RD in my thank you note. If you do a race and have fun, let the race director know is my rule (after you thank every volenteer and cop on the course)

There were CHP cars and officers at all of the intersections and they stopped traffic to allow for the bikes every time I was there. Due to the confines of the alloted space there was a period of time where slow bikers and fast runners were on the same stretch of road and that may have caused concern for some.

To say this race competed with Bay to breakers is kind of a joke. If you planned to "race" bay to breakers you were only kidding yourself. It's too much fun to wait and then run for fun past all the freaks, naked people and all. I was bummed I missed the specticle but not so much that it effected my decision to race Napa the same day.

To say it competed with UVAS is to say you care more about USAT rankings or shorter course races than you do about the 1/2 IM distance. That's totally cool if it's your distance or if you feel the need to see your name in lights in the USAT publications. I find neither particulary appealing so I chose to race in Napa that day. With the number of races in Northern CA there is never a weekend between May and October when there are not races competing for participant numbers. For that I'm actually very glad. It would suck to only have one or two choices of races on a given weekend.

The one thing I absolutely hate at races is people who wear iPods or other music devices while running (they were banned on the bike at least). If I ever organize a race, two guys will jump out of the bushes on the run and beat the shit out of anyone wearing headphones and them crush the device with a steam roller while you watch (through your good eye).

Yes, the races ae a bit overpriced, but show me a great deal these days and I'll show you a race direcor that's not making enough to pay his mortgage. Let's all face reality, we enjoy and elite sport that's expensive to participate in. It' like golf, except you don't drink beers and smoke cigars on the bike. After 16 million posts about how outrageously priced Wildflower is and how logistically frustrating it can be, I'd say this race was not bad.

My suggestions: Better food at the finish, post the times sooner, Close off transition area to racers only 30 minutes before the race and improve the quality of the racks (they were kind of rickety PVC supports).

Otherwise, a fun race.

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Ok, fine... here's specific. My wife was there, was pretty spooked by the turn out of T1 where a few wiped on sandy gravel stuff (in addition to all the things Karma mentioned as well).

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**************
Too f@ckin depressed from various injuries to care about having a signature line.

Sponsored by Blue Shield PPO.

One of the gals at the swim squad this morning did the sprint and said it was fun and that's about it.

>>If you planned to "race" bay to breakers you were only kidding yourself.<<

No one "races" B2B. Everyone I know who did it, did it for the party.

>>To say it competed with UVAS is to say you care more about USAT rankings or shorter course races than you do about the 1/2 IM distance.<<

Actually, no. I really like the UVAS race. It's a fun race, they do a good job (with real food at the end).

Most people can't/won't do three 1/2 IM races within 4 weeks, so with the three choices in May in NorCal, I'd personally put an ES race at the bottom of the list.

IMO, what he should have done is to do a sprint and an Oly distance race. I get asked all the time about Oly race options, mostly from new folks who have done a sprint or two and want to try something longer.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Thanks for the words of encouragement (MattFriend05) and the apreciation for my attemp to convey the sights and shounds of the event to others (Mike C.)

My goal in posting my thoughts on the days event were genuinely geared toward letting people know about the event in hope it would garner a bit more interest so they don't cancel it next year.

Unfortunately, some members of our community feel the need to rip into others opinions in an effort to substantiate their own opinions or stroke their ego. No words of encouragement like " wow, sounds like you had a great day getting a PR and with no pain, that's got to feel good". Instead they choose to focus negative energy by pasting sentences out of entire paragraphs, removing all sense of context to make a negative point. So much energy must go into something like that, it's sad really. I'm not going to get into any pissing contest over how the RD could have done this or that better or how others perceive the experience when they were not even there to experience it. I've passed on my observations to the RD personally along with a thank you for holding the event in the first place. I've been to bay to breakers and tons of J&A races so I know what was going on elsewhere last weekend. And, like I said, if that's your ball of wax, great, I hope you enjoyed yourself. When I'm perfect maybe I'll be more inclined to speak more on the topic, until then I'll keep my ego in check and enjoy my racing experience.

Peace, Karma

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Hey Karma:

Thanks for the great race report and congrats on the PR and pain free ( as much as any half IM could be pain FREE). Nice job.

I'm from the school of "...the more the merrier," in terms of race choices. It's good to see Envirosports going after the tri market. The Berryessa/Napa venue was just begging for a triathlon given the popularity of the region for road racing (Pope Valley) and swimming (Berryessa Open Water Masters events). I'll put it on the calendar for next year.

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Mr. Uncaptured External Costs

Fossil carbon is planetary poison.

Lets see. I did the half on Sunday. Did a 5:26 which was a PR which I thought was pretty good for a 48 year old guy until I saw the results.

One guy 45 did around 4:30. And two 47 year old guys did like 5:15.

Darn, 4th place. Now, no one beat me older since thats my first place.

Lets see, what did I think of the event.

Since many complained about the swim, looks like it was short. Great water temp though and no killer rollers!! Start was great in the water, nice and wide.

I had heard of the gal that crashed on her bike in the gravel on Sat so I was very careful on the bike. The road actually had fewer cars than I was expecting. The hills made it a VERY tough course. The one concern is many parts of the road had MAJOR pot holes in them. If anyone had hit them with there bike, they would have been hurt bad. There were no markings about these safety issues. At major cross roads and turns there was no help as to which was the course went. I had to basically stop a few times to see where to go. One one step hill with a major right turn onto the busy road, they had no signs to slow down or anything. So, from all the races I have done, the bike needs lots of work to be safe.

The run on the hills with no shade was tough!!

At the end there was very little to eat, but, for the number of folks, it had all I was looking for.

For some reason the timing chip straps eat into ones leg. I am still all cut up from it. I saw others having to take their chips off since they had the same issue.

So, I guess the bottom line is would I do it next year? I just completed the Wildflower olympic, the Oroville sprint, and the Napa half in 14 days. Doing 3 back to back was not easy. Now, Auburn, which is 10 minutes from my house, is this coming weekend. Since it is so close, I may consider that one next year instead. The roads will be a lot safer. But, the swim is KILLER cold!!!!!

I rode a ways with one guy who has Tony Deboom as his coach. Were a number of folks who had traveled to be at this race.

Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I later forgot to tell you congrats on the PR and was going to edit my original post. But now...

>>My goal in posting my thoughts on the days event were genuinely geared toward letting people know about the event in hope it would garner a bit more interest so they don't cancel it next year.<<

155 total in the 1/2 IM, including relays.

Edit: Another thought that May is perhaps overloaded with HIM races.....in the Napa Sprint race, the day before the HIM, there were 540 people racing. 228 men and 312 women. That's a pretty healthy field. Move the HIM to late in the year and the field would double in size.

I don't think people didn't know about it, but they voted with their attendance (or lack thereof). Most people I know are in one of two camps--love the ES races or hate the ES races, sometimes for the same reasons.

Another HIM is great. I'd add to my race schedule, except for the timing of it. I still say that the timing (two other more established HIMs in the same month) and the fact that it was an unproven first year HIM race by a RD whose triathlon races HAVE IN THE PAST been the cause of consternation by at least part of the field in said triathlons, are the biggest causes of the low turnout.

And you know what they say about opinions....

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

155 total in the 1/2 IM, including relays.

155 x $200 = $31000 in entry fees (give or take based on the number of relays); my gut tells me that most of that will be pure profit, as the venue was already paid for, most of the insurance and other necessities (police, etc.) would have minimal or no additional cost. I could be wrong on that count to some degree, but I think that he (Horning) would likely do the same thing next year with this event as opposed to holding it later in the year simply based on economics.

I can see where he might come across as a no-frills kind of RD, especially based on my experiences with his trail runs. The Alcatraz race is run fairly well---but it has been a few years since I've done of those....my advice to him would be to step up some of the amenities, tighten up some of the loose ends (open transition area, for example). In other words, spend a little bit of money on some things and make out better in the long run---especially if he is going to charge $200 for a Half IM...that's higher than Vineman!

Greetings sports fans, thought I would share the reply I got back from Envirosports when I noted my observations in my thank you message to the RD. (me in black, response in blue)

First let me thank you for taking the gamble and adding this race to the schedule this year. I'm sure it's a huge undertaking that most participants never even consider when they start critiquing a race when it's over. I appreciated everyone's efforts out there in trying to make race day as nice as possible.

I was a bit surprised that the participation was so light, but the weekend also had UVAS and Bay to Breakers to pull people from, not that they were actually "competeing" with you per say as they are quite different is size and distance. I know it's a lot to even suggest, but you might get better attendance if the race were on another weekend. Logistically, I'm sure it's much easier to do two races on one weekend and not have to return to do another one. If people really want to race, they will skip the others anyway.



We will likely be moving these events to the first weekend of May next year and flip-flopping the races so the Half is on Saturday and the Sprint on Sunday. We understand that this will be directly opposite of Wildflower, but we’d like to present ourselves as the alternative to that race. Our Sprint already has a strong following – selling out in mid-January each year. I think the Half might benefit from this positioning.



I also wanted to provide you with a racers interpretation of how you might make the day a little more enjoyable next year. Please don't take this the wrong way, I simply want you to hear some impressions from a participant. This is in no way a soap box or a bashing.



1) Color coding the caps would be nice. That way a person has to decide before the heat of the moment what wave they want to be in. I think too many people self seeded with grander plans than they actually got due to the excitement and caused some log jams in the water.



Next year’s swim will be a single loop. That will avoid the crossover that comes with a double-loop course. We will always favor a self-seeded start as opposed to pre-assigned age-group waves. For our sprint race with 600 participants, we are able to start these self-seeded waves three minutes apart and have minimal crossover. Too many races with age-group starts wait eight or more minutes between each wave – with larger events taking up to two hours to start everyone!



2) Perhaps you could put up some tall cone/posts with plastic flag ropes around the transition area to keep people out. I know you needed to keep a lane for boats, but too many spectators were milling about on the ramp and early in the transition area. Blocking off the sides and announcing regularly to get people out would help.



We plan to move the transition area next year to the area in front of the motel rooms. We use this area for the sprint tri. In addition to keeping spectators out, it will dramatically improve the Half by avoiding the crossovers with the bike/run ins and outs.



3) After an event like a 1/2 IM, one needs a meal. Red vines, trail mix, watered down Gatorade, bananas and cliff bars are fine for a sprint race but I was disappointed that it was all we had after the 1/2 IM distance. A plate of pasta or burrito fixins, maybe a salad or some additional fruits would really be welcome. Check out the bounty at a J&A productions race and you will see the difference I'm talking about. Simply said, for $200 I expected more.



J & A sets a high-standard with their post-race fare. The Chipolte burritos they get are 100% donated, as Chipolte is an event sponsor. I know this because I’ve worked J & A events for years. Of course, Chipolte also has several store locations within a 50 mile radius for that event, so it’s a great marketing vessel for them. At Lake Berryessa, we’re a little hard-pressed to find food sponsors willing to truck their goods out to the venue. That said, we are having conversations about what we can do in the way of providing food next year. Right now, it looks like our best option is underwriting the cost of a BBQ hosted by the resort. It’ll come at a significant cost to us, but we understand that triathletes going the extra distance absolutely need and expect it – as they should.



4) The bike turn around #1 was on a downhill slope. People are usually going pretty fast downhill. Perhaps you could make it on a slight uphill. It came up really fast on me and I had to leave rubber on the asphalt to slow down fast enough to make the very sharp turn.



Excellent note. This is the sort of thing that is bound to surface on raceday when the course is in use for the first time. Sometimes we can anticipate these blips before raceday. For instance, at one point, we had bike turnaround #2 at a different location and on one of our many, many course drive-throughs we realized that it was on a slightly blind incline, so the course was adjusted. Actually, that was the course change that move bike turnaround #1 to its final location. This is something we’ll revisit before next year for sure.



5) The bike course could have used more signage alerting the public to the event in progress. I nearly got creamed by a truck driving down the middle of the road on the short stretch near Rust Ridge Winery (E. Chiles Rd I think it was). There was no sign on the other side at the beginning of the road for oncoming traffic to reduce speed or watch out for bikes. The road was pretty skinny and I was near the edge. If it had been one of the other riders who I passed on that road, riding down the middle like you shouldn't do, we would be mourning the loss of a fellow athlete today.



There was a CHP officer stationed at the intersection of Chiles Pope Valley Rd. and Lower Chiles Valley Road (the intersection after Rust Ridge Winery). In addition to adding signage, the bike course will have course monitors – armed with flags and/or foam fingers (like the kind you see at basketball games) at all turns next year.



6) The intersection at the bottom of the last steep section had a CHP patrol car with an officer inside it, but no volunteer with a flag or anything. It would have been nice to have an extra set of eyes at that corner to help slow traffic down because the corner is almost blind from the resort side.



Totally agreed. I’d also like to add a course monitor further up the hill to advise cyclists to slow down as they approach that turn.



7) The wait for posting of results and awards was a let down. I don't see why you couldn't have posted the results for everyone up to something like 6 hours and then added pages as time permitted. I finished in 5:35 and then was told the posting wouldn't be for another hour and a half. I went to the timing tent, got my time and left. I like to stick around and cheer on my fellow athletes and give the winners the recognition they deserve, but most of them left because the wait for some would have been over two hours. Kind of anti-climactic.



Our timing company, PM Events of Portland, is accustomed to delivering results live. They also time all of the Vineman triathlons.



8) If you take the extra step (and $$ I'm sure) to get the race USAT sanctioned, your participant list will increase for sure. Many of the highly competitive racers want to race when their times and rankings will be impacted on the USAT standings national ranking system.



Here we have a philosophical difference, Dave. We will never sanction our event through USAT. We cater our events to athletes whose focus is coming out and having a good time. We don’t mind if the highly competitive folks opt for a different race on the same weekend. In fact, most of the time those races will better meet their needs. Our priority is to produce a safe, fun and well-organized event for folks who enjoy the sport. We don’t want to have to issue Susie Soccer Mom a drafting penalty at her first triathlon, when we can monitor it ourselves out on the course and simply tell her to stop drafting without ruining her experience.



9) I'm sure next year, if there is a next year, the date will be published earlier. Most competitive triathletes schedule the season in Late December or Early January so you probably lost a lot of draw because race calendars were set and race fees paid when the event was announced.



We announced this event in late-November and had our first four sign-up on Dec. 1st. The only hold-back on announcing it was the different permitting agencies dragging their feet. With this event, we deal with Napa County, CHP and DOI – Bureau of Land Management. We had to get all of them on board for the new event before we could advertise and accept entries.



Once again, thanks for a nice day, I had a PR and was pleased that I finally completed a race without pain in my IT bands (HUGE FOR ME). Tell the volunteers we all appreciate everything they did for us out there.



That’s quite a course to set a PR on, Dave! Congrats! Thanks again for the thoughtfully written feedback. I make a point to save all of our post-event e-mails so we can revisit them as we make plans for next year.

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

Great comments and response.

The only piece I would add is there were some MAJOR pot holes on the course that if you hit it, it would be bad news. Would be nice for Dave to address the safety of the road.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Yes, thanks for posting his responses.

It's great that he wants to cater to the less competitive athlete and but to not have all the amenities and things that go along with that (draft officials, timely results/timing??) but tstill charge $200? That's the rub. The other local HIM races are all between $175-$190 (Half Vineman, Half CaliMan, Big Kahuna, Auburn). Hopefully he won't price himself out a race.

How much was the sprint? TBF races are $40 and On Your Mark races are $45 (but a discount for multi-race entries). They are non-USAT, affordable and both RDs do an excellent job.

clm

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Exactly right Cathy. He can't have it both ways. I did the Napa Oly distance race a few years ago and it was the most disorganized race I have ever done. I would love to have a race in Napa so close to home but can't see paying $200 for a low quality race. I don't mind paying that if it is good quality but it doesn't sound like that is the case. Kind of ironic that a race that bills itself as "Napa Valley" is run so cheaply. The folks in Rutherford must just shudder at the thought...

I had no concern about all the perks, or the price.

But, an event must have safety number one, and to be honest, I saw lots of things missing for that. I still would like to know about the one gal I saw off the side of the road. Many I talked to saw her, but no one saw what happened. My guess is I saw right before I saw her a truck pulling a trailer on this narrow road driving in the middle of the road. My guess is she got directed off the road by this truck. I hope she was not hurt too bad. I still ask did anyone else not see the huge pot holes on the ride?



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I hear what you are saying about safety but I think I have seen or heard of crashes at just about every race I have done. Lots of newbies means lots of crashes.

I ran an aid station at Vineman two years ago and watched a girl doing her first ever tri, crash right in front of my eyes after taking her bottle (her first bottle exchange at the first aid station of her first tri). Poor thing suffered a nasty laceration to her face and a concussion. It was sad to see but (not to start a flame war), there are some triathletes out there with pretty minimal bike skills. Just a matter of time in the saddle really...

Just why haven't there been more races at Berryessa? Permit hassles? No RD in that sub-area of the Bay Area? Curious.

Here is the discussion from January about Bay Area race sites.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ng=berryessa;#296444

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Since I crashed at the half vineman last year on the bike, and still to this day do not know really what happened, I understand anything is possible. But, to have a bike course with MAJOR HUGE pot holes, and NO markings, I do not care how good a biker you are, if you do not know it is coming, you are dead. And to have a major hill take a direct right turn onto a major road again with no markings or people telling us what was coming, oh well, I guess I may put too much energy into safety for the racers. I am still fighting the RD I used to work with to follow the USAT rules for wet suits in the Lake of the Pines race in Auburn. Safety, safety, safety.

Again, as a former RD and a person who does about 15 races a season, I had never seen such a lack of markings for hazards on the bike. And with the speeds on some of the roads, again, I am lucky I got out in one piece.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep