great idea on the wide rim, deep section, narrow hub

We have all intentions to make this a wide rim wheel. I hadn't thought about the narrow hub but I'll consider it.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

Those would certainly get my attention. Sounds like an exciting prospect! Don't forget the little people when you make it big, especially when you start looking for middle-of-the-pack AGers for testers! :-)

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Life IS an endurance sport. Finish Well
www.fwe1.net

Wow, at this price and if the quality and the aero numbers are okay, there is a huge place in the market for this. I am based in Japan and if you are looking for an importer/distributor here, put me on your list!

I'm interested. There's enough of a marketplace for everyone if you have your demographic/consumer narrowed that you want to hit.

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http://www.clperformancetraining.com
http://www.pillasport.ca

Much safer to produce a $5k+ boutique wheel. I would seriously rethink your business plan. You and your brothers are engineers.....dangerous. Before you spend a dime.....find a business/marketing consultant and an accountant to do at least some rudimentary feasibility research.

I’ve got a tiny vibe that you are being sarcastic with this^^^^^^ in case you really are being serious, I could not disagree more. Business and marketing consultants for a new venture are big waste of time and a bigger unnecessary expense. It is pretty obvious to me that Canadian is doing some ‘research’ here on ST with what would be his target audience.

Anyway, the rest of this is for Canadian:

There is a huge market for reasonably priced aero/race wheels. If it were me, I would really pay attention to materials sourcing, quality control, timing production runs and order fulfillment. If there is a demand, which I think there will be, timely order fulfillment is crucial = this is where relationships with retailers are made or broken: If you can’t fulfill the order within a specified timeframe, don’t make the promise. Even very small retailers are getting keen to the nuisance fees charged by the Wal-Marts/Costcos = you don’t want to lose profit because your order fulfillment is fucked up. Also, invoice accuracy is crucial = make sure what is in the box is really what is in the box, and is really what is on the invoice and is precisely what the customer ordered because you don’t want to get killed by returns. I would have a zero-defect mentality where invoice accuracy is concerned. Also, think very carefully about your credit policy: Are you going to offer terms? If so what will they be? Net 30, Net 90……..do you want to wait 30-90 days until you get paid? Which customers would you sell on cash terms and which would you sell on credit terms? Keep in mind that the sale is not complete until the bill is paid.

What I detailed above is called Order To Cash (OTC) and is way more crucial to a successful business enterprise than hiring business/marketing consultants.

Finally, have one very unique feature to your product and one very unique service that you would offer to your customers that would make you different from all of your competitors.

There you go: Business Planning OTC/Credit and Marketing Expertise.

For Free!!

PS: One more thing: Beyond the free set of wheels you owe me for this extremely valuable business planning advice, until you are very well established, do not offer special ‘Bro-Deals’ or ‘Bro-Pricing’ on your product to anyone, not even your own Mother. It’s shit like this that you will ruin the integrity of your brand/business, because it is so hard to keep track of. Remember, you’ll be running a business, not a charity.

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Great idea! I hope this works out four you. I would definitely be interested in a reasonably priced aero wheelset, even if it doesn't come with all the fancy (and over-hyped) marketing gimmicks like golf-ball dimples or ceramic bearings!

so you are convinced narrow is good

yet you want the rim to be wide

hmm

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I have had my eyes on craigslist and ebay for over a year looking for a decent race set I can afford, this sounds amazing. I really hope it works out.

The lightest and most aerodynamic at a great price is good but I would give up some of both of those for wheels that actually withstood being ridden. Not having to constantly mess with spoke tension and truing would sell me.

I'm interested to know your distibution model, as this is what can really kill any great product. If you can sell a wheelset for $500-$600 direct and make a respectable margin then that's great. But what sort of volume do you think you can really achieve only through direct sales? Especially when you're selling a single product with no established brand name?

Now, if you want to go mainstream you'll be looking at putting a distributor and/or retailer into the distribution chain. Each party wants a margin. Part of the reason bike stuff costs what it does is due to the distribution costs. I don't work in the industry, but I would guess a markup of 25% - 40% in each link of the chain is reasonable.

Let's assume your $550 wheelset has a manufacturing cost of $400. Add a 30% manufacturer (you), 30% distributor and 30% retailer margin on to that, and suddenly your $550 wheels are looking closer to $900.

You need to decide which model works for you. Good luck to you.

I wish you well.

I look forward to picking up some of your wheels from the liquidators when it fails.

The market it small, your market share will be a part of that market only. Your suppliers will FK you over, and so will all your other supply chain people.

For that price, I can't believe you could sell a cheeseburger. In my experience, everything costs more than you budget, takes longer than you budget and sells about 1% as well as you budget. Then of course you flood the small market in a few years and go broke anyway. OF course decent R&D costs the national debt of a small country and next thing your wife leaves you, takes the house and kids and you end up driving a 10 year old Corolla and race entry fees mean you can't eat for a week.

There are plenty of race wheels out there. Bargain price wheels mean you have to sell on volume and the volume just aint there.

From what I remember, Specialized came up with the (now) HED3 wheel years ago and convinced the Spanish government to build a factory for them, based on something like 100,000 pairs sold per year! I doubt they sold 100,00 pairs total. HED bought the scraps and now produce them (updated of course) at a reasonable rate, based on realistic numbers per year.

Just my twisted warning of doom. Your mileage may vary. I admire you idea and your hope at least.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Token still sells wheels in my LBS, but I've never been tempted. I have HED3's that suit me just fine thankyou very much.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Our wheels will be made in the good old USA.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

LOL! Your username just seems odd now ... eh? Best of luck!

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Specialized did NOT come up with the wheel - a Thesis paper did. Specialized was using DuPont (after they purchased the rights) to build them at the time and DuPont was part of the original research. They did think they were going to sell more than they did, and then they hit their HUGE hurdle...the cassette! They designed the wheel with a threaded free wheel and had to do some serious changes when the cassette and cogset came to be the norm from Shimano, Suntour, Mavic and Campagnolo. There was also the change in the OD of the freehubs to 130mm from 127 to fit the additional cog...they had a great idea at a bad time.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I love slowtwitch.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

hopefully you have a completely new and different way of solving a bicycle wheel's weight, stiffness, aerodynamics, and cost equation. because lots and lots of very smart folks have approached this product area from many angles, some have succeeded and some have failed. hopefully, you're not underestimating the difficulty of this challenging problem.

but if you really do have a truly novel approach and can actually mass produce high quality, lightweight, stiff, super aero, and durable clincher wheels at the prices you quote, and on top of that build them in the usa, i'd say that you have an enormous winner of a business idea.

if this is for real, when and where can i invest?

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Where would you want to swim ?

Thank you very much for your advice.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

I would have to infer that Mojo was meaning with OEM's when it came to terms. In that case Net30 means 60 and Net90 means 120. Then you have the pre-contract Interbike mess and what that all entails. The OE's will try to murder you on margin - and you think you are going to make the CARBON RIMS in the USA? Are you joking? Build in the USA maybe (by machine that is) but OE a carbon rim in the US? Why would you not want the more skilled and folks who work with it more often in Asia building your rims? Zipp for one makes theirs here - and they pull no punches about the fact they cost more to produce and build (and charge for it as it is worth it). But, a low cost carbon rim from the US? I dont see it....


Check your PM's

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I think you are being unrealistic with that price range and don't take all costs into consideration. And with ALL costs I'm talking ALL costs that you and your business will incur in the process of doing business.

I'm very bearish on the future of the "triathlon economy". If I were to start any type of bike company I'd focus on the mass market and not a niche type product. With credit defaults reaching new heights, who will be your consumer when the target audience is swimming in debt from their high end bike purchases? It would be interesting to see how many people on this board are currently in debt from their tri bike purchases, maybe that could be one of Slowman's next polls.

And if you are looking at producing them in Asia, how will your business do in times of higher interest rates and a depreciating USD. This will not just affect you but anybody that is importing from Asia and greatly squeeze their profit margins. Several companies with market caps of $10B come to mind here...

All that said, I think you definitely will have sales at that price but I doubt it will be enough to offset your costs and make this business venture successful. Just my opinion and I could be totally wrong here but I'd sit down and have a competition with your twin brother of who could come up with the most types of costs that your business will incur. Also, how would you act if one of the big player with manufacturing already in place would create a sub-venture and try to squeeze you out of the business?

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Ok, here is something no one else has mentioned. You will be missing one huge market until you get UCI certified. Pro roadies (and cx riders) can't use wheels deeper than 25mm (IIRC) that the rim hasn't been impact tested. Now everyone on ST will chime in that UCI doesn't matter for Tris. And it doesn't. But it does matter for roadies and bike manufacturers. You will have no luck selling to a manufacturer until you go through this step. No clue on what's involved, but it's something to plan for.

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"Can’t I just start alone? I don’t need a team. All I need is a mechanic and a car!"-Jens Voight http://velonews.competitor.com/...lgem-and-more_108891 "

At those prices, and if decently aero (close to Zipps and Heds, even if not quite on par) and not heavy, then I think there is a big market for this. The not heavy factor is even more important in the "old" cycling markets in Europe (France, Italy, Switzerland, Spain).

You have my full support (I'm also trying to make - part of - my living in the sport we love), and I would love to help you if you're ever looking for an agent/distributor in Europe (based in Switzerland), with ties/network in Australia.

Looking forward to getting updates on your progress. Smart luck to you and your twin brother :-)

Perhaps for your guerrilla marketing idea something like:

"Sure, our rims are 3.2 seconds SLOWER over a 40K TT than the new-fangled ZIPPER brand 828's, which works out to $546.87 less PER SECOND for the guys and gals not at the very top. Would you rather have 'almost as fast' wheelsets that, by the way, look cool on your bike, and still have a fat wallet than a super thin wallet and 3.2 seconds.

Sensible go-fast wheels for sensible wallets.

ZIPPERS 828 = $2300
CANADIANS = $550"